Slashdot Mirror
Sex, Drugs, and Transportation: How Politicians Tried To Keep Uber Out of Vegas
HughPickens.com writes: Johana Bhuiyan has written an interesting article about how the Las Vegas taxi industry used every political maneuver in its arsenal to keep Uber and Lyft off the strip. Vegas is one of the most lucrative transportation markets in the country, with some 41.1 million visitors passing through it annually. The city's taxi industry has raked in a whopping $290 million this year to date (PDF). What made Vegas unique — what made it Uber's biggest challenge yet — was the extent to which local governments were willing to protect the incumbents. According to Bhuiyan, in Las Vegas, Uber and its pugnacious CEO Travis Kalanick really did run into the corrupt taxi cartel bogeymen they'd long claimed to be saving us from, and this cartel would prove to be their most formidable opponent. But when push came to shove and the fight turned ugly, the world's fastest-growing company ran right over its entrenched opposition.
Sigh.
I'm so uber Uber "news".
What I don't get is why taxi services don't just provide good service. If they really want to crush Uber, that's all they need to do. It shouldn't be hard or costly to do, either.
They could start with these changes, which would make a world of difference:
1. Ditch the third-world drivers. It's frustrating dealing with taxi drivers who don't know where they're going or what they're doing, since they only arrived in the country a month before. It's also frustrating when they can't speak or understand English, which is the international language of the travel industry worldwide, especially in countries that are natively English-speaking. And it's utterly disrespectful when they spend the whole trip chattering loudly on their phones or headsets in Arabic or some other obscure language the entire trip. Instead, they should hire locals who know the area, who know the local language (plus English, if they differ), and who won't treat the customers like utter shit.
2. Charge reasonable fares. A $6 starting fare, plus $8/mile after that, plus $1 for every 5 seconds idling at a light makes short taxi trips unbearably expensive, and it makes medium and long voyages pretty much impossible. The rates are excessive even if they were providing excellent service. But as we saw in the first point, the taxi customers are paying top dollar for third-world service. Short trips should be competitive with public transit fares. Longer trips should still be within reason. If an airline charges $800 to fly thousands of miles, it should not cost $100 to take a taxi just a few miles to get to the airport to catch that flight!
3. Never refuse rides. Despite even short rides costing the customer a lot of money, it's still not uncommon for taxi drivers to outright refuse to drive customers because their trip is too short, or may take the driver to say a residential area where there won't likely be other fares to pick up afterward. Pick up the customer promptly, drive the customer to where the customer wants to go, and don't bitch about it.
4. Stop resorting to third-world harassment tactics. This is also tied in with the first point, but we've seen many taxi drivers in Western cities around the world continually resort to really pathetic third-world harassment tactics in their fight against Uber. That's not how business should work in Western nations! If you can't keep up with your competitors, then you go out of business. You don't resort to criminal or quasi-criminal behavior. It just makes you look sleazier and shittier than you already look when you do stuff like that! So don't go blocking major roads. Don't go attacking Uber vehicles with passengers in them. Don't go attacking normal, non-Uber vehicles where the one passenger just happens to be sitting in the back instead of the front.
They should start with those four basic things. Even then, they all boil down to: don't treat your customers like shit, and don't subject them to a shitty experience.
Uber is only a threat to taxi services that provide shitty service. Uber really offers no advantages beyond taxi services that provide good service. It's not like the customers really give a fuck how they get from here to there. They just don't want to be subjected to the shitshow that taxi drivers have typically subjected them to. If taxi drivers just did a good fucking job for once, then Uber couldn't do a thing to them.
Fuck, these taxi services might even see an increase in business, and profit, if taxi rides started to become known as something convenient and enjoyable, rather than the third-world screw job they tend to be these days.
They also stopped the monorail to airport.
Context of the story aside, my worst experiences with taxis have all been in Las Vegas. Being being asshats with lawyer ties to politicians, they are angry at their customers just for being customers. It has gotten to the point where I'd rather pay for a private car or take a hotel shuttle over a taxi any time we visit Las Vegas. I've been yelled at, my wife's bags tossed to the ground and just made really uncomfortable when dealing with them.
This feels like a description of a war between Al Qaeda and ISIL.
A company with no regard to the law wades into territory infested with other groups who similarly don't give a rat's behind about the law. It's not even popcorn worthy...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
...other than the fact that it's one-sided bullshit.
One of the reasons Uber, Lyft and all the other "ride sharing" app companies get so much flack because they are breaking the law. The taxi industry is regulated for very good reasons (one being safety) and all the "ride sharing" app companies blatantly ignore them. This, in turn, infuriates the traditional taxi industry that follows regulations and sees them as unfair competition.
The other reasons for the controversy revolves around some pretty awful labor exploitation but that's a whole nother story.
As many media outlets are commited somehow to spread the word about one but ONLY ONE of the many apps that promote illegal semipublic transport operating on no insurance or permits whatsoever. We bring this astonishing news about a city that tried to keep this illegal operation controlled and how a CEO complains about the big money involved and how they would love to have the government under their control.
I know it is fashionable to hate on them, so what do you think about their stance on licensing? Read the interview: http://www.forbes.com/sites/da...
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
While I agree with your thesis that cab companies often provide shitty service for an outrageous price, I think you are wrong a few points.
It's frustrating dealing with taxi drivers who don't know where they're going or what they're doing, since they only arrived in the country a month before.
In the age of GPS this should be a non-problem. And frankly while I don't take cabs often I've NEVER run into a cab where the guy got off the figurative boat a month before. Maybe it does actually happen but I think that is more of an urban legend than anything else. More likely it is just the arrogant and often racist assumption that anyone who doesn't have English as their first language must have just gotten to the country 5 days prior.
It's also frustrating when they can't speak or understand English, which is the international language of the travel industry worldwide, especially in countries that are natively English-speaking.
English is NOT a universal language or anything close to it and certainly isn't the "international language of the travel industry worldwide". While it is among the more commonly spoken languages more of the world doesn't speak English than does. I've traveled quite a lot in places where not a word of English is spoken. The assumption that everyone should speak English is ignorant and arrogant and if you honestly believe that then you are a jerk. This is the sort of ugly-american stuff that gets us such a bad reputation. In the US, yes you should be able to speak English and in some areas Spanish is helpful too. Elsewhere different rules apply. If you cannot communicate with your driver then GET OUT and get a new cab. If you are offended at an accent then you are just being a douche.
And it's utterly disrespectful when they spend the whole trip chattering loudly on their phones or headsets in Arabic or some other obscure language the entire trip.
What do you care what language they are "chattering" in? Disrespect is a matter of opinion and perspective and local custom. I don't see that as disrespectful at all. Unprofessional in some cases but not disrespectful. Personally I don't care at all if the cabbie wants to entertain himself as long as he gets me where I want to go quickly and efficiently. I don't really want to talk with them anyway so what do I care? The only time I care is if I interrupt the driver I expect him to drop whatever he's doing and pay attention.
LV taxi always try to trick you into taking the highway to the airport which is significantly more expensive than the normal way from the strip.
That's cute. Going to Las Vegas to be thrifty? What exactly is the point of that? You are aware that those huge casinos weren't built by people being smart with their money, right?
Personally I just rent a car when I go to Vegas. Costs about $30-40 a day and I can go wherever I want and parking is plentiful and mostly free. The monorail can get you to much of the strip and you'll be walking plenty anyway. Cabs can be useful but if you are going to take more than 2 cab rides a day you might as well rent a car.
And I'll tell you why - read this:
http://www.businessinsider.com...
Here's the short version. The taxi industry in San Francisco is $140M/year. Uber's business there is $500M/year. Note that Uber hasn't taken that much business from the taxi industry - that's on top of it.
So, right now we can see that the actual taxi industry in that one city was 1/4 of the potential. That is seriously damaging the economy, particularly when you multiply it out among every city in the US. Put another way, the taxi regulations (bought by the cartels) were causing $500M less money to change hands every year in one city. Just so that they could keep competition low.
There's a great rant on here earlier about what the taxi industry does that stupid (hiring non-English-speaking-just-off-the-boat foreigners, etc.) and it's really kind of amazing to me. Uber's model is simple to replicate, and would be pretty simple for the taxi industry to take on at least parts of it. Have an app so I'll know who my driver is and can rate him. I saw a loon on here a couple of weeks ago claiming that the traditional taxi industry is better because there's a centralized complaint process. Uh, yeah, right. How does that work? How about after my ride I just click a button on my phone? That's a true "centralized complaint process" that even my mother could figure out.
It's clear that the taxi industry doesn't want to change, but it'll be the death of them. They've been buying politicians for years, and with Uber bringing in 3X the revenue the whole "buy a politician" business model is about to get priced out of the taxi industry's league. That really sucks because I don't have any reason to believe Uber will be any nicer than the taxi industry was from a regulatory standpoint, but at least it'll likely allow more competition.
Do you have ESP?
In my area taxi drivers simply pay a set fee for the cab for the shift. It used to be $75. per shift. The driver keeps everything on the meter. A small number of drivers own their own cabs but operate through a major company like Yellow Cab. Most of the year in south Florida it is hell to make a living driving a cab. Some days the cab rental costs more than your intake and you actually lose money driving. If your car breaks five minutes into your shift they keep the $75. and you do not get another cab. If you are injured on the job they claim you are an independent contractor and in fact you are not but your medical care and disabilities will not be paid for. In training they actually tell you to make arrangements with the local whore houses to steer likely customers to them and have an agreed upon fee for delivering these customers with the whore house. So a driver that gets four sailors near the port can get quite a fee from the brothels. Meanwhile politicians have made the fees so demanding for taxi insurance policies that very few people can operate as an independent. Taxi drivers have other gimmicks such as demanding a $20. minimum fee or adding a large charge for using your debit or credit card. All in all the taxi business in city areas in Florida is so corrupt that taxis need to be made illegal for a while so that new standards and regulations can be put into play. A continuous film recording all of the interaction and conversations are recorded and held for 30 days would help. These drivers are robbing the IRS blind.
The only way to keep a competitor out of "your" turf is — or ought to be — by providing superior service at lower price. Being able to use "political maneuvers" instead or even addition to that is a sign of bona fide corruption.
It does not matter, whether the politicians involved took bribes or were sincere — the government simply should not have the power to be a player. The war, that Uber, Lyft et al wage against taxis is simply the more visible of the fights, which private businesses wage every day. We can bemoan the undue influence of lobbyists all day long, but the underlying problem is that, given the number of licensing requirements and regulations, the corporations can not afford not to have a lobbyist on payroll. Instead of, or, at best, in addition to, pleasing us, the consumers, all businesses of appreciable size must be pleasing the government as well.
That's not free market capitalism, and it sucks...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Well the great part is now we have choice! Customers concerned with driver screening and safety can take taxis. Customers who are not can throw caution to the wind. What I don't get is people who *want* a monopoly either way. Of rather have competition and choice, so even if I never use Uber or Lyft, I'm glad they exist.
Twinstiq, game news
Tsk.
You are assuming I don't. Invariably a minute into the ride the driver mentions "traffic jam" or "faster way".
To which you hold up your phone and say "Wayz says it will only take ten minutes."
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I guess you didn't read the article. Nicely done troll. uber seeks to not follow the laws that in place for taxi services. Learn to read and understand the issue before commenting jackass.
English is the closest thing we have to a universal language, even though it isn't one.
Since even the most optimistic estimate of the number of speakers (including non-native) is around 500 million, you are talking about a language spoken by about 7% of the world's population. So no, it isn't even close to being a universal language. It is probably the closest thing the a lingua franca right now but it's no where close to universal. Hell there are more speakers of Mandarin than English albeit mostly in one country.
It used to be German, but that fell out of favor for some reason, I can't imagine why.
No idea where you got that idea. The Holy Roman Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empires used it and it's still quite popular but not much outside of Europe. Unless you are talking about Germanic languages in general which includes English. The world is a lot bigger place than Europe.
I go to Vegas every year to work at CES, not to vacation.
If you are not taking your clients out to awesome clubs to party, you are not doing your job!
It's located in an "officially unincorporated" portion of the county called Paradise. The city tried to annex this area once... once.
source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You are really being a dick with your un-useful rebuttals.
1. This thread is about Vegas, so asking drivers to speak clear English IS relevant;
2. Being a Cab driver is a SERVICE, which is paid for by the customer;
3. The service should be efficient and be a pleasant experience;
4. Most people do not want to hear loud music (never mind from which country or which type) while they are riding in a taxi, the cabbie is on my dime (see point 2), he can listen to music when I get off;
5. Most people do not want to hear a loud one sided conversation in ANY language while riding in a taxi, the cabbie is on my dime (see point 2), he can have a conversation when I get off;
6. When you get into a cab, you pay for efficient transportation to your destination. The service price should include proper navigation, if I have to pull out my phone and be the GPS, then I'll charge you half the price back;
7. GPS should be in every taxi in 2015, no exception, trying to defend the un-defendable is ludicrous;
8. Rent a car? And pay all those hotel fees for parking and the valet service? Did you really just say that, for Vegas? The only time renting a car in Vegas makes ANY sense, is if you are NOT going on the strip;
9. I dont want to get out and find a new cab, I want good service the first time, which is why I pay for it. This is WHY Uber and Lyft are getting traction, because the service is so utter shit at the moment. And that was the point of the OP, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER if you dont want competition;
Not everyone travels the same way. The main point is, Taxi service is a paid service and if that industry wishes to remain relevant, they need to increase customer experience and quality of service. All your points where actually reinforcing the fact that the taxi services are shit, because your answer to everything was, Do it Yourself. In that case, Taxi's shouldnt exist, right?
ChrisJohnson posted this about Uber, I think it's insightful as I see many other businesses taking up this mode of operation to take advantage of Uber drivers:
Quote:
Sure, a bit. Uber's the same thing. It's designed to make maximum use of crazy people and force the others to live up to that standard or be fired.
I'll define 'crazy Uber people' not as 'danger to customers', but 'people who are bringing more value in terms of vehicle, skill and desire to please, than they are getting back in pay and benefits'. So the crazy Uber person is the one who keeps buying a new Lexus or whatever, vacuums their car three times a day and busts their ass to outperform all the other Uber drivers, so they can continue to win out over anybody else seeking to be a driver.
The key factor is that they are giving more than they get back, in the belief that they're cornering some kind of market or buying in to something important.
[snip]
Another way to be a crazy Uber person is to put more depreciation and wear and tear on your car than you can afford to repair (or replace). It's easy to be crazy in these ways. It's externalities which are easy to overlook. These Amazon/Uber business models are designed to leverage that kind of crazy as hard as possible, and kick out everybody who's not willing to lose (one way or another) on the deal. Psychology is useful in getting people to buy into this stuff.
end quote
mfwright@batnet.com
Why do we need such laws?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
There may be hotels that don't have free parking, but I haven't run across them. If you need to drive up to the front and get out, then yes, you're going to need to pay for valet and parking. If you're willing to drive around the back and self-park, then it's free. Yes, on the Strip. At least the places I've tried.
I've never tried any of the paid transportation options in Vegas -- I pass through on my way to and from Colorado, so I'm always in my own car. Anything I want to do on the Strip (mainly involving food) just means parking in one of the free hotel parking areas and hiking along the Strip to wherever I want to go.
Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
Nevada is the most hyper-libertarian of the states: machine gun ranges, brothels, Art Bell, wildcat gold miners, little barricaded compounds of people who claim sovereign planetary status while chugging silver colloids until they turn blue. Yet the largest city is an enclave of east coast Teamster-mobster thugdom. Uber would be prosaic anywhere in the state but in Vegas, but because of the touristic importance, that is where the ridesharing battle is joined.
The great majority of them are from out of state and therefore don't get to vote on the issue, except with their wallets.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
I don't know what was true when this article was written, but it is very out of date when compared to the reality I experienced, first-hand, just 3 weeks ago.
Uber exists there; seems to work great, just like it works everyone else that it exists, with one caveat. . .
The uber drivers are scared to death of going to the airport; either to pick up, or drop off. . .
They claim that if they do, they get cited by local police (more than one uber driver said this).
That one problem creates an incredibly messed up situation. . . as illustrated by one of our attempted rides:
- We called for a cab to the airport at the end our business meeting (because we knew by then we couldn't take Uber).
- The cab company promised to come get us, but wouldn't tell us a pickup time other than "hopefully under 30 minutes. Answer your phone."
- 30 minutes later, we called again.
- The cab company said, "Oh I'll let dispatch know you you called again and that you are still waiting." (like she was shocked we were still waiting)
- We called another company.
- The second cab company was willing to come get us, but only if we put down a credit card first, and they were unwilling to guarantee a time that they would arrive to get us, not even a promise that they would be there in the next 30 minutes.
- We declined this option.
- 60 minutes after our first call, in desperation, we had our co-worker (who was already at the airport) get a cab (at the airport) and take it to our location, to pick us up, and take us back to the airport. That was the only way we could figure out to get there.
- We never received any call saying "hey we're here" or "we can't get you" or anything. (Call us bad for contributing to the problem by not calling them back to let them know we no longer needed a ride.)
Mind you, we had taken 4 ubers (get there, go to lunch, come back from lunch, send co-worker to hotel to get luggage) from this same location/area, all that same day, prior to this attempt to get to the airport. They all showed up in under 5 minutes, were all clean, friendly, and willing to take us anywhere we wanted to go (other than the airport).
I have lots of opinions about what this all means, but I'll try to leave this post to just what I experienced.