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Elon Musk's Latest Idea: Let's Nuke Mars

KindMind writes: The Register reports that Elon Musk, in an appearance on the The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, said that to begin with, human residents on the red planet would need to live in "transparent domes." Before a move to more hospitable habitats, one needs only "to warm it up" and Musk thinks there's a fast way and a slow way to do that. The fast way "is drop thermonuclear weapons over the poles" and the slow way "is to release greenhouse gases, like we are doing on Earth."

157 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. Start the machine Elon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Get your ass to Mars! No, seriously go there, and stay there.

    1. Re:Start the machine Elon by Barsteward · · Score: 2

      i think it's the best place for Anonymous Cowards because they won't be missed, they could press the button when they get there

      --
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    2. Re:Start the machine Elon by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      If you take a piss on Mars, it will rapidly become frosty.

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    3. Re:Start the machine Elon by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      i'm all for nuking mars.

      wasn't aware there might be an upside until now, but really, who doesn't think nuking mars is an awesome idea?

    4. Re:Start the machine Elon by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      i'm all for nuking mars.

      wasn't aware there might be an upside until now, but really, who doesn't think nuking mars is an awesome idea?

      Might warm it up or cause nuclear winter on what is already a ball of frozen rock.

      --
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    5. Re: Start the machine Elon by billdale · · Score: 1

      You Musk bashers are pitiful dingbats. With thousands of billionaires around with no interest in anything but adding zeroes to the end of their net worth, we're lucky to have Elon and a few precious others that are actually doing something worthwhile with their cash. I could care less about his aspirations to go to Mars, but Tesla and Solar City are both very much in the interests of consumers, especially Americans intent on cutting their dependence on foreign oil, and the terrorism and support for despotic regimes that oil money provides. Without Elon Musk, we would still be decades away from hitting the tipping point for EVs. We NEED to wean ourselves off of gasoline before we end up with something a thousand times worse than the 9/11 attacks.

    6. Re:Start the machine Elon by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      Cheap space suits and thin domes..

      --
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  2. It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by netsavior · · Score: 5, Funny

    I am so tired of those commie bastards. the entire planet is RED and is deserving of our nuclear wrath

    1. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by Faust6 · · Score: 1

      It's the only way to be sure.

    2. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 5, Informative

      Red used to go to the incumbent, blue to the challenger. Then the media started "swapping" it every election - one election the Dems would be red, the next the GOP would be red. But since 2000, the media has essentially decided that red would be the color of the GOP. The GOP didn't claim it - the media simply assigned it (probably to help break potential references to Democrats as socialists/communists).

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    3. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Don't drag Bono into this.

    4. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The color red was assigned to the GOP by someone who hated them, in fact. They wanted to mark the GOP as "the enemy" so they made GOP-leaning states red and "friendly" Democrat-leaning states blue. (As anyone know knows military terminology knows, blue forces are friendly forces and red forces are the enemy.) I'm not going to bother sourcing that fact, though, so it could be wrong.

      But the reason it stuck is simple: people kept on bitching about how Gore "should have" won the election, despite the fact that anyone who looked at a map could clearly see that there were more "red states" than there were "blue states." And once the idea of a "red state" versus a "blue state" became an established meme, the colors were kind of stuck. So now we have "red states" and "blue states" even though, as anyone know knows political symbolism knows, that means the colors are now "reversed."

    5. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by jbengt · · Score: 1

      It actually goes back a few elections before that, to late 80s or early 90s.

    6. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by jbengt · · Score: 1

      people kept on bitching about how Gore "should have" won the election, despite the fact that anyone who looked at a map could clearly see that there were more "red states" than there were "blue states."

      And if you adjusted the sizes of the states in the map to be proportional to population or electoral college votes, you could get a much more clear picture of the election results.

    7. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The use of red as an identifying color by Republicans is an ironic reference to arbitrary media manipulation of party color assignments in line with political correctness. In TV election coverage, it was once conventional to use blue for Republican and red for Democrat. Then they began switching colors in alternate elections for "fairness", and that's when the Republicans decided to adopt red as their color.

    8. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Yes. It started back 1976 with Ford and Carter, and continued on. It used to be incumbent/challenger, then alternated. It's only been "stuck" for the last 3 elections - and I suspect it's because of political motivations.

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    9. Re:It is about time we nuke that smug red planet by firewrought · · Score: 1

      The color red was assigned to the GOP by someone who hated them,

      The media alternated color assignment between parties up thru the 2000 election. No hate involved, just pandering use of our national colors.

      the reason it stuck is simple: people kept on bitching about how Gore "should have" won the election

      Your tone is caustic, but you're essentially correct: the long,drawn-out contested election of 2000 got folks to start identifying themselves in red state/blue state terminology. After a month+ media circus, the association was bound to stick no matter who won that extremely tight and controversial election.

      In typical American fashion, our colors got stuck backwards from how most other western democracies use them (with red typically being the color of liberal parties and blue typically being the color of conservative parties). See political color for examples.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
  3. Greenhouse gasses? by grimmjeeper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Pardon me for injecting actual science but Mars doesn't have an earth like dipole magnetic field. It can't support a Van Allen radiation belt like Earth. As a result, the solar wind is not deflected as well and the atmosphere is not sustainable. So adding a bunch of greenhouse gas would be pointless as it would just be blown away by the solar wind. So yeah, it's great to dream up ideas on how to make Mars a place we can live, it's also good to come up with ideas that might actually work.

    1. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is often pointed out, but the thought is it took millions/billions of years for solar wind to erode away the atomosphere. Could we not produce it faster than solar wind ripped it away?

    2. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      On geologic time scales, that's true. On time scales relevant to human occupation and terraforming, it's not an issue.

    3. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Could we not produce it faster than solar wind ripped it away?

      Sure, if we crashed Venus and most of the moons in the solar system into Mars. There isn't enough oxidized material on the surface of Mars to come close to 1atm (or even breathable pressure) air though.

    4. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Based on how good we are at producing greenhouse gasses here on Earth, I'd wager we'd have little trouble keeping up with the losses due to solar wind.

    5. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I hear PayPal never made a cent and all of its profits came from government handouts.

      Get a clue.

    6. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by hey! · · Score: 1

      Sure, but everything depends on a the timeframe of your project, doesn't it? The atmosphere won't be appreciably eroded in anything like the timeframe in which modern humans have existed. There'll be plenty of time to develop ways of bringing more water to the planet.

      The bigger issue is the potential effects of living your lifetime in a continual flux of charged particles dropping down from space. There's reason to believe that spending a lot of time outside of a protective magnetosphere might lead to early onset dementia.

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    7. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

      So then the solution is to send the entire population of earth (who will all die from the radiation) + all the cars (which can't run without oxygen) +all the other greenhouse gas producing structures to mars, and then wait for a couple thousand years for the gasses to build up. Seems legit.

    8. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Ramze · · Score: 1

      Both are important.

      Venus has no magnetosphere, and it's got a hellish thick atmosphere... so, yes, you're right in a sense that gravity alone is enough to hold certain types of gasses in an atmosphere for a reasonable amount of time. But, Venus is bleeding that atmosphere away in a comet-like tail. Venus once was very much like Earth with vast oceans, but almost all of that water turned into water vapor which was then split by ionizing radiation from the solar wind. The lighter hydrogen and oxygen ions were blown into space. It's still happening today, though almost all of the water is gone. Eventually the other gasses will also be ionized and blown away.

      Mars has no magnetosphere and even less gravity than Venus, but it is much further from the sun, and the intensity of the solar wind dies off proportional to the square of the distance. I'm sure someone has done the math, but my guess is the lower gravity is a much larger issue than the lack of a magnetic field when it comes to maintaining a Martian atmosphere.

      The missing magnetosphere is a much bigger problem for life than for the atmosphere. We can build domes to hold an atmosphere... even pump out gasses as they dissipate to maintain a planet-wide atmosphere. How do we protect against cosmic rays, though? magnetize the domes?

    9. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by PatientZero · · Score: 1

      There'll be plenty of time to develop ways of bringing more water to the planet.

      Bring on the Later Heavy Bombardment!

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    10. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Still need the magnetosphere for radiation. Far better to make a colony of underground mole people, cheaper, safer, and everyone can have whatever view outside that they want. I don't get all this crazy dome love. They are just plain needlessly risky.

    11. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Based on how good we are at producing greenhouse gasses here on Earth, I'd wager we'd have little trouble keeping up with the losses due to solar wind.

      I'll take that wager, since our issue with green house gasses here on earth comes from our burning of fossil fuels.

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    12. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Do we know one way or another if Mars has coal, oil, and natural gas underground the way Earth does?

    13. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      And someday Earth's core will cool and we'll lose our magnetosphere and our atmosphere will be stripped away, too. It's not the loss of atmosphere that's a problem, only the loss of atmosphere on a time scale where we can't replenish it and/or move on to another planet to colonize. Assuming we can put an atmosphere back onto Mars in under, say, 250 years, the odds are good we could keep it there faster than the tens-of-thousands-to-millions of years it would take to deplete again.

      --
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    14. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      It used to be, they have cleaned up their act in recent years...

    15. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If you would surround Mars with an earth like atmosphere right now (with some magic ofc), the solar wind would need 10 million years to reduce it to problematic levels.
      Also you seem not to know what the 'Van Allen belt' actually is.
      So bottom line, adding/reactivating the Marsian atmosphere for humans would work just fine.

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    16. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      On geologic time scales, that's true. On time scales relevant to human occupation and terraforming, it's not an issue.

      However, on the timescales relevant to human occupation and terraforming... the fallout from the (tens of?) thousands of thermonuclear weapons is very much an issue. To have any significant effect, they'll have to be either near surface (the second worst for fallout) or surface (the worst) bursts. And no, "clean" weapons won't really make much of a difference. They're only "clean" in comparison, by any rational standard they're nasty dirty.

    17. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Did you learn that from a cereal box or something?

      If the Van Allen belts work so well at that, than why does Venus have a thicker atmosphere while having no magnetosphere, and being closer to the sun?

      --
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    18. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by lexman098 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fossil fuels are literally made from fossils of long dead organic organisms. If we found fossil fuels on mars the bigger story would be that there was enough life at one point to create it.

    19. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I also love the fact that he says we need "greenhouse gasses" added to mars, yet it currently has 95% carbon dioxide--undoubtedly from overuse of fossil fuels by the residents.

    20. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I only wish government money would be spent this well. I'll take spurring real innovation over pointless wars any day.

    21. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Could we not produce it faster than solar wind ripped it away?

      That would mean delivering several thousands of tonnes of volatiles to the surface on a daily basis for the future. All of the future.

      Or you could drop a megatonne comet fragment into the atmosphere about two Martian years in three.

      That's certainly not impossible. BUT every delivery will be a significant hazard to the inhabitants of the planet. If you got a North Pole Ocean and dropped the gas supply there, one day you'll gete it wrong and make a big tsunami. If you tried dropping it into Hellas, then some day you'll git the side and cause earth(mars)quakes which will damage people elsewhere on the planet.

      It's a major hazard.

      --
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    22. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      You may want to do the math. Solar wind doesnt strip that much away at all. That is why it takes Billions of years. That is 1 000 000 000 years or more.

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    23. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      nukes designed not to have much fallout don't. Oh and the surface of mars is already blasted by cosmic rays and the such already.

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    24. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      You don't understand anything at all about orbital mechanics or rockets do you.

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    25. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Still need the magnetosphere for radiation. Far better to make a colony of underground mole people, cheaper, safer, and everyone can have whatever view outside that they want. I don't get all this crazy dome love. They are just plain needlessly risky.

      Most normal human beings do not want to live permanently underground. Mind you, most normal human beings wouldn't want to live in domes and not be able to walk outside for very long either.

      The whole problem with Mars colonisation is that only psychotics would be happy with living there permanently. Regardless of the technological problems, there is a huge psychological issue.

      --
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    26. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      "Oil could form with no organic matter, but probably not in commercial quantities"

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    27. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      You may want to do the math

      It's been done, along with measurements.

      Science 315, 501 (2007); Stas Barabash, et al., "Martian Atmospheric Erosion Rates"

      From their abstract :

      We have measured the current loss rate due to the solar wind interaction for different species: Q(O+) = 1.6 * 10^23 per second = 4 grams per second (g s^â'1), Q(O2+) = 1.5 * 10^23s^â'1 = 8 gs^â'1 , and Q(CO2+) = 8 * 10^22 s^â'1 = 6 gs^â'1 in the energy range of 30 to 30,000 electron volts per charge.

      So, the Martian atmosphere is losing about 20g/s of material (well upwards of that, but they're the main species involved.

      A year is 60 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 31557600 seconds, so you're talking about 631152 kg a year of material being lost (Earth year, not Martian year) : 630 tonnes a year need supplying to maintain the current atmosphere.

      Mars needs, for a human - usable atmosphere, about 100 times as much of it. Modelling how much would be lost a year is going to be hard - there's a non-trivial screening of deeper atmosphere by higher atmosphere. So I think my back-of-a-thumbnail estimate of a thousand tonnes a year being needed isn't far wrong.

      That's a thousand tonnes a year of H, O, N, and C. Otherwise known as comet material. You could ship in a kilotonne of ammonia/ CO2 ice and evaporate that on the ground if you liked, but you'd still need to bring in that material.

      To increase the mass of the atmosphere by the 100-fold factor needed, you're going to need a lot more. As you suggest, it has taken around 3 billion years to reach the current state, so to reverse those billion years in a century, you'd need (today's kilotonne/year) * 3 billion / century, which is 30 million kilotonnes a year. For a century. I make that a 20 km diameter comet every year for a century.

