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Motorola Marketed the Moto E 2015 On Promise of Updates, Stops After 219 Days

Posted by Soulskill on from the bait-and-switch dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Over the past few years, Motorola has emerged as one of the best manufacturers for low-to-mid-range Android phones. Unlike many other major manufacturers, they keep their version of Android close to stock in order to keep OS updates flowing more easily. When they began marketing the Moto E 2015, updates were one of the features they trumpeted the loudest. But after the company published a list of devices that will continue to get updates, Android Police found the Moto E to be conspicuously absent. The phone launched on February 25, a mere 219 days ago. According to an official Motorola marketing video from launch day, "...we won't forget about you, and we'll make sure your Moto E stays up to date after you buy it."

123 comments

  1. That was then, this is now by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They already got money from the current customers so why continue to pander to them? Now they want new customers with new wallets to extract money from.

    This is standard business practice in many places. New customers make you money but old customers are a drain on your financials.

    1. Re:That was then, this is now by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 1

      New customers make you money but old customers are a drain on your financials.

      And old customers will bitch and complain, but will succumb to the sunk costs fallacy since they have the device, and just continue to pay. It's easier to bitch than to actually take your business elsewhere, and people don't like to believe they have been suckered.

      --

      Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

      Vote for Bernie in 2016!

    2. Re: That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It wasn't standard for Motorola. This looks like Lenovo's influence.

    3. Re: That was then, this is now by melios · · Score: 3, Informative

      As someone who bought the Motorola i1 with Android 1.5 on the promise of updates it never received, I'd have to disagree.

    4. Re: That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DroidX. Nice phone. Pretty much only a couple of updates for stability... Next phone went with a company known to actually update 2 generations back...

    5. Re:That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... old customers are a drain on your financials.

      Which is why consumer protection legislation exists; so corporations have more responsibility than profit mongering.

      Providing support for less than 1 year is a breach of legislated responsibility in most countries. I was hoping this was an administrative mistake but it seems Motorola has done this before. Under free market behaviour this can go 2 ways: Customers can change to products that provide the de facto behaviour of 18 months support. (Provided to appease countries legislating 2 years of support.) Or other manufacturers can copy Motorola and reduce support to 1 year.

    6. Re: That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why bother buying a premium brand when your not getting a premium product.

      I prefer to buy DOOGEE smartphone. have decent specs. Provide regular updates are not networked locked. I even updated from KitKat to just by dwl firmware from website. Apart from lollipop all updates where ota.

      Check them out at DOOGEE.CC and m.DX.com

    7. Re: That was then, this is now by tyr · · Score: 2

      As someone who bought the Motorola i1 with Android 1.5 on the promise of updates it never received, I'd have to disagree.

      I tend to agree with melios here, Moto did the same thing with the Photon 4G, right around the time Google acquired them (so that they could play the lost in the shuffle game). Locked it down hard on the way out too. Sadly, while they make excellent hardware, software after the sale has been hit or miss. I bought a Samsung Galaxy S3 after they did that, and as much as I want Moto quality hardware, I'll not be buying from them again.

    8. Re:That was then, this is now by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IMO since we're entering the IoE (Internet of Everything) age, I think it's probably worth having some kind of legislation that every company that sells a consumer product that is network connected must provide free security updates for a minimum of 5 years after the device's end of manufacture date (i.e. when the last batch of product hits channel.) If not, we're looking at a new era where the whole world is under a constant threat of botnet DDoS, spam, and identity theft.

      This could be enforced with hefty fines and civil liability in the event the device owners are targeted after 90 days of a known exploit and no patch is available. If they can't patch it, then a recall is required. If the company folds, then whoever buys the biggest portion of its assets assumes responsibility. If it folds and nobody buys its assets, then the source code for all components (including signing keys) must be released to an escrow company (no, open sourcing it all isn't practical for various reasons) that can fulfill the security updates for the remainder of the 5 year period. The escrow service would be paid by some kind of insurance (or bond) that must be paid prior to the company being legally allowed to sell network capable products to consumers within the US.

    9. Re:That was then, this is now by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      New customers make you money but old customers are a drain on your financials.

      And old customers will bitch and complain, but will succumb to the sunk costs fallacy since they have the device, and just continue to pay. It's easier to bitch than to actually take your business elsewhere, and people don't like to believe they have been suckered.

      Except those of us considering buying a new phone will hear the old customers' bitching and complaining, and decide y'know what, let's buy something else.

      Old customers stop being a drain on your financials the moment they start spreading negative word-of-mouth about your product.

    10. Re:That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already got money from the current customers so why continue to pander to them? Now they want new customers with new wallets to extract money from.

      This is standard business practice in many places. New customers make you money but old customers are a drain on your financials.

      And for those manufacturers who are constantly trying to turn one-time costs monthly recurring fees forever, I have one thing to say to them and the idea that "old" customers are a drain; Fuck You Very Much.

      I'll gladly go elsewhere to find an Android solution. Unlike Apple, I have my choice of vendors, which is something that Android vendors should fucking remember.

    11. Re:That was then, this is now by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 2

      Doing all this requires people to actually give a fuck. If they don't care to leave the carrier for another provider and are content to just bitch, nothing will get done. No one cares to move this off center, and the companies KNOW this.

      --

      Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

      Vote for Bernie in 2016!

    12. Re:That was then, this is now by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 1

      Except those of us considering buying a new phone will hear the old customers' bitching and complaining, and decide y'know what, let's buy something else.

      Old customers stop being a drain on your financials the moment they start spreading negative word-of-mouth about your product.

