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How To Find Out If GCHQ and the NSA Spied On You, and How To Complain

Posted by samzenpus on from the stop-looking-at-me dept.

Mark Wilson writes: Privacy International has created a platform through which individuals and organizations can file complaints with GCHQ about surveillance of phone calls and internet usage. The charity has long concerned itself with government surveillance, particularly the sharing of data between the NSA and GCHQ. The legality of mass surveillance has been questioned by many, and it has already been determined that human rights organization Amnesty International was illegally spied on. Edward Snowden's NSA revelations have led to a huge increase in awareness of privacy issues, and now Privacy International is making it easier to find out if you were spied on, and to lodge an official complaint.

79 comments

  1. I have a simpler approach... by DougOtto · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Have you used the internet or a phone in the last 10 years?"

    Congratulations, you've been illegally spied upon!

    --
    Solving Unix problems since 1989...
    1. Re:I have a simpler approach... by reboot246 · · Score: 2

      More like, are you alive? Then you've been spied on.

      You don't even have to use a phone or the internet. There are cameras everywhere!

    2. Re:I have a simpler approach... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's literally exactly what the page tells you.

    3. Re:I have a simpler approach... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      That's literally exactly what the page tells you.

      Sure you're right, but on a post with less than a hundred comments, it's statistically unlikely two people read the article.

      This would typically get an informative mod.. you know, for jumping on the grenade and saving the rest of us the trouble.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    4. Re:I have a simpler approach... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or walked down the street past the omnipresent cameras.
      Or traveled on most modern public transport systems (myki, oyster card, whatever your local system is called).
      Or used any form of bank card / credit card / store card / other card.
      Or bought a car/other big-ticket item that seems to require all of your details just to fill out the paperwork.
      Or...

    5. Re:I have a simpler approach... by jrumney · · Score: 2

      10 years? I first noticed that traceroute was showing my connections bouncing around half a dozen addresses in Cheltenham on their way from one part of London to another in 2000.

    6. Re:I have a simpler approach... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you haven't assumed room temperature, then you've spied on and even if you have assumed room temperature, you've probably been spied on and are being spied on now.

  2. Obvious consequence by rippeltippel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Q: Hey, did you spy on me?
    A: Nope. But thank you for asking, we'll start right away.

    1. Re:Obvious consequence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The people who want to know if they've been spied on likely have something to hide. This is a easy way to figure out who to concentrate on.

    2. Re:Obvious consequence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That reminds me of the Microsoft "let us guess your age based on your picture" web site. Suckers.

    3. Re:Obvious consequence by zenlessyank · · Score: 0

      +1

    4. Re:Obvious consequence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Q: I want to ask if you spied on me but I'm afraid if I ask you'll start spying on me.
      A: We are spying on you either way but feel free to be a coward. Makes our job easier.

    5. Re:Obvious consequence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not so sure. I'm sending in a request. Nothing I expect them to look at is secret or hidden. It's purely public information already out there (including email addresses). I'm doing it because I care about liberty and want to see what the results are. It'll do nothing but confirm, or it'll leave me doubting the results. Even if it confirms, I'll still likely doubt the completeness of the results.

    6. Re:Obvious consequence by DoctorBit · · Score: 1

      It's like the Streisand Effect.

    7. Re: Obvious consequence by ememisya · · Score: 2

      My advice to you is, "Don't." It's not just watching you that would irk the soul, it's what one can get away with outside the scope of reason. If I hired 5 people to take turns watching you 24/7 and tasked them to shoot your house with an ice pellet gun everytime you start reading a book, that can get pretty annoying after a few years. One could have a conversation about your day right beside you and you wouldn't ask because it would just be a couple of strangers talking amongst themselves. So yea, unless you got money and time to waste, it's not worth it, not going to make the world any better, just going to piss you off.

    8. Re:Obvious consequence by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      There's an old joke that if you ask the FBI if they keep a file on you, they may answer 'we do now.'

    9. Re:Obvious consequence by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The people who want to know if they've been spied on likely have something to hide. This is a easy way to figure out who to concentrate on.

      A new twist on "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about".

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    10. Re: Obvious consequence by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I'd send in everyone you don't like... from a largely anonymous source, of course :)

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  3. what's the point of complaining exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there anything besides the slight cathartic release to gain from such a complaint?

    1. Re:what's the point of complaining exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just in case you've somehow not managed to make it onto the list of extremists (such as Linux users, or people who have more than a few days worth of food at hand)... Register a complaint now to ensure you make the cut!

    2. Re:what's the point of complaining exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through. If you complain nothing happens, you might as well not bother. Oh my back hurts, it's not a very fine day and I'm sick and tired of this office.

    3. Re:what's the point of complaining exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are now being monitored for providing this intelligence to unknown and potentially unauthorized foreign channels.

    4. Re:what's the point of complaining exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Brain the size of a planet..."

  4. Not usually a paranoid guy, but clicked the link.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Secure Connection Failed

    Admittedly, a bit worrying.

  5. This is probably as useful as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "click here to be removed from our list"...

    1. Re:This is probably as useful as... by buck-yar · · Score: 1

      "The defendant also tried to destroy evidence by attempting to remove his data on ..."

  6. Re:Repurcussions not worth it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If everyone does it then at least we clog up their database with useless information, and then we can sue them again for watching us just because we asked if they watched us.

  7. If by buck-yar · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If it says you were spied on, it means:
    - maybe you were spied on
    - maybe you weren't spied on

    If it says you weren't spied on, it means:
    - maybe you weren't spied on
    - maybe you were spied on

    In either case, you may now be on a list that is asking. What a clever way of narrowing down the list of people the NSA needs to keep tabs on (If you're doing something wrong, you'll probably want to know if the authorities are on to you).

    1. Re:If by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're doing something wrong, you'll probably want to know if the authorities are on to you.

      Yes, probably. But if I were doing something wrong, I wouldn't be so stupid as to ask the authorities if they are watching me or not. That would be more than just a little daft.

    2. Re:If by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In either case, you may now be on a list that is asking. What a clever way of narrowing down the list of people the NSA needs to keep tabs on (If you're doing something wrong, you'll probably want to know if the authorities are on to you).

      Narrowing it down?
      It sounds as if NSA would have an interest in reducing the list. They don't narrow it down, they just append everyone who requests.

    3. Re:If by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      If you're doing something wrong, you'll probably want to know if the authorities are on to you.

      Yes, probably. But if I were doing something wrong, I wouldn't be so stupid as to ask the authorities if they are watching me or not. That would be more than just a little daft.

      Ha! So if you DON'T ask whether you're being watched, then you definitely have something to hide, so they'll start watching you.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    4. Re:If by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're doing something wrong, you'll probably want to know if the authorities are on to you.

      Yes, probably. But if I were doing something wrong, I wouldn't be so stupid as to ask the authorities if they are watching me or not. That would be more than just a little daft.

      Ha! So if you DON'T ask whether you're being watched, then you definitely have something to hide, so they'll start watching you.

      Never get involved in a land war in Asia.

    5. Re:If by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      im not doing anything wrong and i want to know if im being spied upon. your thesis is based on a silly premise, thats just like why would you use encryption if you dont have anything to hide.

      i don't have anything to hide, i haven't done anything wrong, yet i still use encryption and i would like to know if the authorities are spying on me.

      but then again i understand fully that i am on the list based on my skill set with computers and the mere possibility that i could get up to no good if my morals changed.

      and that is exactly why mass surveillance is no good. the good people get swept up with the bad and we are all a little less safe because of it.

  8. Tor costs them money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again and again and again...

    The main reason for tor for those that are morally and ethically sane, is to make the collection of personal data exponentially more expensive.

    If you pass your shit clear text, they can collect it passively.

    If you pass your shit through tor, they must actively break the obfuscation and encryption which cannot be done with anywhere near the same efficiency.

    Therefor, if you do not like what they are doing, make it hard for them.

    1. Re:Tor costs them money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Why make it hard for them? They're only after terrorists and drug dealers..

    2. Re:Tor costs them money! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Any such claimed secure system will attract illegal activity that would be quickly rounded up out in the open.

      As such, any of these systems will immediately become a stress test for government penetration.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  9. Ello, I wish to register a complaint by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    We're closin' for lunch.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  10. Easier option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Me, talking into my phone without making a call: "Hey, NSA, are you spying on me?"
    Phone: "Nope."

  11. fuuccck it by strstr · · Score: 0

    this looks like it's GCHQ only. not NSA. not for Americans to complain to, it's for UK citizens to complain about being spied on only.

    I was spied on by NSA using space and radar capability; building penetrating tomography, the high tech side. The telephone and internet tapping shit is the 'low tech side.' I'm backed by DOD/CIA whistleblowers on it too, even had them try to kill me using electronic warfare. no psychosis or delusion, per my multiple psychologists and lawyer evaluations.

    obamasweapon.com | drrobertduncan.com

  12. Funny fucking headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to find out if your neighbor is watching you, press 1.
    to find out if your grandfather is really gay, press 2.
    to ask grandfather for lotion, press 3.
    to put the lotion on the skin, press 4.
    to call for bucket, press 5.

