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Ask Slashdot: Innovative Operating Systems/Distros In 2015?
iamacat writes: Back in 90s, we used Linux not only because of open source, but also for innovative features not found in commercial operating systems — better multitasking, network power features like slirp and masquerading, free developer tools for many languages. Nowadays OSX and Windows caught up in these areas and mainstream distros like Ubuntu dumbed down in default configuration. So where to go for active innovation like 3D/VR desktop, artificial intelligence, drag and drop ability to mash up UI of multiple apps or just drastically better performance? Something maybe rough around the edges but usable and exciting enough to use as daily desktop?
There's no such thing, what you're looking for is probably either a bleeding edge Linux distro, or doesn't exist.
better multitasking
Then what specific OS?
network power features like slirp and masquerading
How were either of these unique to Linux?
free developer tools for many languages.
So no different than BSD?
Back in 90s, we used Linux not only because of open source, but also for innovative features not found in commercial operating systems — better multitasking, network power features like slirp and masquerading, free developer tools for many languages.
None of what you mention was a unique feature of Linux or even pioneered by it. All of what you talk about were already part of Unix systems that existed prior or was software that existed before Linux even existed and was already cross-platform.
Back in the 1990's, you had to roll your own kernel and modules. If you were lucky, all the hardware worked. Most of the time it didn't. Nothing worked out of the box. Today's kids have it too easy. Now get off my lawn!
Just because Ubuntu dumbed down doesn't mean you need to use it. Slakware is still out there. Arch, Gentoo, Debian, Fedora, etc. are all a bit rougher and all have a bit more "exciting stuff". Still, the submittor's main problem is that he needs to go into a StarTrek movie. Truly innovative ideas in operating systems, like Plan9 and Eros, end up with less "drag and drop ability to mash up UI of multiple apps" (whatever that means) than the mainstream. Most of the innovation is now best done on the level of the application anyway.
better multitasking
Than what? Windows? I'm pretty sure it didn't have better multitasking than a real Unix in the 90s.
network power features like slirp and masquerading
Slirp supported commercial Unixes like Solaris. IP masquerading could also be done on BSDs and other Unixes as well.
free developer tools for many languages
The GNU tools could be run on commercial Unixes even before Linux existed.
They say that P-P-P-PowerOS is rather nice, but it only runs on specific laptops.
"Oh, goodness. Look at my wrist, I have to go." "But what about your clothes?" "I don't love these."
TFS must've been written by a Slav: no "a" in any of it... ;)
Holy crap, I just got bingo!!
Exciting?? What the hell? You want 'exciting' plug a Windows box direct to the intertubes with no firewall.
I heard some crazy guy has a "praise jeebus" operating system or something, but I'm pretty sure I have never once heard anybody say "gee, what I want is a desktop which is exciting to use".
New features which serve a purpose are good, but this screams of asking for pointless and shiny because you seem think it should be there.
Give me Tony Stark's Iron Man interface, and I'll be excited. Everything else is just pointless eye candy of people making something whiz bang which doesn't actually do anything.
Otherwise we're just resurrecting the SGI "Hey, this is UNIX" interface from Jurassic Park. (And, yes, it was a real interface.)
Now get off my damned lawn.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Operating systems are for LUDDITES. Modern app appers app apps using APPerating systems, like AppOS or AppApp!
Apps!
Given the trend of everyone including Debian jumping on being completely systemd/RedHat controlled then the most innovative distros are clearly the ones that stands up for its users and don't allow untested unaudited code which exposes open network ports as root as a core functionality.
There is so much innovation these days that it has transcended the separation-by-OS that used to handily signal where and what kind of changes you could expect. As an example, if you're looking for an experimental graphical terminal emulator it turns out you can use it in Windows and OS X, but not in Linux. But the point is, it's not available on one OS in particular and it's even a virtue now to be cross-platform. There's so much new tech out there and it all happens on a huge variety of platforms. So trying out new tech is just a matter of focusing (for example: system software, graphics software, hardware support, kernel-level new stuff, software in embedded systems, hardware sensors, etc.) and then deciding what the required resources are to dive in on that specific level. What OS or OSes would be best, what packages should you install, and so on.
Going back to your examples, 3D/VR desktop work has been going on since the 80s at least, and AI before that, and "drastically better performance" has always been on peoples' minds. The GUI mashups even ring a bell, though everything is so scriptable these days that anyone who's doing a GUI mashup would probably be less frustrated just typing it into a reusable script. These aren't new topics, they change over time incrementally, and the only advice I can give is to make sure you are _really_ looking at the high-end tech that you think you are. If you are frustrated with a slow system, did it cost less than $10K? Because that's commodity-level pricing. If you are frustrated with the 3D effects you just enabled on your desktop, did you really research the state of the art? And so on.
Also, just to nitpick--you say Ubuntu is dumbed-down in "default configuration" but Windows and OS X are dumbed down by default too, aren't they? That's why you have package managers, Ninite, the App Store, etc. Restore your purchases or download a set of things and you're out of the dumbzone.
Linux Mint and SteamOS
Why?'
They allow easier migration from Windows to Linux on the desktop (Linux Mint with Cinnamon) and SteamOS for driving hardware drivers from graphics vendors and bringing games cross platform.
The past couple of Ubuntu releases have been fairly "boring" stability releases, but 16.04 is looking to have some exciting new features: Mir (replacement for X.org), Snappy Core (replacement for .DEB packages, to compete with Docker), and Unity8 convergence. The goal is that somebody will be able to carry around an Ubuntu Phone that morphs from a touchscreen smartphone to a full-fledged desktop when it connects to a dumb terminal. If it's a hit, then I imagine in the future, it will also serve as a console for smart-homes ("Internet of Things"), cars, and VR projection.
Maybe that doesn't excite anybody else, but for me, the idea of having a smartphone replace all of my electronics and not having to worry about file syncing, networking, etc. is awesome.
Stronger heritage of what? The OP was referring to innovative features.
AT&T didn't stop with inventing UNIX their next OS was Plan 9 which has never has much commercial success....
I'm pretty sure you want this: http://www.menuetos.net/
Slackware. It just keeps working
Take a look at Squeak ( http://squeak.org/ ). As it turns out most things in the future will have their roots in the discarded ideas of the past. As far as programming languages take a look at Erlang and Elixir (computer languages are the operating systems of the future). I expect the capability model and the actor model will get a lot more popular in the future. In the future computers will be networks, applications will be distributed applications.
Yeah you haven't ever used OS X, have you? Not today, not 15 years ago.
Have you tried ninnle linux? It's pretty cutting-edge... and no system d shit!
Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
www.menuetos.net now seems innovative with it's unnbloatedness and emphasis on speed. The simple assembly programming model make it a good choice for beginners. It is also great for hard real time.
Iif you want one with a random bullshit generator, just choose whatever the OP runs.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I think they just mean that it has multiple desktops by default.
And maybe compositing so you can have have transparent terminals.
That is all.
"Something maybe rough around the edges but usable and exciting enough to use as daily desktop?"
Yup, that's pretty much the definition of Enlightenment
I love the Terminology terminal emulator and wish it was easier to install on non-Enlightenment distros.
Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
So you are saying that OS X is "innovative" because it consists largely of 1980's technology (NextStep, BSD, Smalltalk, OO dev tools)? Seems to me that that makes it about three decades behind the times.
It is very exciting to use! You'd want to destroy keyboard, screen, or the computer itself after you use it for a bit.
How about, the desktop is dead. Mobile is here to take its place. (Yes, I realize you can't run a server on a mobile phone - or at least it would be really stupid to.)
If BSD is "1980's technology" then Linux is 1960's technology.
Speaking for myself, I use Linux distros at home for these reasons:
1. They're not Microsoft, Apple or Google.
2. There is less "telemetry" from my Linux boxes to OS megacorps(see #1)
3. Linux desktops have become reasonably reliable and stable, and yes, I've been using Unix/Linux since late 90s.
4. I enjoy trying out different distros/software, configuring the software, seeing the different ways things work in different distros, etc
5. Linux is fun!
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
Is there no one with a suggestion for a new operating environment (or OS) to answer the OP's question?
(No, I don't know of one either)
MirageOS (https://mirage.io/) is the most interesting OS project I've seen in a long time, but it's hard to describe. Approximately, it's a framework and collection of libraries that compile applications written in OCaml into unikernels that run on top of Xen.
So far as Linux goes, Chrome OS seems like the best engineered Linux userland at this point.
If Microsoft hadn't already made so many blunders in the past, I'd be inclined to think that Windows 8 was an honest prank. Hell, even in light of their many other blunders, I still think there's a chance it actually WAS a prank.
Followed by the perennial GNU HURD, which released a new version this year and the next release after Ubuntu's Zealous Zebra.
For anyone looking to get their hands dirty, I always recommend to try out Funtoo Linux.
Try out various kernels (even BSD kernels), choice between 3 init systems, and all the customization you want.
Seriously. Try it. www.funtoo.org
Several companies announced resistive or whatever memory that is almost as fast as DRAM, while also non-volatile, cheap and big like flash. We need an architecture that takes full advantage of that. Keep the programs and data in place (instead of the usual RAM to/from disk joggling), optimize the I/O and CPU differently...
HP announced some work in this direction with their "Machine", but for now I believe all they have is some slightly customized Linux distro.
If I remember correctly, PalmOS had some good ideas in this direction.
Whoever implements an efficient architecture for this, has a good chance to be a great thought leader for the next 30 years. There is really an opportunity for a new Linux-level (or even UNIX-level) innovation right now.
How so? Linux was developed after BSD.
Sorry, we are at the top of the s-curve. Forget about innovation and expect incremental enhancements.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Most distros are innovative in that they're changing to systemd (apparently because that enables easier distro making). But it's a source of problems (hopefully transient).
Many distros are trying to adapt to UEFI, itself very annoying, and some already managed to overcome it. It seems I've read it is a source of insecurity, actually.
Some distros are innovative in that they claim to be orientated to old computers and surprinsingly cannot run on some 586 and 686 CPUs lacking a single instruction: SSE2. A few Slackware derivatives still work in these not-so-old chips (some to be sold until 2017). Forget Debian, BTW. It "innovated", too.
And some, of course, kicked the "old CPU" support concept entirely and went for 64-bit only. That's innovating, too, though not the kind I like.
The OP does not refer to that, probably, but apps are evolving at a steady pace. Libreoffice is becoming much more responsive and complete. Browsers like Firefox improved a lot.
Distros nowadays seem more conscious about new challenges. It's not just about competing with Windows and iOS anymore: from aesthetics to apps to kernel features, one sees them trying to outdo one another.
The French have been particularly impressive but some USA distros also draw attention, just by way of example.
What is probably most noticeable is the lack of incursion on certain areas, like tablet and smart phone installation -- probably due to the great diversity in hardware (or so I've read). Yeah, I know, Android is a Linux distro, but then even some traditional Linux distros don't make it easy for us to update and upgrade -- and this is extremely important.
Where else, but the Apollo Giudance Computer or Data General's RDOS. Oh wait, it does not have .NET or Node.JS so maybe it is not so innovative.
Temple OS.
The trash, where the 3D desktop concept belongs.
To be fair to the submitter, in 1990s, it was Mac OS 7,8,9 back then. Apple didn't buy NeXT until 1996 and didn't release OS X until 1999. Even then I don't consider it comparable to OS 9 until Jaguar (10.2) in 2002.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
There are a lot of things that can be done in the open source arena but things like AI are too valuable for universities to give away and often require physical datacenters to train and use. Siri, Cortana etc. are not in my opinion likely to emerge through part time collaboration and unlike drivers, there isn't really an incentive for the big players such as Google to give it away. The good news is that most consumer facing AI/Digital Assistants will simply be a web service that someone could write a front end to. So it might not ever be truly built into the OS but it will be accessible through any platform. The real impediment to open operating systems is that there needs to be an incentive to develop a feature and currently if it doesn't make for a better server (e.g. file system, networking, super computer fabric, virtualization, webhosting etc) it probably won't get much attention from the community or industry.
