OpenGL Library Mesa 11.0 Brings Open Source OpenGL 4

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OpenGL Library Mesa 11.0 Brings Open Source OpenGL 4

Posted by Soulskill on Saturday September 12, 2015 @06:51AM from the onward-and-upward dept.

jj110888 writes: Mesa, the open source implementation of OpenGL, has just announced version 11.0. This adds support for the amdgpu driver, fixes for non-Windows platforms, new OpenGL ES extensions supported, and more. Most notable is the support for all extensions in OpenGL 4.1 by the radeonsi and nvc0 drivers, and support for extensions added in OpenGL 4.2 by the i965 driver. This brings the OpenGL version supported by core Mesa from 3.3 to 4.2, five and a half years after OpenGL 4 was released. Mesamatrix gives the status of which OpenGL extensions are supported by which open source driver. Vulkan, on the otherhand, will have an open source driver once the spec is released.

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When is an OPEN door not a door? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:08 · Score: 0, Offtopic

When
It
Is
A J A R
Yeah for FLOSS by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:09 · Score: 0

Yeah for FLOSS; 5 years behind current stuff. Go, go, catch up!
1. Re: Yeah for FLOSS by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:16 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I'm not sure what you are getting at. The alternative is using closed source, which honestly is not a real alternative.
2. Re: Yeah for FLOSS by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  Not a real alternative how? Tons of us are using that with zero complaints...
3. Re: Yeah for FLOSS by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 01:18 · Score: 0
  
  And for tons of us that isn't an option.
4. Re: Yeah for FLOSS by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 02:26 · Score: 0
  
  Tons of us are using that closed source with non-zero complaints!
5. Re: Yeah for FLOSS by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 12:15 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not sure what you are getting at. The alternative is using closed source, which honestly is not a real alternative.
  Actually in most cases it is superior. Open source is almost always the inferior alternative when you're choosing an OpenGL implementation. This isn't a problem with the open source philosophy, just the quality and capabilities of the software itself, much of which is to do with the lack of resources.
Open Wide and say Ah. by goombah99 · 2015-09-12 07:12 · Score: 0

So I take it that OpenGL is not actually Open Source. So what's the Open part mean in this case?

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
1. Re:Open Wide and say Ah. by kthreadd · 2015-09-12 07:20 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  OpenGL is a specification, not source code. It's a document that describes a number of interfaces that an OpenGL implementation should implement. OpenGL is also quite old and stems from the early 90s, long before open source was even termed. Open simply means that the specification is open, as in anyone can read the specification and create his or her own implementation.
2. Re:Open Wide and say Ah. by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 23:11 · Score: 0
  
  Something way more important, open specification.
  It contains all you need to make your own implementation if you aren't satisfied with the current one.
  Source code can have bugs, comments can be incorrect, having the source doesn't help you much unless you know what the function is supposed to be.
  OpenGL tells you that.
Can I jump ship yet? by RenHoek · 2015-09-12 07:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

I hate that Linux has such bad graphical card support. Games are the only thing that are keeping me on the Windows platform. I think it really is the only thing that is keeping the world from a "Linux on the desktop" utopia.
1. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by phantomfive · 2015-09-12 07:28 · Score: 1
  
  I think [gaming] really is the only thing that is keeping the world from a "Linux on the desktop" utopia.
  And Excel, and Photoshop, and plenty of other Windows-specific software (of which games are a small subset, but one which you happen to be in).
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
2. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:42 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Thankfully you can simply use those in a VM, with SMB between the host and guest (or USB passthrough, raw formatted image file, ISO etc.) for file transfer, assuming you don't use VirtualBox which has a guest agent where you can just copy paste between them.
  Harder is anything that needs 3D acceleration, in which case your best bet is VT-D or AMD-V with PCI Passthrough on a secondary video card, also playable with games and about 10% performance loss.
  Then again, it's just less hassle to dual boot.
3. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by tom229 · 2015-09-12 07:42 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  In all these cases I find it frustrating that gnu/Linux bears the blame. Microsoft office, Adobe products, video games, and major video cards software drivers are all 3rd party software products made by 3rd party companies that choose not to support Linux. There might be very good reasons why Photoshop doesn't have a Linux version and why most games use direct x, but given the direction Microsoft has taken lately all parties concerned should reevaluate whether this is still a prudent direction to take.
  
  --
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
4. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by RenHoek · 2015-09-12 07:45 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I understand the importance of having office applications but like how porn pushes technological advances, I think that gaming pushes the desktop.
  Having a Linux desktop at work will not make the average user install Linux at home. The other way around, maybe...
5. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Fragnet · 2015-09-12 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  Not yet. Wait about 18 months. Vulkan will be released towards the end of this year and developers will then need a while to get their heads around it. Vulkan will be a 1st class citizen on Linux, Android, Windows, et al (Apple seem to want to stick with Metal, Microsoft will stick with DX12 of course).
6. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by phantomfive · 2015-09-12 08:04 · Score: 2
  
  with SMB between the host and guest
  
  FYI VMWare lets you set up a shared directory between host and client, and I believe Virtualbox does too. No need for trickery.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
7. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 08:08 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  If you switch to Linux full-time you'll find a lot more to hate.
8. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by jones_supa · 2015-09-12 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  Meeh. I bet that Vulkan's Linux implementation will be delayed year after year, just like Wayland is. Open source just doesn't have the funding and manpower to deliver these kind of extremely complex things quickly.
9. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  > There might be very good reasons why Photoshop doesn't have a Linux version
  Photoshop is known to crash horribly on case-sensitive filesystems on OS X. All filesystems on Linux are case-sensitive by default.
10. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  Smb is a share
11. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 09:36 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Have you looked at steam? You might be surprised at the number of proprietary games available for Linux.
  Also, you should look be looking at this site as well.
  I don't know about bad recent graphical support. I can tell you that I've been happy with the FOSS OpenGL support by Intel and AMD for the past 11 years. The only consistent issue I ever had was with NVidia's proprietary drivers that chained me to a specific linux kernel and even then would still cause kernel panics. I threw out my last NVidia card 6 years ago and never looked back.
12. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by LesFerg · 2015-09-12 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  I hate that Linux has such bad graphical card support. Games are the only thing that are keeping me on the Windows platform. I think it really is the only thing that is keeping the world from a "Linux on the desktop" utopia.
  Please don't copy-and-paste from 10 year old slashdot comments.
  
  --
  If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
13. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 10:20 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, you can jump ship now. If you have a massive catalog of Steam games, you will be quite surprised at how many run on Linux natively. I made the switch to Linux on the family PC, and 65% of my existing Steam games run flawlessly (much better than on Windows), without even reporting to using WINE.
14. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 10:24 · Score: 0
  
  It's great to have choices but a double-edged sword with platform availability, open/closed source methodology, availability timeframes, and developer mindshare. In the gaming world it's increasingly boiling down to a handful of game engines that abstract a lot of stuff for you. This can be great from a development point of view, with r&d, optimisation, testing, compatibility and everything inbetween largely taken care of, but it often homogenises the strengths of each of the underlying api's as exposed to the developer.
  As much as we'd like to write our own stuff all the time, it's just not practical to if we want to compete as a business doing games, installations, and other interactive media work. For us I t's better (most of the time) to focus on the problem solving at the project level, not the underlying engine level.
15. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by nashv · 2015-09-12 10:48 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that for the average user, there are plenty of reasons (like you just mentioned) to use Windows.
  There is only one reason why anyone really uses Linux - free as in beer.
  Tell me one thing that only runs on Linux and not Windows? Yeah. That's why people are on Windows.
  
