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When Schools Overlook Introverts

Esther Schindler writes: A few years ago, Susan Cain's book, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking seemed to give the world a bit of enlightenment about getting the most out of people who don't think they should have to be social in order to succeed. For a while, at least some folks worked to respect the needs and advantages of introversion, such as careful, reflective thinking based on the solitude that idea-generation requires.

But in When Schools Overlook Introverts, Michael Godsey writes, "The way in which certain instructional trends — education buzzwords like "collaborative learning" and "project-based learning" and "flipped classrooms" — are applied often neglect the needs of introverts. In fact, these trends could mean that classroom environments that embrace extroverted behavior — through dynamic and social learning activities — are being promoted now more than ever." It's a thoughtful article, worth reading. As I think many people on slashdot will agree, Godsley observes, "This growing emphasis in classrooms on group projects and other interactive arrangements can be challenging for introverted students who tend to perform better when they're working independently and in more subdued environments."

19 of 307 comments (clear)

  1. Social media by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Did in being an introvert. SM (as opposed to S&M, which is for another topic) is the current be-all-end-all to a great many people. It's sort of like AOL was the internet back in the early 90s, SM is the internet.
    But for introverts, who don't feel like posting every aspect of their life for all to see (I am one of those) we are overlooked in this mad rush to get 10,000 "friends" or 20 million "likes" and I feel it's infecting schools as well. Not directly, but in the way of thinking that everything (learning) must be done in groups, or socially, or collaboratively, which is not the way we all think or learn.

    --
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    1. Re: Social media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Many years ago some school in the northwest did a pretty substantial study of online relationships. When I saw that less than 3% of online friends had ever worked to help their friend with a real life problems, that's when I realized what a waste of time SNS is. They described the qualifier for this as things like moving, driving long distances, etc.

      SNS is the Walmart of friendships. Convenient cheap and plentiful low quality friendship.

    2. Re: Social media by Bengie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Friendship" in the same sense as talking to a stranger while waiting in line and calling them a "friend". A friend isn't someone that you know, it's someone you can depend upon.

    3. Re:Social media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would argue that group learning is a flawed way of learning whether you're an introvert or extrovert. On paper it would seem logical that group dynamics would be that the first person to figure something out would then relay that information to his/her group peers. Unfortunately this requires advanced reasoning skills that most people do not possess. Instead, the loudest person in the group usually dictates the answer and others accept it for flawed reasons, such as, "he/she must know what they're talking about since they're so convinced." In slightly more advanced groups the tendency is to believe the person with the answer that sounds most believable, whether it's true or not. This will often lead people to learn incorrectly as well.

      Group learning is also flawed because it introduces noise into the signal of each student's performance. If a student that needs a lot of extra attention is placed in a group with students who are doing well, he/she may ride their coattails and avoid receiving the specialized attention they need.

      The whole approach, I believe, is a consequence of our society's increasingly hedonistic tendency to let good feelings trump reason. "Everybody's a winner" applied to learning.

  2. Both types of learning are important by Bengie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am an introverted person and I do well on my own, but I also like having some contact with other people. When I was younger, spending time away from other people allowed me to learn more about myself. As time went on, I started to reach the limits of what I could learn about myself alone and I needed to be around people to find out more about me.

    Being around people is a large energy drain for me, but I do require some interaction to be optimal.

    1. Re: Both types of learning are important by gsslay · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The best explanation I have ever heard is that an extrovert gets energized by being around people. An introvert gets tired.

      Worth repeating.

      Being an introvert does not mean you hide in your room, hate people and avoid talking to everyone. An evening to yourself is bliss, whereas an extrovert would consider it torture. An evening in a crowd, talking to people you don't know, is hard work, whereas an extrovert would consider it the best party ever.

  3. Correlates to the rise of "political correctness". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The most interesting thing to note is that the rise in these more group-oriented methods of teaching has happened in parallel with, but slightly lagging, the rise of what's commonly called "political correctness".

    But maybe it shouldn't be surprising that this has happened. Political correctness, as it's called, is the philosophy of suppressing individual thought and expression in order to create a cohesive, dull, uninspired collective thought that's devoid of originality. The best way to eliminate a person's individual intellectual abilities is to control and shape them from the very earliest years of this person's life.

    Schools are, after all, the primary place where a society shapes its future generations. Teachers, most of whom have moved from school directly to college, and then directly to teaching in the schools they attended only a few years before, have never had any meaningful position or interaction outside of academia.

    The concept of political correctness originated within the leftist-, socialist-, and communist-oriented segments of academia, most often from what are called the "social sciences" (but which tend to have absolutely nothing to do with science in any way). These college academics are the ones who taught the school teachers, thus seeding political correctness into the education systems around the world.

    So we end up with the situation we have today, where all school-related participation must be at the group level. Individualism cannot be tolerated. It's not considered acceptable for a pupil to have his or her own thoughts, especially if they may disagree with or conflict with what the academic leadership has deemed to be correct. Any students who dare show signs of individualism are systematically crushed until they become part of the group conformity.

    The current education system is just a byproduct of the pernicious attitude that colleges and academia has toward any free thought and free expression that doesn't exactly correlate to what these academics believe.

  4. Group work in school by Calydor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gods, how I hated that crap.

    If I am going to succeed or fail in school it should NOT be based on the morons the teacher groups me with, but on my own capabilities.

    In my memory of my school years, group work inevitably devolved into the rest of the group chatting among themselves while I did the work anyway.

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    1. Re:Group work in school by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      School should be an environments where everybody gets to succeed triumphantly and fail misserably, with projects that are socially hyperactive, projects that require isolation and everything inbetween. They should teach self esteem and humility equally, let students learn their weaknesses as well as their strenghts and hand them the tools to deal with them.

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    2. Re:Group work in school by Qzukk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah! You should stop doing the work so everyone gets an F, including yourself! That'll show 'em!

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      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  5. history is written by the winners by yes-but-no · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So who brings about these so called great school programs? it's very likely a bunch of extroverts. So they think whatever activities helped them grow, will help everyone. And by definition an introvert is not going to be in such a decision making group/power. So is it all bad? not really. A truly introvert will keep moving in the direction of his strength; that is he (or she) goes even more into himself and finds the gold. So it's just a darwinian selection of the stronger introvert to come out with success. I guess the game is to find the toughest independent of the cards one is dealt with.

  6. Re:Flipped Classrooms by NotDrWho · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I can see how "collaborative learning" and "project-based learning" might be problematic for introverts

    It's been my experience that those terms have a much more sinister meaning in real life that they appear on the surface. "Collaborative learning," "project-based learning," any kind of focus on groups or group projects, and so on are often a teaching buzzwords for "Put all the kids in a group so the smart kids can carry the dumb kids and then on paper it looks like everyone is doing well." Here is the way a "group project" worked at my old school:

    1) Put at least one smart kid (like me) in each group (with the dumb and mediocre kids)
    2) Smart kid does all the work because he/she actually wants an "A"
    3) Dumb and mediocre kids do fuck all, learn fuck all, and accomplish fuck all, Mostly they just nap or play on their cellphones while the smart kid works.
    4) Group gets an "A" because the smart kid works his/her ass off
    5) Dumb and mediocre kids get an "A," look on paper like they're really improving and learning

    EDUCATION!

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  7. I can just see the extrovert teacher saying by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can just see the extrovert teacher saying: No problem with introverts here! I've never heard them complaining.

  8. Re:Flipped Classrooms by avandesande · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is to get them all ready for the work experience....

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    love is just extroverted narcissism
  9. Re:Flipped Classrooms by Talderas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Resign.

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    "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  10. Re: We all have to work together. by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually in my experience those that are the most mediocre have the least patience for other mediocre people.

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  11. Re:Hated it too. 35 years, STILL surrounded by mor by tehcyder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's fucking uncanny how literally everyone posting here is a solitary genius surrounded by incompetent, lazy fools.

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    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  12. Re:Flipped Classrooms by PRMan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My daughter's current Geometry teacher thinks "flipped" classroom is great. His definition:

    • First 25 minutes, help kids with last night's homework.
    • Next 10 minutes, rush through prewritten lesson on board and scream, "Get it?! Any questions?!" in a way that nobody would dare ask a question.
    • Next 25 minutes, help kids with tonight's homework. Neglect to get to all of them because there isn't time.

    My daughter is teaching herself Geometry because she's "smart" and "doesn't need help" so she can never get his attention. So I end up teaching her Geometry at night because he's the worst teacher she's ever had.

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    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  13. Re:Flipped Classrooms by rhsanborn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not everyone wants to be a leader. I say this as an introvert who has taken on leadership roles. I appreciate that some people are awesome at being top-notch individual contributors, and teachers who try to shoe-horn kids into extrovert styles are doing those students a disservice. Frankly, it's way more common that teachers are extroverts, so they're trying to make their students act like extroverts too.