OP demonstrated that he doesn't know the subject matter and then asked a stupid question. OP may as well have said that we used Linux for designing for Dr. Dre and asked which Kardashian is the coolest.
Everything else is either dead or on its way out. The only real threat to Apple's complete dominance of computing is perhaps Android but Google is too greedy and too stupid to capitalize on its strengths.
Regarding AI I'd take a look at the Mycroft project.
https://mycroft.ai/
Still getting started but have plans for AI on the desktop.
Complexity Happens
http://www.gobolinux.org/ try this
NixOS has a package manager that I think has a real shot at achieving scalability and repeatability in package management. Once something works in NixOS it will keep working on it's own, since specific versions of dependencies are tracked and can coexist, whereas in mainstream distros shit breaks all the time. The current model of freezing everything once in a while and patching up some of the most obviously broken stuff simply isn't keeping up with the pace of software development IMHO. http://nixos.org/ For a real moonshot OS/language/decentralize_all_the_things project, check out Urbit: http://urbit.org/
Never seen such blatant flamebait get posted on Slashdot.
All the leading OS still don't deviate much from traditional kernel design approaches, the main "innovation" i'm interested in for a modern OS is provable reliability... by provable i don't mean empirical and observable reliability (e.g FreeBSD), i mean reliable by design: There are some pretty innovative concepts beyond the basic microkernel concepts in Minix 3, and unlike it's predecessors it's intended to be more than an educational tool.
^modup
A design for not making upgrades break and not freezing shit into obsolescence is neat.
>" Nowadays OSX [MacOS] and [MS-]Windows caught up in these areas"
Oh really? Perhaps quite a bit in just THOSE few areas which you listed, but in nowhere NEAR all the areas for which many of us continue to choose Linux. It is nice that Linux forced other operating systems to suck less than they used to, however :)
>"and mainstream distros like Ubuntu dumbed down in default configuration."
So then use one of the other [superior and yet excellent] Linux distros. I, for one, have never selected to use Ubuntu on any of my systems (beyond testing).
TFA asked for the most innovative OS and I would cast my vote for Windoze 10 - if nothing else, for its depressingly all encompassing spyware, watching your e-ve-ry key input, e-ve-ry site you visit, e-ve-ry program you use, what you do, how long you do it, where you go, and so on, and so forth
Yes, my vote for Windowze 10 is in jest, a kind of a protest vote against Microsoft
The OP is too narrow both in the specified OS groups and the timeframe. A lot of the really innovative OSes have dropped out of contention. Consider:
- BeOS;
- Amiga;
- Plan 9;
- NeXT (yeah, I know, it became OSX. Point is there was no OSX at the time, only MacOS).
There's nothing like this variety of OS choice now. We aren't exactly suffering for lack of choice, but when a whole new group and idea results in a new OS, truly new ways of working and organizing logic, presentation and systems management are on display.
The only remotely comparable innovation I can think of recently is iOS, which inspired the Metro/Modern components of Windows.
So you are saying that OS X is "innovative" because it consists largely of 1980's technology (NextStep, BSD, Smalltalk, OO dev tools)? Seems to me that that makes it about three decades behind the times.
Where did anyone actually say or imply what you are saying they did?
AmigaOS, BeOS, Plan9
Hopefully with higher resolution and better networking.
I find that Microsoft is really innovating in the user interface department these days.
Debian
Wait, you're serious? Loonix isn't an innovator. Silly rabbit.
RDP (or equivalent) to my Linux desktop? Yeah, it's a windows term but dammit, I want a SIMPLE (no, don't link me a damn 4 or 5 page wiki) way of viewing where I left off at work when I get home.
Seriously! Don't tell me it's coming in 20XX? Why the hell wasn't it here when windows was doing it 10 years ago?
Let me google that for you links welcome.
While not revolutionary in most regards, it is certainly a different take on modern PC usage.
For *years* windows users had to stop using a program before replacing it on disk. Linux users could replace/erase running programs at will. Its easy to update a system this way, test the new install (old program running beside new program), and then when all users have dropped connection, the old program is removed from memory, all new connections run by the new version of the program. Then there was the self cleaning file systems. For years windows users (usually those that had to do the work) insisted that people (even Linux users) *must* "defrag yer drive", but Linux had self-cleaning file systems (something developed by IBM about 1964), and drive fragmentation was not ever an issue. I don't know if windows users still have to do this or not. A major concern that came out of Microsoft Research was that (about 8 years ago) the newest shiniest Microsoft OS needed about 230 machine operations to do a context switch, and Linux do a context switch in 29. Linux has become retrograde in the last few years though. Ubuntu has dumbed a lot down, and the inclusion of systemd is more klusterfuk than innovation.
There were two systems in the works called Plan 9 and Inferno which sounded interesting. They were a distributed OS, so processing power on some one's idle PC would help complete a task for a server for example. It got really quiet for these two novel ideas, but I can still see a use case for them.
Try unity from Ubuntu, apparently it's the shit! /Ducks
For an innovative operating system and environment there is Genode OS http://www.genode.org/about/index
From the 'About' :
About Genode
is a tool kit for building highly secure special-purpose operating systems. It scales from embedded systems with as little as 4 MB of memory to highly dynamic general-purpose workloads.
Genode is based on a recursive system structure. Each program runs in a dedicated sandbox and gets granted only those access rights and resources that are needed for its specific purpose. Programs can create and manage sub-sandboxes out of their own resources, thereby forming hierarchies where policies can be applied at each level. The framework provides mechanisms to let programs communicate with each other and trade their resources, but only in strictly-defined manners. Thanks to this rigid regime, the attack surface of security-critical functions can be reduced by orders of magnitude compared to contemporary operating systems.
The framework aligns the construction principles of L4 with Unix philosophy. In line with Unix philosophy, Genode is a collection of small building blocks, out of which sophisticated systems can be composed. But unlike Unix, those building blocks include not only applications but also all classical OS functionalities including kernels, device drivers, file systems, and protocol stacks.
Features
CPU architectures: x86 (32 and 64 bit), ARM
Kernels: most members of the L4 family (NOVA, Fiasco.OC, OKL4 v2.1, L4ka::Pistachio, L4/Fiasco, Linux, and a custom kernel
Virtualization: VirtualBox (on NOVA), L4Linux (on Fiasco.OC), and a custom runtime for Unix software
Over 100 ready-to-use components
Genode is open source and commercially supported by Genode Labs.
Probably the most 'innovative' in that its approach is very non-tradititional. Seems like a good idea at this time:
https://www.qubes-os.org/
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
The Unix original architects were not really satisfied with Unix, but thought it could be improved. So they went and created a better OS, that should address all the short comings of Unix. They created Plan9. You should check it up. It has several novel features that slowly Unix/Linux is adapting, for instance the /proc directory. Inferno is a commercial Plan9 derivative. You know, the original Unix architects really knows operating systems. And they went further, the next step into Plan9. It seems to be really wicked and has many new concepts that are as far ahead all existing operating systems today, as Unix was ahead back then.
GoboLinux is very interesting due to it's innovation in file system organization.
GoboLinux is an alternative Linux distribution which redefines the entire filesystem hierarchy. /Programs/Xorg-Lib/7.4 and /Programs/KDE-Libs/4.2.0. Like it?
In GoboLinux you don't need a package database because the filesystem is the database: each program resides in its own directory, such as
http://www.gobolinux.org/
Ironically ReactOS is innovative:
https://www.reactos.org/
(ReactOS might incorporate some extra features allowing it to be superior to Windows in functionality.)
ReactOS® is a free open source operating system based on the best design principles found in the Windows NT® architecture (Windows versions such as Windows XP, Windows 7, Windows Server 2012 are built on Windows NT architecture). Written completely from scratch, ReactOS is not a Linux based system, and shares none of the UNIX architecture.
The main goal of the ReactOS® project is to provide an operating system which is binary compatible with Windows. This will allow your Windows® applications and drivers to run as they would on your Windows system. Additionally, the look and feel of the Windows operating system is used, such that people accustomed to the familiar user interface of Windows® would find using ReactOS straightforward. The ultimate goal of ReactOS® is to allow you to use it as alternative to Windows® without the need to change software you are used to.
Nothing as far as a distro (or desktop environment) with 3D VR or AI comes to mind but there is innovation in OS going on. Not many have attempted to answer the OP, so here's my list. Others mentioned Qubes, Urbit, and Mirage.io, which reminded me of Nix OS and HaLVM.
Both innovative and seems daily-driver ready:
1. Qubes OS - https://www.qubes-os.org/ - Linux distro that runs a Xen hypervisor to contain every app (including Windows ones) away from the desktop environment
2. Haiku OS - https://www.haiku-os.org/ - Tiny (under 200MB installed), Non-Linux that is binary-compatible with BeOS, nice understated GUI that is bland but usable
3. ReactOS - http://reactos.org/ - Win32 compatible open source OS, very active development scene working toward full NT kernel ABI compatibility. Seems stable enough to be a daily driver but hardware support is lacking
4. PC-BSD & freeBSD 10 - http://www.pcbsd.org/ http://www.freebsd.org/ - PC-BSD is a desktop distro of freeBSD 10 built for user-friendliness with automatic ZFS snapshoting and a nice graphical package manager, freeBSD 10 has a completely new package manager (pkg-ng replaces the 'pkg' binary)
5. Nix OS - https://nixos.org/ - Linux distro with innovative package manager promising atomic upgrades & rollback.
Innovative server-exclusive (ie no GUI):
5. SmartOS - https://smartos.org/ - Solaris + KVM + Docker w/ full Dtrace support. Claims ZFS as an innovation? Joyent is running a cloud of it
6. CoreOS - https://coreos.com/ - Linux distro exclusively for large Docker deployments. developing a suite of Go tools for datacenter management.
Innovative, but not ready for desktop use:
7. Redox OS - http://www.redox-os.org/ - OS written in Rust (rust-lang), which guarantees a lot of memory-safety, screenshots of desktop in 'News' section
8. Contiki OS - http://www.contiki-os.org/ - Linux distro for IoT embedded devices that claims an innovative network stack
9. Urbit - http://urbit.org/docs/user/int... - *nix distro with exclusively web-based userland, invite-only at the moment, doesn't seem like it will have a UI but that each user is the dev of their own interface
10. Mirage.io - http://mirage.io/ - Develop each app and compile into a single-purpose kernel to be run on some hypervisor
11. HaLVM - https://github.com/GaloisInc/H... - The Haskell Ligthweight Virtual Machine - which runs just the GHC on Xen, another 'build uni-purpose VMs' system
It's based on a very old design. Linus's goal was not to innovate.
Anyone who would look at OS X and say "this looks like an '80s OS" has got a screw loose.
The core technologies in OS X are quite mature, but the innovations in the UI set the pace for the 2000s.
Remember what Windows looked like before OS X came along? What Linux looked like?
It really comes down to what you are looking for. If you want visible features (I.e. UI enhancements and built in wizards to play around with), that's one thing. If you want under the hood features, that's another. Also, is this for yourself to experiment with and add to, or do you want an out of the box OS with just lots of goodies? For the former, all major OSs (plural) and distros are offering new goodies all the time. For the later, taking a look at a lot of OS research in the last couple of years, the persistent themes are security and virtualization. In that vein, you can go grab any number of research OSs to play around with that have revolutionary (or at least alternative) features such as sel4, BarrelFish, Minix, Hurd, L4, etc, etc, etc.
This is a rather new distro for ChromeOS devices. It aims to fix some of the common problems that standard Linux distributions have with these devices and improve performance.