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Ukrainian Hacker Who Targeted Brian Krebs Extradited To US (go.com)
JustAnotherOldGuy writes: A Ukrainian man who allegedly tried to frame cyber-security expert Brian Krebs has been extradited to the United States and is due in Newark federal court today, prosecutors said. Sergei Vovnenko, known as "Fly," "Flycracker" or "Flyck," is thought to have been behind a 2013 plot to send heroin to cyber-security blogger Brian Krebs, a plot Krebs himself said he foiled because he was monitoring the site where it was hatched. "Angry that I'd foiled his plan to have me arrested for drug possession," Krebs wrote on his blog, "Fly had a local florist send a gaudy floral arrangement in the shape of a giant cross to my home, complete with a menacing message."
Or he felt too secure sitting in a country half a planet away.
Like my boss once said, having a police record is no recommendation in this biz. Yes, it means that you did something. But it also means that you were either too sloppy, to crappy or too arrogant to cover your tracks well.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Ugh, why does the US get to force other countries to extradite people who violate US laws? They pressured Sweden into charging Julian Assange with sexual assault because of the leaked cables and then pushed the UK to keep him trapped in the Ecuadorian embassy under guard. Now they're forcing countries to extradite their own citizens for breaking US laws. There's no reason why other countries should be forced to follow US laws.
I've often thought it must be more fun when you don't feel compelled to base your opinions on actual facts.
#DeleteChrome
Did he miss the travel advisory for Italy?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09...
you generally can't extradite someone if they what the did was legal in their country
It's called an extradition treaty, and it works both ways. Also, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that attempting to frame someone for possession of heroin and botnet-related crimes are illegal both in the US and in Ukraine.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
"There's no reason why other countries should be forced to follow US laws."
Well, except for those pesky extradition treaties, trade deals, and billions of dollars of course...
Sooner or later Mr. Krebs is going to cost the bad guys enough money that they will decide he is actually worth dealing with.
Ride the wave Brian, but watch your back.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
No, in the case of the USA, it doesn't work both ways.
So some nobody dies in Ukraine. Way to send a message dude.
I think he's learned his lesson.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Currently, he is not convicted, so legally he is only suspected to have tried to frame Brian Krebs for heroin possession. And thus the article said he was thought to be behind the framing. More will be known after trial, when both plaintiff and defense have presented their side of the case, and a jury and then a judge have decided.
It's called an extradition treaty, and it works both ways. Also, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that attempting to frame someone for possession of heroin and botnet-related crimes are illegal both in the US and in Ukraine.
The U.S and Ukraine do not have a extradition treaty. He was apprehended in Italy, a country with which the U.S has a extradition treaty. In any case with Kiev needing Washington's support in its fight with Russian backed rebels I doubt they would have much of a problem handing a politically-unconnected criminal over, even without a extradition treaty.
When was the last time US allowed extradition of a US citizen to a foreign country?
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
Surely, "thought" is a long way short of being sufficient to extradite someone ?
You are aware that this is a newspaper article, and not the actual extradition request?
Happens more often than you would think. I don't know when the "last" time was, but in 2013 it occurred.
http://www.680news.com/2013/06...
I'll give you one example I could find:
Since 2003, 33 UK citizens (including some with dual citizenship) have been extradited to the US, while 7 US citizens have been extradited to the US.
Not exactly equal numbers, but yeah, it actually does go both ways. It's not really too surprising that more criminals would be extradited to the US than from. This can be explained by the fact that the US is probably the world's biggest target, both economically and politically. For instance, there are many foreigners (and in fact, foreign countries) who counterfeit US banknotes. There's less motivation for US citizens to target foreign nationals or corporations than vice versa.
Or, I suppose you could chalk it up to some nefarious reason why the US government would want to harbor suspected US criminals, though I can't for the life of me figure out why they would want to do so.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Oops, I meant to type "while 7 US citizens have been extradited to the UK".
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Ugh, why does the US get to force other countries to extradite people who violate US laws? They pressured Sweden into charging Julian Assange with sexual assault because of the leaked cables and then pushed the UK to keep him trapped in the Ecuadorian embassy under guard. Now they're forcing countries to extradite their own citizens for breaking US laws. There's no reason why other countries should be forced to follow US laws.
The US certainly has a...distinctly mixed...history when it comes to shoving around countries that it thinks it can get away with; but this guy is being extradited for breaking US law within US jurisdiction, just using the internet to telecommute to the crime site.
Since many crimes can only be properly committed in person, it's probably more common for extradition treaties to get called in when somebody flees from Country A to Country B; but if you can commit a crime in Country A from the comfort of Country B(whether because you are doing computer intrusions and have internet access, or are hiring a hit man the old fashioned way), the principle is exactly the same.
It'd be pretty dodgy if the US wanted a Ukrainian guy grabbed for crimes not committed within American jurisdiction; but in this case the allegation is that he committed a fair few in the US, among other places.
They aren't forced. There are things called extradition treaties. Read about them. They are the exact opposite of force. They are an agreement between two countries. Now to be fair I'm not sure the US has a treaty with Ukraine but they CHOSE to send him and why wouldn't they? They are looking for the United States' backing more than ever now. It only makes sense to turn over a criminal.
Time makes more converts than reason
For something that works both ways, there are very few cases where Americans are extradited to other countries. Take your pick as to why and one does not exclude the other.
1) The US does not respect the treaty
2) The US laws are more restrictive than the rest of the world
3) The US are more about revenge than they are about anything else.
There might be other reasons:
1) US criminals are so smart they never get caught
2) All US criminals are already in jail
3) Criminals rather stay in a US prison than in e.g. a Norwegian one, so they never risk it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Maybe you're not a US citizen so I will explain how it works to you. You are suspected or "thought" to be behind a crime. If the evidence warrants the charge a trial is conducted. The trial determines whether you actually did it. I know this must be confusing for some people living in countries where you are guilty immediately and the trial is just a show.
Time makes more converts than reason
Except he was attempting to frame someone inside of the United States. To be honest, I'd wish this guy would get thrown in an Ukrainian prison than an American one. I'm sure the prisons in Ukraine are a lovely place to stay.
But you know, lets make this about Assange again. Assange is a coward really, he wanted to change the world, but then when the shit hit the fan, he went and hid.
Ugh, why does the US get to force other countries to extradite people who violate US laws?
Because when you've got the biggest dick in the room, you tend to do a lot of fucking.
Don't worry, the drunken crazy military spending that the U.S. is putting on its credit card will eventually stop when they can't afford the minimum payments on said credit card anymore. Then the party will end, their dick will shrink, and they'll wake up with a hangover realizing that they're in tens of trillions of dollars in debt with no way to ever pay it off.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
It's sad that you think that trying to send someone a pile of heroin with the intent of framing said person is "mundane".
Can we do this to you? What's your address bro? I got some good smack to uhh..deliver to you.
No....it would be... "A well known hacker working out of Ukraine was found with 3 bullets in his head yesterday". Sounds like it might work as a good deterrent knowing that if you keep this shit up, Seal Team 6 might pay you a visit with a double-tap to the cerebellum as a parting gift...
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
Population is also a factor. Crimes warranting extradition probably occur at a rate of 1 per x million citizens. The US has 5 times as many people as the UK, and surprise, almost exactly 5 times as many extraditions.
We KNOW that GWB committed war crimes in Iraq, but that doesn't seem to be enough for HIS extradition !
What war crimes would those be? Who has charged him and asked for his extradition?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Except that is backwards. The UK has 5 times as many people extradited from 1/5 the population.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Welp, that's embarrassing. And I work with numbers for a living...
because the us supplies defense to europe.
When was the last time US allowed extradition of a US citizen to a foreign country?
Here is one from a couple weeks ago: US citizen extradited to South Korea over high-profile 1997 murder
2) The US laws are more restrictive than the rest of the world
This is backwards. You can only be extradited if the act is a crime in both the US and the other country, and if the punishment in the requesting country is not extremely out of line compared to the requested country's, so if the US laws were more restrictive it wouldn't increase the number of extraditions. On the other hand, many countries would like to extradite people from the US for crimes that are not a crime in the US, like for insulting the king, and for others the potential penalty is considered too harsh, such as flogging, have a hand cut off, or even execution, for crimes like theft or drug offenses.
1) US criminals are so smart they never get caught
I think this missed the mark some. More likely, the investigative ability by US authorities is better than most other countries, so the US is more likely to be able to determine who committed the crime, and to where they fled. You can't request extradition unless you know whom to extradite, and from where. You can then add in that US criminals may be better educated than the world average for crooks, so are better at not being caught.
And a few more potential factors you missed:
4) If a criminal flees from a non-US country, due to extradition treaties they are much more likely to flee to a country other than the US.
5) A lot of the recent extraditions are for cyber activities (like this one), but there is a disproportionate cyber presence between the US and most other countries, both in terms of number, and in terms of wealth that makes it more likely for a Ukrainian crook to commit fraud against a US person or company than it is for a US crook to commit fraud against a Ukrainian.
6) For similar reasons, namely wealth and wealth disparity, US entities get targeted more than many other countries. For example, people from South Africa are much more likely to come to the US to steal than a US person is to go to South Africa to steal. If they flee back home, who is going to asking for extradition from whom, and in what kind of numbers?
There are more, but I think that gets the point across.
There were US war crimes in Iraq. The question would be if Bush was responsible for some of them.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes