Slashdot Mirror
White House Petition To Let Foreign STEM Grads Work Longer In US Hits 100K Signatures
theodp writes: Computerworld reports that a petition urging the White House to act urgently on a court ruling that could force thousands of recent foreign STEM graduates working in the U.S. on OPT STEM extensions to leave the States early next year reached 100,000 signatures Tuesday, the threshold for an official government response. It could present a political conundrum of sorts for the Obama administration. Because the administration didn't act to protect U.S. workers at Southern California Edison and Disney, explained an attorney in the case, "now that foreign workers will be losing their jobs, how would it look if Obama went into overdrive to protect their jobs?" By the way, using a map to gauge whether support for the petition comes from all over the country (as the White House suggests), indicates that support for the OPT STEM Extension petition is largely concentrated in tech hotspots and universities, including off-the-beaten-path college towns that host large international student populations.
is what it is.
Since it achieves goals for their $upporters.
I would guess that large portion (most?) of those signing the petition are, in fact, the same STEM students. No one checks your citizenship (or identity) when signing those things. I expect this to be mostly self-serving.
Note: I have no opinion on the actual issue (I am a non-native-born US citizen fwiw)
100,000 HR employees petition government to help flood the workforce with desperate skilled labor willing to work for minimal survival wages.
What sense does it make to come to the US and get a STEM degree if you're just going to get booted out afterwards?
So, how many of the signers are US Citizens?
If you look at the responses on Whitehouse.gov then you villl see that the responses are all pretty lame and meaningless. This is when they even choose to respond. Many times they simply say they wont bother responding. The petitions simply get a response that you would expect when calling a call center in India for customer service. Nothing ever changes or happens from a petition.
Doctors do Massage in Longview WA now, who knew?
Who the hell would select a map view that pushes the coasts to the edges, makes the mostly empty-of-data-points great plains the biggest US section, and gives us a full frontal close-up of zero-data-point Mexico?
First, this isn't the same as the H-1B issue. This would actually be a better solution if we were facing a shortage of skilled workers, because more trained entry level sorts would directly address that. The problem is, the tech moguls pushing for H-1Bs don't really care about that, they just want cheaper workers. The fact that most H-1Bs are used not to bring in highly paid experts in their field, but instead to bring in contract workers for IT sweatshops, should tell you something. That, and the fact that H-1Bs are largely stuck in their one job, are part of why this solution will likely not have any tech moguls or the like pushing for it.
I do find it disingenuous that the lawyer quoted conflates the two though. Entry level types who happen to be foreign graduates of a US university aren't going to be competing for any jobs that aren't already at risk of being given to any US-born graduates (which is a problem in Tech, but is a rather different one). That said, the Obama administration (and politicians in general) ought to be doing a lot more to crack down on the H-1B fuckery, just in general, nevermind in relation to a broader immigration overhaul.
It could present a political conundrum of sorts for the Obama administration.
How naive... they will respond as they always do with almost all these petitions - with a generic form letter statement that will provide vague reassurances that they are "looking into the issue", give no concrete plan for addressing the core demands while mostly evading the question. Anybody who thinks these petitions are worth the paper they are signed on and that the White House actually pays attention to them is deluded.
...what he thinks of this. Better have his people brief him on what STEM stands for beforehand though. Don't want to be accused of asking "gotcha" questions...
If they reduce the number of H-1s, and keep the people here who were educated here, it seems like a reasonable solution.
There's a risk that universities would open to merely subvert the immigration process, so safeguards against that should be taken. Also, why limit it to just STEM? If we train a great philosopher, America will be improved if that philosopher chooses to stay here.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Keep thinking your jobs are lost due to H1Bs, or due to Indians being hired overseas when the company opens a branch there. You are just blind, your jobs are lost at a much higher level because American management nowadays hires foreign contractors, but this is invisible to you. Thus, you can't complain about what you can't see.
Contractors are the easiest way to outsource, because a cheaper price is offered over a proven track record. It's as simple as that.
I run a company overseas that gets contract work from American companies, which recently fired 1000 American employees because they would rather outsource the job to many overseas companies like mine (which are not even in India). Simple Facts:
-American workers are simply too expensive compared with the rest of the world.
-American education is simply too expensive compared with the rest of the world
-America used to lead in science in technology, but the rest of the world catches up quickly
And you know what is worse? Most other developed countries (Canada, Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, etc) have a totally opposite immigration policy, which encourages skilled workers to migrate and help their industries grow in exchange for a better quality of life. This in turn takes away more American jobs because of competition, as those countries are less expensive and/or subsidized.
The best you can do is to understand and accept this in the first place. You country still has an excellent quality of life, and your jobs being lost to other qualified people is not something you can avoid. Change your immigration policy so skilled workers go to the US instead, and give them more rights so employers can't abuse the H1B restrictions to make them work like cheap cattle, so at least you are not at a cost disadvantage in the playing field. You have to wake up before it's too late!
that some of the less educated of the 94 million adults not working can get jobs.
Knowing that he will be the least popular x president as far as speaking contracts, that leaves him a number of low paying gigs to speak at NAACP dinners.
Obama is taking money from anywhere he can get it for the next year and a half.
I have no faith in these petitions after that travesty.
As long as skilled American workers can't find work. Send 'em all home.
... but you know what? As an American worker I think we should be doing what every other country in the world does... citizen's first. You have your sheep skin - now head back home.
I was not in favor of NAFTA - which decimated US manufacturing.
I was not in favor of shipping all of our electronics manufacturing overseas.
I'm not in favor of US based companies (Adobe, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc. ad nausium) sending their engineering and development work overseas (no wonder their software has become so lousy)
I'm not in favor of the Trans-Pacific agreement.
Going along with that.. I'm not in favor of narrow-minded unions (K-12 teachers and 'tenure', requiring an IBEW brother to plug a PC into a power strip at a convention, rubber rooms, and other hyper-wasteful labor tactics). And our stupid politicians that didn't have the sense to look up and understand what tenure was originally meant for, agreeing to pension increases over pay increases, etc.
We have the management/labor environment we have (with both sides playing tragedy of the commons) because only 35% of us go and actually vote.
Saw a great bumper sticker... If the 99% would go vote the 1% wouldn't matter.
FredInIT
What if these foreign STEM workers are somehow keeping women out of STEM? I forget which direction the progressive stack falls.
Paid jobs my ass. They want to keep their slave labor.
I am not an American, but got a PhD in EECS from US. I was on OPT for a few months, but left to take a job in Switzerland. Life in US is so bad, even if you extend the OPT to 3 years, it won't solve your serious problems such as lack of decent life, no social security, health insurance, etc, etc. It is just cars, and motorways and gas stations, and McDonalds everywhere. You've got the best nature, but that's about all you have. I couldn't wait to finish, and get back. I concede that you generate the best science, but sure as shit you live awfully. So after I got the education, US wasn't interesting anymore.
Why don't we reduce the number of foreign students attending our Universities and make room for, you know, Americans? I believe that a good part of the reason that so many foreign students are admitted is the huge premium on tuition that the school collects. Foreign students pay WAY more in tuition than American students do so the schools have a vested interest in having as many foreign students as possible.
Classroom seats, like so many other things in life, is a zero sum game. For every foreign student admitted there is one American student that misses the cut. Why not take care of American students first and then, if there are any seats left, admit foreign students? Would this not address the supposed shortage of skilled STEM workers that business is always whining about?
The 99% generation whines about debt as if we should care that they made some very, very, very poor decisions. They want to roll out the guillotine; really stick it to the rich; they want theirs.
Of course, they are completely ignorant that they are the rich.
It's cool when they're defecating on cop cars, yeah, but give the actual poor of the world a fighting chance and they lose their shit. Because it isn't about the rich. It's about getting all you can carry with the least amount of effort involved.
Which explains why so many Slashbitches are actually terrified of losing their jerbs to an H1B. Because they don't know their asses from an array, and aren't worth $20k a year, let alone $120k.
Seriously, the real problem is not that immigrants are here. The REAL problem is that [HL]1Bs are used to tie the worker to the company and most importantly, to a much lower wage. So, what is needed, is to remove that, and allow ppl to come here on green card instead. In addition, it should be ONLY for the top ppl, not just any STEM. By going with the top, that means that they have top grades and are paid more than the average. Anything else, is just a waste.
Windbourne.
In other news, that petition that serves the interests of 700 workers and their 89 bosses was signed by 789 people. Go figure.
