Slashdot Mirror
$415 Million Settlement Approved In Tech Worker Anti-Poaching Case
An anonymous reader writes: Adobe, Apple, Google, and Intel have been embroiled in a high-profile court case accusing them of creating anti-poaching agreements in an attempt to keep tech industry salaries under control. Now, Judge Lucy Koh has ruled that the $415 million settlement against the tech giants is fair, and will stand. Koh also cut in half the amount awarded to the attorneys in the case. The lawsuit was a class-action originally joined by about 64,000 workers. Other companies were involved with the case, and reached settlements earlier, and a few members of the class action may opt out of any settlement. But the remaining members will only get something in the vicinity of $6,000 apiece for the damage done to their earnings.
In America, anti-competitive practices between corporations are illegal. It doesn't matter if they are bidding on the same job and agree to "not compete on this one", bidding on the same employees, or simply saying "don't contact my {insert [vendor / employee / distribution] channels} and I won't contact yours."
Yes, corps can do it and get away with it every day! But if caught they might land themselves a nice fine (see above), or even worse, some time in jail. The corps have quashed the second option for just about any crime they commit, so you are stuck with the first option.
One has got to imagine though, between these practices, H1Bs, 80 hour work weeks, and other wage-lowering standards in the tech field, how many Billions these corps have saved, reinvested, and reaped as untold wealth, while only having their feet held to the fire for about 100m each in this case. They are sure to invent some fascinating practices to hold wages down further in the coming years.
Enjoy your hot soup. cause that's all they serve. on the soup line.
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
What, 8%? Rough day in court for them. Only $31 Million - and, that includes their photocopying costs.
Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
"Only $6000" Maybe this is because I'm not an Apple/Google/Intel employee, but if I got $6k handed to me, I'd be psyched.
Would you be psyched if that's the settlement you received because your employer negotiated behind your back to keep a competitor from offering you a job that pays $20k more a year?
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
From the article in the 2nd link:
Attorneys representing the plaintiffs had requested around $81 million in fees. But Koh nixed that amount, saying it would be a "windfall" for the lawyers and instead awarded them $40 million.
Way to go judge!
On the other hand, even $40M is probably too high for the amount of work done and risk taken.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Exactly. The settlement is peanuts. It should be three times as high, along with substantial punitive damages.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"Only $6000"
Maybe this is because I'm not an Apple/Google/Intel employee, but if I got $6k handed to me, I'd be psyched.
You need to take stock of your life if $6k is considered a financial windfall. This is basically a single paycheck to many of the professionals being affected by these illegal practices. They have likely missed out on tens of thousands of dollars in wages and are being given a big F-U by the government as well as the companies that conspired against them.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Make the settlement $100k for each victim, and maybe $2 million for the lawyers.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
For most companies, your annual salary increases are considered in percentage terms from your current salary.
Let's say the anti-poaching arrangement drove the market down so that an employee who could have made $100k/year in on open market instead took a job for $95k (by the way, this is likely a SEVERE underestimate of the market distortion of ~six of the largest market participants refusing to bid on each other's employees).
That's not a one-time $5k loss. That's a $5k loss every year for life, because it decreases the base on which future raises will be given. More than that, actually.
Assuming you're worth a 5% raise every year, the "open market" employee makes:
$100,000
$105,000
$110,250
$115,762.50
$121,550.63
--------
$552,563.13 over 5 years
With the "$5k" loss, the employee instead gets:
$95,000
$99,750
$104,737.50
$109,974.38
$115,473.09
----
$524,934.97 over 5 years
Which is a loss of $27,629.
The settlement doesn't fix the "perpetual" nature of this problem - it doesn't increase the base salary to what it would have been. It's a one time payout. Even if $6k is a fair estimate on the amount lost in base salary AT THE TIME they took the job, it's a pittance on the real loss.
Even changing jobs doesn't necessarily "restore" this lost base salary - quite a lot of employers ask for a salary history, and will base an offer on what you made previously. Or, they'll base it on the "average" they pay for that job today (which itself will be artificially suppressed because of the past collusion).
This is a HUGE giveaway to the employers involved. They saved many times over what they're paying out here. If they could do the same thing tomorrow anticipating this penalty, they would.
What you describe is like what I've seen on industrial waste disposal fines - a big pharmaceutical concern in my area (who shall remain nameless here of course) I KNOW OF wantonly spew nasty chemicals into a nearby water source (a stream): They go to a nearby "how do I clean it up" firm who does a BIG WRITEUP for the courts on how they "WILL DO IT THAT WAY" but they never do, they pay the fine & just KEEP ON DUMPING!
Why?
* It's CHEAPER TO PAY THE FINES than to actually dispose of it properly is why!
This goes on endlessly - there is NO JUSTICE, plenty of "law" though..."LAW" written by the wealthy, FOR THE WEALTHY!
APK
P.S.=> The wealthy 1% - Who, face it, control societies & always have & will THRU the "Holy Dollar" by paying out peanuts which you allude to since to make money, you HAVE to spend it) & write laws in their favor after all the "lobbyists" (bribers) go thru their motions buying off anyone & everyone in their way!
(God help you IF you attempt to 'chop down their money tree' with a BETTER product or way of doing things too! Smear campaigns GALORE result then, lol!)
Hey... who cares if you're poisoning the air & water! THE BONUSES MUST BE MADE in a world of greed largely due to over-indebtedness those @ the top bury themselves in & yes, even THEY do that, causing their greed...
See - Imo, most folks think that type has "all the money in the world", & spend their own - they do not! Instead, they take out loans based on equities in that money + other collateral (provided they're not "upside-down" still on it owing more than the principal) & they go bad? They bankrupt & bury it after hiding monies in offshore accounts + asset transfers WAY in advance!
(... + they have to PAY MASSIVE BRIBES to the politicians too - that "big money"? It's not as BIG as you'd think - hence, the 'greed' games)... apk
Just to be clear, you're proposing a nearly $6 billion raise to the settlement payout offset by a $.038b reduction in payment to the lawyers.
Regardless if the proposed settlement amount is fair, the lawyer payment reduction basically would have no effect.
-=Lothsahn=-
Yes, I want a pony, too!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
And this we agree on.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Make the settlement $100k for each victim, and maybe $2 million for the lawyers.
Well now. That's practically un-American suggesting such a thing. Our legal system would collapse if lawyers had to starve like that.
Regardless if the proposed settlement amount is fair, the lawyer payment reduction basically would have no effect.
I think the effect would be to make the parent feel better because he does not care much for lawyers.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
No, shut down the businesses involved, sell off their assets to the highest bidders, and jail all high-level management for at least a decade.
Those rich fucks are huge flight risks and people within the companies will be scrambling to shred and burn evidence and cover up hidden assets, so time your sentencing announcement with the arrival time of a tank battalion at their offices.
I make $10,000, after taxes, and I live in Wisconsin.
If you are making less than $72,000 a year as an engineer (i.e. $6K/month), and you've been in the field at least 5 years, you're getting ripped off.
They have created the fairy tale of the STEM shortage. In a few years, kids will be coming out of school with their STEM degree and there will be few jobs that pay shit.
It happened with nurses. Years ago, kids wanted a guaranteed job and flocked into nursing schools because of the so called shortage. Today, we have the worst job market for nurses EVER.
Tech companies are all bullshitters when it comes to their employment practices and all of them are guilty and should be fined.
Not only is this a slap on the wrist, it's actually encouragement for continuing the practice. A company can pay $5000/employee to save many times that amount. The ROI on this practice must have the CFOs drooling.
Also, I wonder if the $41 million not going to the lawyers ends up with the plaintiffs or the companies.
Of course, this entire decision is a laughable farce. The judge considered $4000/person unfair but $5000/person fair. I never went to law school, but that type of judgment is baffling to me.
So, to sum up, legally the companies lost, the lawyers won/lost, and the plaintiffs won, but in the real world, the companies won, the lawyers won, and the plaintiffs lost.
This actually depends on how often they get paid. Based on $6000 (gross):
Basically, If they're getting paid monthly, like government people, or bi-weekly like most companies, it's not impossible for them to have a salary of $6k per pay period.
Also.... the class that damages are awarded to should include All workers of a similar calibre in the industry: not just those that the anti-poaching applied to.
Due to the economics involved. IF such and such position was poached, then I could have applied to it, Or the economic effects across the country might be such that my salary at another company would be higher than it was.
And if you don't know anyone that'd be happy to get $6k, you need to step out of your tech bubble and meet somebody at the median level of income.
It's not for life - it's just until your next job change and ability to negotiate. I've almost never had a meaningful raise working at the same company (after my first year, and once in the 20 years following). IME, you get meaningful raises when someone really needs what you already know.
There's a trap there though - it's important to alternate between jobs that pay a lot better for your current skills, and jobs that force you to learn more modern, in-demand skills. Otherwise you'll suddenly find yourself laid off and unemployable when your niche gets too small.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Who are these people making 6000$ every paycheck? What city? Doing what? For who? Where?
They are mostly engineers and programmers in Silicon Valley. I live in San Jose. $6000 every two weeks is about $150k annually, which is a pretty normal salary here.
I keep hearing about these mythical salaries, but I've never had one like that, and no one I know has either.
