Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

DNA From Neanderthal Relative May Shake Up Human Family Tree

Posted by Soulskill on from the skeletons-in-the-closet dept.

sciencehabit writes: In a remarkable technical feat, researchers have sequenced DNA from fossils in Spain that are about 300,000 to 400,000 years old and have found an ancestor—or close relative—of Neanderthals. The nuclear DNA, which is the oldest ever sequenced from a member of the human family, may push back the date for the origins of the distinct ancestors of Neanderthals and modern humans.

61 comments

  1. Push it back to what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    6015 years?

  2. Prepare to hear the outcome! by Kohath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Prepare yourself to one day anticipate a conclusion that might be mildly interesting.

    Thanks Slashdot! But why didn't you post a story warning us we might someday see this story (about what we might someday know -- about some stuff that happened a million years ago)?

    1. Re:Prepare to hear the outcome! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Funny

      Prepare yourself to one day anticipate a conclusion that might be mildly interesting.

      Thanks Slashdot! But why didn't you post a story warning us we might someday see this story (about what we might someday know -- about some stuff that happened a million years ago)?

      I think Slashdot itself is pretty good evidence that we have evolved a lot slower than we like to think.

    2. Re:Prepare to hear the outcome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think Slashdot itself is pretty good evidence that dudes are evolving into Slashdot gals a lot faster than we like to think.

    3. Re:Prepare to hear the outcome! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 0

      I think you (despite hiding behind AC we know who you are), are quite excellent evidence of my thesis.

    4. Re:Prepare to hear the outcome! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that like "incontrovertible evidence" for your "thesis" that some are evolving slower than we like to think? Do you fancy yourself part of a faster-evolving "master race"?

    5. Re:Prepare to hear the outcome! by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

      This science is very relevant to Slashdotees given so many are IT people who could benefit from a greater understanding of the origins of Project Managers.

  3. Interesting science by CaptQuark · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is a great breakthrough in analyzing ancient human origins. It would be interesting to use this technique to gain more insight on the origins and migration patterns of early north and south american populations. The Bearing Sea land bridge and south american sea voyage origins are still very confusing and incomplete.

    --

    1. Re:Interesting science by meadow · · Score: 0

      This is a great breakthrough in analyzing ancient human origins. It would be interesting to use this technique to gain more insight on the origins and migration patterns of early north and south american populations. The Bearing Sea land bridge and south american sea voyage origins are still very confusing and incomplete.

      This guy speaks at length about genetic patterns related to migrations into the Americas in some of his lectures.

    2. Re:Interesting science by Sique · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about the Bering sea? It was named for the danish explorer Vitus Bering.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:Interesting science by gtall · · Score: 2

      No, at that time there was a sea of ball bearings between Siberia and N. America. That enabled the fast immigration to N. America, they were able to use skateboards with no wheels and sails like a wind surfer. Scott Walker has proposed a very tall wall to prevent this sort of thing happening again, at least for the lower 48.

    4. Re:Interesting science by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      The Bearing Sea land bridge --

      It never was used because of a lack of adequate lubrication.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Interesting science by CaptQuark · · Score: 1

      Oops. I blame autocorrect. Or a programmers typical bad spelling. It is a cliché for a reason.

    6. Re:Interesting science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are very confusing because they are very late and irrelevant. (what about **new** human origins? oops, sorry).

    7. Re:Interesting science by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to use this technique to gain more insight on the origins and migration patterns of early north and south american populations.

      Just send the samples to Svante's Lab, and we'll get the results.

      What? Finding appropriate samples in good enough conditions is the hard part? And that's what is holding thing up?

      Who'da thunk it?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. Will it explain by Barsteward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Donald Trumps hair?

    --
    "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    1. Re:Will it explain by gtall · · Score: 3, Funny

      Harummph...you could have the Grand Unified Theory of Everything and it still would not explain Donald Trump's hair. My own belief is that it is actually a mutant racoon who whispers stupid nothings into Donald's ear and hence we get his mediagasms.

    2. Re:Will it explain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to invoke quantum physics to explain Trumps hair. It is essentially a superposition of hair.

    3. Re:Will it explain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhhh Stop observing it.

      You'll collapse it's awful waveform!

    4. Re:Will it explain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The **GUTE** does explain Trump s hair, but not in two words after one article. Indeed.

  5. Dont shake too hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There may be another Bush in there...

    1. Re:Dont shake too hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      There may be another Bush in there...

      Impossible, those neanderthal guys were resourceful and intelligent.

    2. Re:Dont shake too hard... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pfft. Yeah, but could they overarm throw? Or survive the golgafrinchams?!

      Deal with it you sons of telephone sanitizers!

  6. Interesting discovery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This also follows the discovery that peoples of the Amazonia might have had interaction with Africans from a very early period - even pre-dating European contact.

  7. Evolution is just like global warming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Data and theories keep changing. This isn't science. It's only science when you can test, predict and give easy to understand incontestable answers that don't change. These scientists are just after more of the money they are wallowing in.

