The World of Luxury Bomb Shelters (vice.com)

An anonymous reader writes with this Vice profile of Robert Vicino, founder and CEO of survival prep company The Vivos Group. For a prepaid $35,000 entry fee, you may take shelter in one of his luxury bomb shelters when civilization collapses. "Those who make it their business to equip themselves for a civilization-ending mega-disaster—a.k.a. 'preppers'—are sometimes stereotyped as wild-eyed tinfoil hat wearers who live outside of society, but Robert Vicino caters to survivalists whose fears are backed up by money. The San Diego businessman is gunning to be the vanguard of a multibillion-dollar industry. If we're to follow the entrepreneur's logic, the rich don't live on the same scale as ordinary people in today's society—why should that change after the end of the world?"

Comments

Scammers

[gurps_npc]

The idea that you can make it to the shelter is ridiculous. If by some chance we need one, we won't have enough notice to do more than move 50 miles. The only people that could possibly be saved by the these luxury shelters are those that work there.

Honestly, almost all of the people selling this kind of crap are scammers.

You want to really protect yourself? Get into the distribution/warehouse business - so you have a warehouse full of food, water, etc. on hand all the time. Put a shelter under/in your work place.

Re:Scammers

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

You want to really protect yourself? Get into the distribution/warehouse business - so you have a warehouse full of food, water, etc. on hand all the time. Put a shelter under/in your work place.

My plan is to find a Home Depot next to a grocery store and move in there.

Re:Scammers

[xlsior]

The idea that you can make it to the shelter is ridiculous. If by some chance we need one, we won't have enough notice to do more than move 50 miles

Even if you could make it there -- what are the odds that the on-site maintenance people are even going to let you in, rather than their own families?

Re:Scammers

[gijoel]

"You want to really protect yourself? Get into the distribution/warehouse business - so you have a warehouse full of food, water, etc. on hand all the time. Put a shelter under/in your work place."

Except that'll be the first place the desperate, starving hordes will raid. Maybe people should focus on preventing the apocalypse, instead of secretly wishing for it.

Re:Scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone will leak the list of the locations of the luxury shelters. Then when civilization collapses, they will all become targets of starving/desperate have-nots.

Re:Scammers

[TWX]

I have a feeling that organized crime, which already has a lot of hooks into the underlying infrastructure of society that people don't like to think about, will probably be some of the best survivors in these circumstances. First, depending on what aspect they use as their angle, they might already have the warehousing and distribution part under their control. Second, as an entity that is already accustomed to using violence in business, continuing to use violence against others that are inexperienced in using violence to further their ends (ie, those that would seek to raid a warehouse of supplies) would have the upper hand in an engagement. Raiders that forced to be violent for the first time will probably not fare as well as veteran defenders that won't hesitate or won't hesitate as much.

So, it honestly depends on the warehouse owner/manager and the individual connections that the person has.

Re:Scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

Character flaw? If civilization comes to an end, you can be damn sure that morals will as well. At least until a new set is devised. What sort of an idiot is going to let their family starve, or worse, because they'd be breaking a rule from the collapsed civilization?

Now if it's something like a massive earthquake or other temporary condition, you might be right.

Re:Scammers

[swb]

I think you're mostly right about organized crime types havng some kind of advantage due to their experience with violence, But I think you underestimate the number of non-ctiminals with experience with violence.

We have at least 100,000 veterans with recent experience in a war zone, many with first-hand experience in urban combat against irregulars. Their training and experience gives them a huge advantage in terms of organization, tactics and strategy. You could expand that 100,000 number into the millions if you factor in non-combat veterans (Navy and Air Force vets, etc) who may not have specific combat experience or deep training, but have experience in military organization and general training.

The other problem with organized crime as a potential survivor is while they may be experienced with violence, their methods of organization and leadership tend to be chaotic, lacking in trust or reliability. Internal conflicts over leadership and spoils tend to be common, with members often turning on or stealing each other.

Re:Scammers

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to really protect yourself? Get into the distribution/warehouse business - so you have a warehouse full of food, water, etc. on hand all the time. Put a shelter under/in your work place.

My plan is to find a Home Depot next to a grocery store and move in there.

MY plan is to fuck your mother again and again until I am Adam and she is Eve and we restart civilization by inbreeding. Just like in the bible.

Go home Dad, you're drunk.

Re: Scammers

[BurningFeetMan]

Please tell me that this plot is a video game in the making!

Re:Scammers

[khallow]

For any such organization that survives the collapse of society in good working order, this is an automatic promotion to proto-government though it'll take more work to establish the traditional monopoly on rule that governments tend to enjoy.

Re:Scammers

[cold fjord]

The 10 MT warheads were all decommissioned decades ago. A typical warhead today is about 250KT, or 40 fold less powerful.

The 10MT size is for planning purposes. Typical US warheads are smaller, but China reportedly still uses warheads in the 3-5MT range, and the Russians in the 1MT+ range. A growing number of nations fundamentally hostile to the US are obtaining nuclear arms. The threat of nuclear terrorism is likely to grow.

I think your preparations are wise, and should help in many potential circumstances. Good luck.

Re:Scammers

[MacTO]

That was my first thought too. Just to add to it, who is to say that they would let you in even if you did have enough time to make it to the shelter? If the world has collapsed to a state where bomb shelters are necessary, chance are very high that the legal system would have far more pressing issues to deal with.

Re:Scammers

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Hey asshole, get someone to read this to you:

humor
(h)yoomr/
noun
noun: humour; noun: humor; noun: cardinal humor; plural noun: cardinal humors

        1. the quality of being amusing or comic, especially as expressed in literature or speech.
        "his tales are full of humor"
        synonyms: comedy, comical aspect, funny side, fun, amusement, funniness, hilarity, jocularity; More
        absurdity, ludicrousness, drollness;
        satire, irony, farce
        "the humor of the film"
                the ability to express humor or make other people laugh.
                "their inimitable brand of humor"

Antonyms: jackoff (see "cold fijord"), dipstick (see "cold fijord"), humorless cunt (see "cold fijord"), pompous asswipe (see "cold fijord"), curmudgeon (see "cold fijord"), nimrod (see "cold fijord"), bliss ninny, (see "cold fijord"),

Re:Scammers

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Good idea! I'm sure no one with guns and homicidal tendencies will think to do that!

I'm sure those without a sense of humor won't think of it, so that means at least you won't be there.

Re:Scammers

[khallow]

I doubt organized crime will make it that far, but it is interesting to see you pulling for them.

So what? Your doubts are irrelevant. I'm merely pointing out the obvious. They're a rival power structure and the primary thing keeping them in check went away. It's also worth noting here that there are a number of governments which started out as organized crime of one sort or another, for example, the Communists of the USSR or the modern Israeli government (particularly, the Irgun paramilitary group which formed part of the roots for the current Likud party).

And from a practical standpoint, any organization which can survive the complete collapse of society is a strong candidate for seeding a new regional or national government, including religions and existing local governments.

Re:Scammers

[Squiddie]

So might we summarize that you think there really isn't anything doable collectively in terms of emergency preparation?

I didn't say that, and emergency preparation is different from paying someone to do it for you and expecting them to keep the terms when the time comes. It's called self-responsibility. However, the idea of bunkers is stupid, just ask Enver Hoxha.

What objection have you raised that couldn't be raised in other contexts?

That they have no obligation to you of the "end of the world" really comes. That's pretty obvious, not to mention the fact that you have no idea how well-stocked the place will be once you get there. For all you know, it isn't particularly well-made.

Why pay for a fire department, they might not come and simply laugh as you die in a fire?

I don't pay for a personal fire department that will only come when the entire world is burning. This is not the same situation. Also, a fire department is for everyone.

Why pay for a police department, they might not come, or might even kill you. On and on.

You'd be right about that in a certain way. However, the police don't promise to only come after the world ends, and you aren't paying them directly.

I don't think it is so much a stupid idea as it isn't suitable for everyone. There seem to be a lot of people on Slashdot that prefer to do nothing, and complain bitterly while casting aspersions against those that do prepare.

