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China Beats US In Early Cuban Internet Infrastructure Investment

Posted by timothy on from the who-is-this-us-you-speak-of? dept.

lpress writes: The US would like to sell Cuba Internet service and equipment, but we have had little success so far. China has won the first round — they financed and installed Cuba's undersea cable, supplied backbone equipment and public WiFi access centers and will provide equipment for the forthcoming home DSL rollout. That being said, Cuba has very little connectivity today and most of what they have and plan to install is already obsolete by today's standards, so they will be buying a lot of equipment in the future.

109 comments

  1. O Rly? by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So you hold an embargo against a nation for decades and now they don't fall over themselves to buy from you?

    What an ungrateful bunch!

    1. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? You're crazy! There is nothing else to buy other than Cisco! Cisco cisco cisco

    2. Re:O Rly? by quintesse · · Score: 1

      Indeed, besides, with what money? It's not as if you can buy a lot of equipment with a $12 per month average salary.

    3. Re:O Rly? by hij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Meh, if they had purchased it from the US the actual equipment would have been made in China anyway. The only difference is which set of suits gets to skim the profits off the back of which Chinese workers.

      --
      Believe nothing -- Buddha
    4. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bahamas is closest to Cuba unless you're counting Guantanamo Bay.

    5. Re: O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least everyone's making the same salary. Unlike the "land of the free".

    6. Re:O Rly? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > They (the "supporting" communist countries) abandoned that shithole and let it rot for many years.

      For decades, the Soviet Union in particular kept their economy afloat. They were an absolutely critical Atlantic Ocean seaport for the Soviet navy, a treasured vacation for Communist Party leadership, and and a critical source of sugar and tobacco luxury goods in an increasingly desperate Soviet economy. They were also an invaluable electronic listening post, an embarrassing counter-example to American and western democracy's political claims against communism, and a critical exporter of communist ideology to all of Latin America.

      Then they Soviet Empire went bankrupt, and the economy tanked. But they've still managed to avoid the boom-bust and destructive mismanagement of Haiti, and the third class US protectorate status of Puerto Rico, and they've managed to survive the devastation to their most critical trade good, tobacco, as worldwide smoking habits shifted. They still have one of the highest literacy rates in the world and lowest lower infant mortality rates, both notably better than the USA or Canada. They're making do with an economy that is stretched very, very thin, but give credit where it's due. They've avoided the murderous puppet governments of other desperate Caribbean islands such as Haiti and Jamaica.

    7. Re: O Rly? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well, yes, everyone is making the same salary...of course, Fidel and Raul Castro are both worth millions. I wonder how that happened?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    8. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So why, exactly, should Cuba buy from the U.S?

    9. Re: O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well at least they made it corruptly after getting to the top , In America you cant even get to the top until you have made or inherited that pile of money to buy the office. .

    10. Re: O Rly? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Everybody making the same salary is not something that should be particularly celebrated if it means that nobody ever gets to do what they want to do.

    11. Re: O Rly? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      The distance between various people involved in the deal has little to do with what nation is closest to Cuba. The wiring does, but that's a separate matter. Besides the United States and China did no such thing. People from various companies chartered from those countries who in turn hire people who may be from yet other countries do.

    12. Re: O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What can you not do as a Cuban? Except buy American stuff due to the American blockade?

    13. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slaves, they need the workers, and America has lots of people they want to get out of the country.

    14. Re: O Rly? by hackwrench · · Score: 2

      I don't know much about the economy of Haiti and to be honest of Cuba either, but from what I have heard, avoiding a boom bust cycle by never having a boom does not seem like that great of an achievement.

    15. Re:O Rly? by Zak3056 · · Score: 1, Troll

      an embarrassing counter-example to American and western democracy's political claims against communism

      I really can't argue anything else in your post, but I can't help but wonder how Cuba was supposed to be an embarrassment vis a vis political systems. Sure, it's easy to make the point that "America can't dislodge this thorn in their side that sits less than 200km from their own shore" but I'm hard pressed to come up with any positive connotations to "our dictatorship is better than your democracy."

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    16. Re:O Rly? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > I really can't argue anything else in your post, but I can't help but wonder how Cuba was supposed to be an embarrassment vis a vis political systems.

      There's a lot of sources of embarrassment, from the ineffectiveness of the US embargo in collapsing their economy, to the demonstrably stable Communist regime, in the USA's back yard, one that countered the claims that the only way for Latin American nations to survive was as as US puppets, to Castro's ongoing political friendships with other Latin American countries. The living counterexample to claims of Communist enforced starvation and economic despair.

      Do understand that they're quite poor, but for most of them it's still much better than it was under Batista when stunning corruption, death gangs, and US organized crime controlled the island. The revolution there was inevitable: it's amazing that it worked so well, and that they have any economy left after 50 years of murderous anger from the nearest superpower.

    17. Re:O Rly? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 0

      an embarrassing counter-example to American and western democracy's political claims against communism

      Sure, if thousands of executions by firing squad with little to no due process, mass imprisonment and thousands more being "vanished" would embarrass you. They certainly don't embarrass Marxists. As good old Ché, Castro’s chief enforcer put it, "To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution. And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate." All of course while El Jefe himself was living it up on a private island paradise, feathering his bed with drug deals.

    18. Re: O Rly? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Didn't you read quintesse's post? Apparently anything that you can't afford on a Cuban's pay which apparently really isn't all that much. Of course, exchange rate is not the same as purchasing power, but the amount of purchasing power can't be increased a whole lot more than what was stated. And even "purchasing power" doesn't tell the whole story as to what's within the realm of possibility.

    19. Re: O Rly? by jodido · · Score: 1

      Evidence please? Neither one of them owns anything. Unlike politicians in office and retired in a certain large country to the north of Cuba and I don't mean Canada but I could.

    20. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haiti is not an island, and "do" should be "due".

    21. Re: O Rly? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      So it's exactly the same as everywhere else then...

    22. Re:O Rly? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They were also an invaluable electronic listening post, an embarrassing counter-example to American and western democracy's political claims against communism

      You're kidding, right? The only embarrassment here is that somebody would suggest that Cubans have a good life. As has been noted elsewhere, you can read up on slaves' rations in the writings of Frederick Douglass (as I have) and you'll find that slaves in the antebellum American South ate better than modern day Cubans.

      Well, except for the Castros. I'm sure they're eating well.

      , and a critical exporter of communist ideology to all of Latin America.

      Then they Soviet Empire went bankrupt, and the economy tanked.

      In other words, the "economy" was simply a sham that was exposed when the Soviet Union quit pumping money into the island. The Soviet Union - with the Castros - spent as much money destroying Cuba as the US spent on the Marshall Plan to rebuild Europe after WWII. Think about that.

      But they've still managed to avoid the boom-bust and destructive mismanagement of Haiti, and the third class US protectorate status of Puerto Rico, and they've managed to survive the devastation to their most critical trade good, tobacco, as worldwide smoking habits shifted. They still have one of the highest literacy rates in the world and lowest lower infant mortality rates, both notably better than the USA or Canada. They're making do with an economy that is stretched very, very thin, but give credit where it's due. They've avoided the murderous puppet governments of other desperate Caribbean islands such as Haiti and Jamaica.

      Yeah, they've avoided "murderous puppet governments" while maintaining what simply a "murderous government". Lovely. I'm sure the dead people are grateful that the word "puppet" wasn't in there.

      --
      Do you have ESP?
    23. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same way the USSR never admitted they were a militarist authoritarian state, by claiming to be more free.

      That's why people who don't want to face reality get stuck in the idea that Communism failed. Kinda hard when it was just a bunch of con artists lying about being a Democratic and Free Society that was governed by the People.

      Hurp, durp, nope!

    24. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Lowest infant mortality rate', also has a very high abortion rate. Any sign of trouble and baby gets aborted. That is a major reason for their 'lowest infant mortality rate'. Any seemingly impossible communist claim like this has to be examined carefully.

    25. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facts, bah, 'Murica, that's why!

    26. Re:O Rly? by dj245 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      an embarrassing counter-example to American and western democracy's political claims against communism

      I really can't argue anything else in your post, but I can't help but wonder how Cuba was supposed to be an embarrassment vis a vis political systems. Sure, it's easy to make the point that "America can't dislodge this thorn in their side that sits less than 200km from their own shore" but I'm hard pressed to come up with any positive connotations to "our dictatorship is better than your democracy."

      There are many positive impacts of being in a society that is not focused on capitalism. I have not been to Cuba, but in a general sense:

      1. Most communist countries have more public recreation space. Parks, squares, plazas, etc. are often more numerous and larger because the allocation of land is usually not based on "profit".

      2. In communist countries, citizens only have 1 entity to worry about spying on them, collecting personal information, and controlling their life. Cubans worry about the government. Americans worry about the government, Google, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, etc etc.

      3. Culture and the arts often have a higher importance and more public funding. In most capitalist countries, art and culture has to pay for itself, or have the potential to pay for itself, or it doesn't get made. Many communist countries dedicate funding to this. Is it often self-serving? Sure. But art and culture have important roles in society and is often overlooked in capitalist countries.

      4. Stronger, smarter, and more comprehensive city planning (not sure if Cuba does this well or not). In capitalist countries, city planning seems to be a lot more organic and chaotic compared to communist ones. Companies and people build where they want to build, and are motivated by cost. This can have serious problems with regards to "tragedy of the commons" where everyone is looking out only for themselves and the entire population suffers as a result. Many communist countries do a better job managing this and make choices that are better for society as a whole. Cities are often more dense, inefficient suburbs are frowned upon, things are built where they are needed and not where it is cheapest to do so, etc. See also point #1.

      There are probably a lot more but this is just a few I could think of.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    27. Re: O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Capital gains". The finger quotes are for lies.

    28. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jan/31/tom-harkin/sen-tom-harkin-says-cuba-has-lower-child-mortality/

      "Cuba does have a very low infant mortality rate, but pregnant women are treated with very authoritarian tactics to maintain these favorable statistics," said Tassie Katherine Hirschfeld, the chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Oklahoma who spent nine months living in Cuba to study the nation's health system. "They are pressured to undergo abortions that they may not want if prenatal screening detects fetal abnormalities. If pregnant women develop complications, they are placed in ‘Casas de Maternidad’ for monitoring, even if they would prefer to be at home. Individual doctors are pressured by their superiors to reach certain statistical targets. If there is a spike in infant mortality in a certain district, doctors may be fired. There is pressure to falsify statistics."

      It's the VW version of lower child mortality rates.

      Since we have proven Cuba lies to make stats look good, consider that 99% of people in G8 countries can read, and Cuba suggests they are at 99.8%. Now consider that 15% of a normal population is born with dyslexia. It does not seem unlikely that 7% of those with dyslexia will have such a severe disability there is no way to teach them to learn at a functional level. Somehow Cuba has techniques that makes only 1.3% of dyslexia sufferers have a less than functional disability--I highly doubt this is the case! At a certain point, a disability is a disability is a disability. One hopes in that case Cuba is just lying, because if they do what they do with the infant mortality stats that's abhorrent (ie: Kill off anyone with a severe dyslexic disability).

    29. Re: O Rly? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      The 'own' the power of life and death over the entire population. Doesn't get much more powerful than that.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    30. Re:O Rly? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      You're pretty far off as far as Cuba is concerned. Last time I was in Cuba was 17 years ago (through Canada). I don't think a lot has changed....

      - Maybe lots of public spaces, hard to know. Not much commerce going on so lots of empty spaces in cities with people hanging around. If that's your idea of Parks and Recreation, fine. Seemed pretty dull and depressing unless you were looking for an underaged prostitute.
      - Yeah, you only have one oppressor, Fidel & Company. But you don't have any functional legal protections. None whatsoever. The party says you're toast and you are indeed toast (if there was any toast around). Actually, the one oppressor rule wasn't quite correct. There is a thriving black market and those sorts of things are not run by idealistic people. I will leave you to figure out the details. It's not hard.
      - Culture? Depends on your definition, I suppose. What I saw was mostly a wide varieties of different folk cultures. Interesting, but probably cost a couple of thousand dollars across the entire island.
      - City planning? Without much money, the only planning you get is what was there before the economy tanked and the relentless creativeness of humans. The only central planning that sort of worked was with agriculture and that carried a high price (not everybody likes to be forced into farming). Castro's planning failures are legion.

      Yes, you can argue that Cuba hasn't devolved into the horrid mess that is Haiti and the slow motion train wreck that is Puerto Rico and to a large extent the Castro's are responsible for that. But we all know that dictatorship is probably the most efficient of human political arrangements. It just lacks a few things.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    31. Re: O Rly? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      The US embargo only impacted trade to and from the US. It wasn't a blockade. Cuba did indeed to a lot of trading with Russia, Venezuela, and a lot of other countries. The reason they're poor is because Dear Leader decided that capitalism was bad and that working for anybody besides the government was immoral, and furthermore, talking to the outside world (or even so much as receiving US television signals) was also immoral.

      In fact the whole reason that Cuba had no internet access was because the government decided to ban it, except for a select few who could be trusted to toe the party line.

      Anyways we've seen this movie before in other places where US influence is practically non-existent, such as North Korea.

    32. Re:O Rly? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I think that more likely it would end up being used DSLAMS from US regions that were upgraded to fiber.

    33. Re:O Rly? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Umm...there are actually quite a few countries closer to Cuba than the United States (at the tip of florida): Haiti, Jamaica, Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Grand Cayman, and Mexico.

    34. Re:O Rly? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      So you hold an embargo against a nation for decades and now they don't fall over themselves to buy from you?

      It works the other way too. You complain about an embargo by a nation for decades, and when they lift it you don't buy from them.

      Anyhow, the equipment isn't the problem. The slow rollout is because the Cuban government wants to tightly control who gets Internet access and what they'll have access to. In that respect, it's perfectly natural that they'll want to buy from the Chinese who are the world's leader in hardware and software for that type of controlled internet access.

    35. Re:O Rly? by Solandri · · Score: 1

      There's a lot of sources of embarrassment, from the ineffectiveness of the US embargo in collapsing their economy, to the demonstrably stable Communist regime, in the USA's back yard

      It's not demonstrably stable. It survived solely because of Soviet financial aid. Since the fall of the Soviet Union, it's survived because of financial aid from Venezuela which makes up 7%-10% of it's GDP.

      Venezuela gets that money from oil sales, mostly to the U.S. since U.S. refiners are some of the few who can process Venezuela's low-quality heavy crude oil. It's so difficult to process that Venezuela has even been importing light arabian oil to meet their domestic needs rather than attempt to process their oil themselves. So in a roundabout way, it's money that's coming from the U.S. to Cuba.

    36. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon

      Yes, Amazon runs my life. It is true. I so wish I were Cuban. +5, my ass...

    37. Re: O Rly? by Dareth · · Score: 1

      Read Animal Farm. Some people/animals are more equal than others.

      --

      I only look human.
      My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
    38. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious about the methods behind the metric as well. The US counts any infant that takes a breath as born alive, while some countries only count infants that survive the first day (deaths in under 24 hours are tallied as stillborn).

    39. Re:O Rly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Dominican Republic (on the far side of Hispaniola) and Mexico are both further from Cuba than the United States is.

      You left out the Turks and Caicos though.

    40. Re: O Rly? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

      You mean you would prefer to be ruled by men who got to the top by murdering all of their opposition, or even anyone who said something negative about their plans?

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    41. Re: O Rly? by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Is it too early to tell the (possibly apocryphal) story of Stalin and the barking dog again? It's apropos, given that the subject is what "ownership" means.

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  2. world beats /. in ask ed snowden rush by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rock on... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhrZgojY1Q ... truth + mercy = justice thanks again moms..

  3. It's all a big war to the Americans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    helping Cuba and their IT infrastructure to get on par with the rest of the world? No. It's a market, and a war between competitors. Cuba did well in giving this job to China.

  4. Multiple Choice Spying Options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just wondering if the US bid included a selection to let Cuba pick which of the range of available [free!] spying options would be bundled? ;)

    1. Re:Multiple Choice Spying Options? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Both bids had spying options bundled but Cuba preferred to be spied upon by China

  5. Communism or Capitalism by Roodvlees · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They probably agree on communistic principles. But currently China is more competitive than the USA, since that market is divided in monopolies by bought politicians.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    1. Re:Communism or Capitalism by Zocalo · · Score: 1

      Some potentially interesting implications with Cuba getting into bed with China though. Given historical ties with Russia (or rather the USSR) and the high probability that Cuba would look the other way regarding the numerous sanctions in place against Russia due to the involvement in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine it seems like Russia has lost out on some major opportunities here, not least the ability to get a bit of a PR coup and rattle the cages of some of the more hawkish US political/military crowd. Presumably the stronger long term prospects of the Chinese and any concessions they may have offered won out for Cuba, but you have to wonder what China's long term game plan is here and how badly the US will react when they finally realise what it is - or when Chinese naval vessels start arriving in the Caribbean.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    2. Re:Communism or Capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Add to this that russia isn't known for its semiconductor tech and networking equipment.

    3. Re:Communism or Capitalism by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 1

      Given historical ties with Russia (or rather the USSR) and the high probability that Cuba would look the other way regarding the numerous sanctions in place against Russia due to the involvement in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine it seems like Russia has lost out on some major opportunities here, not least the ability to get a bit of a PR coup and rattle the cages of some of the more hawkish US political/military crowd.

      Putin's Russia has nothing to offer Cuba in terms of infrastructure. Russia main technology export is weapons, which won't be of much use to Cuba in any serious confrontation with the US.

  6. China learned the foreign aid lesson from the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In the Cold War era (and still applies now), the US gave a lot of "Foreign Aid" money to many countries around the world. "Foreign Aid" in quotes because, often, the money just went the pocket of corrupt government officials, and the people in the country got what's left, if any. The result is a lot of money spent, a lot of corrupt officials made rich but very little goodwill generated among the common people.

    China obviously did their homework. Instead of just giving out money, they are building visible infrastructure projects around the less-developed countries in world, either as foreign aid if the host country accepts, or by "bidding" for infrastructure projects. "Bidding" in quotes because when you don't even try to make a profit and bundle in free financing package to boot, others can't really compete with you at all. Then the common people will see Chinese companies and workers building infrastructure for their benefit, generating goodwill.

    I wouldn't be surprised to learn the details of this successful "bid" may include 100% financing by China, probably at low interest, so Cuba don't have to pay a dime upfront. The money used for this would be a much better investment for China than buying US Bonds.

  7. Let's not forget by wbr1 · · Score: 1

    Potential gubbmint backdoors. Cuba would prefer China's to America's I'm sure.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Let's not forget by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

      The Castro's will eventually die off of old age, and Cuba will be left as nothing more than a geo-political pawn to be used by other more powerful nations. I have no doubt that at some point, the Cubans will sellout -to some nation- to maintain this geopolitical advantage. The US would naturally like to keep Cuba under its sphere of influence as a future US Territory, but Cuba will only listen to the nation that brings in the largest cash flow.

      The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Let's not forget by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      The US would naturally like to keep Cuba under its sphere of influence

      "Keep"? What the hell are you talking about?

      By maintaining the embargo and having no diplomatic ties, Cuba hasn't been "under its sphere of influence" in decades.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Let's not forget by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

      True, but at one point it was prior to the revolution. I'm sure US foreign policy sees this as but a temporary loss in influence to be regained at a future date; hence "keep".

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    4. Re:Let's not forget by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      +++ But this is pretty much always true of small nations. Unless you have money (Switzerland) or guns (Switzerland) or are just lucky for a while (Iceland, the Nordic states after WW II) or can group together to pretend to be a big country (European Union) you will always dance to somebody else' tune.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Let's not forget by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Yes, well, I think first America is going to have to come to terms with what the meaning of their "influence" was besides as effectively an occupying colonial power. It's now 50 years later, and if they think they're going back to controlling a benign dictator who was happy to fuck over the Cubans in exchange for Americans being able to profit ... well, I don't see that happening.

      Though, as usual, America is already planning on how to carve up the land and the profits.

      Which tells me what Americans think will happen is as cluelessly out of touch as when they were planning on how Iraq was going to pay them billions in oil money for liberating them. An awful lot of elected officials in the US were practically counting that money before they went in.

      You say "keep", I say "operating under the delusion they ever had any legitimacy there or that Cubans want that again".

      By "keep" you mean propping up a ruthless self appointed dictator to act as a puppet for US interests ... only to find a new, ruthless self appointed dictator acting not in US interests.

      Stop pretending that "influence" is your natural right, and start listening. The Cubans don't hate Americans .. but they sure as hell don't want to be told by Americans what to do next.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  8. Re:Obama loses even when he wins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So it is Pres. Obama's fault that it is not any easier to do business in Cuba? Who was it again that turned Cuba into a testosterone test of who can be meaner and thus a bigger "man?" I seem to recall it was a different party who was howling at any mention of doing any sort of business with Cuba. Now it is Obama's fault that the US cannot sell anything to Cuba. Right.

  9. Re:Cuba is for sheeps. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could someone explain this meme to me? I usually see it with cows going moo. In any case it seems more like something that you'd see on 4chan etc, yet it is on /., so I'm wondering what exactly it is...

  10. knock down the fanatics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't read too much into anything. Your ability to understand the macroscopic relationships at play in the global community will only lead you to new world order conspiracies or other false beliefs. You do not know the motivations or facts in relation to this situation unless you personally possess documents or have held discussions.

    What I personally do know is that my life is going well, but investments are all down despite a relatively diversified portfolio, in times where the position of western nations is questioned, yet the situation is blamed on the Chinese economy.

    What I also know is that of the countries that actually supply data, every single country is in debt, to the cost of at least $20,000 per person on earth. To who? That is the difficult question when you begin the research. Webs of shell companies controlled by usurers skim money from the little man, yet there is no publicly listed way of figuring out how to earn from the foolishry of the people and their governments. You must be part of the in crowd. The billionaires, who in times of recession grow their earnings thousandfold.

    Cuba should do everything they can to keep the fangs of the usurers at bay.

    By the way, I know nothing and I'm drunks.

    1. Re:knock down the fanatics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I randomly ran across this last night, so there's a least one:

      San Marino

  11. Let the land grabing begin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let the land grabing begin.
    Anyone, who think that US or China helps someone "just because" is either a complete moron or is part of the scam.

  12. What will be funny... by Drakonblayde · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is when the average Cuban has better bandwidth than the average US Citizen because they actually decided to build infrastructure

    1. Re:What will be funny... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

      Yeah! We're number 16! We're number 16!

      American exceptionalism for the "win"...

      --
      That is all.
    2. Re:What will be funny... by Translation+Error · · Score: 0

      Well, in fairness, Cuba does have slightly less area to cover.

      --
      When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
    3. Re:What will be funny... by dave420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If size is the problem, then why aren't US cities the best in the world for internet access? They have lots of money, many subscribers, and manageable amounts of space.

      Stop making excuses for the chain cluster-fuck that is US internet infrastructure. The more you keep hand-waiving it away the longer it will exist.

    4. Re:What will be funny... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Well, at least it's not a prime number.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:What will be funny... by Translation+Error · · Score: 1

      The problem behind the state of US internet access doesn't exist; there are many problems. Building proper infrastructure for an area the size of the US is still an enormously greater undertaking than doing so for an area the size of Cuba, though. The fact that US cities have lousy access is due to a number of other issues and in no way changes the reality that covering 3,805,927 sq mi is a bigger deal than covering 42,426 sq mi.

      --
      When someone says, "Any fool can see ..." they're usually exactly right.
    6. Re:What will be funny... by lpress · · Score: 1

      Is when the average Cuban has better bandwidth than the average US Citizen because they actually decided to build infrastructure

      That will take a while -- Cuba is one of the least connected countries in the world and they are making a big deal of making slow DSL "available" to half their homes by 2020.

      That being said, there are good reasons for them to remain independent -- I wouldn't wish Comcast or TWC on anyone.

  13. Makes sense considering by sabbede · · Score: 1

    both nations' attitudes towards government control of information (a.k.a. censorship) and activity monitoring (a.k.a. spying). Working with China means accessing Chinese expertise in controlling access to information and restricting communication. And of course they're both highly corrupt pseudo-communist states, so they have that in common too.

    1. Re:Makes sense considering by Legal.Troll · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you don't support the glorious revolution to end oppression, comrade. Your views have been noted by the appropriate people, and appropriate actions will be taken.

      --
      "Outdated business models" is code for "I don't like paying for things, but want them anyway"
    2. Re:Makes sense considering by jodido · · Score: 1

      Evidence please? Do you have any actual facts about censorship in Cuba of the internet or are you just repeating what the State Department has been saying? For example can you name a specific site that is not accessible from Cuba? I thought not. In fact there is no comparison between Cuba and China, where there is enormous censorship. Just because both countries begin with the same letter as Censorship doesn't mean they both practice it.

    3. Re:Makes sense considering by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      For example can you name a specific site that is not accessible from Cuba?

      Yeah, all of them you autistic hillbilly. The infrastructure isn't place yet, hence the need for people to bid on it. But since you clearly need things written out in crayon here it is: "That means that Cuba doesn't have internet access. There is nothing for them to censor. They would not have the equipment to filter traffic because there would be nothing to plug it into."

      When people here talk about the decline of Slashdot, please remember that they are referring specifically to you and your psuedo-intellectual ilk. Believe it or not I'm actually a pretty fair person, even online. I actively try to filter out possible mistakes and simple misapprehensions when I respond to people. But holy shit, asking for non-applicable proof of a non-existent dataset is a whole new brand of stupidity for me. Your 'challenge' here is as equally stupid as asking for proof that the US doesn't let you own a Unicorn as a pet. You're probably one of those people with a very high I.Q. aren't you?

    4. Re:Makes sense considering by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      You're probably one of those people with a very high I.Q. aren't you?

      Is the answer No?

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    5. Re:Makes sense considering by sabbede · · Score: 1
      You're kidding, right?

      https://freedomhouse.org/repor...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      https://www.washingtonpost.com...

      etc.

  14. Re:Fuck China by Flavianoep · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yey! Lots of sex for China!

    --
    Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
  15. If this is winning... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They financed Cuba's cable? Doesn't sound like much of a win to me. Who better to set up the authoritarian Cuban network than the Chicoms?

    1. Re:If this is winning... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      They financed Cuba's cable? Doesn't sound like much of a win to me. Who better to set up the authoritarian Cuban network than the Chicoms?

      We have a winner. My assumption was that China will get the deal by default since they know how to set up a censorious and more easily spied upon network.

      --
      Do you have ESP?
  16. Re:Obama loses even when he wins by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    Who was it again that turned Cuba into a testosterone test of who can be meaner and thus a bigger "man?"

    Let's see, well it was JFK (Democrat) who first instituted the embargo of Cuba..Oh look than that "conservative" Bill Clinton expanded the economic embargo. What was Obama's party again?

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  17. econ 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With what money. The communists print money, they don't create value. When it comes to value they redistribute it through the inefficiency of government and destroy it.

    Without an economy based on creation of value, nobody is buying anything.

  18. We thought they'd buy U.S. equipment because? by sasparillascott · · Score: 1

    Why in the world, with all the post Snowden knowledge of U.S. backbone equipment makers being compromised by, if not working hand in hand with the NSA, would anyone expect the Cuban's to buy from U.S. suppliers? You'd have to assume that if the suppliers weren't in cahoots with the NSA to begin with that the NSA would intercept the equipment and bug it directly prior to delivery. Especially with U.S. history there.

    Now it would be expected that the Chinese equipment is probably back doored as well, however the Cuban's probably mind that alot less than U.S. based compromised equipment.

  19. Re:And I thought Cuba was such a paradise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    enforced by good Ole American Free market Capitalism you dont buy our shit and have all your industries onwd by American 'Flagged' corps' then you dont buy anyone's shit just to show the USA has \is the biggest prick.

  20. Re: Cuba is for sheeps. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    User sexconker once didn't post anonymously, so I think it started with him, but this seems to be an imitator.

  21. Re:Fuck China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so your poor rising homeless population have electricty and running water?

  22. Donald here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Them chinkers devalued their currency! They're stealing our lunch!

  23. Re:China learned the foreign aid lesson from the U by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... "Foreign Aid" in quotes because, often, the money just went the pocket of corrupt government officials ...

    Or it went on military hardware, a common result of international welfare. Or the money could only be 'spent' in the USA, which was popular with certain aid agencies. Such a rule gave the USA a monopoly of course, resulting in higher prices for whatever the country did buy.

  24. Re:China learned the foreign aid lesson from the U by ITRambo · · Score: 1

    Selling out the US public began with Nixon's administration. The economic ball has been rolling downhill in China's direction for decades.

  25. China owns the third world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're taking American consumer dollars from demand for cheap products, and using those dollars well; buying up mines and resources in Africa, and now basically owning Cuba, and Latin America.

    Enjoy your $29 DVD player, Middle America.

    Teach your kids to use chopsticks, they'll need them.

  26. Re:Cuba is for sheeps. by _merlin · · Score: 1

    I spend a lot of time on 4chan, and trust me this is a far lower standard of copy-pasta than what you see there. I think it's a poor imitation of the GNAA tactics in the heyday of Slashdot. They'd write "press releases" and make them tangentially related to the story they were commenting on or current events in world news. Sometimes they'd repurpose a troll by changing it slightly to fit in with a different story. It's just a far lamer version of that. Trolling has devolved along with everything else here.

  27. A documentary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I recently watched a documentary, made several years ago, on the Cuban lifestyle. Besides the 1950s automobiles, three other things stood out. The absence of advertising (the word translates as 'commercial propaganda' in Cuba). The small living quarters and spartan, chunky furniture. Against this was a recent model fridge and laptop.

    Remember, no US trade meant no American music and no US-style copyright enforcement. That will be the first thing to change. They pirated American movies though, I've heard.

    Cuba has a national office of sex education, run by Raoul Castro's daughter. Which other country has a permanent commitment to sex and gender issues affecting men?

  28. Re:Obama loses even when he wins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, check again, the first of the embargo's against Cuba were instituted under Eisenhower so you are literally incorrect there, and the Helms–Burton Act was named after Jesse Helms and Dan Burton for a reason. It did pass with enough of a margin that Clinton's veto might have been overridden, and I doubt he saw it as important enough to push the issue. It certainly wasn't a policy drive of his, and he did make use of the waiver provisions.

    And a few years later, the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act was instituted as well, though still under Clinton.

    But no, do keep up with the mindless mindless mindless mindless blaming everything, everything, everything, everything, on Democrats.

  29. bullshit non story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So companies that are legally not allowed to do business with Cuba are behind other businesses? No fucking shit.

  30. And this is a problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Average American only uses more than a megabit a second for video. I guess if Netflix adoption rate is important, then America is lagging Cuba.

  31. I guess China is a leader in internet censorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't think of it that way, but China is a world leader in internet censorship. I wonder how much Cuba values that expertise?

  32. Re:China learned the foreign aid lesson from the U by Spamalope · · Score: 1

    Also, it will be China's communication equipment. It will have intercept capabilities built in for the use of China's intelligence agencies. While they'd have little interest in Cubans, they anticipate American tourists soon. Corporate espionage may be profitable enough to offset China's costs...

  33. Re:And not a single fuck was given by dave420 · · Score: 1

    "We"?

  34. Angst incoming by wkwilley2 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure the Cuban infrastructure is already better than what Verizon provides for me in Maryland. >. It's not even 1/4 broadband......

    --
    Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
  35. Dave420 "eats his words" (lol, again) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "it patently clear no-one else agrees with your position" - by dave420 (699308) on Friday September 25, 2015 @04:44AM (#50595241)

    Here's some that are QUITE contrary to yours from /. users + experts in the field:

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

    "I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

    &

    "his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

    ---

    * Let's see - a TOP antimalware company hosts AND RECOMMENDS my ware, & real users here like it - you're outnumbered, outthought, & OUTSMARTED, easily as usual, by "yours truly"...

    APK

    P.S.=> To top all THAT off? Better people that a "ne'er-do-well" MORON troll who's never accomplished a thing of good note in computing in yourself AGREE with me hosts are good security:

    Quote of Aryeh Goretsky of NOD32/ESET doing so in fact -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

    You UTTER blowhard do nothing "ne'er-do-well" troll... "eat your words" & tell us:

    HOW DID THEY TASTE?

    Flavored with the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat" since your mouth wrote checks your dimwit brain can't cash? Rammed down YOUR THROAT since you stuck your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH too?? LMAO...

    ... apk

  36. China wins no matter what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The stuff is all made in China anyway.

  37. Re:And not a single fuck was given by Karmashock · · Score: 1

    ...Yep. We.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  38. Re:China learned the foreign aid lesson from the U by lpress · · Score: 1

    Then the common people will see Chinese companies and workers building infrastructure for their benefit, generating goodwill.

    The Chinese role in Cuba has been different than in Africa, where Chinese companies and Chinese workers build roads, etc. The Chinese were involved in financing and installing Cuba's udersea cable, but on the island China has been an equipment vendor with Cubans installing and running the networks.

    I wouldn't be surprised to learn the details of this successful "bid" may include 100% financing by China, probably at low interest, so Cuba don't have to pay a dime upfront.

    China has at times had problems collecting Cuban debt. (See the Wikileak quote in the post; however, it has been reported that they lent the money for the undersea cable then participated in its installation. That does sound like the US -- give or loan money to be used to purchase products from US companies. A sweet deal for the US companies.