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Carbon Dating Shows Koran May Predate Muhammad
HughPickens.com writes: Brian Booker writes at Digital Journal that carbon dating suggests the Koran, or at least portions of it, may actually be older than the prophet Muhammad himself, a finding that if confirmed could rewrite early Islamic history and shed doubt on the "heavenly" origins of the holy text. Scholars believe that a copy of the Koran held by the Birmingham Library was actually written sometime between 568 AD and 645, while the Prophet Mohammad was believed to have been born in 570 AD and to have died in 632 AD. It should be noted, however, that the dating was only conducted on the parchment, rather than the ink, so it is possible that the Koran was simply written on old paper. Some scholars believe, however, that Muhammad did not receive the Koran from heaven, as he claimed during his lifetime, but instead collected texts and scripts that fit his political agenda. "This gives more ground to what have been peripheral views of the Koran's genesis, like that Muhammad and his early followers used a text that was already in existence and shaped it to fit their own political and theological agenda, rather than Muhammad receiving a revelation from heaven," says Keith Small, from the University of Oxford's Bodleian Library. "'It destabilises, to put it mildly, the idea that we can know anything with certainty about how the Koran emerged," says Historian Tom Holland. "and that in turn has implications for the history of Muhammad and the Companions."
Update: 09/01 17:32 GMT by S : There was a typo in the dates used by the original linked article — in the press release from the University of Birmingham, the date range given for the parchment is between 568 AD and 645 AD, which overlaps more closely with Muhammad's lifetime. The dates and link have been fixed now in the summary. Historians say this new information highlights the uncertainty surrounding the emergence of such religious texts, rather than being a major upheaval.
Ooops.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
... coming up in 5... 4... 3...
Oh well.
Science debunks religion once again.
I am sure that this time those religious folks will come around...
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
"Some scholars believe, however, that Muhammad did not receive the Quran from heaven, as he claimed during his lifetime..."
My brain died a little bit just from reading that.
Me too. I mean how could he claim it after his lifetime?
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
Yeah...it's not just "some scholars". Most sensible people also believe he did not receive it from heaven, but rather he pulled it out of his ass.
From the "religion of peace"?!? Preposterous!
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Next up, Joseph Smith got Mormon tablets from guy named Steve, not actual angel! Film at eleven!!
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
So they set up double-blind studies where half the group is given a placebo prayer and the other half is given a real prayer?
Which is why the Orthodox Christian (e.g. Catholic) Old testament contains more books than the Hebrew Bible.
I thought it was because their signal-to-noise ratio was lower.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I have consumed enough narcotics, including myriad hallucinogens, and probably have done enough to make Keith Richards blush - or at least take notice and nod in approval. Not one single time, not once, have I managed to get a divine message. I've tripped hard enough to where I lived in a cartoon world, peyote is a wonderful drug - don't do it, and nope, not one message from a divine creature.
I have received telepathic thoughts from a cat, however. No, those weren't real either but, for the time, we had own form of communication. Cats don't really like humans much, but I digress.
All these drugs, all that time being "open" to such, and not one single text message from a deity. I've probably consumed enough POUNDS of mushrooms, yes pounds, over the many years to where I should have seen or heard something. I spent almost three weeks talking like Kermit the Frog in a post-trip mental state and still, no Jesus.
I have, finally, managed to stop doing all those drugs. I used to trip while working at times. I've eaten whole sheets of acid over the years. I've had vials of liquid LSD. I've tried all sorts of research chemicals. I've vomited what appeared to have a neon blue aura while on peyote outside of Taos, NM. I've eaten mescaline and DRIVEN around Colorado (a journey that began in Arizona) while happily insisting that the number in the odometer's tens place was my warp speed while my passengers suffered giggle fits. I've had to stop driving because I was laughing so hard that I cried and pulled off because I could no longer see the road. (Don't trip and drive, kids.)
I've done the mystic thing and tried to be one with the universe. I've tried to function, and actually did just fine, among normal people while tripping and waiting for the weekends so that I could consume even more drugs. I've tried all these things, from meditation to trance and done them all while hallucinating my proverbial nuts off. Lo and behold, no deity spoke to me.
I guess my point is, while I do not do drugs any more, if these prophets were taking hallucinogenic drugs that enabled them to communicate with a deity (or believe they were) then, to be honest, I'd like to try those drugs. I mean, yeah, I've done my best to try every single last drug out there that will mess with your head or make you feel good. I've tried more than I should have and somehow remained alive. I've done my part...
Nope... No deity for David. Not even a whisper from an angel. If one spoke then I didn't hear it and it's not for lack of trying.
And before someone pipes up that I was spoken to by managing to survive all of that? Yeah... About that... Lemme just say that gravity is a bitch. If there was a deity protecting me then they blinked a few times. Though, sometimes I tend to think that gravity is not a benevolent force. It's straight up evil. So, if someone has found some of the mushrooms that will enable you to speak with God then, yes, I'll buy as many as you can supply.
As an aside, I like to tell people, when asked, that, "I tried tripping once, for about twenty years. I didn't like it so I stopped." It's kind of interesting how you can manage to become so acclimated to it that you can fit in with the NPCs and function just fine. Once you get past the stage where your head is a bowl of oatmeal it's pretty easy but you can do it while peaking though it is more difficult.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
First real proper reason for using "Anonymous Coward" I've seen on /.
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight