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GNU Hurd 0.7 and GNU Mach 1.6 Released

jones_supa writes: Halloween brought us GNU Hurd 0.7, GNU Mach 1.6, and GNU MIG 1.6. The new Hurd comes with filesystem driver improvements, provides a new rpcscan utility, and the Hurd code has been ported to work with newer versions of GCC and GNU C Library. The Mach microkernel has updates for compiler compatibility, improvements to the lock debugging infrastructure, the kernel now lets non-privileged users write to a small amount of memory, timestamps are now kept relative to boot time, and there are various bugfixes. MIG 1.6 is a small update which improves compatibility with newer dialects of C programming language. Specific details on all of the updates can be found in the full release announcement. jrepin adds some more details: The GNU Hurd 0.7 improves the node cache for the EXT2 file-system code (ext2fs), improves the native fakeroot tool, provides a new rpcscan utility, and fixes a long-standing synchronization issue with the file-system translators and other components. The GNU Mach 1.6 microkernel also has updates for compiler compatibility, improvements to the lock debugging infrastructure, the kernel now lets non-privileged users write to a small amount of memory, timestamps are now kept relative to boot time, and there are various bug-fixes.

31 of 129 comments (clear)

  1. I'll be interested in Hurd when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Systemd is ported

    1. Re:I'll be interested in Hurd when... by darthsilun · · Score: 2

      Lennart Poettering, is that you?

    2. Re:I'll be interested in Hurd when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Lennart Poettering, is that you?

      I don't think so. His post wasn't condescending.

    3. Re:I'll be interested in Hurd when... by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Having dozens of binaries with interdependencies doesn't make it non-monolithic. You can't replace any of those daemons or tools with standalone versions - and if you rewrite one of the systemd components, it is near guaranteed to not work with the next version of systemd, because the api is in constant flux and is never backwards compatible - it's as if the developers (and I use the term loosely) go out of their way to prevent any replacements. It's certainly one of the most monolithic pieces of code I have ever seen.

  2. Hurd.. why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not a troll here.. really.. I followed Hurd in the beginning when i was really interested in the guts of OSs ( even wrote a couple toy ones ), but lost interest when it was moving at sub-snail pace.

    Other than pure research, why is the project still going at all? Is there a practical value to the rest of us? Couldn't the efforts be focused somewhere that has a tangible benefit ?

    1. Re:Hurd.. why? by darthsilun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably for much the same reasons that things like Haiku, OpenIndiana, DragonflyBSD, and etc., exist.
      Who are you to question what is interesting to someone? I don't mean that in a rude way, but honestly, something doesn't have to have millions of users to be someone's pet project or interesting to a small niche audience. After all, how do you think Linux got started?
      This might come as a shock, but the World does not revolve around you!

    2. Re:Hurd.. why? by fche · · Score: 4, Informative

      "This might come as a shock, but the World does not revolve around you!"

      Straw man, no one said it did. You could have simply said "the Hurd guys probably do it for fun." and be done with it. That admission would OTOH arouse the question why this is news for nerds and why it matters.

    3. Re:Hurd.. why? by Ramze · · Score: 2

      It exists in part because the Linux kernel is GPL 2, and will never move to GPL3. The FSF wants its own kernel and doesn't really care if it takes them decades to catch up to Linux.

    4. Re:Hurd.. why? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if it takes them decades to catch up to Linux.

      How can you catch up to something that's moving by going slower than it? I mean I appreciate the extreme challenges of what they are doing, but they can utterly write off any idea of "catching up" at the rate they are going.

    5. Re:Hurd.. why? by EmeraldBot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Probably for much the same reasons that things like Haiku, OpenIndiana, DragonflyBSD, and etc., exist. Who are you to question what is interesting to someone? I don't mean that in a rude way, but honestly, something doesn't have to have millions of users to be someone's pet project or interesting to a small niche audience. After all, how do you think Linux got started? This might come as a shock, but the World does not revolve around you!

      But that's the thing. If you look on the homepage, it states it's a complete replacement for Linux as a kernel - but it fails miserably at that. Its application compatibility is extremely low, driver support is absolutly abysmal, and you can't even install it on its own - it depends on the very thing it's supposed to replace!

      It's such a shame too, because I think there's a big potential for a microkernel system nowadays. It'd be more secure than a mono kernel, much more reliable, much easier to extend, and the only cost is the overhead involved. I don't knock it for being a hobby project - but then GNU should stop pretending like it has some Linux killer on its hands and that it's an official and supported project, because it's become very clear over the last 30+ years (!) that no one wants to work on it. Imagine what it could be if it got some real support, though....

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    6. Re:Hurd.. why? by Daemonik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's news for nerds and matters because nerds like obscure difficult to understand projects that will never be popular with "7|-|3 l0$3rs".

    7. Re:Hurd.. why? by Daemonik · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think it's mainly maintained by Stallman fanatics who still bare death grudges against Linus for stealing their thunder, to be honest.

      They gather at the gnarled roots of his wretched toes, surviving on Jolt cola and Stallman's beard fungus as they furiously translate their eldritch acid dreams into holy code all the while gnashing their teeth at any mention of the dread thief Linus.

      LINUS!!! That thief of dreams, murderer of hope, that foul bandit who ran off with their sacred GNU!! His every fetid caress of the GNU corrupts it with corporate appeasance!! HE MUST BE STOPPED!!

      .... and so they chitter in binary under the caressing shade of Stallman's girth, preparing for the day of their triumph... they need not success, the accolades of the masses, those putrid sheeple!... they have their purity..

    8. Re:Hurd.. why? by abirdman · · Score: 2

      Hurd seems to be an ongoing project to demonstrate that, while interesting in theory, producing a microkernel OS isn't really practical-- it is a software fix to hardware problems that have gone away, and basically no one really needs it. It seems to be "biding its time," waiting for a killer app. Maybe in some new Oracle product? Bwahaha.

      --
      Everything I've ever learned the hard way was based on a statistically invalid sample.
    9. Re:Hurd.. why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      And being the poster, you are incorrect. Just because i dont see why it exists today does not imply in the least that the world revolves around me. Sounds more like you think it revolves around you if others cant ask a simple question from their viewpoint, without being accused of it.

      Check out the mirror sometime, it might surprise you.

    10. Re:Hurd.. why? by darthsilun · · Score: 2

      Straight to ad hominem attack. Way to go. Now I can take you really seriously.

    11. Re:Hurd.. why? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably for much the same reasons that things like Haiku, OpenIndiana, DragonflyBSD, and etc., exist

      Haiku exists because people liked BeOS but BeOS was proprietary and largely abandoned. OpenIndiana exists because the phrase 'Oracle Solaris' just makes people sad. DragonflyBSD exists because Dillon wanted a playground where no one would disagree with him on project direction. But HURD? It had two reasons for existing: to build a microkernel-based OS and to provide a UNIX-like kernel with a license that made it a good fit for the rest of the GNU system. The former objective has been done better by things like Minix 3. The latter by Linux (at least, until GNU moved everything to GPLv3). HURD isn't that interesting as a research OS - the interesting project like L4 HURD died. It's not that interesting as a production OS. The only thing that it really has going for it at this point is the 'GNU' stamp on the top, and that doesn't matter unless you really want to build a complete GNU system (but are happy with X.org not being a GNU project and being more code than the kernel).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Hurd.. why? by rasmusbr · · Score: 4, Funny

      I have been browsing the web with Debian Iceweasel on a Hurd VM in Virtualbox for about two hours now (this is the no-joke part of the post, I even watched a couple of clips on youtube) and I've done a little bit of research on the state of the project. About 80% of Debian packages actually run...

      I have not attempted to compile Wine, but I hear it's been working since 2013...

      OpenGL support is being worked on, of course...

      You know what that means.

      Yes. It will happen. As the prophecy foretells.

      Someone will eventually play Duke Nukem Forever on Hurd.

  3. Re:WHY?? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

    To cause you angst.

  4. Re:WHY?? by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Informative

    It provides an alternative to the traditional monolithic UNIX kernel architecture by replacing it with a multiserver microkernel. Hurd is actually pretty interesting and useful project in my opinion. They just need much more developers if they want to actually go to the moon.

  5. Re:WHY?? by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why does the HURD exist?

    To prove that the clean design of a micro kernel architecture enables the development of more features than can be achieved with an old-fashioned monolithic kernel, and that these features can be delivered on a faster schedule.

  6. Re:Year of the Hurd Desktop? by AchilleTalon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Too late, the desktop doesn't exist anymore.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
  7. Re:Year of the Hurd Desktop? by rochrist · · Score: 2

    Don't worry. At the rate they're going, they'll be up to 1.0 by 2030.

  8. Legit by JBMcB · · Score: 2

    That well may be the full answer, but is licensing minutiae a really good reason to develop an entirely parallel kernel?

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  9. Re:Year of the Hurd Desktop? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 4, Funny

    Don't worry. At the rate they're going, they'll be up to 1.0 by 2030.

    Or maybe 2059? Obligatory XKCD.

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  10. Re:Year of the Hurd Desktop? by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

    Yeah, if you use the pre/installed image it pretty much just works. The window manager is icewm.

    Posted from my Hurd VM.

  11. Re:Year of the Hurd Desktop? by rasmusbr · · Score: 3, Informative

    And here's the link for that: https://www.gnu.org/software/h...

  12. Compiler incompatibility? by sunderland56 · · Score: 2

    From the release notes:

    >> The code has been updated to work with newer versions of the compiler

    So.... GNU broke their compiler to the point that it wouldn't compile existing code; and then their other projects need to change their sources to work? Doesn't that seem horribly backwards?

    Hurd is billed as being written in "assembly and C", but evidently it wasn't any sort of standardized assembly or C, it was some private variant that only GNU understood, and only GNU could compile. Now that GCC doesn't accept their non-standard code, they had to spend months rewriting everything in standardized form..... bizarre. Great use of the limited resources available.

  13. Tried it. Sod it. by bytesex · · Score: 2

    Won't boot in my Virtualbox VM, not as an image, or the installer. Not on IDE, or SATA (got a hint in one of the newsgroups). Never got past the bootloader.

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  14. Wire, not write by Mr+Z · · Score: 5, Informative

    According to the release:

    The kernel now allows non-privileged users to wire a small amount of memory.

    This is not a typo. Wiring memory means pinning it in memory so it cannot be paged out. This is potentially important both for security and real-time applications. On the security front, memory containing keys and passwords should be wired to prevent it going to disk. On the real-time front, if you can fit your working set in wired memory, you can be guaranteed you won't suffer a paging fault while you stay within that working set.

    In Linux / POSIX systems, this is what mlock accomplishes.

    Being able to write to memory, in contrast, isn't particularly noteworthy. You've been able to do that since pretty much the beginning...

  15. Re: Year of the Hurd Desktop? by nullchar · · Score: 2

    Why would you want to work? Mobile devices are designed for consumption, not creation. Once all devices are mobile, will there be any content to consume?

  16. Re: Year of the Hurd Desktop? by KGIII · · Score: 2

    The mobile devices all, pretty much, have cameras today. So, yes... There will still be cat videos. Eventually, they'll run on archaic hardware with software that nobody understands any longer, but they'll still host cat videos just fine until they all break, one by one, and nobody has the tools or the knowledge to repair or rebuild them.

    Hmm... There's a novel in there, somewhere.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."