  --
  Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
16. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 11:21 · Score: 0
  
  Average users have no reasons, they just use what's been given to them. Put Linux on all laptops out of the factory and they will use Linux.
17. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by MyAlternateID · 2015-09-12 11:29 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  There is only one reason why anyone really uses Linux - free as in beer.
  Speak for yourself, please. I've been using Linux since the mid 1990s. I genuinely prefer it. I like the neatness of a proper package manager. I like the *nix way of doing things. I like not having a Registry, and not worrying about my OS phoning home. I like the rock-solid stability that Windows has only recently started to acquire. I like not having to reboot for any reason at all other than a new kernel (and even then there is a way around it). I like not having to run virus/malware scanners. I like being able to make a copy of my /home directory to backup (or transfer) all of my settings, bookmarks, documents, etc -- ever try that on a Windows system? I like having multiple different interoperable GUIs from which I can choose, and the ability to customize each. I like that the few times I had a question about a program, I was able to effortlessly directly contact the author/maintainer and not some front-line scripted tech support. I like open standards and interoperability among diverse systems with no vendor lock-in. I like iptables and lots of other functionality that's built-in to standard Linux distros but requires third-party (and sometimes commercial) software for Windows. I like that the system doesn't assume I'm a moron who might get confused by meaningful error messages and advanced options. I like having the option to use a source-based distro with all the flexibility that brings; though of course that's not for everyone, it's great for me (I may one day decide to use systemd, but no one is pressuring me to do so). I like the general transparency, that there are no hinderances trying to stop me from peeking under the hood if I should get curious about exactly how something works. I like all the options I have to harden the kernel and userland against security threats, some of which depend on the ability to compile from source.
  
  The few Windows-only programs I want to run have worked for me in Wine. I know that not everyone can say that, but for me this works and it works well.
  
  I ran Linux for a long time now. That's not because I had no access to Windows. Some of my newer hardware came with Windows licenses. I'm not using Linux because I can't legitimately obtain Windows. I'm using Linux because I genuinely prefer it. While I may be a minority of all computer users, I am by no means the only one. So like I said, please speak for yourself.
18. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 11:56 · Score: 0
  
  Wine for one. Some games that are newer then what Dosbox runs but recent windows versions won't run anymore. Sometimes you can find user fixes or buy it again on gog but often wine just works.
19. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Kjella · 2015-09-12 12:18 · Score: 1
  
  Meeh. I bet that Vulkan's Linux implementation will be delayed year after year, just like Wayland is. Open source just doesn't have the funding and manpower to deliver these kind of extremely complex things quickly.
  Actually Vulkan is moving most of that complexity out of the driver and into the hands of the engine developers. Unlike a couple decades ago, the market is now dominated by a few big engines like Unity, Unreal Engine and CryEngine who have the skills and funding to write low-level optimizations for broad classes of games, while creating your own engine from DirectX/OpenGL is more and more daunting. I'm not really sure you can call it a win for open source as it means more of the stack will be proprietary, but at least you'll have OS agnostic engine developers take over the role Microsoft has played with DirectX.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
20. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Fragnet · 2015-09-12 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  There will be an implementation on Linux at release for certain. Valve have been working with it.
21. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 12:35 · Score: 0
  
  If you switch to Windows 10 full-time you'll find a lot more to hate.
22. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by MyAlternateID · 2015-09-12 12:44 · Score: 1
  
  > There might be very good reasons why Photoshop doesn't have a Linux version
  Photoshop is known to crash horribly on case-sensitive filesystems on OS X. All filesystems on Linux are case-sensitive by default.
  That doesn't qualify as a "good" reason. That qualifies as "an easily foreseeable and preventable" reason.
23. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Kjella · 2015-09-12 12:55 · Score: 1
  
  Having a Linux desktop at work will not make the average user install Linux at home. The other way around, maybe.
  Linux at work = internal and external support = time and money = bugfixes and enhancements = stability and progress. The average home user won't contribute much to the development process, they won't pay. They won't code. They don't write good bug reports, in fact they rather want solutions instead of questions. It's highly unlikely it becomes important enough for someone to look at. But if a hundred employees have a problem, usually someone with the skills needed will look at it to find a solution. Companies will concentrate that little itch each employee has enough that one person in IT can justify spending time on it. And that is exactly the kind of pebbles that need to start rolling to turn it into a landslide. Nobody sees any direct profit from replacing a Windows sale with a Linux sale, the economic incentives aren't very strong. Of course there are other reasons to work on open source, but most of those are already present and they don't seem to do the trick.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
24. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by fragMasterFlash · 2015-09-12 13:05 · Score: 1
  