    1. Re:Evolution is just like global warming by belthize · · Score: 1

      See this is the problem with always using 'anonymous coward'. We need to mix it up and add anonymous idiot, unidentified twit, mysterious prat and others to more accurately describe the poster.

    2. Re:Evolution is just like global warming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See this is the problem with always using 'anonymous coward'. We need to mix it up and add anonymous idiot, unidentified twit, mysterious prat and others to more accurately describe the poster.

      My impression was that the post you are replying to has an implied /s tag.

    3. Re:Evolution is just like global warming by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      See this is the problem with always using 'anonymous coward'. We need to mix it up and add anonymous idiot, unidentified twit, mysterious prat and others to more accurately describe the poster.

      My impression was that the post you are replying to has an implied /s tag.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    4. Re:Evolution is just like global warming by slavdude · · Score: 1

      These scientists are just after more of the money they are wallowing in.

      Oh sure, that's the only reason anyone ever does anything. So where's the money coming from? Do you have any evidence that scientists are rich, other than the data in your rectal database? It also appears that you do not understand the scientific method. All knowledge is provisional. The only exception seems to be faith-based "knowledge", which is by nature untestable.

  8. Very cool research by meadow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is some of the coolest scientific research being conducted in the world. A new record for the oldest sequenced human-lineage DNA.

    1. Re:Very cool research by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you're interested, Svante Paablo (Nice work with that Unicode, Slashdot) has a book about the science (and engineering) of paleo DNA sequencing. Pretty amazing hard core work.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Very cool research by dwpro · · Score: 1

      I second the recommendation. Svante tells a great story as well so it's an interesting read

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    3. Re:Very cool research by meadow · · Score: 1

      Thank you both. I love this stuff. We need more researchers like this coming and telling people in the world about what they are doing. Too many people in society are just totally disconnected and disengaged from the fascination of science. It breaks my heart every time there's some stupid Super Bowl or other event and half the town is getting drunk and freaking out, yet when Curiosity landed on Mars the city was silent.

    4. Re:Very cool research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Svante Paablo (Nice work with that Unicode, Slashdot)

      Svante Pääbo
      Looks good in preview... now I'm curious

  9. Honest question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, if there's modern homo sapiens (black people) and there's modern homo sapiens crossed with neanderthals (europeans) and there's modern homo sapiens crossed with Neanderthals cousins (Denisovins) and out of those three basic groupings the ones that are homo sapiens crossed with neanderthals (or cousins) are the smarter ones.....question is...

    Are the original strain (africans) just plain not as advanced as the hybrids ?

    1. Re:Honest question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Denisovins are Asians (obviously.)....

    2. Re:Honest question by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      So, if there's modern homo sapiens (black people) and there's modern homo sapiens crossed with neanderthals (europeans) and there's modern homo sapiens crossed with Neanderthals cousins (Denisovins) and out of those three basic groupings the ones that are homo sapiens crossed with neanderthals (or cousins) are the smarter ones.....question is...

      Are the original strain (africans) just plain not as advanced as the hybrids ?

      'Hybrid vigor'.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The downfall of 'master racism'. Racial purity is doom.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    3. Re: Honest question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original pure-strain Africans are probably less advanced than Human-Neanderthal hybrids... but today, even most *Africans* have some Neanderthal DNA (including close to 100% of people living in the western hemisphere of African descent). There's just a tiny area of remote central Africa where you can still find people with no trace whatsoever of Neanderthal DNA... and unsurprisingly, they live in grass huts & have no concept of industrialization, business, science, or introversion.

  10. But... the Science already knew everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    But... the Science already knew everything... How come?!

    1. Re:But... the Science already knew everything... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      did your TV religious evangelical tell you that? unfortunately, they have big problems with comprehension so don't trust them (or send them money)

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  11. Wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't the previous estimate of the time of Neanderthal emergence about 500k years ago? I guess a negative push is still a push. Discovery of a subspecies would be consistent of the previous estimate, though.

    1. Re:Wait by Calydor · · Score: 2

      That's not quite how it works.

      Species A doesn't suddenly become Species B on a given date; instead specific tribes of Species A may live in a climate where it gets increasingly cold, meaning only those hardiest to cold survive and over a long period of time become Species B. However, other tribes of Species A live where the climate remains warm, has no selection for hardiness against cold (perhaps even a selection against it if the heat easily exhausts them), and remains Species A even while Species B starts thriving.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Wait by rmdingler · · Score: 2
      Quite right. Individual stresses on early human populations would vary even relatively locally due to the limits of foot travel.

      Predation, disease, socialization skills, and even fertility would play a role in diversifying early tribal groups.

      It is correctly reported ubiquitously what the invention of mass travel has done for human populations, but from 5000-3000 BC, the domestication of the horse improved man's ability to move all out of previous proportion.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    3. Re:Wait by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Informative

      And to make it harder, the concept of a species is fluid and artificial. It's not like Homo Neanderthalis just popped up de novo. There were undoubtedly populations of mixed breeds, localized variants and quite possibly early politicians rummaging around the oyster middens. Our fossil record is incredibly incomplete so even small additions to the database are likely to change our views on things dramatically.

      Hopefully, as techniques improve we will be able to get more data from older fossils, fossils that are poorly preserved and fossils that are in collections where the curators haven't allowed for destructive sampling. The entire field has benefited enormously from pushing the sequencing technology forward.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:Wait by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      Advances in genetics are indeed milking the most data out of each new discovery.

      Interesting.^

      In the pursuit of convictions, and occasionally an exoneration, law enforcement has really helped advance some of this technology.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    5. Re:Wait by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      I thought species meant only (or mostly) being able to breed with itself?

    6. Re:Wait by Calydor · · Score: 1

      Horses, donkeys and zebras say hi.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    7. Re:Wait by swilly · · Score: 1

      My only problem with this is chromosome counts. Humans have 23 pairs (assuming a healthy individual). Most of the great apes have 24 pairs. Some monkeys hare more, but others have less. I don't know about Neanderthal and other Homo species, but I assume they also have 23 pairs. This means that some species jumps are discrete and not gradual. This means that there can be a single date where a new species appeared.

      And I've never heard a satisfactory explanation for how this discrete jump happens. Most changes to chromosome count result in sterile offspring. The explanations that I've heard either didn't make sense, or they were so filled with jargon that I couldn't understand them.

    8. Re:Wait by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Your problem is that thinking of chromosome counts as some absolute barrier. It isn't. You can indeed have successful breeding with different chromosome counts. So it is still gradual.

      Also, you mistake "most" for "all." Most means "not all." You could also take the opposite, and say "some. For example, "Some changes to chromosome count result in viable offspring."

    9. Re:Wait by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      That's not quite how it works.

      Species A doesn't suddenly become Species B on a given date; instead specific tribes of Species A may live in a climate where it gets increasingly cold, meaning only those hardiest to cold survive and over a long period of time become Species B. However, other tribes of Species A live where the climate remains warm, has no selection for hardiness against cold (perhaps even a selection against it if the heat easily exhausts them), and remains Species A even while Species B starts thriving.

      The funniest thing is that Darwins 'On the origin of species' never addresses the origin of species, never even touches on how species originate.

      Speciation events are still a mystery. Probably connected to the 'tree of life' being more of a digraph than a tree. Its a LOT harder to model evolution than Darwin ever thought.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    10. Re: Wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Leopards and jaguars are REALLY just "races" of "panther" -- one in each hemisphere. They'll readily interbreed in captivity unless zookeepers actively prevent them from mating.

      Leopards & jaguars can even interbreed successfully with cougars/pumas/mountain lions/Florida panthers. Google "pumapard".

    11. Re: Wait by Calydor · · Score: 1

      As well as ligers etc. The equines just came to mind first. You can point to wolves and dogs as well as a direct example of the next 'step' of evolution while the previous one still flourishes.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
  12. Beware by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Don't shake the human family tree, it's very old, it might topple.

    1. Re:Beware by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Don't shake the human family tree, it's very old, it might topple.

      And who knows what fruit will fall.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  13. What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if scientists found proof some races are more advanced than others, or predisposed to violence, they would never be allowed to publish it.

    All races are equal! And don't you dare say otherwise, despite the enormous amount of data to the contrary.

    1. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you mean there is an enormous mount of unpublished data, then?

    2. Re:What's the point? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      There is no such thing as advanced in evolution as if there is a goal. Evolution is about better fitting to the environment.

    3. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and, with a nearly endless series of adaptations that can make any given organism "fit" its environment better, and with a constantly changing environment, survival of the fittest is a tautology. There is no goal of evolution, that can be measured or delineated. its really the perfect principle to build a religion around, as its essentially infinite and all encompassing. aaaaaahhh (captcha: Imagine)

  14. IN OTHER NEWS... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'Email from Neanderthal Relative Goes Directly to Spam Folder'. Film at Eleven

  15. Neanderthals need an apology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Evil Satanic pedophilian, Nazi Communist loving human beings (both the nigger, cracker and red) variety systematically wiped out / raped / and exterminated the peaceful harmonious Neanderthal civilization and made them the but of all their jokes. Yes, every single human living today is alive because their parents were xenophobic genocidal spiciest. I demand that all humans apologize to these Neanderthals. I also demand you kill yourself, as you are unfit to live up to the glorious political ideals of inclusiveness and white guilt that modern media control complex is built on. Yes. Rather that feeling guilty just because you are white, you should feel guilty just because you are alive. By including black, and red peoples we can spread the guilt beyond the elite white segment of the population and include everyone in the hatred of themselves . I believe that this is what President Obama ran on. Well President Obama needs to live up to his campaign promise. Rather that calling Europe Europe; we need to find the Neanderthal word for Eurpope and call it that. It no one in the Obama administration speaks Neanderthal (which I highly doubt) we can just call Europe: Continent G. G is for the genocide that the evil humans inflicted on the Neanderthals.

  16. Another piece to the puzzle by Zeekort · · Score: 1

    A good find. Too bad they haven't found any dragon skeletons yet. May help explain how different civilizations around the world all have dragon myths and legends without having contact with each other. At least with this find out more about our own history.