      Chixulub was that sort of size impactor. The (alleged) dinosaur killer impactor. Every year for a century. Now, I'm a geologist, and there are genuine questions about whether Chixulub was a dinosaur killer, or a very bad hair day for them. But to have one arriving every year for a century ... the amount of energy you're delivering to the atmosphere isn't going to be good for anyone o nthe surface of the planet while "atmosphere delivery" is going on. It's not going to be good.

      Terraforming Mars is good SF, but atrocious resource management and a bloody difficult way to not achieve your aims.

      --
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    28. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      And as i said 600tons a year is a lot smaller than the original figure of thousands of tons a day and it don't think that first figure is realistic at all. If you could somehow get an atmosphere on mars, maintaining it would be trivial by comparison.

      Also you can get really interesting results if you use very heavy gases like SF4 or UF6. Reduces total mass quite a bit and loss rates in some cases.

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    29. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by Stuarticus · · Score: 1

      The chixulub comparison is quite interesting, it does make you wonder what would happen if you could have your 100 impactors of that size delivered in a short period of time, what effect would that much energy have on the core of the planet (minimal I suppose) and how long would it take for the atmosphere to settle dwon afterwards. Of course the Martian conservation movement would be up in arms.

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    30. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      if you could have your 100 impactors of [Chixulub] size delivered in a short period of time, what effect would that much energy have on the core of the planet (minimal I suppose)

      I agree the effects would be minimal. To a first approximation, a crater is around 1/10th it's diameter in depth. So for Chixulub, the initial crater would have been some 18km deep. which would get you to the lower crust. IF you could stack all 100 together, you'd have a crater 1800km deep, which is about 2/3 of the way to the outer core. Of course, such a deep crater is unfeasible- the sides would be collapsing in as the initial crater is formed. (Incidentally, after the first couple of impactors, there wouldn't be much in the way of atmosphere on the site to worry about. Landing in vacuum.)

      and how long would it take for the atmosphere to settle dwon afterwards. Of course the Martian conservation movement would be up in arms.

      Since a large part of the kinetic energy of the impactor comes back to the atmosphere (as either direct heat from the hot crater heating the atmosphere as it rolls back, or as frictional heating from the impact of secondary projectiles), so many major impactors in a short period would be very destructive. If you stacked them in one location, the secondary impactors would still probably strip most of the atmosphere.

      So you're actually looking for the time for a new atmosphere to form by outgassing. That may simply not happen, if there aren't enough volatiles left in the mantle (or it's not mobile enough to degas effectively).

      If you were going to try to bump up an atmosphere by several hundred-fold (as needed to make Mars vaguely liveable), you're going to need to add (thinks ... Earth's atmosphere is 5.1480Ã--10^18 kg (Wikipedia) ; Mars' 2.5 x 10^16 ... but Mars is a smaller radius planet ; let's say 10^18kg of volatiles ; as long as there's nitrogen for bulk, we can dump CO2 into the ground as carbon and sort out the chemistry later) a thousand tonne (10^6 kg) dirty snowball every day for 10^12 days ... OK, one every hour for ~4*10^10 days. 110 million years. And you'd need a managed landing zone- say a few hundred km wide around the equator of the planet.

      Terraforming Mars is wonderful science fiction. But nonetheless, it's science FICTION.

      --
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    31. Re:Greenhouse gasses? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      I think you mean sulphur hexafluoride. Sulphur tetrafluoride releases HF on contact with water, which is not recommended. Uranium hexafluoride is pretty unhealthy too.

      See my back of the thumbnail calculation - adding a thousand tonnes of volatiles to the atmosphere (by impact) every hour would give Mars around an Earth's atmosphere (to an order of magnitude) in a mere 110 million years. It's fiction.

      --
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  4. Gravity by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

    Is Mars massive enough to have the gravitational pull to keep all of those greenhouse gases from escaping into space?

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  5. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Punko · · Score: 5, Interesting

    magnetosphere is useful for keeping an atmosphere in geological time frames. As we are all finding out, man does not function in geological time frames, but much faster. An atmosphere on Mars would degrade over time, without replenishment if we don't have a magnetosphere. So basically, we'd need to crash a comet or two onto the planet every century. If we have the ability to create an atmosphere in the first place, maintaining it would be several orders of magnitude easier.

    What is being proposed is terraforming, which even with nukes is not "quick" in human terms.

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  6. Blow up the Moon! by selectspec · · Score: 1
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  7. Come on, Cohagen... by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

    give da people aih!

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  8. Henchmen offered by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Dear Mr. Musk,

    on your idea to nuke the poles of Mars I was very intrigued. I would like to apply as a loyal henchman for your endeavour.

    Key characteristics:
    * no questions asked
    * red shirt preferred
    * no family ties
    * screaming capability above normal
    * natural aversion against superheroes
    * weapon experience : none, but I can look (very) scary

    Previous experience : none, but eager to learn.

    I look forward to an interview in which I can explain my qualifications further.

    Regards,

    D. Nachos

  9. Terraforming Mars by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

    The idea here is probably to release the carbon dioxide and water vapor frozen at the poles. The problem is I don't think that there is enough carbon dioxide there, and without massive amounts of carbon dioxide the water will freeze right out. I think the only possibility is to release a tailored mix of long lived gasses that will warm Mars as much as possible.

    Mars can't possibly be kept warm without help. Many of the greenhouse gasses will break down eventually, and the solar wind will strip off even carbon dioxide. I suspect the rates of loss are such that they can be made up by an active society without too much difficultly.

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    1. Re: Terraforming Mars by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

      Uhm, the global temperature on Mars has been rising for a while now.

      http://news.nationalgeographic...

      Contrary to that 2007 article, the variations in the Sun's output is not noticeably warming the Earth nor, presumably, Mars. In a few hundred millions of years it will, but that's longer than I want to wait.

      --
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    2. Re: Terraforming Mars by jbengt · · Score: 1

      If it's warm enough for the caps to melt then it's warm enough for plant life to grow

      You do realize that it's carbon dioxide ice, not water ice, and that it sublimes (doesn't melt) around -109F / -78C, which is much colder than ice melting at 32F / 0C.

  10. smaller, thinner by tekrat · · Score: 1

    Mars is smaller than Earth. Gravity-wise, Mars can't hold on to an atmosphere the way the Earth can. Plus solar wind, plus lack of protection from cosmic radiation.

    It would be like living on top of Everest. O2 would be scarce, and it would bleed away quickly. Plus you couldn't stay out long without radiation shielding.

    We can terraform Mars, but it would be expensive and not worth it. Easier and cheaper to do something about the runaway greenhouse issue on Venus; thin things out, reduce the atmospheric pressure, and there you've got something sustainable. Venus could even house enough solar to provide excess power to Earth, making it a useful colony. Mars would be like a welfare baby where we never stop having to provide for it.

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    1. Re:smaller, thinner by Reibisch · · Score: 2

      Just... What?

      We could just ... 'thin things out'. Sure. And let's not forget that Venus could 'house enough solar' to export.

      Do you even read what you type?

    2. Re:smaller, thinner by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

      You forgot about the acid in the atmosphere or the corrosive ground. You couldn't live on the surface. Even probes can't stand the surface for any length of time.
      You'd have to live in some bioshock infinite balloon habitation. That poses a whole other set of problems that honestly is more extreme than living on mars or the moon.
      On mars you can at least build habitation 20 feet below the surface and be protected from cosmic radiation. Ditto with the moon. Hell there might be lava tubes on the moon which is the perfect place to set up some permanent residence. There's water on both, explain how any of that works on venus living in some floating bubble?

    3. Re:smaller, thinner by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      You're not thinking big enough. Venus is just like Earth only hotter. Mars is teeny tiny and doesn't have the right gravity. Both are far too close to the Sun to be safe when the Sun explodes in six gajillion years.

      No, I say we terraform Neptune. And then Saturn. Both have gravities similar to Earth, and they have a lot more space too.

      We just need to, uh, thin the atmosphere (that's easy right? How hard could it be?) and do something about the lack of a solid surface on either. Also I guess we probably should do something about the massive radiation coming from inside the planets (I don't know about Neptune, but I know Saturn has a problem there.)

      Venus? Pah! Waste of time. Hardly a solution to our overpopulation or whatever it is that means we need to leave Earth at all. No, let's focus on the big planets... ;-)

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  11. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Faust6 · · Score: 1

    True enough. Honestly I don't think we'd need much motivation to nuke Mars from orbit, because nukes. It would mean testing dangerous technology right out in the open as it wouldn't be (exclusively, anyway) used as a potential weapon. There's a spacecraft depicted in Neal Stephenson's book Anathem that strikes me as already easy to conceive.

  12. War of the Worlds by mu51c10rd · · Score: 1

    Hasn't anyone read the book? Those Martians have it coming...preemptive strike!

  13. Hush, Peon! by BringMyShuttle · · Score: 1

    He has money. Therefore we must listen to him!

  14. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think the problem would be with launching the nukes in the first place. NASA has had enough blowback trying to launch craft with tiny RTGs.

  15. Become Morlocks by BoRegardless · · Score: 1

    Because Earthlings will have to live underground on Mars.

  16. Re:Green House Gases? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

    yes, but there are organisms that would be happy to live in that, if it was warmer, that would then make oxygen atmosphere. it's happened before on another world near you

  17. Brillant idea! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    The quickest way to fund the manned space program is to alert the "blow crap up" political groups in the U.S. that the Iranians hid their nukes on Mars.

  18. Someone help me out with the science... by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 1

    So nukes aside, let's explore the other option... how would one produce greenhouse gasses on mars? I can't stand the bullshit rhetoric argument that we're pretty damned good at it here on earth, so it must be easy on mars..... On earth we have millions of people, on earth we have COAL, on earth we have industry driven by the consumerism of those millions of people... none of those things exist on mars. There is no energy on mars AT ALL except the sun hitting the planet, and here on earth, using the power of the sun has been argued as the REMEDY for greenhouse gasses! So WTF? Where does the energy and chemistry come from that will produce billions of tons of greenhouse gasses on mars? Sounds like unicorn fart futures are way up!

    --
    Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    1. Re:Someone help me out with the science... by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      The OTHER option is to do nothing. I would expect us to explore and document how Mars is in its natural state before ever even discussing terrasforming of ANY kind. Its hubris and ego that we are even talking about it at all. The first 50 years of mars exploration should be observation and research only. After that THEN we can talk about terraforming.

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:Someone help me out with the science... by Enigma2175 · · Score: 1

      So nukes aside, let's explore the other option... how would one produce greenhouse gasses on mars? I can't stand the bullshit rhetoric argument that we're pretty damned good at it here on earth, so it must be easy on mars..... On earth we have millions of people, on earth we have COAL, on earth we have industry driven by the consumerism of those millions of people... none of those things exist on mars. There is no energy on mars AT ALL except the sun hitting the planet, and here on earth, using the power of the sun has been argued as the REMEDY for greenhouse gasses! So WTF? Where does the energy and chemistry come from that will produce billions of tons of greenhouse gasses on mars? Sounds like unicorn fart futures are way up!

      Why put nukes aside? The polar icecaps hold a lot of CO2 and H2O, with enough energy we could melt them. We could use conventional explosives but nukes would be more efficient. Another option to melt them (and add heat to the system) by using a large reflector in space to direct extra sunlight to the planetary surface. Once you get to a certain point the process should start to feedback on itself, as the planetary temperature warms it would melt more ice which adds greenhouse gasses which warms the planet that melts more ice. There are also carbonaceous minerals on or near the martian surface but breaking those up would probably be harder. There is also the option of dropping comets or asteroids on the planet to add energy and water. Any terraforming plan would obviously need to use multiple methods to even get close to the temperature that we want and all the engineering tech needed probably doesn't exist yet but it's certainly not impossible.

      --

      Enigma

    3. Re:Someone help me out with the science... by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 1

      I believe I asked for science... not speculation. Your cavalier use of the word "probably" has nothing to do with actual probability, and should probably be replaced with the word "speculatively" or "imaginatively."

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    4. Re:Someone help me out with the science... by grahamsz · · Score: 1

      Considering we put our first lander on Mars in 75, the first 50 years of exploration will be up in 2025. I don't think it's too unreasonable to be talking about it now.

    5. Re:Someone help me out with the science... by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Your post sounded very much like you don't care for science, and just want to hear what will make you feel content with doing nothing. If that is not the case, try not attacking scientific findings while asking for scientific findings. You'll look less insane that way.

    6. Re:Someone help me out with the science... by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 1

      hah hahha haaaaaaaaa. Magnificent. Are you actually DEFENDING the gp's scientific findings? I was lamenting the fact that there was no actual science being cited here... and you tell me I am attacking scientific findings. That deserves a slow clap...

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
  19. Re:Elon: no, please. by sinij · · Score: 1

    I have some bad news for you - entire space (and that presently includes Mars) is highly radioactive due to emissions from the stars. One nuke or a hundred won't make a dent in that and won't even come close to what Sun already emits toward Mars.

  20. Re:Slashdot. 2 days late and a dollar short by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

    And yet, here you are, as an AC no less.

  21. Re:Elon: no, please. by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 2

    Yeah... the sand worms!

    --
    Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
  22. Re:irony by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

    1. You don't know how to properly use the word irony. THAT is ironic. 2. You must be one hell of a credentialed climatologist in order to come up with these untested/unverified/unsourced theories while sitting at your computer on slash dot. Have a nice day.

  23. Re:It's the Only Way To Be Sure by thedonger · · Score: 4, Funny

    You need to drink some water and go take a nap.

    You need to jam a great big black dick up your ass

    I was skeptical at first, but I just tried your suggestion and it worked! Thanks!

    --
    Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
  24. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

    I think people are missing the sheer scale of this, what I assume is tongue-in-cheek. suggestion. We're talking about a planet here. It would take an awful lot of nukes to vapourise enough ice to create any kind of increasd atmosphere pressure, even if there was enough ice to do so. Afterwards it would be quite radioactive and there are no guarantees it wouldn't just quickly freeze again. You'd be much better served parking giant solar concentrator arrays above the poles and blasting away instead.

  25. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by AC-x · · Score: 1

    There's a spacecraft depicted in Neal Stephenson's book Anathem that strikes me as already easy to conceive.

    That ship was actually based on a real concept.

    (Also features in KSP :)

  26. Seems insufficient by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

    According to some quick internet research:
    1) A 30x increase in atmosphere would be required in order to walk around with an oxygen tank unprotected without your blood boiling.
    2) Melting the polar ice caps completely would approximately double the atmospheric pressure.

    So it's unclear to me what advantage the nukes would bring.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
    1. Re:Seems insufficient by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Raising the temperature by around 4 kelvin gets you a ~50x increase in atmospheric pressure by sublimating the dry ice on the polar caps and in the soil. That takes you to around 0.3 atmospheres, similar to the pressure at the top of Everest. At that pressure, you only need an oxygen mask, not a pressure suit, which would be a HUGE improvement to livability.

      Nuking the poles is not about sublimating the CO2 directly, but by spreading the darker soil that would absorb more solar radiation and cause the temperature increase.

    2. Re:Seems insufficient by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Interesting, but if all the dry ice in the polar caps only causes a 2x increase it's hard to believe that there's enough dry ice on the rest of the planet to cause a 50x increase (considering one wouldn't expect carbon dioxide to be in solid form that often away from the poles). Source please?

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
  27. Sounds explosive by jittles · · Score: 1

    Don't worry Elon, I have your Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator right here!

    1. Re:Sounds explosive by lysdexia · · Score: 1

      Don't you know the planet's supply of Illudium Fosdick (The Shave Cream Atom) is alarmingly low? Dream on, Eager Young Space Cadet.

  28. Apparently, you haven't done the math by tekrat · · Score: 1

    Please pull out your calculator and just try and figure out what even a 0.5 degree temp difference means when applied worldwide.

    You're talking about much more energetic storms. Now judging by your Faux News brainwashed redneck post, I'm sure you live nowhere near a hurricane, but those tornadoes are more than likely to rip your trailer-home to shreds.

    In fact, the only good news about Global Warming is that it will completely eliminate Florida. All the oceans have to do is rise a few more inches. Which is coming by 2050.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Apparently, you haven't done the math by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      The Earth is accumulating about 4 Hiroshima atomic bombs worth of energy every second due to anthropogenic global warming. Since 1998 that amounts to around 2,269,012,000 total Hiroshima bombs. Here's a page that illustrates that.

  29. Re: There's still no magnetosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's right.

    But what is really annoying is that Musk's publicist is great at getting him mentioned here even when he parrots other peoples' ideas (I think all of his business ideas come from 19th century World's Fairs- electric car, hyper loop, colonies on Mars..) or offers some of his own crackpot idea.

    I also think Musk fanboys need to look up 'innovation' in the dictionary.

  30. Re:It's the Only Way To Be Sure by kheldan · · Score: 3, Informative

    You need to jam a great big black dick up your ass

    You need to return to your containment unit (http://www.4chan.org/b/) and stay there, or we'll be forced to use The Hose on you. Again.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  31. Re:Just had to get that plug by bledri · · Score: 1

    ... 1. Scientist...enough said ...

    People with you're attitude you scare me. Enough said.

    --
    Some privacy policy Slashdot.
  32. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Defenestrar · · Score: 1

    Tongue-in-cheek? Yeah, maybe from most people, but this guy has a reputation for coming up with a crazy sounding idea, launching it, and then going on to the next crazy idea. Never underestimate the probability of what Elon Musk might start just cause it sounds like fun.

  33. Re:Just had to get that plug by bledri · · Score: 1

    ... 1. Scientist...enough said ...

    People with you're attitude you scare me. Enough said.

    Wow, I was so scared I used the contraction instead of the possessive. Fuck.

    --
    Some privacy policy Slashdot.
  34. Re:Elon Musk is a moron by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Most high energy radiation is blocked by a simple function of mass. Optical transmission has almost no bearing on other areas of the EM spectrum.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  35. Re: There's still no magnetosphere by willworkforbeer · · Score: 1

    Musk is determined to become the new Chuck Norris meme. Magnetosphere? Musk himself is magnetic enough for two planets.

    --
    Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
  36. SimEarth by blazer1024 · · Score: 1

    Reminds me a lot of the terraform Mars scenario in SimEarth.

    Step 1: Hit Mars with a couple of comets (brings in water and stirs up dust)
    Step 2: ...
    Step 3: Prof-... er, I mean watch the forests of Mars burn because you left your oxygen generators on for too long

  37. Just crash comets into the planet by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    Lets you solve the lack of oxygen and other problems all at one go.

    Of course that completely ignores the moon is the much more appropriate choice for colonization to begin with.

  38. Quit spending money on space! by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Quit spending money on space!

    There are plenty of place on Earth we should be nuking first.

  39. Re:Nuclear WInter by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

    No. There are no cities, structures and forests to burn (or oxygen to support fires) on Mars to produce all of the soot needed to cause a nuclear winter

  40. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by michelcolman · · Score: 1

    The bigger issue is probably the cool (at least as compared to Earth and Venus) Martian core, a majority of the original Martian atmosphere is probably still there, it has simply "sunk" into the planet without a hot core constantly ejecting it back to the surface.

    Then just drill a big hole down to the center, throw in some nukes, fill up the hole and let the nukes go off. Problem solved. Try not to blow the planet apart, though. Maybe on second thought just throw loads of uranium in so it goes critical but not quite as violently.

    Where do I apply to become a SpaceX engineer?

  41. Re:Green House Gases? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You and your "evolution" RELIGION are a Poison. If God wanted us to inhabit Mars he would have created EDEN there. Jesus didn't say anything about MARS so its not for us to use unless HE says so.

  42. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Faust6 · · Score: 1

    There you go, I suppose.

  43. Re: There's still no magnetosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There's a stark difference between and idea and a workable product. Musk might have borrow ideas (ones never fully realized) but he's done more than just parrot the ideas, he's made them a reality.

    As well, he's essentially open-sourced some of the core technology to allow many people to have access as it will drive the prices of these batteries and solar units down over time.

    I mean seriously, he's a billionair spending his own money for the benefit of all humanity, and you can still find shit to nit pick?

    Unreal.

  44. Re:There Goes Our Hero Watch That Fucker Elon GO by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

    Discovery from 2001 was a Nuclear Thermal propelled spacecraft (Hydrogen fuel heated by a nuclear reactor ala NERVA), although they never make clear if it was a solid core, or gaseous core reactor. It was not a nuclear bomb propelled craft (ala Orion)

  45. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by wwphx · · Score: 1

    I was in Las Vegas a few years ago and went to the Atomic Testing Museum. They had an exhibit and some models of the Orion program. Quite interesting.

    --
    When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
  46. Make sure you don't use the Falcon to launch it... by Pascoea · · Score: 1

    ...we'd hate to have it blow up prematurely.

    Sorry, I couldn't help it.

    But seriously, Elon, keep doing what you are doing. And let's worry about un-fucking this planet before we start fucking up another one.

  47. Late-Breaking News: IT'S HAPPENING! by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Funny
    An emergency session of the Council, something not held in the better part of a yeernak, has just concluded.

    K'Breel, Speaker for the Council of Elders, emerged from Council chambers, and addressed the planet thus:

    "IT'S HAPPENING!" thundered the Speaker's voice across the frozen plains. "The first blueworlders came in their natural static form, sending stationary representatives to orbit our world and settle onto our plains. You said that if all they could do was remain in high orbit or dig a little trench that was so tiny that any freshly-hatched podling could cover it over in an afternoon, that the obese and sedentary blueworlers were mostly harmless."

    "WE TRIED TO WARN YOU, BUT YOU DIDN'T LISTEN! Then came the mobile ones. Brave fighters for the Martian Defense Force have deflected a few of them into deep space, shot others down in fiery blazes of glory, but still the invaders came. Their mechanized terrors evolved rapidly in size and capability with every wave - the first a small short-lived rock-pushing prototype, the second two larger and armed with gelsac-shredding drills, which left a trail of destruction in their wake during yeernaks of struggle, and the latest one descended from a skyhook, powered by Pew-238, and armed with a fully operational photonic weapon system."

    "And now - now, after our atmospheric scientists have confirmed the effectiveness of their hundred-yeernak small-scale test on their own world - we have their declaration of intent to use chain reactions of core annihilation to scour the snows and release so much carbdiox that they create a greenhouse effect here - in order to saturate our elegantly-dessicated sands with the toxic and corrosive dihidrox filth that now covers three quarters of their hot, blue, gellhole of a world. THIS IS THE FUTURE YOU CHOSE!"

    "BUT YOU CAN STOP IT, PODMATES! All it takes, all it takes, podmates, is an investment in advancing the tribalism of the organic self-replicators that tend to the blueworlders. The Blueworlder Social and Physical Sciences Committee reports that the self-replicators are flawed, critically so, and tend to devolve into tribal groups prone to infighting, primitive displays of aggression, and intertribal warfare. The only flag their mechanized monsters shall raise will be our own red flags, and they will raise our flag over their own world, hoisted by their own proverbial petards. REJOICE, PODMATES! WE SHALL BURY THEM!"

    When a junior analyst reminded K'Breel that maybe the real threat was the self-replicators, and that the creatures the Council had spent a full 30% of the planetary budget fighting, were not, in fact, the primary threat -- that their rapid evolution was actually the result of the controlled and directed guidance of thousands of organic minds working in concert -- and that his report, "Organic Blueworlders Determined to Strike in Homeland" had been summarily ignored, K'Breel had the reporter's gelsacs nailed to two small white rectangular posts and promptly incinerated in carbohydrox fires. Slithering back to the Council chambers as the posts smoldered in the background, the Speaker was heard to mutter "As if a small group of thoughtful, committed organics could change the fate of the world for the better or the worse; as if it ever has..."

  48. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by catchblue22 · · Score: 2

    An atmosphere on Mars would degrade over time, without replenishment if we don't have a magnetosphere. So basically, we'd need to crash a comet or two onto the planet every century.

    If the Mars atmosphere was degrading that quickly (century timescales) due to the solar wind and no magnetosphere, then Mars would have no atmosphere right now. From what I have read, any changes we make would last a million years or so. The real changes happen when you tip the system into a new equilibrium. If you add more greenhouse gasses, then that causes warming. The warming causes frozen CO2 to pass back into the atmosphere, causing still more warming. The idea of thermonuclear bombs at the poles seems like an effective way of releasing large amounts of greenhouse gasses (frozen CO2) into the atmosphere. To keep up the processes, you could probably release certain versions of chlorofluorocarbons into the atmosphere over time. They are somewhat persistent and are extremely effective at trapping the Sun's radiation as heat. If we did start to set up settlements there, we could manufacture such gasses in situ.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  49. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

    Actually... you would need both.
    Gravity to keep an atmosphere is easy. Hell even pluto has a detectable atmosphere even though it's smaller than the moon.
    Solar winds do strip atmosphere and over time will leave you like mars of the moon.

  50. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

    Nuking the poles would release enough CO2 to start a warming process. This would cause more frozen CO2 to be released from the ground. Eventually you would start releasing water vapour. The initial kick from the thermonuclear bombs would likely start other feedbacks in the system.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  51. Eh, almost right by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

    If he had said that he wanted to drill to the core of mars and inject fissionable material directly into the core to start it back up and hopefully jump start it's magnetosphere he would have had an interesting idea on bringing a dead planet back to life.

  52. An april 1st headline in september? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    I have no words.

  53. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

    And the parent post demonstrates why America is languishing as a civilization. Behold the "can't do" attitude. Dream small. Spend big. (I'm thinking about the California high speed rail line here...amongst the slowest and most expensive in the world). America is becoming a corrupt small-minded oligarchy.

    I think the poster is understating how much protection the atmosphere provides. The Earth's atmosphere alone provides radiation protection equivalent to about a three foot thick slab of metal. As for atmospheric degradation due to the solar wind, from what I understand, if we densified the atmosphere, it would take about a million years for the solar wind to undo the changes.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  54. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

    Nuking the poles would release enough CO2 to start a warming process. This would cause more frozen CO2 to be released from the ground. Eventually you would start releasing water vapour. The initial kick from the thermonuclear bombs would likely start other feedbacks in the system.

    Show me calculations, not seat-of-the-pants assumptions. Because here's a factually supported assumption: if the CO2 and water vapor froze out of the atmosphere to start with, pushing it back into the atmosphere isn't going to reverse the feedback loop that caused those gases to freeze out in the first place. Nevermind that, for millions-to-billions of years, what has remained in the atmosphere has been lost to space so that your near-surface reserves are likely far less than those that were present Mars crossed its tipping points.

    Where is the extra CO2 and water going to come from to generate a net positive feedback?

  55. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by powerlord · · Score: 1

    Also shows up in a book by Poul Anderson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
  56. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    That's exactly it. The core has to be restarted for anything to work, to create and sustain an atmosphere from the sequestered gasses in the ground and magnetosphere. Yes, we probably can live on a dead world, but it will need constant replenishment from outside, like the space station. It's too labor intensive.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  57. Crossing the threshold by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one that think that Elon Musk has crossed the line from visionary to full blown nutjob?

    1. Re:Crossing the threshold by vovin · · Score: 1

      Only if you ever though he was a visionary.

  58. Re: There's still no magnetosphere by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Huh.. so what are your credentials?? Oh, right.

  59. Re:It's the Only Way To Be Sure by kheldan · · Score: 1

    SJW

    If raising the signal-to-noise ratio of Slashdot by discouraging shitheads from hanging around makes me a SJW, then so be it.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  60. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Except most of his crazy ideas either never get implemented, or don't work. People focus on his successes so much they tend not to see his failures.

    So. Most of my crazy ideas (or yours) never get implemented either. SOME of his crazy ideas have been implemented. Which is why he is funding a real rocket company and we... well, we're posting on Slashdot.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  61. Re:It's the Only Way To Be Sure by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Using the term retard is a hurtful reference to those of the non-brain enabled persuasion. This means that you yourself are a Reactionary Derper.

  62. For the love of... by aseth · · Score: 1

    He was asked what would be the *quickest* way, not what he thought was the *best* way.

  63. Lower Gravity on Mars is a problem by frank249 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The surface gravity on Mars is 38% of that on Earth. It is not known if this is enough to hold a breathable atmosphere. Additionally, the lower gravity of Mars would require 2.6 times Earth’s column air mass to obtain 100 kPa pressure at the surface. Earth's atmosphere has a mass of about 5.15×1018 kg three quarters of which is within about 11 km of the surface. The atmosphere becomes thinner and thinner with increasing altitude, with no definite boundary between the atmosphere and outer space. The Kármán line, at 100 km, is often used as the border between the atmosphere and outer space. So the atmosphere on Mars would have to extend to 260kms to have the same surface air pressure as Earth.

    --

    Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

    1. Re:Lower Gravity on Mars is a problem by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Someone hand that man a mod-up, he put it way better than me a few posts below. This is basically the problem we face here, Mars would already have an atmosphere, if it could retain it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Lower Gravity on Mars is a problem by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Well we do know mars could hold a breathable atmosphere for many millions of years. The physics of gravity and a gas is pretty straightforward. However as you pointed out, you need a lot of atmosphere to make it work. that has to come from somewhere.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    3. Re:Lower Gravity on Mars is a problem by frank249 · · Score: 1

      Elon Musk recently posted on Twitter that is was not advocating setting off nukes on Mars but merely presenting it as one of the options available to quickly generating an atmosphere. Setting aside the problems of radiation and the mechanics of getting thousands of bombs to Mars, what would be the effect of nuking the poles?

      The polar caps at both poles consist primarily (70%) of water ice. The northern polar cap has a diameter of about 1,000 km during the northern Mars summer, and contains about 1.6 million cubic kilometres of ice, which, if spread evenly on the cap, would be 2 km thick. (This compares to a volume of 2.85 million cubic kilometres for the Greenland ice sheet.) The southern polar cap has a diameter of 350 km and a thickness of 3 km. The total volume of ice in the south polar cap plus the adjacent layered deposits has also been estimated at 1.6 million cubic km.

      So there are a few problems with this. First the northern pole region has a surface area of 3,141,590 sq km and the southern a further 384850 sq kms.. Even the mort powerful nukes only cover a few sq kms with the direct fireball. And even if they can vaporize the ice, it would condense and freeze in a short period of time due to the cold tempuratures. The Martian surface temperatures vary from lows of about 143 C (225 F) at the winter polar caps to highs of up to 35 C (95 F) in equatorial summer. The wide range in temperatures is due to the thin atmosphere which cannot store much solar heat, the low atmospheric pressure, and the low thermal inertia of Martian soil. The planet is also 1.52 times as far from the Sun as Earth, resulting in just 43% of the amount of sunlight.

      In the long run, it might be easier to cool Venus with space shades than try to warm Mars.

      --

      Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

    4. Re:Lower Gravity on Mars is a problem by frank249 · · Score: 1

      Earth's atmosphere consists of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and only .04% carbon dioxide. The water in the ice caps contain oxygen but where could you get all the nitrogen?

      --

      Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.

  64. Re: There's still no magnetosphere by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    In particular, those who see no value in space programs have no business commenting on proposals like this. If Mars is useless, then why not let Elon Musk waste his own money nuking it?

  65. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    "Martians" could import hydrocarbons from Titan.

  66. Re:Only way by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    Haven't those poor people suffered enough over the centuries?

  67. Re:It's the Only Way To Be Sure by kheldan · · Score: 1

    Y U SO MAD THO? XD XD XD

    Really, kid, go back to 4chan. That's clearly where you belong. Or go do your homework or something.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  68. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    you are a mars climate change denier?

  69. Nuking Barsoom is an act of aggression! by sglewis100 · · Score: 1

    Won't anyone think of the poor Barsoomians?

  70. get your finger off that button.... by twnth · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't we do a more thorough job of checking the place out for life, before we start painting the landscape with our most powerful weapons?

    We should have waited.
    ~Saxifrage Russel

  71. How long would that warming last? by rnturn · · Score: 1

    As I understand it, Mars has virtually no magnetic field so it receives the full brunt of the solar wind without much resistance. I recall reading (somewhere) that was theory as to why Mars doesn't have much of an atmosphere any more. If you release all/most of the CO2 in the polar ice caps, what's to stop the solar wind from stripping that away, too? Plus, what little atmosphere is left on the planet -- still enough to produce the occasional dust storm -- would then producing storms with an exciting new ingredient: radioactive debris created by the nukes. Great.

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    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  72. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

    Energy source: Nuclear. Chlorine is likely quite common. You'd have to find Fluorine...there is likely a lot there somewhere. Carbon, as you said can come from CO2. You wouldn't need to make that much. Some chlorofluorocarbons are extremely potent greenhouse gasses that have a long life in the atmosphere...half-life in multiple decades if not a century.

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    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  73. Not gonna work by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    The idea itself is compelling, but you miss one very important little detail: Mars is WAY smaller than our planet. And I mean WAY smaller. It's a little over half the diameter of our planet. Its mass is 1/10th of the Earth's mass. Average density is 2/3 of that of our planet. Escape velocity is half of that we have here.

    The problem ain't that it cannot create an atmosphere. The problem is that it cannot retain it.

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    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Not gonna work by delt0r · · Score: 1

      The gravity is plenty to hold on to a atmosphere. If you have enough of it it would last a very long time. But it is a *lot* of atmosphere, where you would get such peta tonnage of volatiles and move it, is the trick.

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  74. Re:irony by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    I find it pretty damn funny that alarmists have begun calling global warming climate change like skeptics have always called it. And now they're saying we're heading for amother Little Ice age like we 'realists' have always speculated. And now they're saying CO2 is the weakest gas like we've always said....

    I find it pretty damn funny that "skeptics" think "alarmists" have just recently switched to climate change from global warming when the term climate change has been used at least since the 1950's. See: "Plass, G.N., 1956, The Carbon Dioxide Theory of Climatic Change, Tellus VIII, 2. (1956), p. 140-154."

    No scientist has said we're heading for another Little Ice Age, just that the Sun may enter a period like the Maunder Minimum. The Maunder Minimum and low solar output in general was not the cause of the Little Ice Age, just an exacerbating factor.

    If we want life on Mars then we have to raise the co2 levels among other things.....

    The CO2 level in the Martian atmosphere is already over 900,000 ppm. The problem is that the atmosphere is just so thin in the first place.

  75. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by Cito · · Score: 1

    After we nuked the Poles we'd need to round them up on boxcars and transport them to a facility to be greenhouse gassed.

    then baked in ovens until Atmosphere!

  76. Re:Green House Gases? by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    Hey God told Bush we had to go to Mars. After freeing Iraq from tyranny. You haven't been listening to His Burning Shrub.

  77. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by donaldm · · Score: 1

    Gravity on Mars is only 38% of the Earth's and has no magnetic field to absorb/reflect radiation form the sun so even if you created an atmosphere it would not be anywhere as thick as what humans are use to. Living on Mars is possible but it would not be that much different than if we colonized our moon since we would still have to live in shielded shelters and wear protective gear when going outside.

    That said I am not against space exploration and even colonization of space but lets build on science facts and not some SiFi pipe dream. I think the main attraction, although that is subjective of using nuclear weapons is that they make a big bang and do have a wow factor.

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    There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  78. There is that by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    There is that indeed.

  79. We should be more prudent. by mike4ty4 · · Score: 1

    I think we shouldn't be trying to terraform Mars anyways until we've first ruled out the possibility of the existence of any native life. Evidence keeps coming in that makes the odds look better and better there may be something there, yet we have nothing to be able to say conclusively and decisively one way or the other. I think we should get that out of the way first.

    If we don't, and there was life and we destroyed it, well, for one, is that moral? Even if it's only simple organisms, is it right to just blow them away? Especially we want to claim to care about, say, life here on Earth. What kinds of attitudes would we be putting out into the universe that might get us into trouble in the more distant future when maybe we could actually travel somewhere else with real, intelligent life? More "tangibly", we would be doing science a HUGE disservice by destroying an example of a second natural biosphere, something which would be of enormous scientific value in its own right to study.

    The ruthless ideology of exploitation is what created a lot of the problems we have right here on Earth. Why should we continue it?

    So I think we should get that down first. If there is life, we should try to find a way to preserve it. That may mean sacrificing terraforming, or even colonization at all, although I'd imagine that if we actually worked on understanding that life once we found it, we might be able to figure out a way to live on the planet without also denying it life.

    And even evidence of past life could be vulnerable. In that case it's not so much a moral issue as an issue of scientific value. I think we need a prudent approach to Mars. I don't think we shouldn't go; I just think we need prudence and a measured plan.

    Personally, I think the nukes should be used to resurrect Project Orion and send a manned mission to the Jupiter or Saturn system, or even further to Pluto or even Eris. THAT would be awesome.

  80. He's forgetting one thing by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 1

    Mars' once-liquid core cooled and solidified long ago, so Mars does not have a magnetosphere. Without one, keeping Mars habitable will always be an uphill battle.

  81. Re:Elon Musk is a moron by Bathroom+Humor · · Score: 1

    Even if the material that they use for domes couldn't be both transparent AND block harmful radiation, (Which it could, making a special glass or even plastic that reduced radiation is not unfeasible. Even water can block radiation, though you probably need about a meter of it to reach earths' background levels when around Mars) All you would really need to do is apply a magnetic field to the dome, and include a material that gets rid of UV radiation, and presto change-o, that could do it.

    I would imagine having a mostly sub-surface housing unit with smaller surface domes would be easier to maintain since the ground is better at shielding from the sun as well as space debris and wind storms. But that's beside the point.

  82. Re:It's the Only Way To Be Sure by Phoghat · · Score: 1

    the IQ of the /. crowd has apparently hit nadir

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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
  83. Re:There's still no magnetosphere by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    Sadly there's also the problem that they are using the Disney magically enhanced nuclear weapons. Real nuclear weapons are about a million times less powerful. Elon Musk's idea is about as realistic as firing an assault rifle at the ground and using it to get yourself into space..

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    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  84. Re:Elon Musk is a moron by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    Dumbass. There are a lot of things wrong with idea which is incredibly stupid. The radiation from the bombs however would be almost totally irrelevant.

    The real danger from radiation on Mars and on the way to Mars is NATURAL solar cosmic radiation, the shields against cosmic radiation would also stop any radiation from nuclear bombs. Fallout would be a small issue but the solution there is just to wait a year or two.

    The real problem of course is that REAL nuclear bombs are not actually anywhere near powerful enough to do what Musk is suggesting..

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    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  85. Re:irony by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    The first thing you need on Mars is an atmosphere. With virtually no atmosphere CO2 levels are totally irrelevant.

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    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  86. Re:Uh... Saturn ring chunks are better by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    A very good idea. Of course how do you steer or move a comet? About the only mechanism that has the power to do it today is 'Super Orion' - pushing them using lots of small nukes..

    The other 'tiny' problem with Super Orion is that the ship has to launch from the Earth - and that means detonating dozens of small nukes in the atmosphere and in low orbit here. - Launching a Super Orion ship might (statistically) kill a couple of hundred or even a couple of thousand people over the world from cancer.
    Given that pollution from cars kills about half a million people a year, and pollution from burning coal kills over a million a year, and smoking kills about 10 million a year, a few thousand is just statistical noise - but I bet people will still complain about it.

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    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  87. Re:"Fossil Fuels" by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Fossil fuels are literally made from fossils of long dead organic organisms. If we found fossil fuels on mars the bigger story would be that there was enough life at one point to create it.

    There are no such things as "Fossil" Fuels. An old myth that will never die it would seem..

    Is this some Young Earth Creationist Conspiracy Theory?

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    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  88. Re:Green House Gases? by dave420 · · Score: 1

    Because 95% of 1L of gas is not the same as 95% of 2L of gas.

  89. Re:Great idea.... by dave420 · · Score: 1

    There he goes again with the insane anti-Muslim nonsense he's becoming so famous for. Brilliant work, sparky.

  90. Wrong on both counts by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    nukes designed not to have much fallout don't.

     

    1. "Clean" nukes aren't actually clean except by comparison with "dirty" nukes - they're still plenty nasty.
    2. Either way, the ruling case here is the need for a near surface or surface burst to expose the ice cap to the maximum radiation level - both will suck up surface material and turn it into fallout

    So, not only wrong, but you don't even have a clue what you're talking about.
     

    Oh and the surface of mars is already blasted by cosmic rays and the such already

    So? That doesn't make drenching with fallout sensible. Doubly so since so many colonization plans depend on mining surface material or using it for construction. In either case, making it 'hot' is a really bad idea.
    So, not only wrong, but you don't even have a clue what you're talking about.