      But where are you going to go? It's not like Verizon, AT&T and the others have stellar reputations for not violating their customer agreements. They are all trying to outdo each other in screwing their customers out of their dollars without losing their contracts.

      Signing up for cell service in the U.S. is like going to federal PMITA prison. You're going to be someone's bitch, that's for certain, so you chose the one that beats you the least often.

      --

      Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

      Vote for Bernie in 2016!

    13. Re: That was then, this is now by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      Fantastic though..

      I assume you are happy with the price of your devices going up 5 to 10 times to allow for this mandatory support, possibly more as they will need liability insurance thanks to your requirements.
      Of course the dodgy ones will just shut down every 6 months to remove their liability leaving everyone high and dry..

      Sounds like consumer heaven??

    14. Re:That was then, this is now by davester666 · · Score: 3, Informative

      And yet Apple has the longest update policy of all phone manufacturers of any significant volume [there might be one or two outliers that provide updates for longer than Apple does, but they only sell a very small number of phones].

      The iPhone 4S I bought new in 2011, then passed onto my dad, is still supported by iOS 9 [started with iOS 5].

      With Android, you do have a choice of vendors. Roughly equally poor vendors [w.r.t. updating their software].

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    15. Re:That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because in this very competitive environment they really really need the repeat customers.

      I've had an Xperia tablet almost a month after it's release and it STILL gets updates. Because of that, when time came, I bought an Xperia phone to replace my HTC.

    16. Re:That was then, this is now by postmortem · · Score: 1

      And you don't get repeat customers as a consequence. Motorola should know this the best.

    17. Re:That was then, this is now by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2
      Right. In the UK, the sale of goods act (which was strengthened last week and extended to cover downloads and a few other things) permits you to return a product as not suitable for the purpose for which sold. That means that not doing anything promised in the ads is grounds for a full refund. Just mentioning the relevant law on a call to their support line was enough for Apple to courier a new battery out to me (which arrived at 9am the next morning) for a 3.5-year-old (our of warranty) MacBook Pro, because it was only holding 20% of its rated maximum charge and the discharge counter was significantly below the 300 charge cycles that their support pages claimed.

      If someone buys a phone based on the promise of long-term support, but doesn't receive it, then they are entitled to a full refund from the seller, who is then entitled to a full refund from the manufacturer (and less likely to keep selling phones from a manufacturer if they get too many returns). I'd slightly disagree with this claim though:

      Which is why consumer protection legislation exists; so corporations have more responsibility than profit mongering.

      Corporations are expected to continue profit mongering, the goal of consumer protection legislation is to align incentives so that failing to take responsibility hurts the profits more than taking responsibility. Having to issue individual refunds to every Moto E customer would cost a lot more than back-porting security fixes and pushing out updates. Especially when you include the accompanying news articles.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re: That was then, this is now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely sounds like consumer heaven! At the very least, it is better than not knowing what the f**k. As things currently stand you have no guarantee. This is already a requirement for most physical equipment, why should it be any different for software? In order to legally market a car, an automaker needs to guarantee the availability of spare parts for at least 10 years. The only thing that changes is the time spare parts need to be available for.

      Also, history shows that you pulled at 5 to 10 times more money for the same device out of your ass. You also pulled the thing about dodgey manufacturers out of the same place. Your post is just a plethora of misinformation and FUD.

    19. Re:That was then, this is now by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I think it's probably worth having some kind of legislation that every company that sells a consumer product that is network connected must provide free security updates for a minimum of 5 years after the device's end of manufacture date

      People will stop introducing new models. Or, to be more precise, companies exposed to this legislation (e.g. ones with an official import channel to the (checks, yes, that's your country) USA, or which manufacture or sell there, will stop releasing new models where they are exposed to this liability.

      If you grey-import, you'll get no support.

      Law of unintended consequences - if your consequences were unintended.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    20. Re: That was then, this is now by piojo · · Score: 1

      I assume you are happy with the price of your devices going up 5 to 10 times

      You just made that up. For that to be true, the cost of software development would have to be 100% of the cost of the device, and the current development time would need to be 6 months to one year. Realistically, if software development makes up 10% of the cost of the device, is completed in six months, and the support period is extended from nothing to 5 years (at 40% effort, since there's not always a new operating system to support, and since code can be shared with newer devices), the cost would increase by 50%. And that's being generous.

      But instead, you assert that supporting an existing device costs twice as much as creating a new one every year? Fucking come on.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
  2. They have your money... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have your money already when you bought the phone, there is no incentive to improve it.

    1. Re:They have your money... by danbob999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they don't want to sell any phone again, then you are right.

  3. lawsuits....3...2...1...go! by itzdandy · · Score: 2

    Here's the thing, if a company says something to entice a purchase, they are likely to be sued and give refunds to everyone that purchased based on those promises.

    1. Re:lawsuits....3...2...1...go! by chiefcrash · · Score: 1

      Just like the Sony PS3 "Other OS" debacle!

      oh wait...

      --
      Show me on the 1st Amendment bobblehead where the moderator touched you...
    2. Re:lawsuits....3...2...1...go! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish.
      This is not the first time Motorola has done this *exact same thing*.
      Just google "motorola photon 4g".
      - They *promised* ICS for it in their marketing materials (they being *both* Motorola *and* Sprint)
      - they published it on their list of phones that would get ICS
      - then they pushed an OTA that *locked all the phones*
      - then they removed it from the update list and completely abandoned it, merely 1 year after this supposed flagship model was released.

      *and they completely got away with it.*

      no class action
      no lawsuits
      no FTC fines
      nothing

      MOFOS.

      I wouldn't care nearly as much if they'd just unlock them so we could flash a newer OS. Android 2.3 is way too old to use for anything outside the safety of a controlled local lan.

    3. Re:lawsuits....3...2...1...go! by itzdandy · · Score: 1

      difference is that Sony never really promoted 'other os' as a specific selling point. Motorola used it directly in their marketing.

  4. Money makes the world go round. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    False advertising as hell. I think they run $60 for verizons $45 montly unlimited plan 1GB or 2GB data. It is a really good deal though but you cant "multitask" without having to refresh the window you switched out of though.
    Problem is its too damm expensive to have a phone with data now.

    Straight talks $45 unlimited plan with 5GB data is what I wish I could have kept but the GPS would always loose its signal on a Note 3 I had.

    1. Re:Money makes the world go round. by orasio · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The advertising said you would have at least one update. There was one.
      The claim was fulfilled that's not false advertising. Specially not for such a cheap phone, that already has Android 5.1

    2. Re:Money makes the world go round. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: it has 5.1 in the US it seems.

      In Germany at least it doesn't even have that update. And any information about updating to 5.1 seem to have quietly vanished from Motorolas support site.

      Sure, I was in the market for a cheapish phone, but if the e 2nd doesn't even get 5.1, I'm sure not to ever buy a Motorola phone ever again. I can hold a grudge like that (still hate M$ for the way they ascended to power in the 90s, I can hold a grudge for a very long time).

  5. Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by vivek7006 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Moto E is a low end phone. Maybe it doesn't not satisfy the Marshmallow hardware requirements?

    1. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marshmallow requirements haven't gone up. It's definitely even more efficient than 5.x

    2. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by erice · · Score: 2

      Moto E is a low end phone. Maybe it doesn't not satisfy the Marshmallow hardware requirements?

      Plausible. The Moto E has only 1GB of RAM. However, Moto X 2013 is also missing from the Marshmallow list. It has 2GB just like the 2014 model, which is on the list.

    3. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by feranick · · Score: 2

      Moto E 2015 uses the same processor (snapdragon 410) and RAM of the 2015 Moto G, which is getting the update. This is just plain lame from Motorola.

    4. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Moto E is a low end phone. Maybe it doesn't not satisfy the Marshmallow hardware requirements?

      There's no reason why Marshmallow would consume notably more resources than Lollipop. If it did, it would consume only more memory. The Moto E 2nd has no less RAM than the Moto G 2nd, which is getting Marshmallow.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      only 1 GB

      jesus christ

      we used to run entire operating systems with significantly better functionality on machines with half that ram...

    6. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      OS updates are not that important for Android, as long as they are providing security updates.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Hardware requirements for Marshmallow? by chefren · · Score: 1

      The Moto G2 will get the update and it also has 1Gb of RAM.

  6. Vote with your wallet... by wbr1 · · Score: 1

    Buy a nexus or GPE edition phone, even a good used one. Alternatively get any popular model that has an active ROM community and contribute back to it.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So glad I resisted all the other phones this year and wait for the new Nexuses.

    2. Re: Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure, I'll buy a GPE phone... Oh wait, Google cancelled that program. MicroSD-free Nexus is the only option. No thanks, might be time to consider switching platforms when my S4 (stuck on KitKat) dies.

    3. Re:Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I voted with my wallet. I bought an iphone. 5s - Got it launch day September 20th 2013

      Just over 2 years old. Installed iOS 9.0.2 the other day- Scheduled the install for the middle of the night while I was sleeping.

      Of course, I could have stuck with my 4s... That's still currently supported. Launched early october 2011 - Just under 4 years old and it too can run iOS 9.0.2.

    4. Re:Vote with your wallet... by Samuel+Dravis · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly. I've used Nexus devices single the Galaxy Nexus, and I do not understand anyone who does not use the reference device wanting Android updates in a timely manner. If you go with a carrier, expect to be used for profit during the current fiscal year.

    5. Re: Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the nexus devices don't have WiFi calling... A must-have feature for international travel.

    6. Re: Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your an idiot. Just use any VoIP app

    7. Re: Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tmobile nexus 6 has wifi calling

    8. Re:Vote with your wallet... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Buy a nexus or GPE edition phone, even a good used one. Alternatively get any popular model that has an active ROM community and contribute back to it.

      Speaking as someone who just made a donation (via XDA-devs) to someone who's maintaining the only active Transformer Prime ROM (which is actually someone else's tf300t rom repacked with a tf201 kernel) you can only get so far that way. The only reason I can even have lollipop and not merely jellybean (not even kk!) is that Asus decided to kick out one last tablet using the same chipset, a cost-reduced version of the same tablet in fact, and they brought out lollipop for that. But there will be no marshmallow, and I can only take consolation knowing that my Moto G 2nd will just sneak in there.

      I also owned a Sony Xperia Play, Sony abandoned that device at gingerbread after promising all Xperia devices would get at least ICS. There's actually JB roms because other later phones used the same SoC at higher clock rates, but the stuff that makes the phone special is flaky under anything but Gingerbread and no amount of community support can fix that. Of course, it's a non-issue today. That's an ancient platform now. Nobody would try to game on such a thing if they were sensible. (I could still use it to play playstation games and to run other emulators, but it doesn't play woxl so I use it as a desk clock. I bought the audio dock way back when.)

      I would bet on the Nexus phone, and hopefully the next one coming out will have a card slot, there are rumors. We'll see. That would probably entice me back, though. (I followed my failing N4 with a Moto G 2nd, the lower RAM is a bit annoying but otherwise it's plenty of phone.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Vote with your wallet... by Visarga · · Score: 1

      Not about Motorola, but same problem: I am ditching my Samsung Note 3 that was not updated to Lollipop (weird reason, bought from ebay and was imported from a different country, so, fuck Samsung for not allowing me to upgrade my os!) and buying a Nexus 6P as soon as it appears in my country. I want an updated phone, not an old clunk a couple of years from now.

      Samsung has hundreds of devices, each with multiple versions, spread over hundreds of mobile network operators and even though Note 3 was supposed to update, mine slipped through the cracks. At least that's my theory. I hate that I have to suffer so that Samsung can make its sweet deals and install various un-installable crapware for each vendor. My phone should not be a card Samsung plays in order to get more money from other companies.

      Note 3 rant: I also hate the brain dead lock screen that doesn't have a decent swipe. It always wakes up in my pocket. I set it to pattern lock, but there is a stupid "emergency dial" button that can't be disabled and is always reacting to unintended touches. I think Apple might have a patent to the swipe "technology" and blocks Samsung from offering it. Instead, the whole screen is a swipe zone and any place you touch could unlock the damn thing. Stupid Samsung. You lost a customer. The phone was great hardware-wise.

    10. Re:Vote with your wallet... by stephanruby · · Score: 0

      I voted with my wallet. I bought an iphone. 5s - Got it launch day September 20th 2013

      Just over 2 years old. Installed iOS 9.0.2 the other day- Scheduled the install for the middle of the night while I was sleeping.

      Of course, I could have stuck with my 4s... That's still currently supported. Launched early october 2011 - Just under 4 years old and it too can run iOS 9.0.2.

      Poor guy! He's obviously never getting Lollipop or Marshmallow.

      Next time, don't be such a cheapskate, and get yourself an Xperia Z2 or an HTC M8.

      They cost more than iPhones, but you get what you pay for.

    11. Re:Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A shit battery, shit camera, and you have to run Android?

      No thanks.

    12. Re:Vote with your wallet... by kb7oeb · · Score: 1

      I used to have that phone, for me it wasn't the touch screen that would wake the phone but the giant home button under the screen. I traded it for a Nexus 6 the day it was an option on Verizon.

    13. Re: Vote with your wallet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're

    14. Re:Vote with your wallet... by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      The Xperia Z series of phones have the best camera modules on the market bar none. They are also at least to some extent water resistant as well.

  7. nothing new to see here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    seriously, there is nothing new to see here!

    Motorola can go f***k itself! (pre, during and post google)

    Love my Motorola Photon Q, but its been stripped down to DriveRecorder duty's instead of my main phone... seriously, 7 (or was it 8...) months of updates, then BAM, abandoned!

    Have the PhotonQ/DeskDock/VehicleDock...

  8. Lenovo... by Kennon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Motorola, brought to you by the same parent company that gave you Superfish and adware injections from the BIOS on fresh Windows OS installs...I'm sorry, are you surprised? You must be new here. :-)

    --
    "All those moments, will be lost in time...like tears in rain..."
    1. Re:Lenovo... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The reaction by the Parent of Android will also change as various manufacturers do damage to the brand of Android. You could likely see the creation of a new branding system ie badging specific phones as Android upgradeable. So phones that stick closer to the Android core and more open drivers, this to enable Google to directly update those phones via the play store, advantages for Google, it gets more people to the play store checking for updates to their phone (so get them in the shop door and keep them there), it strengthens the brand of Android and it gives Google the opportunity to sell another service, the updating of software for Android phones freeing some manufacturers from needing to do it.

      It is pretty obvious that the current method of forcing smart phones into being disposable products is by welding self destructing batteries in place and thus ensuring the death of that phone/tablet and thus also blocking resale. This in turn will eventually force new regulations blocking this tactic (a truly insane abuse of planetary resources) and ensure a longer consumer life for those products.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:Lenovo... by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      It is pretty obvious that the current method of forcing smart phones into being disposable products is by welding self destructing batteries in place and thus ensuring the death of that phone/tablet and thus also blocking resale. This in turn will eventually force new regulations blocking this tactic (a truly insane abuse of planetary resources) and ensure a longer consumer life for those products.

      It's also blocking some basic useful procedures for dealing with a brick-y smart phone--mine came out last year, and I can and will cheerfully pop the back off so I can pull its battery.

      In my experience, though, that and the occasional travel/storage situation where for safety reasons you want to pop the battery (if nothing else so if it dies horribly it does so somewhat quietly) are the reasons to complain about the current tendency to not have batteries user-accessible. I've only had one phone that managed to actually outlast the battery it came with, and it didn't do that by much--if you want to complain about wastes of resources here, a failure to make recycling dead smartphones easy is a better thing to point to. (It might be worthwhile to require that phone companies be legally responsible for recycling phones locked to their systems--odds are, they'd prefer to unlock your phone instead, but that's just as useful in its own way as phones that might have otherwise been tossed might be kept since the only real problem with said phone was who it was locked to.)

  9. Really? by sims+2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have a samsung convoy 3 (Not a smart phone) it was released August 29, 2013.
    The last update for it was released on April 2nd, 2015.

    That's 581 days of support if I never get another update.

    Don't mind me I'm just comparing rocks to lolipops.

    --
    Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    1. Re:Really? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 3, Informative

      My iPhone 5s was released Sept. 20, 2013 and will be receiving updates until at least next Sept.

      I never understood why they segmented the Android market so much. It would have been better for consumers if Google had a core that could be updated from Google and the various phone manufacturers put their custom software on top. There could be some system that would prevent roll-outs until the manufacturer tested any updates to the core on their phones. If they stopped checking then the update would go to the customer directly but with a huge warning about the phone/apps not working. The phone would need a way to restore the previous system easily.

      The whole fragmentation and not knowing when/if updates are coming is preventing me from checking out Android. That, plus all they seem to be pushing is the large phones, like Apple. I know what my handle says but Apple is moving away from their roots. I used to like the iPhone because it was intuitive and easy to use. But with each new "feature" they are making it more difficult to use. Instead of designing to make things easy to use in any situation they are building their apps and phones for certain use cases. I don't fit in their use cases. It didn't matter before. Now it does. And so Apple has gone from what I want to use to being just the best of the bunch.

    2. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google is working pretty hard to de-segment the android market by pushing more and more core services on to the app store. That way more things can get regular security updates. They made big strides in the 4s and 5 takes it even further.

      In the future it would be nice if, say, your phone ran a thin hypervisor bare metal and most of the OS was just a virtual container. Would make updates a breeze.

    3. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am actually considering buying an iPhone. Yes, yes you read that correctly. The problem is that I want it to integrate with my computers WELL. I use Linux or BSD exclusively these days. iTunes is not an option and I'd want to be able to back it up better than that. I also like to tweak, poke, and break stuff. However, I'm tired of the fragmented Android crap.

      It's either a Windows phone (which I actually hear good things about) or an iPhone.

      KGIII (It seems I have babbled enough today so AC it is - I'm not sure why the highest threshold for karma still requires a post limit but arbitrary limit is arbitrary.)

    4. Re:Really? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I never understood why they segmented the Android market so much.

      Android was accepted by OEMs and carriers alike because it pandered to them. It let them do the things they want to do, like bundling and locking down. But over time Google has made that model less feasible, and now phones tend to have less bundled shitware, and they also tend to have unlockable bootloaders. More and more functionality has been moved into Play Services so that it can be updated even when there is no OS update.

      And so Apple has gone from what I want to use to being just the best of the bunch.

      In order to use an iOS device as one would a normal computer, with freedom to choose software, one has to hack their way into it. If one is going to do that, why not just get a Nexus device? It will get updates for around as long as an iDevice, and you can also load alternate ROMs onto it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPhone 4S still gets updates, and they're from Fall 2011...

    6. Re: Really? by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      In order to use an iOS device as one would a normal computer, with freedom to choose software, one has to hack their way into it.

      I've never had to wait on my PC manufacturer nor the computer store to update my computer with the latest OS or security patches the way that Android users have to wait on both the OEM and carrier to update their OS. That's far from what a "normal computer" user expects.

      If one is going to do that, why not just get a Nexus device? It will get updates for around as long as an iDevice, and you can also load alternate ROMs onto it.

      iOS 9 supports the iPhone 4s released in September 2011. Does Google still support the Nexus released in 2011?

      "Loading alternate ROMs" isn't that "hacking your way into it?" "normal computer" users don't have to "load alternative" operating systems to get security updates.

    7. Re: Really? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I've never had to wait on my PC manufacturer nor the computer store to update my computer with the latest OS or security patches the way that Android users have to wait on both the OEM and carrier to update their OS.

      First, bringing up the computer store is a red herring. The store where you buy your phone has nothing to do with it. Second, if you bought a phone from a carrier that doesn't unlock your devices, that's your fuckup, similar to if you bought a device that the manufacturer would not unlock. Don't be a fuckup. Third, Apple makes it effectively impossible to support their abandoned devices, at least with some Android devices it is possible.

      "Loading alternate ROMs" isn't that "hacking your way into it?" "normal computer" users don't have to "load alternative" operating systems to get security updates.

      They do if they are running Windows XP and are unwilling to pay for a newer version of the OS. Android users may or may not get an update, but their updates are free.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Really? by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      I don't expect to use my iOS device as a normal computer. They were designed to be different devices with a different workflow and I'm happy to use them that way. If I need a computer then I'll use my computer. I haven't found apps for iOS that are good enough to replace desktop versions. Most of that is the limitations of the touch interface. For example, say I want to mark 50 of 300 RSS articles read. On the desktop it's quickly done with a click of the mouse, moving down to the other item, and a shift click to highlight the 50 items. There's no corresponding shift click on tablets so one is left with clicking all 50 items individually. I have a few news feeds that have a couple of 100 items a day and I don't always have time to read everything at one time.

      I've gotten past the time where I want to hack into everything to make them work. I used to be into Linux in a big way. But for the last 10 years I've had a Mac desktop because for the most part things work and when it doesn't, or the UI can't do things, I can go into a shell and let my UNIX background get my work done. It's been the solution for me, it doesn't sound like the solution for you. And that's fine. I don't want to convert you.

    9. Re: Really? by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      First, bringing up the computer store is a red herring. The store where you buy your phone has nothing to do with it.

      The store where you bought your computer is analogous to the carrier. You have to wait for both your manufacturer and your carrier to offer an update to your phone. This is true with even some Nexus devices. You had to wait for Verizon to update their version of the Nexus.

      Second, if you bought a phone from a carrier that doesn't unlock your devices, that's your fuckup, similar to if you bought a device that the manufacturer would not unlock. Don't be a fuckup.

      Your phone being unlocked by the carrier still doesn't mean you don't have to wait on the carrier and the manufacturer to update your device.

      Third, Apple makes it effectively impossible to support their abandoned devices, at least with some Android devices it is possible.

      It's possible to jailbreak every iPhone that has been abandoned by Apple. The latest iPhone that is not supported is the iPhone 4 released in 2010.

      They do if they are running Windows XP and are unwilling to pay for a newer version of the OS. Android users may or may not get an update, but their updates are free.

      So it's better to not have the option to update your OS than to have the option to pay for it? If you bought a computer with Windows 7 or Windows 8, Windows 10 and is a free upgrade.

      In other words, every Windows conputer sold since before the introduction of Android is eligible for a free upgrade.

  10. Fool Me Once, Shame on Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Moto did this way back with the Moto Droid Devour, an aluminum slideout-keyboard Android unit. They didn't even release enough updates to fix the many bugs it had, let alone an OS update. I swore off Moto devices from that point forward as I'll only be completely abandoned by a manufacturer once. I wouldn't even buy the Nexus 6 even though in theory that should see updates for years.

    To Moto E owners, I'm sorry and I feel your pain, you aren't the first and not the last to be burned by a phone manufacturer when they renege on promises.

    1. Re:Fool Me Once, Shame on Me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck finding a better manufacturer, they're all the same.

      Aftermarket support will continue of course but then you lose the only feature that makes a Moto worthwhile: Moto Voice

      One thing I liked about the old Moto devices like the original Droid is that they could run without a battery. Just plug in USB power and they could run off that alone. This was awesome and kept your battery healthy even if you were plugged in to the charger most of the time. Not sure if that applies to their current devices, which in the case of the Moto X you can't even remove the battery.

  11. Vista? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While Vista was a total piece of shit, M$ did something very similar.

    For Vista Ultimate purchases, M$ promised frequent content updates (the moving desktop) which lasted a few months. Then they crippled their Desktop and forgot about Vista entirely.

    You see the same thing with a lot of pre-release games too, where you pay your money for the promise of a finished (polished) game and end up getting something that your nephew could have shat out in a weekend.

    The people on this planet suck.

    1. Re:Vista? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another reason to go to mars. They might have better programmers there.

    2. Re:Vista? by sexconker · · Score: 2

      They certainly have better politicians, lawyers, and maketers.

  12. Not enough memory in the E by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just got a 5.1 update notice for my wife's Moto E the other day. Only problem? Not enough memory in the phone, even though she runs the bare minimum, no photos and the only optional app she runs is Weatherbug.

  13. Android is for masochists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Akin to eating a plate of shit and asking for seconds.

  14. UK users can take it back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    in the UK you can return it as electrical goods have a 6year warranty, the stipulation is the fault must of been present when manufactured, not fit for purpose.
    EU users have 2 years.

    http://www.dailymail.co./news/...

    1. Re:UK users can take it back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By fault you mean needed security updates? I guess...

    2. Re:UK users can take it back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "must of"?

      http://www.grammarerrors.com/grammar/could-of-would-of-should-of/

  15. We promise! by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Funny

    "...we won't forget about you, and we'll make sure your Moto E stays up to date after you buy it."

    (time passes...)

    "Ha ha, just kidding! We can't believe you fell for that shit!

    But look over here, Citizen- we'll give you $5 off The New Shiny if you sign up for a 50-year unbreakable contract."

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:We promise! by markwisel · · Score: 1

      New customers make you money but old customers are a drain on your financials.

    2. Re:We promise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      obligatory Spaceballs clip

    3. Re:We promise! by willworkforbeer · · Score: 2

      "We really, truly Volkswagen-Promise!"

      --
      Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
  16. Nothing new, for me Android is Nexus or nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've had a number of iOS and Android devices since smartphones became popular, and have learned with Android the Nexus products are truly the only ones worth purchasing. Google did a great job in building out Android, it's as close as you can get to a computer in your pocket, but what a mess at the same time. You have all these 'pretty' phones with terrible security vulnerabilities and manufacturers that's just don't care. This is way worse than "the Internet of vulnerable things of the future", it's here already. Here's your 900 million devices that will never be patched and connected to the Internet for another year or two at least.

    If Windows PCs had to wait for hardware manufacturers to re-wrap the Microsoft updates, nobody would be OK with that. But that's effectively what's happened to Android. Google needs to kick these device manufacturers out of the mix, what ever happened to that certified Android device program? Wasn't it supposed to solve these problems?

  17. Fool me - you can't get fooled again by m00sh · · Score: 1

    Motorola has a long long history of doing this.

    I purchased their MotoActv fitness watch and after a year or so they cut off all support and updates.

    I don't see a reason to buy Motorola if there is a significant after purchase support portion attached to it.

    This isn't the first time they've done. This is not the second time they've done this. Why do we keep acting surprised about this?

  18. alliteration at its finest by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    Motorola marketed the Moto...well played, sir.

  19. Broken by Moof123 · · Score: 2

    I can't bring myself to buy an Apple, but it is crap like this that makes me foolish for not doing so. My last phone got a couple updates, but they brought it from slow to cripplingly slow (Galaxy Victory POS). I went higher end this time with a Nexus 6 hoping it will be supported longer, has less bloatware, and be fast enough to survive a few update cycles. Who knows...

    It is very sad that a dual core 1.2 GHz processor and a gig of RAM would not be enough to keep a stupid phone fast enough to be usable. Now I have a 4 core monster in my pocket with more pixels than my PC, but no real assurance it won't turn into a paper weight in a couple years.

    1. Re:Broken by Shados · · Score: 1

      I can't find the page right now, but Google publishes an official "update SLA", where they say how long they will update their devices. So far they've always followed it as a minimum, and in many cases pushed updates for longer. It is a bit short for taste though, but you at least get to know what you're in for.

    2. Re:Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I just put iOS 9.0.2 on my iPhone 4s, works great. Why can't you bring yourself to buy an Apple?

    3. Re:Broken by dell623 · · Score: 1

      Misleading advertising aside, that's really not a fair comparison.
      Frankly, by now we know what to expect from $125 phones in terms of updates. You really do get what you pay for, and with low end Android phones it is better to temper your expectations than complain later.

      I am not excusing Motorola for the false promises. But really, for that price, what did you expect? And I really can't understand why anyone would buy anything under a Moto G, especially in a mid-high income country. Especially anyone who uses their phone features enough to care about software updates. What possible reason could you have for saving a measly $50 over a Moto G?

    4. Re:Broken by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because despite some of the fuckery that goes on in the Android market there are many many upsides to various devices that the iPhone just doesn't have.

    5. Re:Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, other than OS feel (or including that if you think certain aspects are important), what's the list?

    6. Re:Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So get a phone with an unlocked bootloader and load one of the many community ROMs on it. Not a big deal. You can even get true ad-blocking by rooting.

      I can't believe people still consider Apple products here. This is Slashdot, not the Verge. I guess all the true nerds went over to SoylentNews now.

  20. Updates? Android?? by mschwanke97402 · · Score: 1

    Exactly why I quit Android several years ago. I bought a new Android phone. It was on the market around 6 months when I bought it. Within three months it was announced, well listed a few pages deep into the manufacturer's web site, that there would be no further updates. That was it for me. Oh, yeah, it was a Samsung device.

  21. Re:Updates? Android?? by Shados · · Score: 2

    Android updates work fine on Nexus. They have an official SLA and they stick to it. Only hiccups are sometimes they're delayed, but they come.

  22. And you still buy their products? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would any one buy Motorola???? They blew it big time and this is just proof they they don't get it, and never will.

  23. Hardly by feranick · · Score: 2

    Moto E 2015 uses the same processor (snapdragon 410) and RAM of the 2015 Moto G, other than the smaller res screen. Moto G is is getting the update. This is just plain lame from Motorola.

  24. Fool me once by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who believes anything marketing tells them gets just what they deserve.

  25. Sony Xperia Z3 by Stephen+Chadfield · · Score: 1

    My Xperia Z3 came with KitKat and was upgraded to Lollipop. The speculation is that it will be upgraded to Marshmallow in due time. This is great and a little surprising as I had been hearing that Sony were keen on ditching Xperia like they did with Vaio.

    These mobile devices are simply pocket computers. I would really prefer a proper, open source smartphone platform. With a choice of distros like have with my PC.

    1. Re:Sony Xperia Z3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i'd expect a 4digiter to be smart enough not to buy a sony smartphone

  26. 5 year support by emil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The first Android OEM to promise and deliver 5 year support on their devices will likely become the dominant player. Current Android OEMS are in a race to stab their customers in the back. Google is winning by far.

    1. Re: 5 year support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd settle for 3 years. It's appalling how devices reach EOL unsupported status before the typical 2 year contract is up.

  27. Re:Updates? Android?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you own a Galaxy Nexus. They dropped support early saying they couldn't support the TI chipset. However, Cyanogen was able to continue providing releases for it.

  28. Microsoft.. by BrianMosley · · Score: 2

    I know I'm gonna get downgraded real fast for this, but my $50 Lumia phone is running the most recent build of Windows 10 for phones with no issues. I refuse to pay a premium for the Apple logo, and Android is just a mess. Have an android tablet and even it can't update worth a $#!+.

    1. Re:Microsoft.. by Bugler412 · · Score: 1

      You are correct with the updates from MS (via Insider or Dev Preview), but that's not the same as the carrier releasing a fully supported version to non-techie customers in bulk. Outside of DEV preview/insider, Windows phone gets stuck in much the same updating situation as many Android phones due to OEM or carrier blockages. Witness how many formerly "flagship" Windows 8 phones, like the HTC models, that won't be receiving Windows 10 The large corporate customer (of Verizon) I work for actually had to threaten legalities over Verizon's holding back the Win8.1 denim update for Lumia 928's. The legal angle was that there were security updates included in the OS update, floated ideas of "negligence" for not releasing the update (which they suddenly did with no pre-announcement near Christmas, finally).

    2. Re:Microsoft.. by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      running the most recent build of Windows 10 for phones with no issues

      I call bullshit. No one runs windows 10 without issues. :-)

    3. Re:Microsoft.. by BrianMosley · · Score: 1

      Previous builds I had ALOT of issues. Apps crashing, features not working, even had my phone refuse to unlock one time. This build is surprisingly stable, and pretty good on battery consumption. Hell, they couldn't even get edge working in the last build, and I had to reset my phone to update it. Price you pay for using a pre-release operating system, though. I'd say it's pretty near finished at this point. (Well, as finished as any os that is.)

    4. Re:Microsoft.. by BrianMosley · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take very much tech savvy to join the Windows Insider program, though. Especially when compared to trying to install custom firmware or the newest Android version on other phones.

    5. Re:Microsoft.. by Bugler412 · · Score: 1

      No disagreement there, just very atypical for non-tech users

  29. Why is anybody surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even during the time Motorola was owned by Google, they didn't fully support their products. If a device received ONE update it was (and still is) a miracle.

  30. Repeat Business, every 2-3 years? by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Old Apple customers aren't a drain on Apple's financials, even in between the times they're buying new shiny Apple products, but that's Apple.

    If you're selling competitive-market hardware like Android phones, you not only need to sell your new phones to new customers, you have to keep the old customers happy enough that 2-3 years from now they'll consider buying a new phone from you, or at very minimum, you're going to have to keep them happy enough they're not saying Really Terrible Things about your support of the old products that trash the willingness of new suckers to buy your products.

    For instance, I'm currently a semi-happy Samsung customer, though I've heard rumors they've abandoned my G4 mini. It took me about 8-10 months to go from being a happy owner of a shiny HTC phone to being a disgruntled one (the Aria had a highly customized Android 2.1, locked to the Android Market, and by the time their highly customized 2.2 came out, my phone would no longer accept any software updates, because Google Play was not the same as Android Market.) And Coby? Sure, I knew it was a low-end no-name tablet, but even the manufacturer's web site appeared to have forgotten the product's name by the time I'd opened the box, though on the other hand, Google Play keeps working just fine on it, so until 4.0.4 becomes totally unsupportable, it's doing pretty well.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re: Repeat Business, every 2-3 years? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a Samsung note 3 Verizon and it was updated to lollipop not too long ago. The phone has continued to work just find for me. I'm on my 3 or 4 Samsung phone and I've always liked them. This is my second note model, gave the wife my note 2 that was also doing very well until she dropped it. It went to cell phone heaven.

    2. Re:Repeat Business, every 2-3 years? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Old Apple customers aren't a drain on Apple's financials, even in between the times they're buying new shiny Apple products, but that's Apple.

      The difference between Apple and Motorola is that Apple owns the app store that they ship on their devices, Motorola ships the Google one. If someone publishes an app that needs the latest OS, then Apple has an incentive to ensure that it runs on the widest possible set of devices so that they can take their 30% cut of the sale price. If Motorola ensures that the app can run on all of their devices, then all that they're doing is adding to Google's profits.

      This is why Amazon and Samsung include their own app stores. Eventually Android manufacturers will realise that they're in a low-margin business where all of the profits go to Google.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  31. "...we won't forget about you by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    But, you know, Google tends to complicate things a bit... Orders are orders...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  32. Re:Vote with your wallet... buy an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you'll get a lot longer support...

  33. I got fooled! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I went and bought one since it has a good battery life and it is not deal breaking slow. Before buying I asked them will I get update 5.1.1 because I am in Sweden and the support guy said, oh you will get it very soon. They released that update in May, so far I have not got it!!!!!

  34. Lenovo? by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    Its hard to ignore the elephant in the room here... Motorola was passed to Lenovo... and then suddenly things change.

    Coincidence? I rather doubt it.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  35. At least the Stagefright fix went out fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems crappy on Motorola's part, but I'm happy that my Moto E 2nd generation (same as 2015, right?) got the Android update for Stagefright in early September. Many of my friends with better phones are still waiting for that patch.

  36. Just bought one last week... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No compass which is infuriating, didn't realise, thought they all had one. Lousy camera with no flash but does have secondary front camera. Otherwise while a little chunky does everything a smartphone should really just fine on its 4.5" screen.

    Cost £40 $60 in the uk unlocked to put it in perspective. (Thats all in not per month).

    It has lollipop 5.0 installed and I bought it knowing marshmallow was not promised and might never appear. However I also knew motorola are happy to unlock the boot loader and there is third party rom development and cyanogenmod is available so I can probably add marshmallow later if I wish. And perhaps beyond!

    So all in all for £40 I don't feel too upset. It only ever promised lollipop and it has that.

    More annoying is the moto-e first edition which promised lollipop and has it in brazil and some countries but if you bought it from tesco in the UK the update does not seem to every be arriving officially. Tesco's will just say well we didn't promise its motorolas fault, nothing we can do. Which does rather stink.

  37. At least they are being upfront about it. by Mr.+McD · · Score: 1

    I have the original Moto X from 2013, which had been a pretty decent device. It too had been promised OS-level updates (not just patches) and it would go to Lollipop shortly after release. The final release is just getting rolled out now, just as the next version of Android is hitting devices. The delay was due to its custom X8 chipset and limited hands to get the job done. At least this time, Motorola is probably being upfront about it or still haven't assessed the viability of the upgrade. Oh yeah, and you still have to wait for the carriers to approve the specific updates.

    I've given up and gone back to iOS and got the device unlocked.

  38. As an owner of the Moto E 2015... by LichtSpektren · · Score: 1

    ...I already knew something was wrong when Motorola never pushed any security patches for Stagefright. I'm just going to flash CyanogenMod and be done with it. Don't buy anything Motorola/Lenovo ever again, obviously.

  39. I own a Moto E 2015 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pros:
    -It was carrier unlocked.
    -99.99.
    -Case and tempered glass screen on eBay.
    -Battery life is on par with an iPhone 5S
    -Video was never choppy
    -Bright screen
    -5.1

    Cons:
    -Speakerphone automatically lowers the volume to 0, regardless of prior setting, meaning you have to volume up to hear
    -some apps make the "Moto display" freeze. Hell if I know what that is but the errors pop up a lot.
    -locked bootloader.
    -missing indoor-penetrating LTE and 3GG or 2G bands. I tried several carriers near me in the last few months and the bottom line is it's best used outdoors.

    All in all I'd say in 10ish years of Android and Apple devices:
    Apple iPhone are overpriced overhyped garbage that's susceptible to much of the same problems as Android but they don't fumble with traditional usage that most people want from a phone.

    Android has too much variance. Scratch that. Android has given too much freedom to modify the experience beyond the stock that cripples the OS into a bloatware filled unsupported trash heap.

    I'm going to pursue a Nexus but I'll be fucked if I'm supporting Motorola ever again.

  40. Try CM12.1 (Lollipop 5.1.1) as an alternative... by heilbron · · Score: 2

    Try CM12.1 (Lollipop 5.1.1) as an alternative and become independent of Motorola's update policy: Here is a link to the respective threads on XDA!

  41. Message from Motorola by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SUCKer