Paying someone to promise you a shelter in the event of society collapsing isn't preparing. It's pissing money away. Preparing might involve having a first aid kit, a fire extinguisher, and so on.

I doubt you've lived through an emergency of the scope and duration contemplated for these shelters.

Nobody has, because they're meant for an event that isn't going to happen, and you have no guarantee of accessing it in the event it does, nor do you have a guarantee of it working as intended.

Re:Scammers

[rtb61]

The reality is there is only one plan that works. Think gold will protect in a collapsed society, why, you can eat it and of course if someone else wants it they will use a gun to take it. Think a gun and ammo are you path to safety, then a sniper will kill you before you even notice they are there. Bunkers at all and nothing more that tin cans to be opened for the goodies inside and that might well include the people inside as consumables.

Want to be safe, quite simply have more people on your side than any possible threat. The only thing in reality that can protect in times of crisis, is the same as what protects you right not and you would be unsafe right now without it, community. Best plan in times to crisis, who the community can quickly come together to support each other, how resources will be gathered and distributed, provisions for health care and of course policing.

Think you are safe in your personal private prison, not if someone wants something you have or your prison has been buried under rubble and people couldn't be bothered digging you out. I would have to say any government that hid it's arse underground whilst leaving the bulk of the public exposed, should straight up be buried and left there as a bad memory.

Re:Scammers

[Squiddie]

So you think there is no way to inspect the facilities?

Do you get to inspect every square inch of a hotel? No. It all depends on the agreement made. You have no way of knowing how much is actually there, what quality it is and so on. You would have basically have had to be there as it was being built to know this, and even then, you would have to know what right looks like, at which point, why not just do it for yourself?

'm not going to agree with that. There are plenty of other commercial activities which developers build facilities for clients. I'm not sure why you think this is all that different.

Because if this one doesn't work for its intended purpose, you have no way of suing. How dense are you?

There is something of a gap between having a flashlight and fire extinguisher on hand versus having a pre-built and provisioned shelter.

Yes, one is sensible and works in known situations and the other is batshit insane and a waste of money.

A nuclear war isn't the end of the world. Enver Hoxha wasn't using a bunker to protect him from fallout.

It would basically signal the end of civilization as we know it. So again, there is no incentive to keep such promises, and as for Hoxha, the point is that the bunkers didn't actually do anything and couldn't be used in the manner "intended" for them. It is the same deal here, people pay money up front with no guarantee of entry. If that isn't a scam, I don't know what is.

Re:Scammers

[Hognoxious]

Getting a job as the receptionist at an asshole ark is preparation.

Re:Scammers

[tburkhol]

When 'civilization' collapses, the only thing will matter is loyalty. As long as the banks and the trains work, wealthy people can buy an approximation of loyalty, but that often turns into resentment if monetary power is removed.

So here's this bunch of maintenance, security, and chandler staff, maintaining an elaborate panic-complex for paranoid billionaires. Maybe for decades; probably never to be used. How do you get those people to be loyal enough to those (probably unseen) clients, that they'll choose to spend the rest of their lives in the Vault with Paris Hilton and Donald Trump and let cousin Billy and the hot waitress at Chili's die in a fire? Money is only a motivator when there is a civilization to spend it in.

You seem to be conflating two kinds of shelter: one where a handful of rich elites could hold out against armed, post-apocalyptic mobs, and one where an armed, not-quite apocalyptic force could overcome the defenders. If the facility is not defensible enough for its staff to disable access controls and hold against the evacuating clients, then there's no way said clients could hold against starving mobs.

Take my money!

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Wait...don't take my money.

"The San Diego businessman is gunning to be the vanguard of a multibillion-dollar industry."

Or he'll bilk lots of people out of tons of money and then retire as the company goes down in flames.

Re:Take my money!

[hey!]

Seriously, if civilization actually does fall apart exactly who is going to compel him to honor his promises? There won't be any courts to sue him, and the people who paid him to do their apocalypse preparation for them will be... unprepared.

So either way the people (if any) who pay for these things will never get to use them.

Re:Take my money!

[aXis100]

$35k gets you four people to a room - it's nice, but not opulent. According to TFA, the real luxury ones were $3 - $5 million.

Re:Take my money!

[Deadstick]

"Some other fraud" is the most likely of your list. He'll make a shitload of money selling people something that won't help.

to paraphrase Alice in Dilbert

[iggymanz]

to paraphrase Alice in Dilbert: I don't need to spend the money for a luxury bomb shelter. When civilization ends, I only need guns, burglary tools, and the addresses of luxury bomb shelters

Re:to paraphrase Alice in Dilbert

[0123456]

You plan to burglarize a place you know is occupied with armed individuals who are already waiting for you to turn up?

Burglars generally aren't very smart. If they were smart, they'd be bankers.

First reported in 2012

[DerekLyons]

First reported on /. back in 2012

Re:First reported in 2012

[fyngyrz]

c'mon, man. Recycling is trendy.

Will gated communities become domed cities?

[swb]

How long until the gated community phenomenon becomes the walled/domed city phenomenon? The doming part might be unrealistic, but it's not hard to see the the gated community become the "bunker community" where the master plan includes bunkers and defensive barriers to make the whole thing one huge luxury fortress?

Move to Switzerland

[mspohr]

Switzerland still requires that all residences have bomb shelters. Most people build an individual shelter in the basement. Some communities have a community shelter. The government also has an extensive (semi-secret) network of bomb shelters in the mountains... also lots of military equipment in mountain bomb shelters.
They are ready.

Re:Move to Switzerland

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true anymore.

Re:Move to Switzerland

[AHuxley]

The Swiss complexes have been totally mapped by many other nations thanks to walk in offers by trusted staff going back decades. Lots of cash and shared politics can get copies of any secure paper work.

When the shit hits the fan...

[bmo]

...your best bet is to be friends with and rely on your neighbors.

If you are a "prepper" and think that you can wait out a siege in your bomb shelter or bunker or whatever, you are sadly mistaken. There are more of them/us than there are of you, and if you are especially one of the people who are already separating yourself from general society because you think you're better, you're hosed.

Good luck. You'll need it.

--
BMO

echoes of a dark past . . .

[swell]

Buyers should first consider the fate of Prince Prospero who hoped to avoid the death that awaited all the common people. You may have seen the movie "The Masque of the Red Death" starring Vincent Price. Or you may wish to read the very short story written by E. A. Poe in 1842 ... but with roots in the distant past:
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hy...

Re:Prepare Now and Die Last

[I'm New Around Here]

Most of that description describes my childhood. We lived on a farm, so had the food stored. We had about 10,000 quarts of canned vegetables, a freezer full of meat that either we raised or was locally raised, wood stoves in two rooms, gas range in the kitchen with a full gas tank in the front yard, hurricane lanterns and candles for light, and batteries for the radio. Water was no problem, since in the winter it was all over the ground just waiting to be collected. In the summer we would fill a few 5-gallon buckets whenever the weather looked bad. And since our well water was very clean, we didn't have to worry about the iodine tablets. We even had fresh milk, since we could walk across the road and buy a pitcher of it from the dairy farmer.

This got us through the blizzards each winter, with the normal 2 weeks with no power, and the random 1 week most summers from thunderstorms. At the time, I just considered it normal living.

Better Deal

[frovingslosh]

He wants $35,000 for a reserved space in one of his luxury shelters? Heck, for only $24,999 I'll reserve a space for you in one of my four star luxury shelters. We don't even tell anyone where they are until the complete breakdown of civilization, so that the armed thugs don't come and impose their selves on you. But we'll somehow contact you after the complete fall of civilization and take you to your closest luxury four star shelter to sit out the fall of mankind. Note: Minor local inconveniences do not qualify as end of civilization events You can only claim your reserved space in our deluxe four start shelters after the complete collapse of the court system. Send your money now.

cheap

[Tom]

If you're a billionaire, then 35k is not even worth discussing, even the $3 mio. for an actual space is a minor expense. Easily comparable to what we normal people pay for, say, car insurance. So it's really just that: An "just in case" expense.