    1. Re:Funny fucking headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to get the hose again, press 6 ?

  13. "I shall file a strongly worded complaint" LOLZ by rubycodez · · Score: 3, Insightful

    really, filing a complaint with a UK charity that has 8 employees?? Even I'm laughing hard, and I'm a victim of government spying. Word your complaint with boulders in the desert so it's visible from outer space while you're at it, it'll do fuck-all as much good

  14. Re:Repurcussions not worth it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just repeatedly ask "Have you spied on me yet?" Eventually, they'll snap.

    Picture being the parent driving a car on a long trip with 300 million whiny children in the back seat. If even a small fraction start asking "are we there yet?" it will drive you to insanity.

    You don't win by killing your opponent. You win by breaking their will to live, while keeping them alive against that will. And you win bonus points the longer you string their futile existence along without explicitly preventing their suicide.

  15. I have my FBI file by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 3, Interesting

    After my clearance was issued I obtained it through the freedom of information act. Great reference material (we moved a lot).

    While this was mostly information I sent myself, there are the interviews of your reference's, spontaneous interviews, and what they have found.

    One would assume anything of importance from the NSA be included as well.

    1. Re:I have my FBI file by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Informative

      One would assume anything of importance from the NSA be included as well.

      Bad assumption.

      First, Federal agencies aren't known for cooperating with one another by default.

      Second, the FBI come from Law Enforcement, the NSA's roots are Military. Military and Law Enforcement don't cooperate without a gun to their head (oddly enough, that's why there IS a CIA and NSA - Hoover's FBI wouldn't cooperate willingly with Army/Navy/etc intelligence agencies (and don't get me started on how the Army/Navy/Air Force intel shops don't talk to each other without a gun to their collective heads))....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:I have my FBI file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you feel about OPM's fiasco? Worried about China knowing everything about you?

    3. Re:I have my FBI file by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 2

      How do you feel about OPM's fiasco? Worried about China knowing everything about you?

      My information has been hacked two times (three but I can't remember who it was), as a veteran, and as a government employee. At least with OPM you know who has it.

    4. Re:I have my FBI file by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      At least with OPM you know who has it.

      Everyone?

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  16. Re:Repurcussions not worth it by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

    So I can ask if they spied on me and then almost certainly be put on a government list somewhere of people who have something to hide and/or are doing illegal things. Super.

    Pretty sure using an Anonymous VPN Service will get the same result...
    One might even speculate that such a service would be a good thing to "operate" if you wanted to collect data.

    --
    You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  17. Legal Standing? by ameline · · Score: 1

    If they confirm they have spied on you, does this give you legal standing to sue? If so, expect them to neither confirm nor deny anything.

    --
    Ian Ameline
    1. Re: Legal Standing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly does this process return?

    2. Re:Legal Standing? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      If they confirm they have spied on you, does this give you legal standing to sue? If so, expect them to neither confirm nor deny anything.

      They're not exactly going to admit they illegally spied on you, surely? So what are you going to sue them for?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    3. Re:Legal Standing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't there a case a few years back where government lawyers even accidentally sent PROOF that the government was spying on a group, followed shortly by demands that all of the documents, copies & references be returned to them along with threats that if they even discussed the event they would be prosecuted. Then later a lawsuit by said group was thrown out because they couldn't "prove" that they were being spied on despite knowledge of and attempts to demand the already known documents entered into evidence? Apparently even when they do admit to it they can get the information suppressed.

  18. Re:Repurcussions not worth it by alexhs · · Score: 1

    Just repeatedly ask "Have you spied on me yet?" Eventually, they'll snap.

    Nah, they're an administration. They're experts. You will snap.

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
  19. Ok, "small correction"... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I clicked on Mr. Wilson's name & it said "user does not exist" but using Google to do Mark Wilson site:slashdot.org yielded his account (via wilsonmark oddly) & he posted it BEFORE I did (9:59 a.m. vs. myself @ 3 pm roughly).

    * "MY BAD"/Mea Culpa, etc. - et al!

    APK

    P.S.=> And, "there ya go"... apk

  20. Are you spying on me GCHQ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. (muttering under breath) we asked our mates at the NSA to do it.

  21. Personal experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had GCHQ cyber squirrels at Bude trying to download files(literally fileshare ports) via my Intel NIC firmware to their servers in the UK. Which means to say that the NSA was doing it via their 150 million installation there.

    No malware or commercial firewall seemed to stop it. What did stop it was a simple program called peerblock. Logged them/blocked them as DINSA. Traced the IP. Geolocated the IP. And my, it's a nice facility. Big white balls for every privacy invaded ahole to rub. But they were still trying their hardest to copy the entire disk. And it started at boot.

    No program was running that I could trace it to, so what I did was take the NIC offline, changed the hardware MAC address to some random number(not intel categorized), and flashed the firmware. Then it stopped. I had the same IP, just a different MAC.

    1. Re:Personal experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story.

    2. Re: Personal experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't true

  22. Complaints, eh? by msobkow · · Score: 1

    A complaint, eh?

    Well, regardless of whether we spied on you before, you can be assured we will now because clearly you have something you don't want us to know about.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  23. SSL much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really? The website uses a SHA-1 cert. Get a yellow warning much?

  24. A word of caution to the curious: by kheldan · · Score: 2

    From the 'Be careful what you ask for' department:
    A friend told me a story once about a friend of his: Someone he knows wondered if the FBI had a file on him. So he called the FBI and asked them flat out, "Do you have a file on me?". Their reply was "We do now". I believe this 100% applies here; if you inquire as to whether they've spied on you in the past, you're probably guaranteeing that they're going to spy on you in the future, just because you drew attention to yourself.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:A word of caution to the curious: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This suggests that your civic duty, if you're a boring law-abiding citizen, is to make such an inquiry - so that attention is drawn away from the exciting law-abiding citizens (such as civil-rights activists).

    2. Re:A word of caution to the curious: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something tells me your friend is full of shit. Considering how hard they try to make it seem as if they're not spying on most citizens, I find it very hard to believe they would have an response like that when asked about it. That would amount to an admission that they're spying on citizens for no good reason, which they've been denying. How did your post get modded up? It is obvious bullshit.

    3. Re:A word of caution to the curious: by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Something tells me your friend is full of shit. Considering how hard they try to make it seem as if they're not spying on most citizens, I find it very hard to believe they would have an response like that when asked about it. That would amount to an admission that they're spying on citizens for no good reason, which they've been denying. How did your post get modded up? It is obvious bullshit.

      Even if true, it sounds more like a bored FBI guy having a laugh.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    4. Re:A word of caution to the curious: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah!

      I'm going to just ask them "Will you start a file on me if I ask you whether you have a file on me?"

      So I can decide whether to ask or not. Sorted!

    5. Re:A word of caution to the curious: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if true, it sounds more like a bored FBI guy having a laugh.

      Although I'd also believe a smart person at the FBI figured out that by making it policy to create a file on anyone asking (simply to hold the record of your request), you can honestly say "yes" to everyone without giving away any actual information. Maybe you had one before, maybe you didn't. But you do *now*, which means we can now (again, honestly) claim that you were "known to authorities" when we decide to throw you in a dark hole one day.

  25. Figure it out. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8000075&cid=50517961

  26. Meh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds more like a fishing exercise than anything really genuine.

  27. Suspicious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, GCHQ are going to get a letter with a previously loosly linked facebook account, twitter address, email address, phone number, set of IP addresses, home addresses, name and any other "identifier", that now concretely ties all those things together, where they now KNOW they are all the same person. With the letter, they even get a bonus of getting your prints too...

    Seems suspicious to me

    1. Re:Suspicious by Sique · · Score: 2

      No one said you had to put all that information in the same request. Request only one information per attempt, and they are still disconnected.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  28. Go ahead, complain. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enjoy not being able to board a plane, ever. Enjoy unemployment. Enjoy poverty. Enjoy not be granted a loan. That's what happens if you make waves. The only way to survive in the Surveillance Age is to get lost in the background noise. Conformity and mediocrity are safety.

  29. Re:Repurcussions not worth it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The irony is, in the episode they turn the bureaucracy on itself and the administration go mad instead.

  30. Re:Repurcussions not worth it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A good idea for 1990. With present technology they can keep records on just about everyone all the time. If Google can do it (and they do) then certainly governments can do it.

  31. Are you a fence post or boulder? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No?

    Then yes, you've been spied upon!

  32. They swap information between the "5 eyes" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: They're KNOWN to share information between themselves (as I believe the press has called the nations acting in collusion for this, 5 eyes iirc)...

    So, think about it: It's possible even YOU as a U.S. Citizen for instance, to show up there, IF the NSA sent your info. their way in the UK (GHCQ etc.) to do this to you.

    * Crazy world!

    (Apologies for the double-post: The flaccid undereducated trolls I've smoked so many times here on /. have resorted to their effete little 'weapon' of the unjustifiable abused downmod as "revenge" (lol, I know, it's pitiful) -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen... so, ,b>I just repost to spite them, & to make them blow more of their modpoints they abuse, saving the next guy their antics thus + to make sure you see it is all...)

    APK

    P.S.=> I wonder if ANYONE here has tried this to see if it actually really works or not (I haven't personally) - & the ONLY real way to know would be to get a "Yes, we did" on it, which I doubt most folks fit here as "persons of interest" to these agencies... apk