It would EASILY get vastly more signatures than however many signatures this initiative gets. If they want to see who screams louder, I say bring it on. Allow the voices of the opposition to be heard.
So who gives a fuck about this petition? Why can't the American people VOTE on whether they want them to say?
Why can't white people have their own countries any more?
Any answers?
Why do all the other races get to keep their countries, but white people have to accept the dross of the third world, because the TV said so...
obama dont give a shit.. midterms were last year and he himself ain't running again.... a politician on the last legs of his term/reign is called a 'lame duck'... has it ever been more fitting of a term?
You are understand the false idea that H1-bs are above average.
I found them to be no better than anyone else and many of them got through school by cheating.
Yeah, life is ugly on my 10 acre hobby farm, though my horse doesn't complain. Glad I don't have howling migrants lusting for it. You should have traveled further than Silicon Valley.
Is everyone who signed this petition a US citizen? Or is this open to any nationality? How is this verified?
It doesn't make sense for any petition to be considered by the White House unless only US citizens are signatories.
I've been in IT for over twenty years. I have never, ever, felt there was a general consensus in favor of the aptitude, creativity, productivity, quality of workmanship from H1-B workers, F1 Visa interns, or in general 'Indian or Chinese' workers. For the SJWs, there are some really good ones, nothing is 100%. But, there's not that many to warrunt a perceivable pattern of excellence. If they were so good, or even as good as Americans, then why don't they create their own globally influential Apple/Microsoft or IBM? They seem only good enough to do what they're told, what buttons to press at the factories, to complete complex actions without a cognitive understanding of why.
Every individual I had met who had "outsourced" software development, only did so becuase they didn't have enough money for the real programmers; like people who buy fake Rolexes, they do so for the necessity of image while attending high-brow meetings, yet can't actually fit the bill. The moment they became somewhat successful, the first to go was the outsourced contracts; but it is an uphill battle, it's difficult to become successful with sub-par production quality. Then if the company becomes public and has to start answering to shareholders, they return back to the sub-par quality of H1-Bs for the sake of reduced labor costs, because competent programmers, architects and designers are expensive. This is practical, becuase they don't need the expertise to build the infrastracture and their development cycle shifts into more of a maintenance mode; with small feature additions/enhancements being more manageable given all the rest of it.
So, I have never met a true-blue American IT professional, face-to-face, proclaim admiration of foreign IT workers coming into the American workplace. Maybe, an "American"-in-double-quotes, a foreign national who became naturalized who strives for more of his own people in the workplace might have signed this petition, but not a real American. And, certainly not the one forced to train the foreigner to be laid off afterwards; such as has happened at Disney, which is why I refuse to purchase any more Disney products/theme park tickets/even Pixar films.
Becuase of this, I seriously doubt that 100,000 American IT professionals signed this petition.
Of course they would want to extend this illegal H1-B loophole. This way they don't even need to apply and get in the line for the H1-B, they can just bypass it easily by just getting a student visa and working at the full time American jobs.
This drives wages to an all time low and makes it even harder to recruit more kids into these fields, because they already know that they will be low balled by someone with zero economic connection to this country.
Work longer? 80 - 90 hours a week isn't enough?
Send them the HELL home! There are enough foreigners taking American jobs! Ask the American IT workers at Disney how it's working out for them being FORCED to train their Foreign Indian replacements and then told "see ya loser!" by Disney! While we are at it - F* Disney too!
The Truth is a Virus!!!
Given the abuse of every guest worker program, those are 100000+ individuals that oppose the millions of citizens passed up for work - for being a US citizen!
At best, every body shop staffing firm is having their workers stuff the ballot.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
They're not helping US citizens, as their primary attraction is their pliancy - something desired by business but not possessed by citizens.
They largely don't become citizens, nor do they assimilate - they hire only their own.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Compared to restricted guest workers, citizens would provide a greater value in those same roles. This would be accomplished with more tax revenue, higher domestic GDP (no remittances to siphon off), and higher labor participation rates - all possible with just US citizens.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
they hire only their own
You don't find it a bit odd when you complain foreign workers only hire their own while arguing that we shouldn't hire foreign workers?
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Please Please spare your few minutes to support following petition
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/allow-filing-i-765-ead-and-i-131-ap-upon-i-140-approval-4
This will take only few seconds; but believe me, you will make a big impact on lives of families waiting infinitely with an approved I140