Get on the bus gus. Tech unemployment in the Valley is less than 3%. Everyone is hiring. If you are good, you can make good money here. But even on $150k, you may struggle to find an affordable place to live. When I first moved here, I lived out of my van for the first few years, and took showers at the gym.
... we can assume that the company's ill-gotten gains are at least in the five billion range.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Yep, Sergei and Larry have learned that being evil can fatten their billions oh so sweetly. The fine is only a light tax on the takings.
But, hey! It was cool slogan when they were just breaking into the market.
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
Just get them to employ fair employment practices and no one has to get hurt here.
When tank battalions start rolling, *everyone* gets fucked. Let's not call for that. Thanks.
Look up the case and see if you are a member of the Class. Actually, you will probably be contacted if you are a member of the Class and given the option to accept the settlement and extinguish your right to sue yourself, or you can refuse the settlement and keep your right to sue independently. So make sure Intel knows where to find you.
If it is as much as $6k, I'd join the class unless you have the savings to hire a high powered legal team. The Intel corporate lawyers will own you otherwise.
Bullshit. If you were a Republican, by definition you would be shitty at any tech job because you're illogical and stupid. That proves you a liar. A liar. You Republicans lie constantly. You hate the truth. Hate it. You are not paid well, and you know damn well you are not. Republicans are stupid so they end-up in very high positions in corporations. They get promoted for being stupid. Your kind rules us because you are stupid.
The only ones who get fucked are the ones the tanks roll toward.
Fact: Every major conflict in human history has been solved through violence.
You have to petition while the case is in court. In order to get paid you must show you have been damaged, which is what the lawyers did. The usually send out mail and tv and radio ads to try to reach people but not everyone can be found or chooses to participate.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
You sound pretty stupid and have apparently never heard of the smell test.
Tell me does your idea that our salaries would be e.g. $30k higher now if only these companies had actively poached back then pass the smell test? No. It does not.
Ahh, yes, the smell test, that bastion of truth. Why don't we use the smell test to settle arguments more often? Well, proponents of this technique implicitly mean only their noses are accurate.
Well, my inaccurate nose says that contrary to your wishes, the ghosts of Adam Smith and his pesky supply and demand ideas resulted in lost wages for the affected plaintiffs. That Jobs et al. may have actually cared more about avoiding turnover in their organizations and about the thrill of pulling marionette strings doesn't diminish the economic losses of the plaintiffs.
Of course, there is also the pesky inconvenience of trial testimony (e.g., the story of Mr. Hullot's team that never was and whose potential members suffered measurable economic damages), but certainly noses trump trial testimony.
Fact: Every major conflict in human history has been solved through violence.
Well then, how about :
- The Cold War
- South African Apartheid
- The British occupation of India
I have been telling people this for years on here.
I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
For software engineers heading large projects, it could have been far higher than $30k per year.
But lets go ahead and say it was just a $5k per year difference. Notice the emphasis? This wasn't something that Apple and Google tried for a fiscal year, this went on for some time. Which means a $5k payout isn't close to being compensatory, much less punitive.
The Soviet Union fell after being drawn into the violent quagmire of Afghanistan. The United States would be in the same position, if it actually gave a fuck to it's stated goals of making a stable government and protecting human rights, rather than just protecting access to natural resources.
Only ended with the threat of violence. Brutal colonialist occupiers DGAF about your non-violent protests - just ask the Israelis who bomb Gaza when the Palestinians have become too non-violent, as they did with Operation Cast Lead, when even the IDF admits that Hamas had been observing a truce.
Gandhi's protests were a demonstration of power, not acquiescence. GTFO or hordes of my people will overwhelm and massacre your occupying asses. And everyone knows that Nelson Mandela was called a terrorist by the CIA, for decades - because he dared use violence to fight his people's oppressors. Which is why the white South African government backed down, to avoid the inevitable regional and civil war.
With class action lawsuits, the lawyers bear all of the costs and all of the risks if the lawsuit fails. Yes, $5k for each worker is a pittance based on what the companies kept from their paychecks, but they got something for nothing.
Don't like it - higher your own damn lawyer, and shoulder your own damn risk. Which in a case like this would involve tens of thousands in legal fees, and if you won your payout would come out of AppFaGoogle's penny jar without them even noticing.
$400 million is a joke, but at least the companies involved noticed, and might not doing it again. You as an individual win $40k plus attorneys fees, they would never notice.
By definition it depressed the labor pool. What does depressing a labor pool do, whether it's noncompete clauses or trucking in H1-B workers? It depresses prevailing wages, by design. /remedialeconomics
Let me guess...you're also one of those people who dismiss the student loan burdens of today's graduates, because you got your degree back in '95 while working part time at Home Depot?