  Put Linux on all laptops out of the factory and they will use Linux.
  That has been tried and it failed miserably
25. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Kjella · 2015-09-12 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  I hate that Linux has such bad graphical card support. Games are the only thing that are keeping me on the Windows platform. I think it really is the only thing that is keeping the world from a "Linux on the desktop" utopia.
  Please don't copy-and-paste from 10 year old slashdot comments.
  Well, what has changed really? Most AAA games didn't run on Linux 10 years ago and they still don't. For example I played CoH2 with friends tonight, it's garbage under WINE. GTA V is the same. Granted, many more games do work but if you're a gamer and/or you want to play the same games as your friends there will almost certainly be some games that don't work for you. If you don't have any other particular requirements, why wouldn't games be the only blocker? It was the one thing that kept me running a Windows box and I see it still would be if I was still on Linux. Of course Mesa following the latest OpenGL standards wouldn't magically make WINE work or port DirectX games to OpenGL, but it would be one less hurdle.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
26. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 14:12 · Score: 0
  
  Tell me one thing that only runs on Linux and not Windows? Yeah. That's why people are on Windows.
  GTA4 apparently, which runs without problem in Wine, but refuses to run in Win8 or newer.
  On the business side of things at my job, getting various computation packages to work on Linux is straight forward because it will automatically setup clean environments with all the dependencies, sometimes with multiple setups in parallel. The same packages turn into nightmares on Windows if they require anything that cygwin can't provide easily. It is not fun when a collaborator on a project sent a python script to the team, and finding out the Windows and often Mac people complain about spending hours to get dependencies to compile and fail obscurely while the Linux people had it working in 1-2 minutes.
27. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by nnull · 2015-09-12 14:18 · Score: 1
  
  VMWare solves all this for me. All the software that are Windows specific run just fine in VMware while I can enjoy my linux desktop. As for games, well, quite a bit of games that I like now work on linux thanks to Steam.
28. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by nnull · 2015-09-12 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  Civilization V, Witcher 2, Cities Skylines, Left 4 Dead 2, Counter Strike, Team Fortress 2, War Thunder, Borderlands 2, Middle-Earth Shadow of Mordor (I was surprised with this one)... The list keeps growing lately. What was that about AAA games not being on linux? Granted, not all the popular games are on linux, but quite a bit of them are already.
29. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by cyber-vandal · 2015-09-12 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  Until they try to install some Windows-only software such as Photoshop or World of Warcraft or try to use any of the many devices that either don't have Linux support or the support isn't as good as the Windows version such as graphics cards.
  I used to use Linux as a primary desktop but it's not practical nowadays. There's too much time spent fucking about with holy wars and not enough time fixing shit.
30. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 15:40 · Score: 0
  
  GTA 4 runs just fine on Windows 8+ if you just set compatibility mode to Windows 7. Takes all of 5 seconds.
31. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 17:29 · Score: 0
  
  Your collaborator needs to learn to write portable code. Python makes it easy.
  Nothing wrong with any of the OSes.
32. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by vux984 · 2015-09-12 18:53 · Score: 1
  
  VMWare solves all this for me.
  What problem exactly does it solve?
  You still pay for windows, and you still run windows. You still have windows updates. You still have windows malware to contend with. You have all the advantages and disadvantages of windows.
  What do you gain. Support for linux only apps?
33. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by serviscope_minor · 2015-09-12 19:50 · Score: 1
  
  There is only one reason why anyone really uses Linux - free as in beer.
  That's absolute rubbish. If it were the case then no one would use Linux on a laptop because they almost come with Windows preinstalled. The fact that people do run Linux when they have already paid for a copy of Windows absolutely proves your statement false.
  I know that facts and reasoning won't change your mind, but I might convince someone else reading this.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
34. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by nashv · 2015-09-12 21:11 · Score: 0
  
  Like I said , 'the average user'. I assure you, you iptable-loving, kernel hardening, error-message-reading nerd, you are not the average user.
  
  --
  Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
35. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by nashv · 2015-09-12 21:12 · Score: 1
  
  You do know you are talking of a minority who does that. I do it too - install linux immediately while having Windows licenses. But 99% do not.
  
  --
  Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
36. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by mister_playboy · 2015-09-12 21:19 · Score: 1
  
  NTFS is case-sensitive, it's just that Windows chooses to ignore it.
  This point is important to keep in mind when working with NTFS volumes under Linux, where all NTFS-legal filenames are allowed and usable rather than just the smaller subset that are Windows-legal.
  
  --
  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
37. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by mister_playboy · 2015-09-12 21:42 · Score: 1
  
  You still have windows updates. You still have windows malware to contend with.
  If the software doesn't need net access, the VM doesn't have to be given it, which completely solves these two issues.
  
  --
  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
38. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by jones_supa · 2015-09-12 21:55 · Score: 1
  
  Sure, and my uncle is Santa Claus.
39. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 23:08 · Score: 0
  
  The Linux community SHOULD bear the blame. They haven't done anything to entice those people to bring their products to the platform.
  Where are the talks and deals that the Linux community SHOULD be striking up with those respective companies? Why hasn't the Linux community lifted a damn finger to team up with them?
40. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by Fragnet · 2015-09-12 23:44 · Score: 1
  
  Google are working on an Android version, LunarG demonstrated a Linux version earlier this year (on Intel HD graphics). As it's far simpler from a driver perspective, it won't require a huge investment from the big two either (AMD, NVIDIA) so I expect they'll support it.
41. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 00:30 · Score: 0
  
  Talking about "trickery". VMWare documentation:
  
  Caution: Do not open a file in a shared folder from more than one application at a time. ... doing so could cause data corruption in the file.
42. Re: Can I jump ship yet? by jones_supa · 2015-09-13 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well, we'll see then. :)
43. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by MyAlternateID · 2015-09-13 03:46 · Score: 1, Flamebait
  
  Like I said , 'the average user'. I assure you, you iptable-loving, kernel hardening, error-message-reading nerd, you are not the average user.
  Geek, actually. Next time, learn to say what you mean. "Anyone" != "the average user". You made a few statements. What you said, in that statement to which I replied, was "anyone". It just can't be so difficult to understand that.
44. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by serviscope_minor · 2015-09-13 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  Wow your reply makes no sense in the context of the thread. Either that or you've moved the goal posts so far you're now on a cricket pitch.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
45. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 07:14 · Score: 0
  
  Learn English. You are not anyone.
46. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 12:29 · Score: 0
  
  Average users have no reasons, they just use what's been given to them.
  No this has become the new excuse. It started off that the Linux desktop failures were all Microsoft's fault, then Microsoft realized Linux wasn't a threat on the desktop and it still failed. So then it was the lack of support from hardware vendors, after a time much common hardware was supported at least at some level and still it failed. So then it was blaming the users' laziness in terms of installing the OS, so out came LiveCDs, LiveUSBs and bootable one-click installers and still it failed. Then there was a short-lived attempt to blame secureboot but most people saw through that one. Now it is just blaming the users' lack of need to change operating systems, apparently everybody just uses a web browser and they don't switch to Linux because they again just lazy.
  The Linux community will never blame itself for its failures and that is why it continues with decades of failure on the desktop. Start acknowledging that people use their computers for professional and hobbyist tasks that include (but are not limited to) image editing, audio & video recording and production, CAD, CAM, CAE, simulation, graphic design, product design, visualization, architectural design, drafting (piping, electrical, structural, etc), etc etc. Linux is not a solution for such people, using it in these cases is a net loss in productivity. Even if people just needed a web browser they wouldnt need Linux.
  I'm not saying Linux is bad, it isn't. It just doesn't serve the needs of the vast majority of desktop users.
  
  Put Linux on all laptops out of the factory and they will use Linux.
  This has been tried plenty of times from the biggest OEMs and even at big box vendors, the customer response was a resounding "do not want".
47. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by exomondo · 2015-09-13 12:32 · Score: 1
  
  "Anyone" != "the average user".
  "Anyone" is a generalization, used in this case to apply to 97-98% of computer users. So fairly accurate.
48. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by tom229 · 2015-09-13 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  Because, as you've alluded to yourself, gnu/Linux is not a for profit entity; it is a community. It is countless individuals, for profit companies, and non-profit companies together working on countless pieces of software that fit together. Furthermore, back-alley deals and software designed to lock you into an ecosystem is not a natural part of any collaborative system. Collaboration encourages open standards and guidelines that all developers can use. Is this counter intuitive for a pro profit business? I don't think so. It's definitely counter intuitive to short term profit motivated ideals driven by greed; but I think (and hope) that most industry is starting to realize that that mentality benefits no one in the long term, even the greediest that it's supposed to benefit.
  
  --
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
49. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by exomondo · 2015-09-13 12:50 · Score: 1
  
  In all these cases I find it frustrating that gnu/Linux bears the blame. Microsoft office, Adobe products, video games, and major video cards software drivers are all 3rd party software products made by 3rd party companies that choose not to support Linux.
  Why would they invest in supporting it? Most of their users aren't bothered about what the underlying operating system is, they just want to run those applications.
50. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by tom229 · 2015-09-13 14:24 · Score: 1
  
  Very true. But that is a short sighted approach, and therein lies the why you are looking for. Game devs, hardware vendors, and most general software developers have all their eggs in the Microsoft basket. Microsoft has long released a product that runs slower, takes more of your system resources, and now also spies on you and forces you to use a terrible user interface.
  
  The first rule of any investment is not to put all your eggs in one basket. Gnu/Linux by design does not operate as a single basket but rather an open standard that gives you a choice of basket. Most healthy industries dealing with complex technology operate with open standards precisely because of this problem. Software has always been the, to put it bluntly, naive exception.
  
  --
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
51. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by exomondo · 2015-09-13 15:32 · Score: 1
  
  But that is a short sighted approach, and therein lies the why you are looking for.
  The desktop has been ruled by Windows for decades and it doesn't show any signs of changing, however many developers have also invested in the second-biggest player in the market: Apple. Using cross-platform/portable technologies is always a good idea, but there's still little reason to actually support Linux.
  
  Game devs, hardware vendors, and most general software developers have all their eggs in the Microsoft basket.
  No, a great many support OS X as well and often use cross-platform frameworks like Qt that run on GNU/Linux but there is still no reason to target and support GNU/Linux.
  
  Microsoft has long released a product that runs slower, takes more of your system resources
  Wrong, it has become faster and using less resources over time, the current version is less resource hungry than the version that preceded it and that was faster than the one that preceded that.
  
  and now also spies on you
  You can actually turn off all that, plenty of guides on the net if you struggle with the privacy settings dialog.
  
  and forces you to use a terrible user interface.
  Could you explain the differences of the "terrible user interface" with regard to somebody using, say Photoshop? Because all the applications I have used on Windows 10 don't look any different than they did on any version that preceded it.
  
  Gnu/Linux by design does not operate as a single basket but rather an open standard that gives you a choice of basket.
  Given this whole "systemd" debacle it would seem that GNU/Linux is fundamentally dependent on RedHat and that creating/maintaining your own distribution outside of that channel is impractical.
52. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 16:54 · Score: 0
  
