Slashdot Mirror
Congressional Testimony: A Surprising Consensus On Climate
Lasrick writes: Many legislators regularly deny that there is a scientific consensus, or even broad scientific support, for government action to address climate change. Researchers recently assessed the content of congressional testimony related to either global warming or climate change from 1969 to 2007. For each piece of testimony, they recorded several characteristics about how the testimony discussed climate. For instance, noting whether the testimony indicated that global warming or climate change was happening and whether any climate change was attributable (in part) to anthropogenic sources. The results: Testimony to Congress—even under Republican reign—reflects the scientific consensus that humans are changing our planet's climate.
The easiest way to find out if anything is actually true is to check if large companies are mentioning it in their SEC filings (which for global warming they are). Billionaires and other folks who actually matter read those and make decisions on those so you can actually be punished for real if you lie or omit information.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It's easy. Congress, in general, doesn't believe what scientists say; scientists have no credibility among members of Congress. So it doesn't matter if there is a scientific consensus or not.
1) There is no such thing as climate change
2) Climate change exists, but it isn't happening now.
3) The climate is changing, but it isn't being caused by humans
4) The climate is being changed by humans, but we can't (or shouldn't) do anything about it.
5) We could have averted climate change, but it is too late now.
Apparently, we've just passed step 3. With step 4, expect a deluge of reports about how we shouldn't try messing with the climate because we just don't understand it well enough and probably will make things worse, or because any benefits from changes WE make will be lost because THEY following suit (for various values of "they", but most likely China or India) or because the potential loss of revenue to a few entitled mega-corporations is far too important to risk by imposing ecologically-responsible regulations. In short, the arguments will be that since we can't make everything 100% better, why should we make any attempt at all?
Climate change deniers will continue to be wrong until we reach step 5, when they will suddenly - and to all our misfortune - be right. We can only hope that the ecological mess they cause in the name of short-term profits won't be so catastrophic for the rest of us.
Many legislators regularly deny that there is a scientific consensus, or even broad scientific support, for government action to address climate change.
And this:
For instance, we noted whether the testimony indicated that global warming or climate change was happening and whether any climate change was attributable (in part) to anthropogenic sources.
There is an enormous chasm between these two ideas. Yes there is a broad concensus that we are changing the composition of our atmosphere and this should cause the planet to warm to some extent. *Alot* of sceptics agree with this. But there is no consensus on what the level of warming will be nor is there consensus on the idea that the changes are harmful/damaging to our interests or the planet or that an urgent mitigation based policy framework is needed. There is an enormous amount of disagreement here, scientific disagreement, as there should be because honest truth is we do not know what impacts are likely to be and there are plenty of competing points of view, in literature on this.
Climate science discussion is so slippery, constantly confusing, conflating and switching in utterly different subjects of discussion. The most generous critique I can muster is that this is at very best, chronic intellectual sloppiness/laziness. And people wring their hands and lament on the lack of trust....
You've got it exactly backwards. If people with private/corporate power didn't act like selfish dicks a lot of the time, maybe we wouldn't need as much government.
And maybe we wouldn't be wiping out species and ecosystems at 100 to 1000x background extinction rate, and maybe we wouldn't be warming the climate and acidifying the oceans.
If only. I'm an environmentalist because I know more about what's actually going on, from both a physical-scientific and sociological perspective, and it scares the shit out of me.
"Environmentalist" is also the wrong term, because it implies we are only concerned when it is going to affect us.
"Eco-system integrity advocate" would be a better term.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
I I say that even if we had half of the government we have now we'd still have clean water, fresh air, clear skies, safe and nutritious food, and warm houses. How can I say that? Because generally people aren't dicks to their neighbors and tend to care about their children growing up to have children of their own.
What? Seriously, what?
I live in western PA, the land of strip mining, acid rain, and the Smoky City. Much of the countryside around here is still trying to recover from your idiotic companies who "aren't dicks to their neighbors". Guess what: when money is involved, many people are dicks to their neighbors, their workers, and their own children. Not everyone, but many people, And guess what; those people are the ones most likely to rise, scheme, and backstab their way into running large companies or other positions of power.
Things were getting better (not because of the EPA, sadly, but because it was no longer economical for big industry to exploit this land), but now the frackers are destroying the water table that most people outside of cities in this area use for drinking water.
Seriously, how can you look at history and believe that people are not dicks to their neighbors? We're humans. We don't care about far away people, but we HATE our neighbors. Have you read any history at all? We invented government specifically because it was the only way we could advance beyond tribes of 20-ish people trying to kill our neighbors. You think people can live well without government? Prove it; move to someplace with no effective government (Somalia is nice this time of year) and prove to us all how well they all get along.
Exactly. Science is not a democracy. We don't get to vote on the rules of physics, they are what they are even if we agree with them or not.
However we have no way of getting to know those rules except through a social process in which scientists read and argue about each others' research.
Trust me, if the majority of scientists hadn't agreed on Newton's laws of motions you'd never have heard of him. Of course then we wouldn't be having this technology-mediated conversation; we'd probably be throwing rocks at each other instead.
