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Bank's Severance Deal Requires IT Workers To Be Available For Two Years (computerworld.com)
dcblogs points out this story at Computerworld about a severance agreement that requires laid-off IT employees to be available to help out for two years. The article reads in part: "SunTrust Banks in Atlanta is laying off about 100 IT workers as it moves work offshore. But this layoff is unusual for what it is asking of the soon-to-be displaced workers: The bank's severance agreement requires terminated employees to remain available for two years to provide help if needed, including in-person assistance, and to do so without compensation. Many of the affected IT employees, who are now training their replacements, have years of experience and provide the highest levels of technical support. The proof of their ability may be in the severance requirement, which gives the bank a way to tap their expertise long after their departure. The bank's severance includes a 'continuing cooperation' clause for a period of two years, where the employee agrees to 'make myself reasonably available' to SunTrust 'regarding matters in which I have been involved in the course of my employment with SunTrust and/or about which I have knowledge as a result of my employment at SunTrust.'"
Okay, sure, I have to cooperate and provide help completely free of charge. But that doesn't mean I have to provide competent help, or that I will actually remember everything.
seems to be a lot of missing information here. I would assume part of the severance package is some sort of final payment, otherwise no sane individual would agree to such terms. depending on what that final package was this could be a completely insane illegal request for free labour or it could be a quite reasonable request that they were compensated for up front in case it eventuates.
Time lawyer up.
Unless the severance included two years full pay ....
"I'm sorry, I can't get time off my current job" - which isn't 'unreasonable'.
Quite some time ago, I led an IRC channel called #badadvice. As you can probably gather from the name, the purpose of the channel was to give plausible-sounding but hilariously and catastrophically bad advice to submitted questions. The more the responders knew about the subject, the better they were at dispensing bad advice. We did this for free, but our raison d'être was right there in the name of the channel. Anyone taking our "advice" seriously was a moron.
Guess what? That's the quality of service the bank should be expecting from its former employees. If they have to do it for free, many lulz are going to be had.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. Unless the severance package amounts to 2 years salary then you are basically working for free. Oh and by the way...we want you to train the offshore people. No thanks.
If the terms are unreasonable, walk away.
and inflation you'd be very, very lucky if you had the savings to say no. Also, at least here in Arizona businesses have a million ways to weasel out of unemployment, and Georgia isn't exactly well know as a bastion of workers rights. There really isn't a safety net out there, and unless you're very, very lucky you won't be knitting one yourself...
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Aside from just being an unbelievably gigantic dick move; this arrangement seems rather foolish on the bank's part: I suspect that they are correct in thinking that they have enough leverage to get the contract signed; but they can't seriously imagine that (even if the terms hold up in court) they'll be able to compel competent, motivated, actual-best-effort assistance under terms that are such an overt screwjob. And for something like software engineering or complex IT projects, do you really want people with good reasons to hate you and absolutely no incentive to do more than bare minimum touching anything? You've already axed them, so they have no incentive to do anything more than whatever is required to avoid legal action.
You'd think that it would be much more sensible(even if some asshole bean-counter thinks that it looks like leaving money on the table) to not fuck them over; so that they might actually be willing to do some contracting for you in good faith and with actual effort.
>and to do so without compensation
Would seem unenforceable.
I've been asked to sign "unconscionable" severance papers before, including ones that forbid me from revealing the existence of such agreements - obviously, I didn't sign - and there were no negative consequences for me.
If nothing of value is offered in return, it's not a contract. Goodwill of my former employer who has stopped employing me with minimal notice and no promise of future return doesn't count as "of value."
>and to do so without compensation
Would seem unenforceable.
Indeed. Compelling someone to work for less than minimum wage is illegal. For instance, unpaid internships are generally illegal in America.
If nothing of value is offered in return, it's not a contract.
I believe the thing of value is the severance check. When my company last did a layoff, the terminatees were give one month of pay for each year of employment ... unless they refused to sign the severance agreement, in which case they got zilch. Everyone signed, but it was a very standard agreement, with no weird clauses ... basically an agreement not to steal anything and an agreement not to sue.
Not only is this "just deserts", but it's also quite probable. Institutional and architectural information tends to fade quickly, at least for myself. 6 months into a new job and I will only have passing knowledge on the systems. 1 year out and I'm back to almost square one with a weird sense of deja-foo ( on purpose ).
So fuck them. Take the money, develop amnesia and when they come calling, create chaos under the guise of "being helpful".
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Employers aren't required to give you anything when they let you go, other than your final paycheck for whatever time you've worked but they haven't yet paid. However sometimes they will give you a "severance" which is additional pay. It can range anything for a meager token to a pretty hefty chunk of change. Generally better employers will offer one. Also employers will sometimes use them as a way to get people to leave voluntarily to avoid forced layoffs.
Usually, they don't come with strings attached. This one is extremely irregular. Either the severance package is really good so they expect people will take it despite the shit condition, they figure their employees are really desperate for money and will take it anyhow, or they are really out of touch.
Personally in a situation like that I'd be really tempted to do as other have suggested and take it, but then act like a completely forgetful idiot whenever I'm called in and generally be completely useless. Realistically I'd probably strike the availability cause in the contract and sign it. If they countersigned, great I get money with no strings, if they refuse I'd walk without the extra money because I don't need those conditions over my head.
" I agree, beginning on September 1, 2009 and continuing for a period of twenty-four (24) months immediately thereafter, to provide assistance and to make myself reasonably available to SunTrust and its employees, attorneys and/or accountants with respect to investigations, audits, litigation or potential litigation regarding matters in which I have been involved in the course of my employment with SunTrust or any subsidiary and/or about which I have knowledge as a result of my employment with SunTrust."
It's well past 24 months after Sept 1, 2009. Clause therefore nullifies itself.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
That is called handling things in a professional, reasonable, humane, and human manner. The way it should be.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I am amused at this mythical "professionalism" you invoke. An employer can treat you like shit and you're supposed to forever be their slave? You are to be a doormat for the one percent, sacrificing your life and happiness for theirs?
Let's instead contemplate concepts like "righteous vengefulness", "malicious compliance", "taking down the oppressor", etc.
Um..yes. Just YES
Well, go ahead and see how that works out for you. My guess: you'll be behind bars, while the rest of us will knock the dust off our sandals and go on to the next job.
Professionalism begins with a sense of self-respect and value of the work we provide for others. I for one won't sully that with sabotage, no matter how impertinent a former employer behaves.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
These kinds of agreements ought not to be necessary. I've been in IT for so long I was there when you soldered together your own microcomputer... video games didn't exist yet.
I took pride in every system I worked in or supported. If I left a company on good terms, I'd answer any question at any time day or night if they needed me to.
Hell, I got calls from a company I hadn't worked at for 15 years, 3AM - moron in the computer room claimed my name was still on the list as the Level III to fix the printer bridge... No one else was available. It was in a Hospital - I knew that if that printer didn't work, patients didn't get their meds.
So I dug out my old ID badge, got dressed and drove over. The guard let me in, told me to get a new badge in the AM, and I rebooted the damn thing (still the same system - just running on a VM in a newer box now).
I called my old boss the next day (he's the CIO now) - told him what happened, and to take me out for dinner... I got a nice steak and a great conversation out of it. Consulting deals too. And WE updated the list in the computer room :-)
If I left on less than great terms, then screw 'em. I don't remember unless there's Benjamin's per hour for me to remember.
Compensate me well, I'll treat you well. Treat me like shit, send my job overseas, and expect me to train my replacement? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.... ummmm, no.
If nothing of value is offered in return, it's not a contract.
I've tried to tell people this many, many times here on Slashdot. You might be surprised at how many people said I was nuts.
Don't forget, also, that a contract is supposed to be negotiable by both parties... otherwise it's pretty much impossible to call it an "agreement". A take-it-or-leave-it "contract" offered by a corporation is often considered a "Contract of Adhesion", over which judges traditionally give greater weight to the signer's position.
You mean, what alread happens when training your replacement?
I never fully understood why anyone would think that you could tell someone that he is basically already fired, that the new guy is his replacement and then expect him to train him honestly. Yes, I used to be "professional" like that, until I noticed that this kind of "professionalism" gets abused too easily. You want to replace me? Do it. But expecting me to be stupid enough to help you with it insults my intelligence.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well, see, they had to bring in all those H1-B workers because they couldn't find qualified Americans!
Sorry. There's no "Irony" mod.
Unemployment compensation is weekly or bi-weekly. Severance is paid out all at once. Relating the two makes no sense unless you relate the severance to a duration of unemployment compensation. If it only for a week or two, I wouldn't even consider it... since any severance received only further delays when unemployment compensation may be received by effectively pushing forward the date of termination (ie, if you are paid two weeks normal salary as severance, then your effective date of termination is pushed forward exactly two weeks, and you must wait that much longer to receieve benefits). Severance is generally preferable to unemployment benefits in that it is money that is in your hands right now, and does not have any wait time associated with like unemployment benefits ordinarily does. Ideally, one will find new work before their unemployment benefits even start, and in that case, will be further ahead anyways.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'