  Because, as you've alluded to yourself, gnu/Linux is not a for profit entity; it is a community.
  A community that cannot be counted on to produce innovation. It is always just a slow follower, we just end up with half-assed attempts to copy proprietary products that result in late to the market, also-ran garbage. The exception to this is GNU/Linux, but it was still a UNIX clone. Had StarOffice, Sun's attempt at a viable competitor to MS Office, not gone belly-up we wouldn't even have a FOSS office suite.
  FOSS failed to innovate on the desktop, mobile, tablet, wearable, VR, AR, spaces. It failed to innovate in any major application category be that audio, video, imagery, CAD, CAM, CAE, sim, architectural, viz, etc.
  The uninspired results speak for themselves and the marketshare of GNU/Linux on the desktop is a reflection of this lack of innovation.
53. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by vux984 · 2015-09-14 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  If the software doesn't need net access
  True, but that's a pretty big "if".
54. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by tom229 · 2015-09-14 06:51 · Score: 1
  
  None of your arguments are valid, but I see little point in picking your argument apart line by line; You have clearly made up your mind.
  
  --
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
55. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by exomondo · 2015-09-14 10:42 · Score: 1
  
  None of your arguments are valid
  Don't be an idiot, of course they are. I disproved your claims and I even provided citation. I asked you to back up your claims (specifically the user interface problems) to better understand your perspective but it seems you haven't actually thought about any of this.
  
  but I see little point in picking your argument apart line by line
  Actually that is what I did to your argument in order to disprove it. I've addressed your concerns re: Windows 10, explained that developers don't have their "eggs all in one basket" and questioned why you think this user interface has an impact on application usage.
  
  You have clearly made up your mind.
  Actually no, it's not just me, it's the entire industry that agrees with me. You disagree and you aren't capable of disproving what I have written because it is fact. There is no reason GNU/Linux could not disrupt the market but it needs a disruptive feature to do so, not just to be the fallback option in case Windows and OS X got to shit and can no longer run applications.
56. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by tom229 · 2015-09-15 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  Actually that is what I did to your argument in order to disprove it.
  I know. I was being ironic. Your "argument" style is to quote snippets and attack them. It's a preferred method for argumentative tops because it allows them to create a strawman. And more than that I'm not interested in arguing with someone, particularly someone that has clearly already made up their mind; I'm interested in rational objective discourse. Take that as a victory if you like. However, to be clear, you can't prove me wrong in a subjective discussion, and you've done nothing to show me you've even considered what I've said. Tldr; go back to reddit if you want to argue inane paltry points of view all day.
  
  --
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
57. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by exomondo · 2015-09-15 11:17 · Score: 1
  
  I know. I was being ironic. Your "argument" style is to quote snippets and attack them.
  No it was quoting your points and rebutting them with facts, sorry but you're wrong.
  
  It's a preferred method for argumentative tops because it allows them to create a strawman.
  Except there is no strawman (are you saying this because you don't know what "starwman" means?) they are facts that disprove your argument.
  
  And more than that I'm not interested in arguing with someone, particularly someone that has clearly already made up their mind; I'm interested in rational objective discourse.
  Absolute garbage, for one you've replied after you've already said you are not interested and secondly your argument is purely emotional which is why it was so easy for me to disprove it with facts. It may be your opinion - for example - that Windows has become slower and more resource hungry but it is a fact that you are wrong.
  
  However, to be clear, you can't prove me wrong in a subjective discussion
  Actually it is not a subjective discussion at all, hence the reason I was able to disprove what you wrote with objective facts.
  
  and you've done nothing to show me you've even considered what I've said.
  Wrong again, go back and read it. If you refuse to be educated then that is your failing.
  See it's not that I have made up my mind, it is that the population as a whole has done so and agreed with me. I think it would be great if GNU/Linux were a viable alternative on the desktop but it needs to offer something innovative and disruptive. You have proven yet again that you fools just stick your ignorant heads in the sand and pretend your distorted world view is representative of reality, which is why it goes nowhere. And yes, that is sad.
58. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by tom229 · 2015-09-16 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  Is there really no option to block people on slashdot?
  