People that believe we should reduce carbon output and also believe that nuclear power will kill us all are rejecting science twice over.
Disproof by counterexample: me. I think we should reduce carbon output and I think nuclear power could be useful, provided that plant developers post a bond to cover the decommissioning costs. I won't bother to address your point about wind power, but I do recommend you take the the drive from Los Angeles to Palm Springs sometime. You might find it enlightening.
A true scientist would admit we know very little about the environment. Anyone that says they've solved the equation is either delusional or trying to sell something. I'm not buying.
And no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Just because scientists don't know *everything* doesn't mean they know *nothing*, or that they don't know enough to have a more informed opinion than a layman.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
GOP Science Bill
Yep, the GOP passed a bill requiring legislation based on science be open and reproducible. The DNC and the president, who promised to veto the bill, said there is no room for open science in legislation.
But, its the GOP that is anti-science....
Whats it called when you refuse to allow science to be reproducible and open. I think that used the be the platform of the Catholic Church back when Galileo was alive. Even the Catholic Church has modernized more than you and the DNC.
Any theory that has no way to falsified is not science. The level conflict of interest is too damn high with climate "scientists". It's nothing but a bunch of collectivists trying to push their top down authoritarian government down everyone's throat - AS ALWAYS - and this is just another means to that end. Don't believe it? Here's a simple litmus test.
1) Does it actually help the problem in a meaningful way, or does it simply grow the top down authoritarian government?
For each proposed "solution", if the answer to the above question is "yes", and it most certainly is so far, what other conclusion can be reached? The goal of AGW "science" is to grow government, period.
And regardless of whether there is a concensus or not, science is not driven by concensus.
The climate and environment in general are a shared resource and nobody wants to be the one to hold back because they'll be the one stuck with the cost while everyone else reaps the benefits.
And unlike at the national level where a central government can FORCE you to pay for it collectively, the environment is a global resource and there is no way to enforce proper sharing of the resource.
If I can't confirm it for myself, it isn't science.
*FACEPALM*
Scientific results exists even if you personally cannot confirm them. The point is that someone can confirm them, and does.
Can you personally confirm that electrons exist? Probably not, because you haven't actually seen one. But there is a great body of evidence that supports the existence of electrons. Therefore, I accept that they exist.
Can you personally confirm that the Pope exists? Probably not, because you haven't actually met him. But there is a great body of evidence that supports the existence of the Pope. Therefore, I accept that he exists.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Of course not, but the consensus is driven by the science. That makes it a useful heuristic.
GOP Science Bill
Yep, the GOP passed a bill requiring legislation based on science be open and reproducible. The DNC and the president, who promised to veto the bill, said there is no room for open science in legislation.
But, its the GOP that is anti-science....
Whats it called when you refuse to allow science to be reproducible and open. I think that used the be the platform of the Catholic Church back when Galileo was alive. Even the Catholic Church has modernized more than you and the DNC.
See you ran into a leftist with a grudge.
I love the way they support inconvenient truths, but go out of their way to bury inconvenient facts.
The cost of mitigating climate change are insignificant next to the costs of ignoring it.
Troll tactic #2: pretend that climate change is some theoretical even that will happen in our future, as opposed to something having drastic costs right now.
Record storms, droughts, floods, forest fires, and heat waves are costing hundreds of billions and tens of thousands of lives right now.
IOW: "we don't really knooooow, so lets not do anything!" Standard climate troll approach, going back decades.
Or maybe note your American Exceptionalist ass uses 30 times the resources of some poor shlub in a developing country. Or that the United States produces a quarter of the world's pollution while having 4% of the worlds population - and that's not including all the coal plants in China producing cheap crap in offshored factories for sale in Wal-Mart.
Oh noes! All those jobs lost in the manufacture of asbestos, lead paint, and DDT! Will no one think of the poor beleaguered capitalist cock!
The reality called 'The united States prior to the EPA' is calling.
It would like you actually learn some history.
We -DIDNT- have clean water.
We -DIDNT- have clean air.
Add in history prior to the FDA and food safety inspections and you also learn that we -DIDNT- have clean/safe food.
80% of the surface waters in the US were unfit for consumption, were polluted from unregulated dumping of manufacturing waste.
It's -WHY- the Clean Water Act happened, and now you take that clean water for granted.
American air quality was then similar to China's problems now.
It's -WHY- the Clean Air Act happened, and now you take the dramatically cleaner air for granted.
People died from contaminated foods regularly.
It's -WHY- they started requiring the food supply chain to be inspected at nearly all stages, and now it's a big deal if someone gets sickened by an E Coli outbreak, yet the actual toll is usually minor, a handful of people, a tiny tiny fraction of what it was like prior to those evil regulations putting a stop to what used to be a common occurrence.
Your magical thinking that it all sorts itself out is blatantly ignorant of reality and our own nation's history.
You are a fool.
(also you apparently are ignorant of the definition of 'communist')
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
So you prefer an EPA that is unrestricted and does not have to prove anything. Like we have right now? Secret Science? That's sad.
"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything."