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NASA Study Shows Net Gains For Antarctic Ice (google.com)
A widely circulated NASA study published in the Journal of Glaciology, and reported by UPI, says that Antarctic ice has measurably thickened in recent decades, a conclusion at odds with earlier findings from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, "which in 2013 suggested gains were not keeping up with losses." The new study ... doesn't totally undermine the handful of studies showing significant glacier, ice sheet and sea ice shrinkage. Instead, if offers evidence of previously unaccounted gains. ... The new tallies reveal an annual net gain of 112 billion tons between 1992 and 2001. Annual gains of 82 billion tons were observed between 2003 and 2008.
ManBearPig, wherefore art thou ...
Who funded it? Where did these people work before NASA? They need to be investigated.
Yesterday Antarctica was contributing 0.27mm p/y to sea level rise
Today Antarctica is removing 0.23mm p/y to sea level rise
A 0.5mm p/y change in a day.
We are told sea level is rising 2.6 to 2.9mm p/y so that 0.5mm p/y change is 16 - 20% of the total figure, that is a massive discrepancy.
Keep being told that the science is settled, this hardly looks like settled science to me.
But queue the alarmists, I am sure they will explain this is 'worse news than eva' and matches what they predicted.
Or wait a year or two and NASA will adjust the data based on models 'cause the real data doesn't match the models, and everyone knows models trump real data in climate science.
It's just weather!
After giving it a read (what a difficult paper to read!) I would take that study with a fair amount of healthy scepticisms.
The data they are using is fraught with issues (almost entirely satellite based, which has trouble with terrain slopes).
There has been a significant amount of work done to remove bias inherent to the data (because the data was modified from Oct 2003 onwards), and there is no provided analysis on effectiveness of the methods used (they don't mention the number of data points used as reference, so hard to calculate manually).
Part of the data is made up, all areas south of 86 S is generated based on algorithms rather than data.
And the very large elephant is the missing data between April 2001 and October 2003. Over two and a half years when the Antarctic was going through particularly bad times.
There is a lot of other stuff that I couldn't fully comprehend on my reading, and I might be missing some stuff that clarify's some of the above, but it is super clear that there are multiple points of failure in the reams of calculations and estimations.
It's probably more right than wrong, but not nearly enough to use this paper to build other assumption off.
They like to troll the AGW crowd with this kind of crap. Over to check the comments.
Antarctic ice has measurably thickened in recent decades, a conclusion at odds with earlier findings from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
That sounds like an...
*sunglasses*
inconvenient truth.
Yeaaaaahh!
Wrong. Churchill sad that, not Gates: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...
Because there's no global warming.
YHBT HAND
You forgot to mention the real threat.
MANBEARPIG!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Does this include denying global-warming studies so that chaos doesn't ensue when USA citizens are forced to live in greater relative harmony with the earth?
Requiem for the American Dream
"I am not Bill Gates." -- Bill Gates
It's just some more fuel for the bullshit climate change bickering. It's not like either side would actually DO anything about it, but it's great we talked about it.
Too bad we can't put the planet on some psychiatrist's couch, maybe then we could solve all the problems. Because that's all we do about them. Talk.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I was at a RAID/storage conference in the early 90's, and Gates was there. It was an open bar, and he was drinking a lot of wine. He spilled wine on his jacket and was acting completely unruly and making all kinds of off-color jokes and basically acting like an idiot.
Global warming(and cooling) have been going on for millions if not billions of years. So what's all the hubub bub.
Refugee?
While reading slashdot I typically eat a microwave pizza every hour for 15 hours a day. I've been constipated the last few weeks because I'm cutting down on 5 litres of coke I drink each day, so when I took a dump this morning the sea level in my toilet rose 5cm. Regardless of global warming from the copious amounts of methane I release, I am certain I can produce enough bricks for dykes to save America from disaster.
Stop posting Google links for these damn articles.
If you can't post to the *original* article, then don't post at all!
As even a cursory Wikipedia reading will note, ARCTIC ice is DECREASING in extent at a faster rate than ANTARCTIC is INCREASING.
In other words, Antarctic ice is growing X units per year, but Arctic ice is SHRINKING more than X units per year.
The net result is that the Earth's ice cover is shrinking.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_sea_ice#/media/File:Antarctic_Grows.jpg
Those who believe anthropogenic climate change is a myth thrive on the confusion caused by nuance like this. But the Earth's climate is not a simple system. It has nuance. Ice may be shrinking overall, and yet still growing in some places.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
Climate has never not been changing. It's been warmer. It's been colder. Can't we stop the silliness of citing granular little datapoints gathered over a nanosecond of geologic-time and randomly attaching causality to suit our agenda? With or without humans, the climate would have changed (and will continue to change) -- and if history is any guide, change radically.
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/...
You can connect at the bottom of the page as of right now the link in the article above is not working for me.
I am not a glaciologist but i read the article and am a bit puzzled by the findings related to snowfall and "thickness". It looks as if only satelite data was used, so why can't Antarctica actually be losing massive amounts of ice and the resulting removal of mass cause uplifting of the underlying rock? Removal of large amounts of mass over wide areas tend to have that effect and I was not able to find reference in the references. ICESat only uses laser range finding.
http://icesat.gsfc.nasa.gov/icesat/glas.php
Seems the facts have denied the studies.
The idea that anyone can know that the seas are rising by .23 millimeters per year is absurd. Tides, regional gravity variations, subsiding land, etc. It's a ridiculous notion and a twisted exercise in meaningless statistics.
Read the article quick before it gets taken down.
So WHY have they gone on for millions if not billions of years? These things don't just decide to start. They have a physical reason to occur.
So what is the physical reason to occur, and what do those physical reasons for the climate say about what we're doing with pumping out CO2 into the atmosphere?
But haven't they heard???? Climate Change is PROVEN! It's 100% unanimous by all scientists EVER. Anyone who questions it is stupid and ignorant. WHY AREN'T THEY LISTENING?
See? F*** you, Climate Change frauds.
I wish other (arguably more pressing) environmental concerns could get half as much attention as climate change. The shocking level of plastic pollution in our oceans for example. Why can't we have a big international panels on that? Could it be because fixing that would require actual work, rather than just dreaming up more ways to tax and control the population.
My question is what temperature is the Earth supposed to be? I mean is it supposed to be a hothouse with tropical foliage everywhere as it once was or is it supposed to be a ball of ice like it once was? I'd think somewhere in between would be good but really all I hear is that it's getting hot but no real idea of what temperature it should be.
Check the U of I Cryosphere site for the latest north pole and south pole ice, and the sum for total global ice..
The global total is basically flat since 1979
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg
I was told several years ago that, paraphrasing, any temperature is good and change in either direction is only bad when it is too rapid to adapt.
Did you have sex with him?
My question is what temperature is the Earth supposed to be?
There is no temperature that it is supposed to be.
It is probably in our best interests that the climates we live in are compatible with us.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Looks like somebody's going to have a hard time getting grant money next year...
Per TFA's conclusion: If dynamic thinning continues to increase at the same rate of 4 [gigatons/year] with no offset from further increases in snowfall, the positive balance of the [Antarctic ice sheet] will decrease from the recent 82 [gigatons] to zero in ~20 years. However, compensating increases in snowfall with climate warming may also be expected.
Apparently, warming has added mass via more snow, and the paper doesn't appear to address possible bedrock rebound from thinning ice. At some point, temperature will likely increase to the point where added snowfall can't keep up with the ice outflow. At the moment, the changing dynamic of the climate seems to be causing counterintuitive local changes, like added snowfall in the eastern US and eastern Antarctica, due to added water vapor in the air.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Ok, this is a meta post.
Can you mods modding down posts that disagree with your settled worldviews as "troll" fucking stop it? Both sides. kthxbie
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Global warming = more ice.
Higher taxes = more prosperity.
Freedom = slavery.
War = peace.
Etc.
See subject: It's so that you can't trust anything anymore. One person says 1 thing, another contradicts it, all for their own gain for funding monies. Academics are being caught left and right pulling this shit too. Guess once a bad set of morals happens and those pulling it aren't chastised for it, everyone starts doing it.
* :(
(The world is getting nuttier than it's ever been - I say this with 1/2 a century of time here... & yes, there's always been this element, but not like nowadays!)
APK
P.S.=> I just "keep on, keeping on" personally - & I gave up on even listening @ this point... one day some fool says "the world will end due to asteroid impact" well, hasn't happened yet (there's yet another example I've seen also & my history prof. in college always told us "Beware of little laws passing that become bigger ones and they sell you fear to make it happen so their own personal agendas are reached thru conmen games" - it's what I see now like mad)... apk
You seem to be obsessed with fucking. I didn't read your post, but scanned it, and that word kept appearing.
See subject: King Billy's only human after all (the "King Billy" stuff I always use is out of respect, NOT ridicule) - & yes, I respect Bill Gates AND like him for what he's done AND how he goes about it. Especially during the "antitrust" (or whatever) trials they put MS through...
There in court/trials, the man pulled a "Howard Hughes" (as in Leonard DiCaprio's rendering of him from "The Aviator") & everyone I was watching this with was like "Man, that man IS intelligent!" when he said "Why am I here? I freely welcome my competitors to make the better mousetrap..."
(When pretty much any inferior competition he had was taking pot shots @ him left & right, crying "monopoly" (which yes, forced MS to save Apple - which I read only days ago that Mr. Ballmer said it was the craziest thing for them to do, since look @ apple now doing great))...
* King Billy outfoxes the foxes - good enough for me.
APK
P.S.=> Anybody that does that "has me @ hello"... apk
If you use Windows, he's had sex with you.
Clearly, the oil companies are freezing water at the poles in order to increase plant growth. It's a conspiracy to make plants grow faster. Also, I heard that oil executives are buying homes a few feet higher inland so that in a couple centuries, when the water has risen half a foot, they will have a nice beach.
The map of antarctic ice-thickness changes shows virtually the entire continent in red to yellow (thickening ice) and two tiny areas in blue-to-green (thinning ice.) Thinning ice accounts for something like one percent of the continent, and 99% of the published discussion. For decades, most peer-reviewed articles on WAIS thinning have studiously avoided any mention of the rest of the continent. The same is true for Greenland, where for decades most of the published literature has focused on the margins and pretended the interior does not exist.
Counterexamples exist, of course, but I noticed these omissions as early as the mid-eighties.
Even if you attribute the publication bias to poor data, it would have been more honest to mention that the areas under study accounted for only a tiny percentage of the land area and ice volume.
We've been in an ice age for 3 million years were ice has covered much of the earth. There are glacial periods where ice extends furthur to the equator (what most people think is an ice age) and there are interglacial periods. We are currently in an interglacial period. During this ice age, the earth hos more often than not ben in glacial periods. The last interglacial period lasted only 12 thousand years. We are currently getting relatively close to that time frame.
Basically "what temperature the Earth is supposed to be" is many degrees colder than this over the past 3 million years.
I'll couch my dispute in the form of a net. Gravity tries to take me out; I win. Concrete is un-splattered.
Or in other words, what nature hath wrought, technology may provide an answer for.
In the case of climate change, such answers are all around us: solar power, nuclear power, electric vehicles, carbon sequestration technologies, etc.
Try not to panic. It is both unseemly and uncalled for. We solve problems as they come to face us; that's our nature. We'll solve whatever problems climate change may present us with as well.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
According to this skepticalscience.com:
> Sea ice and land ice are two separate phenomena. Antarctica is losing land ice at an accelerating rate. Sea ice around Antarctica is increasing. The reasons for sea ice increasing in a warming Southern Ocean are complex
http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm
Or read the book.
Corporations hire PR firms that hire professional deniers to "muddy the waters"
The tobacco industry did this for decades, pushing the message that the negative effects of smoking were disputed, controversial, etc.
As it turns out, the same scientists who denied smoking dangers also denied global warming. Look up "Frederick Seitz."
Yes, it can be hard to know. That is because certain corporations spend millions making it hard to know.
[looks at your user ID] You're not new here... are you fantasizing? That's the only thing I can imagine that would account for your post. Moderation here is broken, has been broken, and likely will continue to be broken. It is incredibly poorly designed, if "designed" is even the appropriate word. There is zero accountability, zero recovery of incorrectly modded posts, and zero incentive to "do it right." Human nature at large being what it is (venal and small-minded), the results are always like this. "I disagree" and "I agree" account for almost all moderation on /. just as they always have.
I suggest a glass of warm milk and a cuddle with a nice soft pillow. Or breasts. Breasts do it for me every time. Slashwhat? Postwho? Eh? Work work work work...
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
See subject: How the game is played. You have to get around it somehow - BUILDING A BETTER MOUSETRAP IS SAID WAY & the best way - you can't pull it off? You die...
(Unfortunately mgt. under pressure does "downsizings" to do it - which is like pulling the oil out of your engines - she'll run, for a while @ least, till some bearing burns out etc. since you stress existing workers out in more work + fear for their jobs & the stress that comes with it - & it certainly doesn't HELP economies which are designed in mind with money MOVING from plenty of sources - this gets the shaft in capital underutilization since the 1% is far smaller than the "peons" they feel we are - the banks do the rest (we pay for it))...
* I feel for you, I do (even if/when this is only 'theoretical') - however, I have NO RESPECT PERSONALLY for gangs attacking a single person (like in the street, as imo it's what WORMS DO - fleas attempting to take out a lion, ants attacking a mastodon).
APK
P.S.=> There's always a way - however, sometimes that way (like a lot nowadays) costs in the LONG haul (such as outsourcing/offshoring jobs to be penny-wise & pound foolish in the short-term - which boards of directors + mgt. "bonuses" don't help (sometimes you have to GIVE to GET), & neither do the UNREALISTIC DREAMS & EXPECTATIONS of stockholders (buying their bullshit common-stock vs. preferred level type) since they were told "We have this 'Mountain of GOLD' for you, & YOU TOO can be Bill Gates in minutes!"... apk
Well, then global warming should be good news, since for the past several million years, we have been living in an ice age.
And the only reason we are even doing as well as we are is because we are living during a temporary warm period during this ice age; without anthropogenic climate change, our climate would return to having much of the US and Europe covered in thick ice sheets.
Listen dick cheese. It's a simple question that even a simple mind like yours should be able to digest. The idea is that the earth has had climate change since there has been an earth. The temps go up and down and who is to say what is normal. We know what we like and that's about it. Yes, the climate is warming. No shit, sherlock, I can read a thermometer. Ice is melting and you know what, things change. One day one of those super volcanoes we read about is gonna blow and then things will get ugly. I'm all for some common sense ideas about how to keep from running the carbon footprint over the edge but this incessant carping about climate change is beyond that. Instead of common sense we get fucking shit-for-brains asswipes such as yourself foaming at the mouth.
He fucked all night and now his ass is sore and bleeding.
That's one theory. All the research I've done makes it seem like maybe the earth has no one stage, it's up and down. I kind of like it like it is now but I'm used to that.
Global warming(and cooling) have been going on for millions if not billions of years. So what's all the hubub bub.
People have died since there are people. Why should we try to solve this particular murder?
Stephan
My question is what temperature is the Earth supposed to be? I mean is it supposed to be a hothouse with tropical foliage everywhere as it once was or is it supposed to be a ball of ice like it once was? I'd think somewhere in between would be good but really all I hear is that it's getting hot but no real idea of what temperature it should be.
Well, the temperature that maximizes biodiversity across the planet.
Could you expand on why "biodiversity" ought to be the goal? If I had to pick something, I'd have picked "comfort of humans" or, perhaps, the humans' longevity or something like that.
Why do you pick "biodiversity"?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
vs.
War = Freedom
Slavery = Peace
Etc. = Higher Taxes
Global Warming = More Prosperity
from the article
antartica gets about 2,000 Gt per year in ice
the net change is about 100 Gt per year
that means a loss of about 1,900 Gt per year
so, we are looking at the small difference between two large flows
i suspect we will be debating this for a while
Protip: measuring things over the entire continent of antarctica isn't as easy as it sounds
If you bet that climate change is not occuring, the results of being wrong could be bad for your children, eg we have to evacuate bangaldesh
if you bet that climate change is occuring, teh results of being wrong are...minimal
place your money
I notice the parent was moderated "flamebait". Whoosh!
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
The basic message is "we should leave the planet better off than we found it". Which is a good and admirable thing.
Hear hear!
The big problem is that nobody has a clear, and widely agreed-upon idea about what to do about it.
Even if the planet is warming, there are a number of steps between that and "We must stop it even if it takes us back to the stone age and kills off most of the population!" Most of the attention is on "Where's the temperature going?". That leaves out a number of others, starting with "Is it disastrous, bad, indifferent, good, or wonderful?"
And some of the options being put forth are fairly shady, dangerous, or just flat-out unacceptable. Sometimes two or three of those at once. [...] The whole "carbon credit" trading scheme has already proven totally shady, since it's a carte blanche license to pollute.
Provided you shovel a bunch of money into the carbon credit market, a substantial portion of which - to the tune of aggregate billions - went to the founders and operators of the market - notably, the same Al Gore who was pushing so hard to spread the idea that the science was "settled" and that ecogeddon was almost upon us unless the carbon content of the atmosphere was immediately reduced to pre-industrial levels, regardless of cost in money, freedom, and lives.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
I, most certainly, did not vote for Obama, who got just barely more than 50% of the vote and quickly fell below that in approval ratings. Congress' ratings are even worse.
At any point in time about half the country disagrees with the sitting President and the Legislature. We accept them as a necessary evil — "evil" being the keyword — hence the "othering".
We hire the government to do the things, that nobody else can do or be allowed to do: protect us from violence within and without and enforce the contracts. They should not be allowed to do anything else: not issue loans, not treat the sick, not feed the hungry nor shelter the homeless, none of that — and certainly not sell electricity. All of that was a mission creep, which ought to stop.
I am from the government and I am here to help.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Also, thickening of the ice doesn't slow global warming. Only growing ice extent can do that, by reducing albedo.
Which brings up the question of whether urban heat islands could be mitigated somewhat by switching from black asphalt and tar surfaces to painting the streets and roofs white?
Or, better yet, paint it with something like the new nanotech pigment that reflects (rather than absorbing and/or down-shifting) 97% of the incident light and only strongly couples to the "infrared window" where the atmosphere is transparent, "seeing" only the sun and the near-absolite-zero sky, not the infrafred from the greenhouse gasses and clouds. This results in a surface that, in full sunlight, is about 9 degrees F cooler that the surrounding air (and produce still more cooling when the sun is down).
Nine degrees F is about how much heating they're touting as a disaster, isn't it? Maybe we should paint whole continents. B-)
(Meanwhile, reducing the amount of energy used for air conditioning by deploying trick paint could cut a lot of fossil fuel use without degrading quality of life.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Al Gore, of all people, undercut this particular aspect of his own scare-mongering, when he bought an ocean-front villa for himself. A real nice one too, I hear...
But then, the "recovering politician" was never much about practicing, what he preaches.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
When arctic ice melts, it doesn't lead to sea level rise, so as far as sea level rise is concerned.
Except for the drop-in-the-bucket part of it on land rather than in the Arcitc Ocean.
That's mostly Greenland and Iceland (which are really pretty small, though their position near the pole makes them look gigantic in Mercator projection maps.)
I hear there is joy in Iceland over their current warming trend. Though the recent retreat of their glaciers and improvement of their growing conditions is still far from that of the Medieval Optimum, they are once again able to grow some of the crops that were common there at the time.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
On the other hand, the sea rise from the current warming trend will leave much of the coastline (where many people live) uninhabitable.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
You're either an idiot, or lying; I would suggest agreeing to the later, because the former would be humiliating.
Icelands in in the middle of the gulf stream. ;)
In comparision with the "rest of" Europe it never was really cold there
they are once again able to grow some of the crops that were common there at the time. ;)
That is nonsense. They never stopped growing them. You are mixing up Icelands with the south of Greenland
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Well for a majority of the Cenozic era (the age of mammals) there have been no glaciers or polar ice caps.
The atmosphere traps some heat. Water vapor, C02, and CH4 are the most important traps in that order.
The Sun is about 15% brighter than when the Earth first formed. The the atmosphere was import for the evident liquid water the first couple billion years. It may have been at least half CO2 then.
The internet archive, archive.org, could not archive that page. Weird.
He freely admitted it here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & you want to read what he wrote.
* Additionally: Yes, you're correct (HBGary + others were caught using "professional trolls" too as another "proof thereof" - & the NICE PART about these less honorable than street whores types doing it for them is they SHOW YOU that you are making headway - reactions from primitive minds show you this, projecting it).
NOW, & perhaps above ALL else - they're not very intelligent (but then again, nobody OWNS a piece of it anymore, certainly not controlling interests (perhaps save good companies like Ford who have their NAME & history on it, creating imo @ least, the wonderful Mustang 4.6-5.0 Liter motor that even the Koenigsegg (sp?) even utilized initially since it was SO well done - that "better mousetrap", & NOTHING defeats that - nothing)).
APK
P.S.=> I've personally caught 2-3 more also red-handed since they work for advertiser firms etc. & it makes me laugh, like I do in that link above... why?
Well - They're helping me realize 1 thing - They're NOT too smart & their favorite color MUST BE TRANSPARENT - as they're so easy to see thru & catch in the act, if only eventually (since they think people are stupid - they're not. They're ignorant until things start adversely affecting them, & then they get 'smart' - life keeps you hopping all the time, but put enough pressure on ANYONE? They smarten up, fast - learning to deal with it, effectively...) - you seem to be aware of this madness & lunacy too - take comfort in the fact we ALL do & deal accordingly when the time is right & circumstances both permit AND demand it...
... apk
Look up in to the sky. See the big shiny thing. ~2 x 10^24 gigatons of slightly variable plasma fusion reactor. Incidental energy transport modulated by various astrophysical, terrestial and geologic factors.
By 2020, people will curse you when they are freeing their arses off. Partly colder weather with the solar/sunspot declines, and partly poverty.
Resolve the climate change debate once and for all! Cry a river and see if it freezes ;)
Give it a break. This is what 'settled science' means. Karl Popper, called the same concept "The republic of Science", it's a key concept in the philosophy of Science, it is the difference between "A scientist says" and "Science says", why do so many people of one political colour have a problem with that?
As for TFA, there is nothing in it that says or implies "they've been measuring it all wrong", they are using all the measurements they have. NASA found something interesting in the data, something that doesn't fit previously extrapolated assumptions that were made because the data did not exist, they make it perfectly clear it does not change previous findings. The ocean is still rising, this observation means they cannot account for a very small portion of the observed rise.
By definition all scientific knowledge is imperfect but the mere existence of the modern world is very strong evidence that imperfect knowledge is preferable to ignorant speculation. So if being 'wrong' embarsses you, don't chose a STEM career.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
"I am not Bil Gates" ~Bill Gates.
FTFY.
He freely admitted it here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & you want to read what he wrote HERE specifically http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
(Apparently, he doesn't want it scene having downmodded it TWICE here -> http://science.slashdot.org/co... + here also -> http://science.slashdot.org/co... )
* Additionally: Yes, you're correct (HBGary + others were caught using "professional trolls" too as another "proof thereof" - & the NICE PART about these less honorable than street whores types doing it for them is they SHOW YOU that you are making headway - reactions from primitive minds show you this, projecting it).
NOW, & perhaps above ALL else - they're not very intelligent (but then again, nobody OWNS a piece of it anymore, certainly not controlling interests (perhaps save good companies like Ford who have their NAME & history on it, creating imo @ least, the wonderful Mustang 4.6-5.0 Liter motor that even the Koenigsegg (sp?) even utilized initially since it was SO well done - that "better mousetrap", & NOTHING defeats that - nothing)).
APK
P.S.=> I've personally caught 2-3 more also red-handed since they work for advertiser firms etc. & it makes me laugh, like I do in that link above... why?
Well - They're helping me realize 1 thing - They're NOT too smart & their favorite color MUST BE TRANSPARENT - as they're so easy to see thru & catch in the act, if only eventually (since they think people are stupid - they're not. They're ignorant until things start adversely affecting them, & then they get 'smart' - life keeps you hopping all the time, but put enough pressure on ANYONE? They smarten up, fast - learning to deal with it, effectively...) - you seem to be aware of this madness & lunacy too - take comfort in the fact we ALL do & deal accordingly when the time is right & circumstances both permit AND demand it...
... apk
The ocean current circles antarctica. If freshwater ice melts, it sticks around. Freshwater freezes at a higher temp than saltwater. SO it takes less cold to make ice from the surrounding water. But if there is extra freshwater around antarctica, where did it come from? Melting ice.
Arctic ocean mixes into Altlantic, so is saltier. It won't freeze back as fast as waters down south.
A TED talk put it perfectly. There are 4 outa 500 glaciers in the world getting bigger. But there are 495 outa 500 getting smaller.
It is what it is. Nov1 and my locale hasn't had a freeze yet. We usually have a snowstorm by now.
All 'climate' including 'antartic ice' now controlled by Jew Chemtrails weather weapons, we are being sprayed with nano chip CHEMTRAILS. All 'climate change' spew is distraction put out by the massive JEW cabal to distract from their chemtrails assault. So called 'government' is a jew fraud and has been from the start. After real men fought and died to get rid of the scum jew british part of the jew tribe bogus 'taxation', idiots here allowed the scum jews like 'washington' and the rest of the fraud 'founders' to made up their bogus 'constitution' fraud to set up fraud 'government' to 'tax' dupes and get themselves trillions in weapons, from the fraud 'govt' fraud 'federal reserve', every fraud 'war', the scum 'social' schemes, all of it a setup to get a mass of weapons to slaughter other races for jew world takeover. Now we're being SPRAYED by the mass murdering jew tribe.
Most 'whites' in fraud 'government', liar 'media' liar 'scientists' 'dokters' fraud 'lawyers' 'judges' are Not nordic whites they are 'white' skin ashkenazi JEW race. So-called 'scientists' and 'media' spew 'climate change' are Lying JEWS and co-cons. They fake 'debate' to dumb down their scum weapons system, the assault on us by weather and on us physically, the jew CHEMTRAILS and TOWERS everywhere control and force 'climate, drought, storms, floods, lightning, and earthquake. The jew fraud 'government' spraying us with nano chips designed so when you breathe the nano chips, nano sythetic fungus and other nano particles they self assemble into 'morgellons' fiber optics inside of you, but don't form inside of the scum ashkenazi jews, they are race, a separate genetic group. The nano chip fiber optics so the jews control everyone else by 'wireless' 'Ipv6 internet of things', 'smart grid', scum 'wireless' are a mass weapon system, You are the kill and slavery target. The fibers in you now, done and continue to form with every breath you take. So called 'morgellons' was proven in study, they had to link it to lyme so there was something known, but that is only a tiny fraction part of the makeup. The so called 'lyme' fraction was also made in a lab. On cause, they could not say it's coming from our being sprayed or it would not have been published. The jews control all 'science' publications. There will be no more studies. If you're a drooling idiot who sits on your ass 'demanding' more 'proof' you deserve to be slaughtered and will be slaughtered. You are not owed anything. Your scum ignorance of the mass fraud 'govt', 'wars', 'bailouts' the mass scum immigration, you sit on your ass trained to swallow jew bullshit 'served' to you every day while you never bothered to SEE what's in your FACE. For your ignorance YOU are now being SPRAYED for slavery and extermination by the massive scum jew tribe.
Virtually everything on the net is put out by them including the 'chemtrail' sites, 'jew truther' sites, all of it, thousands of bs sites to 'lead the opposition' so whatever 'level' of duped you still are, whatever is left you don't know they work to divert, distract, subvert. Don't expect the web to 'save' you. It's always been on you to grow up and make your own tribes in REAL life. Get Off the web, give info to real people, handing out paper notes. Stop being a chicken shit afraid to meet real people in your own area. You cannot make a tribe 'online' to fight them. Here is a note to copy and hand out -
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We are being sprayed, archive.org/details/DontTalkAboutTheWeather_451 - see first 20 mins. The haze in the air is nano chips, other content- www.willthomasonline.net/Nano_Chemtrails.html - older page, semi dumb down, the spraying is mass and worldwide, the contents far more than described. The nano chips are for 'wireless' brain rape and control by 'smart grid' 'wireless' 'ipv6' 'internet of things'. You are already more than 'chipped'. The bogus 'towers' everywhere part of chemtrails weapons also causing droughts, storms and other assaults. They are Not 'cell' towers, all cell is satelite. They made bio weapons, newworldw
- Also, jew trolls will probably jump on to distract from my post above. 'tin foil hat', 'anti semite' 'racist' whatever other bs to distract. Get it straight 90% of all shit comments you see on the web are jews or computer generated bs posts. It's a mass distraction trap to keep you from getting off your ass to stop them before they kill you. Keep sitting, you deserve what you get. The info is for those enraged by the assaults on us and rather fight instead of die, who know freedom is nature anarchy and tribes, Not scum jew 'government' Not forced scum jew 'communist' shit, it's bashing down scum jew fraud 'government' 'states', scum jews and all parasite and immigrant parasite scum. Don't focus 'everywhere' focus where You Are. Make your own tribes. If there were enough tribes you could shut down the scum jew 'airports' THAT is where the mass of immigrants are swarming in. The fraud jews and co-frauds fake yammer 'close the borders' for two decades while idiots still buy their shit to distract from the AIRPORTS and their bullshit 'legal' immigration' attack is where the scum jew 'govt' is flooding them. The most important is to inform others using notes, now. Do it every day. For a couple of hours you could also hold up a sign by the road. For immigration hold up a sign by the road that says 'Stop ALL immigration NOW' and 'thezog.info'. But as or even more dire is our being sprayed assaulted with their scum nano chip chemtrails, hold up a sign, short simple, 'chemtrail virus' or 'nano chip chemtrails' and 'thezog.info' - isn't as much info but people will put it together, many know something's wrong but fail to see it's the massive scum JEW tribe behind it all. You reach larger numbers using a road sign, those who don't know it's the jews will at least get the core. By far using notes is better, you reach a medium number of people if you make the effort and with the note in the post above they would have the dire information so there is no dumbing down the danger, no denying the facts. Most of the masses are willful idiots, by giving out notes, those who want to fight to live have information on who is behind our destruction and can inform by passing on the information, and for those who are lazy scum idiots once you hand them info you take away their scum denial. Anyone who denies or refuses to give others info and do their part are the enemy the same as the scum jew 'govt' 'media'
'corporations', your scum jew 'neighbor who does the 'holo' snivel, anyone in the tribe and anyone who denies or refuses to do anything is the enemy. Keep going until you find others like yourself.
Go where there are crowds, two people can hand out a hundred notes in an hour, the note in post above written so others pass it on, otherwise idiots decide because you hand them a note that 'someone else' is 'handling it'. That's why the massive scum jew tribe all over 'media', all 'corporations' all the fake 'opposition' groups do their fake 'argue' bs so scum dupes think because someone is bitching on the radio they don't have to do anything. Idiots to stupid to see that two hundred years of bogus 'founders' lies and jew yammer bullshit 'media' never does anything because That's what it's for, to distract and divert idiots, tell idiots 'write to cognress' 'join our group', 'donate' all bs to subvert idiots now the mass jew tribe and their scum co-frauds in 'govt' are assaulting us, spraying you, flooding in more parasites, getting ready for the big cull. Being able to line this out took years and work and experience and sacrifice including by others. There is no 'easy way' out, your scum breeders and their breeders ignored it all, now it's all on you or you die. I handed you the tools to get going. Life is only for those who fight and conquer, the scum jews have nearly conquered you, they chipped you they're going to kill you and the chips enslave the rest. Get off your ass, take back the power water companies and farms they stole, bash away scum fraud 'government' and states' and every smiley fraud every fake 'tough' f
mocking 'plot' bs. The mass jew tribe is the 'conspiracy'. It's not just 'oil companies' or 'corporations' or any of other jew distraction bs. There is nothing funny about the destruction being done to us by the jew tribe and their mass of weapons, already killed over a billion people thanks to ameriscum idiots ignoring and paying 'tax' so jews can kill everyone else and take the world for themselves.
- more in - jew weather weapons - post above, click load all comments, also slide bar over so all show
Everything I said is true, as a minute with Google shows you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The current ice age, the one we are in, is called the "Quarternary Glaciation" or "Pleistocene Glaciation":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The last "glacial period" (which is colloquially referred to as an "ice age", although that is not scientifically accurate), ended about 22000 years ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
We are currently in an interglacial period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It's unclear how much longer that would last without anthropogenic climate change; we might have started into the next glacial period already, or we may be skipping one this time. Either way, a glacial period is bad news, far worse than global warming.
At about 3mm / year, we're looking at a foot per century, or a meter per millennium. That's easy to adapt to. Even several times that rate of sea level rise is something we'd barely notice.
Furthermore, taking current topographical maps and combining them with sea level rise data is bullshit anyway; most coasts are sedimentary, not rocky.
Greenland holds fairly significant amounts of ice. The reason it's not a big concern is because, unlike sea ice, it would take a long time to melt, no matter what happens with climate change.
Well, then global warming should be good news,
And for some, after adjustment, it will be good news. For others? a catastrophe. This is the part that so many do not get. Canada so far has had an extension of the term between killing frosts, so the frost free season is lengthening. - also the Western US. Here is some interesting US data.
http://nca2014.globalchange.go....
Then again, some places might not be so fortunate. Some may even become colder. As the Greenland ice melts, the Weather in England might get a little frosty. This might happen if the gulf stream gets interrupted by the cold fresh water influx from Greenland.
At present in Ireland, they grow cabbage palm at the same latitude as Newfoundland - the warming effects of the gulf stream are so dominant, all may go away.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/... And some areas that are now verdant, may become arid. All sort of the luck of the draw.
I always like to put discussions in the manner in which others can relate. Strategically, is it wise to gamble that the US will always be blessed by climate? If large portions of the country turn into desert - is that a good formula for continued role as the world's superpower.
And that petrofuel. Is it patriotic and smart burning huge amounts of that portable energy dense fuel in gas guzzlers that we may some day need for our jet fighters?
Not the most glamorous web page, but interesting: http://vanrcook.tripod.com/Ger... Oddly enough, many people who consider themselves more patriotic, and love their country more than others, are happy to burn as much fossil fuel and use as much of the energy dense petrofuel, that they may have a leading role in our diminished power. All by foolishly believing people who are not at all patriotic, but have money as the central theme of their lives, but are smart enough to enlist them.
Me? I consider it my patriotic duty to enable the warfighters the best chance of fulfilling their missions.
So I'm going to drive, but I'm also going to conserve. I'm also going to attempt to have my country in good shape as long as possible.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
On the other hand, the sea rise from the current warming trend will leave much of the coastline (where many people live) uninhabitable.
Very expensive real estate owned by very wealthy people.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
There is a faction that points out that warmer temperatures mean higher crop yeilds, more living space at higher latitudes, and fewer deaths via freezing. The human body operates better in warmer temps, and is better able to handle drought than ice.
For the past several million years, the earth has undergone regular glacial cycles, first every 40000 years, then every 100000 years. There have been dozens of these. That's not controversial or "a theory", it's something you can read off ice cores.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
At about 3mm / year, we're looking at a foot per century, or a meter per millennium. That's easy to adapt to..
Umm, no. Your simple version of sea level rise is really good, as long as you don't take into account just how low much of the coastline is. That and tides. That and storms. That and the fact that rise and sometimes fall are not always the same everywhere - in some areas, land is rising as it rebounds from the last ice age. So new land is being created at the shoreline.
Even so the rise is not consistent per year. Hell, in 2010, the ocean levels dropped due to a combination of conditions:
http://www.scientificamerican....
Furthermore, taking current topographical maps and combining them with sea level rise data is bullshit anyway; most coasts are sedimentary, not rocky.
While I don't have the data on most coasts, that would be much worse than a rocky coast. As inevitable storms especially when combined with king tides, low barometric pressure and wind, can take that small yearly difference, and amplify the bejabbers out of it.
What's the odds of that happening? Ask the peeps in New Jersey and New York City about Hurricane Sandy.
http://blogs.wsj.com/metropoli...
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Large portions of the US are already desert. So far, climate change has led to an overall increase in precipitation in the US. Overall, long term, climate change will probably not lead to significant net changes for the US; if it does, it will be towards less desert.
That's always the case with climate. It is naive to think that eliminating human carbon emissions will cause the climate to stabilize. Generally, pushing the climate in the direction of warmer temperatures is better overall.
A meter of sea level rise is a meter of sea level rise, no more and no less. Tides don't change that. In fact, places like the Netherlands do fine with much of their country below sea level.
No, actually, it is not.
Lrrr: We will raise your planet's temperature by one million degrees a day, for five days, unless we see McNeal at 9pm tomorrow - 8 central!
Al Gore told us that the polar ice caps would be melted by 2014.
We all know that politician's don't lie....
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
"My question is what temperature is the Earth supposed to be? "
It varies. We don't live in a static world; we live in a dynamic one.
Dinosaurs once roamed the earth. Then they were killed off by an ice age. Then it warmed up again, leading us to the modern age.
Logic would dictate that the earth will get cooler and have another ice age, and then warm up again.
Cycles of nature.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
According to this skepticalscience.com:
> Sea ice and land ice are two separate phenomena. Antarctica is losing land ice at an accelerating rate. Sea ice around Antarctica is increasing. The reasons for sea ice increasing in a warming Southern Ocean are complex
http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice.htm
You are right, SkepticalScience lists "Antarctica is gaining Ice" as number ten on their list of top Climate Myths. Either the crew at NASA are now foul mouthed deniers, or the blogger activists at SkepticalScience aren't as fair handed and open minded as they boast...
He fucked all night and now his hand is sore and bleeding.
FTFY
Guess you weren't paying any attention to the consequences of warming / cooling. Or that this natural process is sometimes due to the activities of one or more species causing the climate to change. Like when the cyano-bacteria caused the atmosphere to be unbreathable for a billion years. It's just natural. (And sometimes lethal).
Only boring people are ever bored.
You mad or something? Or just have the maturity of a 14 year old?
The issue isn't what temperatures on the Earth are supposed to be. The issue is how fast the temperature is changing. Take the temperature increases that have happened over the last 100 years and are expected over the next 100 years (with BAU) and spread them out over several thousand years and they aren't that big a deal. The problem is that the temperature change is happening at a rate that outpaces the ability of natural systems to adapt.
Since the PDO went negative around 2001-3 and the AMO has peaked and is on its way down and the sun in at a low point not seen in centuries can I ask what you expected? That the all powerful CO2 trace gas would somehow overpower all the natural forces? Ha, good one.
A question for everyone who thinks that CO2 controls the climate. How long with rising CO2 and flat or falling temperatures before you admit your theory is wrong? 20 years? 30? Never?
Both of the satellite datasets (RSS, UAH) show no warming for 18+ years. In that time CO2 has risen 10%.
Why do I use the 2 satellite measurements?
First they have the greatest coverage. RSS goes from 82.5N to 82.5 S and UAH, 85N to 85S.
Second they are the least adjusted. Unlike NOAA which makes completely unjustified adjustments by raising good data (ARGO bouy temps) to match what they themselves admit is bad, corrupted data (ship engine intake temps).
Lastly they are run by 2 scientists with good credentials (Dr Mears & Dr Spencer respectively) and despite looking at what is almost the same data come to different conclusions. Dr Mears thinks CO2 does control the climate and Dr Spencer does not. I like that. Not only does it keep them honest it makes me think and read both sides to see why they are so different in their conclusions despite almost identical data. So far I side with the position of Dr Spencer.
So after this nice el-nino (2015-16 winter) we will in likely get a la-nina which will be very cold. There will be stagnating temperatures at best and severe cold at worst. Sorry to all the "CO2 fanboys (and fangirls) out there but CO2 does not control the climate and our paltry addition to the levels in our atmosphere is a good thing.
"...Oops they caught us in another out and out lie, so we have to pretend that was never what we meant. We will return to our regularly scheduled lying as soon as practical."
And notice once again another political arm of the UN, the IPCC, once again treated as if they were really "scientists" and not just socialist activists with retreaded 'community organizing' degrees trying to use the global warming agenda to torpedo capitalism...
You do realize that science isn't a matter of making pronouncements and engraving them into stone, right? This is a new study with new information. It's unexpected, but that's what happens in science every now and then.
Up until now, the best guess was that Antarctic ice was diminishing, and this study challenges that.
The myth listing was to address the claims that Antarctic sea ice is extensive, so the Antarctic is icing up. That is bad reasoning, even if it turns out that the ice is increasing.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You do realize that science isn't a matter of making pronouncements and engraving them into stone, right? This is a new study with new information. It's unexpected, but that's what happens in science every now and then.
Up until now, the best guess was that Antarctic ice was diminishing, and this study challenges that.
The myth listing was to address the claims that Antarctic sea ice is extensive, so the Antarctic is icing up. That is bad reasoning, even if it turns out that the ice is increasing.
Don't tell me that, tell SkepticalScience that. They declare Antarctic ice is increasing as a 'myth'. Your discussion and reasoning that it isn't a disproof of overall warming nor sea level rise is dead on. That is to say that Antarctic ice increase is not a valid argument or reason to reject the overall conclusion from all other evidence, it even fits into existing theory. However a "Myth" is different and SkepticalScience was and is just flat wrong to have called it that. There was always conflicting evidence on what Antarctic sea ice mass was doing, but it was unequivocal that Antarctic sea-ice extent was breaking records repeatedly. This NASA finding isn't coming out of a clear blue sky or something, and to have declared such a notion a "Myth" was and is irresponsible.
You are right, SkepticalScience lists "Antarctica is gaining Ice" as number ten on their list of top Climate Myths. Either the crew at NASA are now foul mouthed deniers, or the blogger activists at SkepticalScience aren't as fair handed and open minded as they boast...
I think the "crew at NASA" were honestly reporting the results they found from some satellites with radar altimeters and laser altimeters. But evidence from the GRACE satellites conflicts with what they report and shows a loss of ice mass from Antarctica. The GRACE satellites measure changes in gravity so they have less issues than a satellite trying to measure the height of the ice surface. Time will undoubtedly resolve the discrepancy.
Seems scary to consider that if, in fact, (we) may be wrong about global warming, i.e. polar ice is not doing what is forecast; then we ought to just plain stop messing with stuff. What's confusing are the conflicting data. How can we voting lay-persons make any decisions when the data are potentially invalid? Man-oh-man! Let's get it together, people. I bust my ass to be sure things are correct! How about ALL the other "qualified" reporting scientists do the same?!
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.