  --
  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
59. Re:Can I jump ship yet? by exomondo · 2015-09-16 17:09 · Score: 1
  
  Unlike you, most people are happy to either substantiate their arguments with facts or admit that they were wrong, not whine when the facts don't align with their argument. Though you've now proven you're too much of a simpleton to hit the little X on the notification so I shouldn't really expect rational thought from you.
Software using OpenGL by short · 2015-09-12 07:27 · Score: 0

Sorry for that obvious question but is there left any software still using OpenGL? :-) (mesa demos do not count)
1. Re:Software using OpenGL by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:36 · Score: 0
  
  GNOME
2. Re:Software using OpenGL by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:42 · Score: 0
  
  Wallstreet
3. Re:Software using OpenGL by jones_supa · 2015-09-12 08:14 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, like all 3D games for Linux and Mac.
4. Re:Software using OpenGL by hitchhacker · 2015-09-12 08:43 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Sorry for that obvious question but is there left any software still using OpenGL? :-) (mesa demos do not count)
  The first things that come to mind would be any hardware accelerated 3D graphics not targeting a Microsoft-only platform. Any software or games that are compiled against D3D and run through Wine are implicitly using OpenGL. All iphone and android apps are using OpenGL. Scientific visualization applications are most likely using OpenGL along with any other industry that goes back to the early 90's or before. I don't see a whole lot wrong with OpenGL for my needs, and Vulkan doesn't seem to add a whole lot that I can't do already though it is apparently necessary for pushing the envelope wrt next generation game engines. -metric
5. Re:Software using OpenGL by samkass · 2015-09-12 14:26 · Score: 1
  
  All iphone and android apps are using OpenGL.
  Perhaps Android, but an increasing number of iPhone apps are using Metal (often indirectly by using a supporting engine modified for it).
  
  --
  E pluribus unum
6. Re:Software using OpenGL by sad_ · 2015-09-13 22:36 · Score: 1
  
  Since DirectX only runs on windows, what do you thing all other platforms are using (consoles, mobiles, ...)?
  
  --
  On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
7. Re:Software using OpenGL by hitchhacker · 2015-09-14 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  I believe you meant to reply to the post above me? I was arguing the same thing as you. Development for the Playstation, apparently can use either their own GCM library or an OpenGL ES compatible api called psGL... so that would be another exception in addition to Apple's Metal api.
  
  -metric
Cool but... by Fragnet · 2015-09-12 07:28 · Score: 1

When Vulkan is released expect OpenGL 4.0 to fall off a cliff somewhere.
1. Re:Cool but... by Eravnrekaree · 2015-09-12 16:17 · Score: 1
  
  Vulkan is not a replacement for OpenGL, by its own admission.
2. Re:Cool but... by Fragnet · 2015-09-12 23:41 · Score: 1
  
  I know, people keep saying that. The trouble is the cost of development and maintenance of OpenGL 4.0 from the hardware manufacturer perspective will mean it'll eventually wither on the vine. There will still be a lot of hardware out there (and software) using OpenGL of course. I'm still maintaining a product that uses OpenGL 2.0 (15 years old).
  
  When you look at mobile particularly, where using something like Vulkan could substantially increase battery life - assuming you don't make it work twice as hard in the process, it's very hard to see anyone still using OpenGL in 5 years time.
3. Re:Cool but... by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-13 13:37 · Score: 0
  
  yes it is. What is it for then if it isnt a replacement?
  Just let go of this ancient trash already and accept the future
In practical hardware terms? by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:38 · Score: 0

What does this mean in practical hardware terms? If I'm in the market for accelerated 3D graphics for, say, FlightGear, what hardware and drivers play nice with this new OpenGL library?
1. Re:In practical hardware terms? by jones_supa · 2015-09-12 08:15 · Score: 2
  
  Check the Mesamatrix link in the summary.
Lame by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 07:41 · Score: 0

DirectX went to 11 six years ago.
It probably doesn't even have wireless.
I'm allergic to Excel, by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 19:13 · Score: 0

and Photoshop gives me a mild rash. Nuts, gluten and lactose are OK, though.
fragMasterFlash = shilly-shill shill by Anonymous Coward · 2015-09-12 21:10 · Score: 0

Microsoft sponsored FUD.