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Launch Manifest For NASA's "Road To Mars" Takes Shape But Questions Remain
MarkWhittington writes: NASASpaceFlight.com reported that NASA's so-called "Road to Mars" is starting to take shape. The deep space program that would conclude with human astronauts departing for the Red Planet in 2039 would require just over 40 launches of the heavy-lift Space Launch System, including an uncrewed flight in 2018 and one flight a year to cis-lunar space starting in 2021 lasting until 2027. A flight in 2028 would launch something called the Pathfinder Entry Descent Landing Craft to Mars as a precursor for a human landing. Then the Mars program begins in earnest with a mission to Phobos in 2033 and missions to the Martian surface in 2039 and 2043.
Just make sure they don't stampede.
You ever see cattle stampede when they got no place to run? Itâ(TM)s kinda like a meat grinder. [/obscure quote]
Something doesn't add up here - afaik the outer-space radiation problem hasn't been solved yet. The Apollo moon landings were all short-duration flights, and the MIR and ISS operations take place inside the somewhat protective Van-Allen belts. What is going to protect the astronauts on the long-duration flights to Mars and back again from solar bursts and other deep-space radiation hazards?
Am I missing something here?
Where is the manifest? Both of these articles talk about it, but don't actually include it.
It looks like this manifest being referred to is behind a login prompt.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
one flight a year to cis-lunar space
No flights to trans-lunar space?
SOMEONE ALERT TUMBLR!
I won't live that long. Oh, well nothing to see here.
WTF? How the responsible hopes that the Congress will approve a mission spending so many launches for sending a single crew? And expecting to use a rocket that not even exist yet?
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Dear heathen idiots, a few presents:
James Van Allen:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/radiation-belts-around-the-earth/
"Our measurements show that the maximum radiation level as of 1958 is equivalent to between 10 and 100 REM per hour, depending on the still undetermined proportion of protons to electrons. Since a human being exposed for two days to even 10 REM would have only an even chance of survival, the radiation belts obviously present an obstacle to space flight" (Radiation Belts around the Earth in Scientific American Volume 200, Issue 3)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyZqSWWKmHQ
No Mars, no Pluto, no Jupiter, ...
No Moon.
See subject and http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... hahahahahaha
There are radiation protection and food logistic issues that remain, however, the biggest problem is mental. Being couped up for 3 years on a small capsule is not doable given human dynamics for the need of private space and the needs to both roam and to be alone at times. The idea of suspended animation is one that needs to be resurrected from the pages of SciFi- it saves resources, reduces human psychology issues and it preserves the body from developing in flight medical issues.
All this time, money and effort would be better spent designing and building an actual space ship that could leave orbit, come back, be resupplied, go somewhere else, etc. A phalanx of ion drives, the EM drive (if it's real), etc. powered by a multi megawatt reactor, a rotating crew module for artificial gravity, long cycle life support systems, magnetic shielding, etc. The Real Deal.
Then you could go to Mars, asteroid belt when you want and come back when you want.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
If they really wanted to get to Mars, they would use an architecture like Mars Direct which could be done in 10 or so years, using today's technologies, without even expanding NASA's budget.
Instead, this is really built to show as many SLS launches as possible (read: most inefficient architecture imaginable) to make it appear as though the insanely expensive rocket to nowhere has a nice full launch manifest.
Oh, great, another day, another crazy kookoo post about space travel.
LOOK, IDIOTS, what you're so conveniently forgetting is that there ARE no roads in space! There aren't even dirt ones, much less the multi-lane asphalt highways that we'd need to set up any sort of meaningful economy on Mars! Don't believe me? Look it up on Google Maps! If you go into the route planner and enter, say, "Chicago" in the one box and "Mars" in the destination box, you'll get ZERO results!
Oh, but the next thing you IDIOTS will tell me is that the point of this program is to BUILD a road to Mars. Bullshit! Nobody in their right mind would try to build a road in space! It's just too expensive! How are you going to get the asphalt out there? On a truck, right? HA! Right now you can't even so much as drive TO ORBIT! Much less to MARS! IDIOTS!
I am so sick of you Slashdot IDIOTS bothering me every day with this unrealistic GARBAGE. Space travel will NEVER make economic sense, and meanwhile you IDIOTS are wasting literally HALF of my taxes trying to make it work. Meanwhile, we COULD be spending that money on paying a professional sports team to come to my city. THAT would make economic sense! SO SHUT UP ABOUT THE UNIVERSE ALREADY!
I'm not a lunar-conspiracy nut, but in the case of Mars I think NASA should fake it. Pull a grand sort of "13th Floor"/'Truman Show' trick.
Fake send the astronauts into space, pretend you have a sci-fi cryogenic sleeping pod, but really just knock them out and send them to a giant sound stage somewhere. They only have enough oxygen to walk a certain distance so you can limit their traverses...
And for all of those launches, actually put into space some real useful science like robotic explorers, space telescopes, and or parts for a much more sensical lunar habitat and or space station. The public gets the 'awe' of Mars exploration and the human race gets to move ahead in space and not on PR.
Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads.
There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
That late? I'm sure SpaceX will set up a landing pad for the NASA guys near their base by then. :D
(only half-joking - SpaceX has a credible chance of doing their first manned mission 5-10 years earlier. Yes, it is an ambitious plan and has challenges both from technology standpoint, and from the funding side, but they are definitely working towards that goal already and SpaceX is definitely turning a profit from their practice missions aka satellite launches)
For the price of this mission you could send at least 100 Curiosity rovers and they could stay on the surface for decades. But instead NASA will send a few meatbags for a month or so. Why? Because NASA is run by the manned mission directorate and JPL's highly successful robotic missions are stealing their thunder.
Its in fact a very modest program that has only maybe a 30% chance of success as conceived, I'd say (assuming its carried through as planned, I'm talking about mission/technical risk, not political risk). Probably 70% chance of issues leading to massive cost increases to deal with unknown hazards/issues/requirements. Then even if you launch something on this agenda, there's a pretty good chance it isn't going to get where you sent it with a functioning crew, lander, etc. 2039 is only 24 years, BARELY enough time to iterate enough deep space manned missions (all those trips to 'cis-lunar space') to sort out the deep space mission issues. I think if they spent 5x more, then 24 years would probably be pretty adequate, but...
And the end result is going to be what? A few weeks on the surface of Mars? Stuck in one small area of the planet? What's the total program cost? Divide that by the cost of Curiosity, and see what it buys you.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
2039?
That's like 12 congressional election cycles from now. Might as well be fornever.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
This'll be exciting for someone.
From the article Earth Living Is Tough for Astronaut Used to Space:
"Speech is one issue, but other health effects are more pressing for long-term orbiting astronauts. Bone density lessens at a rate of 1 percent a month. Muscle mass shrinks. Eyeball pressure changes, with roughly one-fifth of astronauts reporting vision issues.
Until about June 3, Hadfield will do an intensive battery of testing and recovery at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston before pursuing an independent physical rehabilitation program for a few months."
Having spent roughly 5 months in zero gravity, this astronaut will have to spend months recovering from the experience.
Now tell me again how we are going to send humans to Mars...
How many months of space flight in microgravity will it take to get there?
How many months of recovery to be able to function in Mars' gravity (albeit 1/3 of Earth norm)?
How many more months of space flight in microgravity will it take to get back?
How many more months of recovery to be able to function in Earth's gravity?
If you can't even deal with the physical effects of microgravity on human physiology, don't even start on any of the other technical problems.
Time to stop focusing on the science fiction that we see all the time and start focusing on science fact.
These scientist are the really great to hear that they are going to start next launches will be at 2018. They are just looking into the Mars planet roadway. We really proud to be human.
To be frank, Mars is pointless right now. When we get to the point where we have a few orbiting colonies with sustainable closed ecologies (which we can't even do on Earth now), we can push two off to Mars to arrive at leisure. One can go down as living quarters and the other can stay in orbit to provide space based power plant maintenance and emergency transportation.
Instead, of course, we'll just throw some bodies at Mars so we can grab our collective genitalia while grunting "First!"
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I wonder if NASA has actually thought of what kind of drugs they might need to give astronauts to keep them from going bonkers.
Some kind of low-grade hypnotic that wouldn't too badly hamper cognitive ability but allow astronauts to go into a kind of hypnotic trance for hours at a time.
https://www.google.com/maps/di...
Here's a link that describes the solar system's roads:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
2039 planned means about 2060 for real.
So even the youngest among us will probably be dead by then.
In other words - who gives a shit.
Coren22 the hypocrite gets his ass paddled by apk yet again? Hahahahaha http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
We are never going to get to Mars so long as NASA is projecting on these time scales. There is no accountability to the current staff as the timespan is longer then their tenures. This is just a means to keep their paychecks funded and to show they are following the president's directives. We have the technology to launch in just a few years, but no one wants to take the actual risk, nor provide for a real amount of funding.
My vote is for Elon Musk at this point.
I'm a space fan but there is no economic or military payoff for going to Mars and the science part can be handled by robots.
Surely Pathfinder is the mars rover mission that has already gone, not any mission slated for 2028. This article looks like nonsense.
If a Firefly quote is considered "obscure" on Slashdot, then it's definitely time to leave for brighter pastures...
Where is the manifest? Both of these articles talk about it, but don't actually include it.
It looks like this manifest being referred to is behind a login prompt.
You insensitive clod! The One True Manifest Being is ahead of the login prompt, not behind it.
Time to stop focusing on the science fiction that we see all the time and start focusing on science fact.
There hasn't been an astronaut or cosmonaut yet that was actually truly incapable of walking after they landed back on Earth. Not even the ones up there for over a year. They tend to get carried for the same reason that hospitals will wheel someone in a wheelchair to just outside the hospital doors. The extensive physical therapy and testing is mostly to help understand what condition they are in after coming back and to help ensure their health for the long term. They aren't actually crippled by the space travel (well, eyesight is looking like a bit of an issue). Astronauts landing on Mars would land, go through a few tests, then be ready to walk on the surface pretty much right away.
... in order to be a witness to this.
*stashes plans for early exit*
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
"Then the Mars program begins in earnest with a mission to Phobos in 2033 and missions to the Martian surface in 2039 and 2043." Then the monkey flies out of the unicorn's ass...
I am not a number - I am a free man!
AS opposed to what? Having an article written about in a science journal about another planet that no one cares about, just to dick measure? Let's face it, there's not much in space exploration at this moment that is anything more than pure entertainment, machine or non-machine. Getting an exact date on the end of the universe isn't going to change anything, and in any case, even if the universe did end, there's not a damn thing we can do about it anyway. So in essence, you argument of sending machines to gather content for your entertainment is no more valid than someone who wants people on the red planet. But, if we keep sending people out there, we will figure out a way to do it less expensively, and there's plenty of people that would go, simply because the earth is too big of a pain in the rear for them.
This is my sig.
The remaining lifespan of the crew members is 0-5 years, at most. That helps a bit.
I'm sure there's details that would change in reality of course, but I don't see where this is wrong at any basic conceptual level. I think we should built some NTR/NER 'tug' vehicles that can move heavy stuff around autonomously and move materials where we need/want them. Maybe starting on the Lunar surface makes more sense, I'm not entirely sure what order is most efficient, but the elements all seem right at least. NASA's LAT and Lunar mission planning is pretty advanced. We could DEFINITELY be at the south pole of the Moon in 5 years without even breaking a sweat, and have a manned base up and running by year 10.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson