How Academia Still Struggles With Sexual Harassment (buzzfeed.com)

New submitter Dr. Scatterplot writes: Richard Feynman is celebrated as a brilliant scientist and idiosyncratic character. He is also someone who today might be accused of sexual harassment. That is, if his students felt empowered to report him. Whether his department would have done anything back then is a different matter. How far should academic communities go to protect their intellectual capital, at the expense of further harm to their students, past and present? UC Berkeley and exoplanet astronomers are walking that line with prominent professor and exoplanet discoverer Geoff Marcy. "Four women alleged that Marcy repeatedly engaged in inappropriate physical behavior with students, including unwanted massages, kisses, and groping. As a result of the findings, the women were informed, Marcy has been given 'clear expectations concerning his future interactions with students,' which he must follow or risk 'sanctions that could include suspension or dismissal.''

Comments

Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the conflict between universities wanting to be an open environment of learning, education, and research (i.e. their fucking job) and actually making money. Universities literally make money on the discoveries of their researchers. So unfortunately they get plenty of leeway when it comes to this, because most universities aren't willing to actually fight a tenured professor on this.

Meanwhile, universities adopted extremely stringent rules on campus rape. It's not like they don't believe this is a problem. But they sure as hell do believe that students are expendable but professors aren't.

(Personally, I think university sexual harassment and rape proceedings should have power to fire tenured professors - tenure is supposed to protect professors with unpopular opinions, not professors who sexually harass their students.)

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[HiThere]

Unfortunately, accusations of sexual harassment are often easy to create to punish politically incorrect beliefs or actions.

It's a real problem, and I don't see any easy solution. There is a strong cultural tradition that says that women are supposed to protest against pursuit, even when that's what they really want, and there's no easy way to tell.

Clearly the only safe procedure is to immediately desist upon request, but there's also a strong cultural tradition that says this is "unmanly". Whoops!

We seem to be groping towards a tradition where honesty is demanded on both sides, but getting there is causing a lot of people a lot of problems. For a minor example of the kind of problem from a few decades ago "Should a man hold a door open for a woman?". For awhile you would receive abuse no matter HOW you answered that. (From different groups, but still abuse.) For that matter just last week I heard a woman saying (as a compliment) to a man that it had been years since the last time a man held a door open for her. She still saw that the the proper polite behavior.

Now note that the question of holding a door open never had the degree of seriousness attached to it that "inappropriate advances" had. OTOH, under the old standard the professor would be forbidden to approach the female student no matter how provocative she was. So (as reported) he was following neither the old standard nor the developing standard.

In this case the only answer I see is "life logs". If either was wearing a life log, then the situation would not be in doubt, and in *THAT* case I think that there should be the ability to remove tenure. But there should also be a right of appeal, though to who? The administration or the faculty? Whichever of those two groups wasn't running the prior proceedings would be my first cut at an answer, but one might also consider whether the students should have a say in this.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[PseudoThink]

I offered to pay for a recording device for my friend, who was regularly sexually harassed by her faculty adviser. She decided against it, mainly because she felt trapped in her situation. Getting another adviser (either by seeking one or reporting the abuse of hers) would mean abandoning years of work (and racking up more debt), which could not simply be resumed with another adviser.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[godrik]

That is the main problem with sexual harassement. Once a sexual harassement case appear, the consequences of being wrong will be terrible in either case:
1/ either you let a sexual harasser free.
2/ or you destroy the life of an innocent.

Neither of these options are preferable. And because it is so hard to get evidence of these, it often ends in "he said/she said". So everyone wants to tiptoe around it.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[tnk1]

In the context of this case, I quite agree.

The professor is in a position of power, or at least respect, in an organization like a university. He shouldn't be hitting on the students. Period.

I know there is a long history of professors banging co-eds, and sometimes that's fully consensual between adults, but even so, professors should not be playing cat and mouse intimacy with their peers let alone their students. This is a workplace matter, not a mating dance. If a woman does want to get busy with a professor, and is playing a coy game with him, who cares? It isn't unmanly for him to refuse to play the game, it's professional for him to refuse to become involved. Surely a professor should not be taking a page from the caveman manual on intergender relationships to justify his pursuit.

As a manager, I don't get to give my female employees massages, and I'd demur even if a particularly attractive one straight up asked me to. Why? Because the workplace is the wrong place for that and I have a substantial effect on her career if we were to get involved or if there was even the suggestion that we were involved. So why are professors supposed to be special? Do they have no professional ethics?

All that should be necessary is that there are witnesses to the behavior. The woman herself shouldn't even need to come forward if third parties can vouch for it.

I admit that there is a potential for issues when anonymous claims are made. There does need to be a way of dealing with that fairly and honestly. You should be allowed to face your accuser if accused of such a crime, but at the same time, there has to be understanding that the victims are in a difficult position.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[R3d M3rcury]

Perhaps this video will help.

Re: Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[guruevi]

So how is that rape? Miscommunication happens in every interaction including sexual reproduction. If your mechanic says your brakes are on their way out and should be replaced soon does not make him a murderer when they fail 6 months later. Soon is ill defined but for a mechanic it may mean a few weeks but you may think before the next inspection.

Rape is pretty well defined legally. Regretting after the fact or going along with it for whatever reason does not fall under the legal definition of rape. And yes, I know feminists are trying to reclassify all male advances towards females as rape but it doesn't make it right.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[Anonymous Coward]

You just called someone that agrees "Yes means yes and no means no." a raping pieces of shit. Reflect on that.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[HiThere]

It is often abused even without any sexual overtures.

Let me rephrase that.

The power of graduate advisors over graduate students is extremely often abused in ways that would be illegal in most other circumstances. E.g. demanding unpaid labor for over 40 hours/week.

That is would also be abused in other ways shouldn't surprise anyone.

Re: Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[cyber-vandal]

This problem is fixed by making consent explicit

Unless it's a signed and notarised consent form how do you prove that? This is a private act with no witnesses possibly under the influence of alcohol.

Re:Academia is willing to protect total dicks

[Zero__Kelvin]

"Her work was in theoretical mathematics, on a thesis for which (as she explained to me) this adviser was her only option, at her school. If the work was generic or potentially transferable research, it might make sense that she should be able to simply find another adviser."

Or another school

"Couldn't the university claim that the adviser's offense is not the university's offense?"

No

" Covert recordings are usually illegal/inadmissable as evidence without a warrant

Sexual harassment is illegal where I am from. I don't know about where you live. If it is indeed illegal there she should talk to a lawyer, who can involve the police and secure a warrant for the recording.

I am not one who is vitriolic, but I can assure you that the US jails have many, many inhabitants who are in jail because a women made up a story. I don't know where you live, but where I live men are very sensitive to this. Regardless of where you live the world is full of women who lie (not all by any means, of course) so most men take such accusations with a grain of salt, and even more so when the woman grows reluctant any time a way of proving it is discussed. You'll note that I emphasized the word suspect in my first post. It is certainly possible that the professor is every bit the lech that she claims, too. You'll note that I am spending my valuable time addressing this. This is because I despise both lecherous professors and woman who make up stories about men that are not true. Each is equally dangerous and offensive, and I would love it if the actual truth came to light, whatever that truth might be.

We should not protect them

[godrik]

"How far should academic communities go to protect their intellectual capital, at the expense of further harm to their students, past and present?"

As a male university professor, my answer to this is very clear. We should not protect them. For many reasons:
1/ You begin brilliant does not mean you can do whatever you want.
2/ For most of us, we can do our research from a prison cell.
3/ Our students are the main product of academic life. We all love to believe that our research is the most important. But realistically we have the opportunity to touch the mind (the mind I said!) of hundreds of students each year. They will be our legacy, let's make it good one!

The challenge is keeping this issue gender-neutral

[Applehu Akbar]

Because sexuality and talent in any given academic discipline are independent variables, academia has to deal with various kinds of harassment in exactly the same way as any other place of work. Unfortunately it is unable to, because campuses are increasingly being colonized by the sort of toxic misandrists who could not find a job anywhere else, and so are making academia their private fiefdom. So long as their definition of harassment is "anything that men like," the Feynmans of the future will have to find homes in private research institutes.

Power dynamics in graduate academia

[PseudoThink]

Two of my friends were trapped with a faculty adviser who was incredibly abusive (verbally) toward one, and regularly sexually harassed the other. On a daily basis, for years. They tolerated his abuse for so long because they felt they had no choice. Getting a different adviser would mean abandoning their work (in theoretical mathematics), setting them back a ton of money (in academic loans) and years of work/research. Reporting the adviser's abuse would result in the same penalties for them.

It was a messed up power dynamic of which their adviser was likely fully aware and certainly took full advantage. Even after obtaining their PhD's, my friends can't do much about it. They still need the adviser's support as a reference, for getting published, and they just want to put it all behind them.

How many female students...

[Anonymous Coward]

How many female students approach their male professors each year, attempting to use sex as a bargaining chip? Those visits during office hours, exhibiting cliched behaviour like dropping a pencil to bend over and retrieve it. Flirting, quick furtive touching, inquiring about "extra credit," occasionally even flatly and outright making a proposition to trade sexual favors in exchange for a passing grade. I'm old, paunchy, balding, unattractive; I know precisely what these misguided young women are up to, as they're certainly not after my good looks or great fortune. Such harassment is common at many campuses and yet I see no prominent feminists standing up to decry this behaviour.

Re:How many female students...

[techno-vampire]

I sympathize with you, but as a male, I don't personally consider that to be harassment because there's no threat, either explicit or implicit involved. When a professor treats a student like that, there's always the implication that the student's grade depends to some extent on what happens, but unless the student tries to blackmail the professor with false claims of impropriety, it's hard to see how it can be called harassment. ICBW, of course, but as of right now, that's how I see it.

It's buzzfeed

[kuzb]

Case dismissed. Why does this trash keep getting posted here.

Re:Like athleticism, genius gets a pass sometimes

[Gravis Zero]

Exceptions are made for the exceptional. It is not a right or wrong moral conundrum so much as it is the way the World works.

you are morally bankrupt.

No shit sherlock ..

[nickweller]

"when he was a young, boyish looking professor at Cornell, Feynman used to pretend to be a student so he could ask undergraduate women out .. Feynman .. trying to get women in bars to sleep with him .. documented affairs with two married women"

Have these fragile flowers ever thought of saying no to sexual advances. What Feynman does/did with his dick - as long as it's between consenting adults - is nobody's business except his.

"It's not surprising to find these anecdotes disturbing and even offensive"

Well then, don't read about them.

"the propensity to lie on the beach and watch girls"

OH, shock horror !

"actions .. that were considered acceptable or amusing in 1950 would quite rightly cause instant outrage in 2014."

No they wouldn't, it's just that the political-correctness-feminista dictatorship would try and get you fired if you say any different.

Richard Feynman, sexism and changing perceptions of a scientific icon

Re:No shit sherlock ..

[godrik]

You quote : "when he was a young, boyish looking professor at Cornell, Feynman used to pretend to be a student so he could ask undergraduate women out .. Feynman .. trying to get women in bars to sleep with him .. documented affairs with two married women"

I have no idea whether this quote is correct or not. But pretending to be a student seems to pretty much rule out sexual harassment. You do not sexually harass by pretending to have less control on the other person than you actually have. Or you are the worse harasser in history...

Comparing Feynman with Marcy

[Anonymous Coward]

After reading the linked piece about Feynman, it doesn't seem that his alleged sexism (and I'm not claiming it did or did not exist) is at all comparable to what Prof Marcy has been accused of. Feynman may have been a "typical sexist male of the '50s", but Marcy is being accused of criminal acts including sexual assault.