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Feds Have a Plan For Catastrophic Solar Flares (digitaljournal.com)

New submitter Steve Sacco, referencing the newly released National Space Weather Strategy and the National Space Weather Action Plan, written in anticipation of large-scale disruptions from a solar flare or similar event, writes: Released on October 28, 2015, the White House plan involves the coordination of agencies from the federal level, state level, and including emergency managers, academia, the media, the insurance industry, nonprofit organizations and the private sector, all in preparation for the worst-case scenario possible, such as the Carrington Event that took place in 1859.

188 comments

  1. I have a plan too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The private sector will 3D print a giant non-magnetic bowl over the Earth. I mean, space is such an obvious slam-dunk business case for huge profits, and our glorious selfless private investor class is already chomping at the bit to make even more space money!

    1. Re:I have a plan too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    2. Re:I have a plan too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:I have a plan too by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Was hoping for cows. Left disappointed.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  2. They have no plan by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you actually read TFA and TFD's, there is no plan. What there is, is an outline for a plan. This is about what they should do to prepare a plan -- it's not an actual plan.

    Once they have a plan, then they need specially prepared gear, vehicles, etc. They don't have enough hardened / sheltered "stuff" to even have a hope of dealing with a really significant event.

    If you don't have solar power stored in a nice dark box inside a Faraday cage, along with (at least) a radio and anything electrical you need to survive*, you won't even have the beginnings of what you'll need to going to do well -- and the government is not, in any way, prepared to help you out at this time. And your neighbors... they aren't going to be happy you're okay, and they are not, either.

    * I do... I photograph auroras for fun, and in learning about them... and as I am both a ham and an engineer... it does tend to provoke some paranoia. And as for the neighbors... this is Montana. :)

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This mostly seems like all the plan you need, rolled into the other emergency plans. Just safe-kept "basics" - radios, etc, with which to rebuild and organize with again.

    2. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Their response will be just like Hurricane Katrina... They'll just sit on their fat asses. Their only plan is for themselves... which is why I've stored away some solar panels, emergency supplies, bug out kit, etc. Nobody should depend on some govt agency when a large disaster strikes.

    3. Re:They have no plan by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      I'll bet if you ask them about the status of their "plan", they will answer, "we are currently implementing plans to size the effort."

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    4. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course they don't have a plan! It's the government! When has the government ever been able to put a plan together and put it into action!?

      The private space sector run by selfless philanthropic billionaires will 3D print a game-changing solution in space!

    5. Re:They have no plan by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you don't have solar power stored in a nice dark box inside a Faraday cage, along with (at least) a radio and anything electrical you need to survive

      We're talking about a solar flare, not an EMP from a nuke at ground zero. The only reason massive solar flares damage things is because we have millions of miles of wires stretched across entire continents acting like massive antennas absorbing the energy from the flare on a massive, massive scale. The primary risk is the infrastructure itself going down - mainly in the form of tens of thousands of power transformers being destroyed. It's also possible that anything plugged into the grid can also be damaged, similar to a lightning strike, however in all likelihood the grid would be damaged before it can transfer the power of the solar flare into homes (it would be a slow build up over time - hours and maybe days - until it cooks the transformers and other equipment designed to regulate power).

      So Faraday cages and the like to protect from solar flare are, well, about as useful as tin foil hats. Main thing is to disconnect your house from the grid via your main breakers when we know CME strike is imminent (and of course we will know about many hours in advance).

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    6. Re:They have no plan by kenwd0elq · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was going to say much the same thing, but you've said it better.

      Just to add SOMETHING to the mix, however, I would have thought that hardening our electrical grid _MIGHT_ have been one of the things the gub'mint should have spent a little of the trillion wasted "stimulus" dollars on. But as Instapundit Glenn Reynolds puts it, that might have given real jobs to burly men rather than to the natural Democrat constituencies.

      Further, as the recent article from Nature pointed out, ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica have recently revealed spikes in C-14 and Be-10, indicative of a truly MASSIVE solar storm, in 774 and 993, perhaps as much as 5 times more powerful than the Carrington Event. So, yeah, perhaps we should think about planning to begin.

    7. Re:They have no plan by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      They have "Top. Men." working on their plan.

    8. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not a plan, that's a goal!

      - Benjamin Motherfucking King

    9. Re:They have no plan by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      I photograph auroras for fun, and in learning about them... and as I am both a ham and an engineer... it does tend to provoke some paranoia. And as for the neighbors... this is Montana. :)

      What are the auroras looking like lately? I'll be spending a week a little north of you in Lethbridge, AB, and it'd be awesome if that's far enough north to see anything.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    10. Re:They have no plan by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      i dont know what im talking about so excuse me if this sounds insane to those who know more about it than I do

      is it possible to enclose the transformers in faraday cages? the cost would be ridiculous.... but what is it compared to replacing them all when they fry?

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    11. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought burly men belonged to labor unions.

      It's only pasty little dweebs who think they can face down an entire corporation's management, legal, and HR teams single-handedly.

    12. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Money must first be irrelevant. A genetic mutation to keep it all reasonable next. So replicators, and transporters are a good place to start. I'd say CERN is ahead right now.

    13. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't knock'em, that's a good start. Look at the planet in time. Lights glowing, now there's stuff flying out. Like a flea leaving a dog but still, quite interesting.

    14. Re:They have no plan by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      If a solar flare is accompanied by a coronal mass ejection (CME) then the CME can trigger a geomagnetic storm. It's the geomagnetic storm that causes so many problems for the electrical grid. A wire moving in a magnetic field, or a wire in a moving magnetic field (which is the case here) causes a current to be generated. Because the length and number of wires and the magnitude of a large geomagnetic storm then a large current is created. It is the large current that overloads transformers, circuit breakers, and anything else that happens to be connected to the grid. So wrapping a transformer in a Faraday cage would provide no protection as the damage isn't from EMF.

    15. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe uniting against the catastrophes the Sun poses might form a similar threat akin to an alien invasion where humans, simply feel and see each other as humans instead of John and Mary. Which of course is also important but not as strange as the mass of this planet here affecting all that we know as space and time.

    16. Re:They have no plan by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      thank you for that. I am actually a little shocked that hardened equipment isnt more prevalent. I remember the brownouts in the east coast in the early 00's and thought to myself at the time that the system needed an overhaul. I dont know what would work (if anything) but i am a little shocked that we dont hear about people making headway on this kind of thing

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    17. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations on existing. Other assemblance of specific atomic structures are proud of your struggle to keep "your" atoms within proximity despite the expansion forced upon you by all this stuff here and now. Those waves sure showed that dimension who's the boss in keeping relative dimensional variances low. *peels a banana*

    18. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Top. Men.

    19. Re:They have no plan by kenwd0elq · · Score: 3, Informative

      Auroras: spaceweather.com does daily aurora reports. Check them out. Auroras are not, generally, predictable; they are more common during times of geomagnetic storms, but sometimes happen when geomagnetic activity is low, and are sometimes absent when the activity level is high.

    20. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't having fuses at the inputs and outputs of transformers protect from this? There would be a lot of blown fuses, but those are much faster and easier to replace than whole transformers.

    21. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is no need for "hardened" equipment, only properly working circuit breakers. The onset of a geomagnetic storm is slow, over the course of hours. All that you need is a circuit breaker that trips when excess current is seen. Stuff like this has already worked in the past, like the blackout in Quebec that was caused by a geomagnetic storm. Yes, the power goes out during the storm, but as soon as the storm is over you just reset the system and there is no permanent damage.

      The only place there is serious risk is places where circuit breakers have not been properly set up. And it won't probably be the first ones that trip that cause the problem, but a cascade as the demand shifts to other lines. We've had this problem with non-solar related black outs cascading before, and often it involves circuit breakers that didn't have the correct current rating set and/or were poorly maintained. The cascading of loads is much faster than the timescale of the storm itself. There is also potential for issues on systems that have breakers based purely on AC signals that would miss the relatively DC effects of the storm, but this is pretty uncommon in first world power grids, and ultimately will trip AC circuits anyway when the transformers start to saturate.

    22. Re:They have no plan by kenwd0elq · · Score: 1

      Men who make things - union or not - took second fiddle to health care workers unions and teachers' unions during the "stimulus" that failed miserably to stimulate spending. Of course, great chunks of that money went to crony-capitalists like Solyndra, which pissed away a half a billion dollars and accomplished nothing at all. Road and bridge repair got virtually NO "stimulus" money, even after a couple of high-profile bridge collapses.

    23. Re:They have no plan by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      is it possible to enclose the transformers in faraday cages?

      Not while connected to the grid. The "fix" is to have all the transformers electrically isolated from the power lines. That makes them useless. So the "trick" is to make it possible, and protect it only when necessary.

      Though, a single large DPRK nuke, detonated over Kansas, would fry much more than a flare would. So the flare would be damaging, but not as much. The EMP nature of the flare is lower. It's a longer, slower event. The power lines will be very succeptible, but the coils in a transformer and computer chips would be less sensitive. A DPRK nuke over Kansas would fry PC chips on both coasts. A flare would just take out the power grid, and the additional radiation could cause more bit errors in computers.

    24. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice! I take photos of areolas for fun, little different hobby...

    25. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should we believe anything that you say? There are a lot of people here saying a lot of things, often contradictory, and none of them seem to have authoritative knowledge.

    26. Re:They have no plan by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      hardened is not what you think. In most cases it means making it more robust, but only against specific things. Some shielding. Some wider paths. Slower clocks. Hardened things have the same survivability whether on or off at the time, but won't operate properly under blast conditions.

      You can't harden some things. Other things you can harden on paper, but aren't hard in practice. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... are common when hardening. You gap the copper to isolate each side, and hop the gap with light. There isn't a physical connection with copper, but they are primarily used for isolation in low noise environments, not isolation in high power environment, so in EMP conditions, they'll arc and defeat the hardening.

    27. Re:They have no plan by AK+Marc · · Score: 1, Informative

      I don't care if you do or don't believe anything I or anyone else says. Confirm it on your own, or don't. I don't care.

    28. Re:They have no plan by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      I thought burly men belonged to labor unions.

      That is correct, but they are not Democratic constituents and have not been for some time - they are just people who vote for Democrats against their own best interests.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    29. Re:They have no plan by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Your complaint is just a weak "No True Scotsman" attack. Is that really the best you can do in criticizing the plan, is to declare that it isn't plan-y enough?

      They do have a plan. And it doesn't include having the ` "stuff" ' you hand-wave about. You make no case that specialty equipment is even needed, and you certainly don't give the indication that you have actually identified a need for specific (un-named) equipment. You do realize that the problem is with long-distance power transmission and satellites, and that outside of that, special equipment isn't needed? And that shielding and shielded equipment won't be needed? We'll need to replace transmission equipment. That is all. The new stuff will be the same as the old stuff.

      No, your photo-voltaic will not be fried. No, they don't need to be stored in a Faraday cage. And no, you're not an "engineer." They're probably paranoid because you're a clue-stick, not because you're a ham, or own a camera.

      Consumer devices will not be damaged. There is no reason you will need radios, unless you're already using radios for communication, in which case you'll be able to turn on the ones you have.

    30. Re:They have no plan by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the link.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    31. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ur a ham ? Do they not eat a lot of pork in Montana?

    32. Re:They have no plan by davester666 · · Score: 1

      The plan is the same as for nuclear war.

      Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    33. Re: They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keith Laumer, is that you?

    34. Re:They have no plan by Drethon · · Score: 1

      I'm not an expert but have a little electric knowledge and from my understanding this would be true. The current across the power lines is what produces the damage. However I suspect the surge is high enough a rather significant fuse would be required.

    35. Re:They have no plan by Bengie · · Score: 1

      You don't want to open the circuit, you want to shunt to ground/Earth.

    36. Re:They have no plan by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't a high current just trigger the circuit breakers?

    37. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you really cared about who was right or wrong, you could try actually looking anything up yourself...

      Heck, all you need is some numbers and high school level physics. A very large geomagnetic storm might change the magnetic field by a millitesla, and lets be generous and say on a timescale of 15 minutes, when it might often be much slower. Let's say for some stupid reason your phone had a giant loop of wire, ~10 cm^2, connected to a critical part. Basic physics will give you that you're inducing a signal of about 1 nanovolt in such a setup (in reality, most of those circuits will have areas of a mm^2 or less).

      For comparison, say you had a simple dipole fridge magnet of ~5 mT strength, and you walked by a fridge with a magnet ~10 cm from your phone in your pocket(strength of a dipole drops off ~1/r^3) so that the change in magnetic field is now only 5 microtesla, but you walked by in about 10 seconds. You would induce about the same voltage.

      This only really matters when you put in very large areas. If you replace that 10 cm^2 with 1 km^2, for say the area between a power line and the ground return, you get an induced voltage of 5 volts, which can start to induce some pretty big currents in a low resistance system. When you get areas of many square kilometers for voltages induced in the ground itself, that can give you even higher voltages.

      The point is, unless your electronics suck so much that waving a fridge magnet around them can destroy them, they won't noticed a geomagnetic storm. You need very large areas involved in systems with low resistances to notice any significant problems from induced voltages and currents. And the only reason people argue over some of the details is because some of them can't do basic physics, where the numbers show orders of magnitude differences between the effects they describe and what could actually happen.

    38. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and that is exactly what happened in some previous cases like the black out in Quebec in the 1989.

      But there are also times when circuit breakers fail or were configured incorrectly, as has been seen in other blackout events. And there are changes to the system that could be done to help minimize how much of the grid gets shut down in a given sized event, and to make things easier to restart.

    39. Re:They have no plan by khallow · · Score: 1

      Eh, they don't need much of a plan to be honest. The real problem here is that the US routinely refuses to pay thousands of dollars for disaster preparedness (such as stockpiling empty sandbags), but doesn't flinch at millions of dollars for disaster recovery (such as buildings flooded because sandbags couldn't be located in time).

    40. Re:They have no plan by ksheff · · Score: 1

      Even if there was a plan, the Feds would screw it up.

      --
      the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
    41. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the problem with the response to Hurricane Katrina was that Kathleen Blanco is a fuckwit. If she would have filed the requests for Federal assistance when her neighboring governors did, it would have arrived much earlier. Her and Nagin should have been publicly flogged for their insane levels of incompetence.

    42. Re:They have no plan by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Of course, great chunks of that money went to crony-capitalists like Solyndra, which pissed away a half a billion dollars and accomplished nothing at all.

      Of course the reason they failed so spectacularly is that Chinese companies with government support dumped panels on the market at below cost, which made Solyndra's investment in lower cost production techniques irrelevant.

    43. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right, this is not a plan. If it were a plan, there would be no need to do anything else. ala Kevin Bacon - Tremors

    44. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work for them. I developed a comprehensive plan for them. When my superiors saw it, they were freaked out, said it was too expensive (about $20 billion dollars), took too long to implement (about 6 weeks after funding/purchases) and that it was too 'pessimistic', meaning I presumed that all long lines would become inductors and destroy a lot of our electrical infrastructure. My plan therefor involved complete backup of some parts, pre-positioned onsite with tools, etc, to conduct repairs. Faraday cages and stabilized gasoline for engines/generators, refreshed quarterly, all sorts of stuff.

      But the fear and panic of actually thinking about this occurring, that paralyzed them. They stopped logically processing, and started just throwing rocks at each other.

    45. Re:They have no plan by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Can they not be pulled[1] manually? Is there enough warning to do an orderly shutdown?

      [1] I realise they aren't like the ones in my basement, but I know you can take a line out of the grid intentionally for maintenance.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    46. Re:They have no plan by HiThere · · Score: 1

      With a Carrington Event the governors next door will have the same problem as the local ones, and so will the other countries.

      The post was exaggerated when talking about past disasters. But we haven't had an major disasters. Actually, humanity hasn't had any major disasters within historical record that weren't caused by other people. The eruption of a volcano in the area of the Mediterranean is an example that's just slightly prehistoric, and that caused immense loss of life and trauma in the survivors. It probably caused the fall of Crete, among many other problems.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    47. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For solar induced storms, there is usually quite a bit of warning, although the exact strength of the storm is still hard to estimate. If power companies wanted to pre-emptively shut things down, they can, although usually they want to keep things going as long as possible. It would be more appropriate to just pay closer attention to things, as at least some components of the grid can be shut off quick enough if there is need. There still seems to be a lack of coherence though, whether monitoring or communication problems, because many blackouts end up being a lot worse than they need to be. Cascades of blackouts can happen on minutes or longer timescale depending on exactly what is failing, and one could have asked why a person didn't just pull a plug in those cases too.

      Prior warning is most useful for satellites, where they can be put into a safe mode that mitigates most of the potential damage.

    48. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they had a plan they would just screw up the implementation anyway. The US Federal Government has shown itself to be completely and utterly incompetent at handling disasters. See the response to Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy.

      If this ever happens millions will die, while the feds are busy shuffling papers and pointing fingers.

    49. Re:They have no plan by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Of course they don't have a plan! It's the government! When has the government ever been able to put a plan together and put it into action!?

      I usually find it amusing that the same people who are "rah rah military" and think the US has the best, most advanced, most competent, most kick-ass military on the planet are the same people think that the US government couldn't possibly be doing anything right.

    50. Re:They have no plan by Agripa · · Score: 1

      It is the large current that overloads transformers, circuit breakers, and anything else that happens to be connected to the grid. So wrapping a transformer in a Faraday cage would provide no protection as the damage isn't from EMF.

      It is not the current itself from the geomagnetic storm which damages the transformer.

      What happens is that the low frequency common mode current from the geomagnetic storm moves the B-H curve of the transformer core toward saturation. When that happens, the inductance falls and the existing 60 Hz circulating current increases catastrophically causing failure do to high temperature in the copper windings. If power was removed before this happened, then the transformer would survive.

      Unfortunately lead time for constructing the largest transformers is months to years and the US no longer even has the facilities to do so; they have to be imported. The example transformer which failed in the 1989 event was only replaced in a timely manner because there was an suitable unused transformer for a nuclear plant which was cancelled.

      http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/...
      http://www.solarstorms.org/Spo...

    51. Re:They have no plan by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Sure but it is an extra expense and the extra complexity lowers reliability outside of a Carrington type event.

    52. Re:They have no plan by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Can they not be pulled[1] manually? Is there enough warning to do an orderly shutdown?

      I counted approximately 5 electrical sub-stations in my perambulations around my home town a couple of days ago, and wasn't really paying attention. To the best of my knowledge, there are no premises in the town owned by the power utility, other than the sub-station sites (which are blank concrete boxes, or arrays of transformers, breakers and metering equipment surrounded by a "fuck-off" spiky fence). Driving around to manually isolate each of those would probably take around an hour. Plus a half hour for someone to get here from the nearest larger town (IF there are any staff of the utility company there). That's just one small town.

      This is the reason that such systems are automated, with local control from sensors on (or immediately adjacent to) the circuit breaker. There is no point in having a sensor three "hops" away on the grid, if there is a lightning strike (or car crash dropping a transmission line) on your grid segment.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    53. Re:They have no plan by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Once they have a plan, then they need specially prepared gear, vehicles, etc. They don't have enough hardened / sheltered "stuff" to even have a hope of dealing with a really significant event.

      God dammit. Solar flares are not fucking EMP events. It is not a nuke. It will have ZERO effect on cars, boats, planes cellphones. In fact anything that doesn't have a circuit loop measured in hundreds of km is totally uneffected. ie they only thing affect is the grid. That is it. Oh and circuit breakers and other limit devices do tend to protect most of the hardware in that case as well.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    54. Re:They have no plan by delt0r · · Score: 1

      breakers and any core saturation cutoffs (often installed) will in fact trip, *as they did last time* will high DC currents that are what typically disrupt the gird on one of these events.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    55. Re:They have no plan by delt0r · · Score: 1

      You know that many transformers. Especially the big ones, have protections built in that do get tripped in such events. In fact in the last bit one most of the breakers etc *did* trip saving most of the grid. Hence why power was restored hours later.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    56. Re:They have no plan by delt0r · · Score: 1

      You also want good DC or line imbalance detection/trips or high current neutral breakers. It is often put in, but less rigorously than pure overcurrent breakers because you often run a little imbalanced anyway (ie most houses are only wired with one phase).

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    57. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The example transformer which failed in the 1989 event was only replaced in a timely manner because there was an suitable unused transformer for a nuclear plant which was cancelled.

      Yet notice how that transformer is not associated with the largest and most notable blackout from 1989, which was due to a tripped circuit breaker that involved no damage, and just had to be reset several hours later after the storm calmed down.

    58. Re:They have no plan by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I usually find it amusing that the same people who are "rah rah military" and think the US has the best, most advanced, most competent, most kick-ass military on the planet are the same people think that the US government couldn't possibly be doing anything right.

      You notice that too? Ironically these are the same people who for the last 15 or so years have been doing everything they can do to keep government from doing it's job.

      Maybe its part of their starve the beast plan.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    59. Re:They have no plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is becoming increasingly rare for larger substations to not have remote monitoring and control over major switch equipment. The smaller substations are not going to be as big of an issue in a storm, as it is the ones connected to the longer transmission lines and the ones with larger equipment that will be more important to protect.

      If a power company wanted to play it safe (as in possibly too conservatively safe), they will remotely disconnect (or shunt DC current if setup to do so) as many things as they can in a bad storm before circuits trip (i.e. manually, via remote control). Although more realistically, based on what they've done in previous storms, is find that their automatic current limits are set too conservatively and end up increasing them to try to keep the grid up as long as possible and only pull lines and equipment out when it gets really bad.

  3. Did they really have to use that image? by oneiros27 · · Score: 1

    SDO/AIA has a strange design that results in internal reflections at high intensities ... resulting in that abnormal lens-flare like effect.

    And besides ... the 131Angstrom images have a rather strange color palette. Most people stick with 304, 171-ish or 193-ish. (and to make it more confusing, the AIA color tables for ~171 and ~193 don't match SOHO/EIT and STEREO/EUVI)

    I mean, I'm thankful they didn't use that early EIT 304 filament image from before they were properly accounting for the burn-in at the limb ... but that 131 flare image sucks, too.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  4. Carrington event is not biggest possible. by queazocotal · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://arstechnica.co.uk/scien... - twice in the last thousand years or so, there has been an event around ten to twenty times larger, with a _much_ more energetic and destructive (to orbital things) spectrum.

    1. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Right now, our modern civilization as we know it, may break down when the GPS system fails, and therefore the cell phone network collapses.

      I think there are events much smaller than Carrington which the country is by no means prepared for..... can't worry about the once in 1000 years event at this point (IMO), when we're not yet prepared for the 1 in 100 years events.

    2. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Who cares about GPS and cell phone service? How is Google going to sell ads on cat videos? How am I going to watch Twitch?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Bengie · · Score: 1

      You don't need an always on GPS network if the local devices have a backup Stratum 1 clock. You can get clocks that have around 1 microsecond of skew per day. Using one of these, you can lose GPS signal for at least a few days before it becomes an issue.

    4. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      you can lose GPS signal for at least a few days before it becomes an issue.

      Do you think the GPS signal is going to be back online within a few days after a X40 event that destroys a plurality of the satellites in orbit?

    5. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      What are you talking about?

      Cell networks don't require GPS, so why would GPS going down have anything to do with cell service going down? If one of these events happened, the power network going down would be far worse than the cell or GPS networks going down. In fact, it is more likely that the power would go out, not the cell network until the batteries/generators died.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    6. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cell networks don't require GPS, so why would GPS going down have anything to do with cell service going down?

      Yes, they often do. GPS is used to calibrate the local oscillators. There are other ways, such as bidirectional calibration over microwave links to another cell with an RbFS, or having an RbFS in each cell site, but it is often the case that cell sites (BTS) rely on a GPSDO to provide a reference frequency for their LO. Lacking a suitable (highly accurate) reference, a cellular network will collapse under co-channel interference as the transmitters in each BTS drift over each other's channels rendering the network nonfunctional; or at least that is what would happen except BTS are designed to switch off when the reference clock asserts /REFLOCK.

      It is also common in DTH TV networks to use GPSDO for carrier alignment.

    7. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at other replies to Coren22. Realize Coren22's a liar and troll scumbag when apk tore him up many times with quotes.

    8. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Bengie · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the devil is in the details, but in theory you only need a few GPS satellites in view at the same time. As long as this situation happens once every few days, you're golden.

    9. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      As long as this situation happens once every few days, you're golden.

      The concern being a CME associated with a X40 event hitting earth could likely obliterate all the satellites in orbit, so there wouldn't be a single one left.....

      Putting together a few more satellites and launching them into orbit afterwards is possible, to replace the downed system, but likely takes years.

    10. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Obliterate"? There are three main mechanisms of damage to satellites from such storms: ionosphere heating that increases drag of the atmosphere in low earth orbit, increased radiation, and interference of radio signals. The first two are effects that satellites are always exposed too, and the problem with storms is it accelerates the ageing, but doesn't obliterate them. The latter two can be mitigated by satellite safe modes, that prevent erroneous signals and bit flips from causing long term problems. Otherwise, the satellites return back to normal after the storm is over, as long as their controllers didn't perform any actions that were damaging and they were not almost dead from long term exposure to the typical space environment.

    11. Re:Carrington event is not biggest possible. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The concern is not GPS location data, but that GPS is commonly used as a synced stratum 1 time source which is essential in TDMA networks.

  5. Sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure they have had people study solar flares. The feds have had people study damn near everything. It does not mean they have come up with a good response to these events. Having implemented the necessary preparations for that good response is even less likely.

    Still, it is better to be willfully ignoring risks than blindly ignoring them.

  6. is it Space Weather by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    or Space Climate?

    1. Re:is it Space Weather by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 0

      or Space Climate?

      This is obviously Man-Made Space Climate Hanky Panky. If you study this in "2001: A Space Odessey", the first of many of famed film director's Stanly Kubrick faked Moon Landings produced at Area 51, everything with the Space Climate was working fine, between the monkey-boy critters on the Earth, and the concrete slab delivery boys from outer space. Then, the concrete slab delivery boys mistakenly delivered a slab that sung some freaked out Hungarian music, which instructed the Earth Monkey Boys to smach small around skulls, with bones. This wasn't a problem, until one of the Monkey Boys tossed a bone into the air, and it transformed into a space shuttle, which in turn, knocked another space shuttle out of it's path, and got the whole world caught up in an Alien Mexican Standoff.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:is it Space Weather by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are overdue for refilling your lithium prescription. Just sayin'.

  7. Is preparation a problem by Dereck1701 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From what I understand there is really only one preparation, which is the entire reason the Space Weather Prediction Center was created. To know that it's coming and be ready to shut down the grid. This isn't an EMP, it won't overly effect individual electrical systems (like a Hospital running on a generator). It really only effects large networks which have enough surface area to serve as a receiver for the energy of the storm. The biggest threat is operators not reacting fast enough, which would cause the grid voltage to increase to levels that it wasn't designed for which would cause transformers, generators and other control/generation systems to burn out. If that happened replacement of the burnt out systems would take years.

    1. Re:Is preparation a problem by ka9dgx · · Score: 1

      The grid voltage isn't the problem, it's the DC currents which would be induced on the power lines... transformers can't handle DC bias, it causes the core to saturate, which then causes the inductance to fall, primary currents to rise, and then failure from all the extra current heating the windings.

    2. Re:Is preparation a problem by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, there is a better preparation, ground resistors for transformers so the grid doesn't even need to be shut down. Solved problem, just need to spend the money and do it; estimated cost by Michio Kaku and other members of the American Physical Society was less than $200 million. chump change, cheap insurance.

    3. Re:Is preparation a problem by ClickOnThis · · Score: 5, Informative

      This.

      The electrical grids consist of cables that are strewn over long distances. They act like giant antennas that pick up the EM radiation from the flare and its interaction with the Earth's magnetic field. To protect the grid, you disconnect portions of it from each other, so that instead of a few giant "antennas", you have many more small ones. The current induced in the smaller "antennas" is much lower and far less harmful. And this is why prediction is so important: the early warning allows grid-operators to disconnect the grid in time to avoid catastrophic damage.

      Satellites are also vulnerable because they can suffer deep static-charging that burns out electrical components. Unfortunately, forecasting doesn't help as much for this. The best you can do is study the magnitudes of expected events, engineer as well as you can against them, and plan for redundancy and replacement of the satellites as needed.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    4. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's DC, it can't induce. Please stop spewing bullshit.

    5. Re:Is preparation a problem by ClickOnThis · · Score: 2

      Geomagnetically-induced currents are quasi-DC because the inducing EM fields have low frequencies. The impedance of the transformers (Z = j*omega*L) drops with frequency (omega) and thus they become vulnerable to catastrophic failure due to high currents through the transformer coils.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    6. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Partitioning the grid is also a method for mitigating nuclear EMP. At present, according to the 2009 study, there are only 3 major electrical regions in the country, and sufficiently disturbing much of one takes down the whole region. It's then difficult to reestablish operating islands, assuming equipment isn't seriously damaged, that can be built back up to feed the whole region again. What's needed is to make sub-regions more independent of each other, especially regarding frequency, in addition to adding mitigation measures to major equipment as discussed elsewhere here.

      The 2009 report equated major solar-triggered EM disturbance (similar to the Quebec incident, which was large but much smaller than a Carrington) to the 3rd phase of a nuclear EMP - affecting long lines and the grid more than smaller items.

      One surprising finding of the study was that it's practically impossible to "cold start" a nuclear plant without an operating grid for it to tie into.

    7. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as pure DC, as such currents are turned on and off at times. DC is relative, meaning it is flat on a timescale you care about. On a 60 Hz system, anything that changes at minutes to hours timescale like a geomagnetic storm will look just like DC.

    8. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's also nonsense. The real reason those induced currents are harmful is that they are common mode to the transformer. They could be at 1KHz or 0.01Hz.

    9. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you. And as a practical matter, if you haven't lived through, say, over two weeks without power in early winter or a major disaster this might not sound so bad. It is. Power companies and governments can't deal with relatively minor problems like hurricanes. They don't anticipate consequences like gas stations and refineries being unable to respond. This would actually look like Mad Max. (The original.)

    10. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mad Max was about global thermonuclear war. A huge event much more likely to end our civilization than a solar flare.

      Though, if nuclear power plants are not protected, the resulting toxic global environment would be pretty bad ass too.

    11. Re:Is preparation a problem by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      So the basic personal preparation is to practice banging rocks together :D

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    12. Re:Is preparation a problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 1 kHz common mode signal is going to do very little to a large power transformer, since that signal would struggle to get through even the leakage inductance of a larger power transformer, resulting in very little current. With very little current, you would not be driving the transformer into saturation. On the other end, low frequency stuff goes right through the transformer and can induce currents based just on the winding resistance, which can be quite small making large currents easy.

      Have you ever worked with transformers in any circuit design, like a power supply? Have you never noticed how higher frequency signals let you use much smaller transformers and coils because it is much harder to saturate the core with higher frequency signals?

    13. Re:Is preparation a problem by Kythe · · Score: 1

      There are multiple possible ways to prepare. Broadly speaking, they are: disconnections (if warning is received), protective devices to stop unbalanced current in the grid, and replacement transformers (right now, the thousands of house-sized, custom-made extremely high voltage transformers upon which the grid depends, and which take many months to make with a years-long backlog, have few if any spares lying around).

      --

      Kythe
  8. That's not a plan, that's a plan to plan by Etcetera · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To be fair, there's not much incredibly unique about solar weather like this that wouldn't apply to a general electrical catastrophe from an intentional EMP. There's a chance of getting some notice notice, but the practical effects of that will be slim other than telling anyone with a Faraday Cage to close and everyone else to attempt to power everything down first.

    Whether it's a rogue state exploding a few nukes in space over the US (no targetting needed, just fire it up from a shipping container at set it to explode about 100mi high), or the Sun taking it out, the end is the same... pretty complete collapse of infrastructure everywhere at once. Think Katrina, but simultaneously across the county. What infrastructure remains working probably won't stay functioning for long with all of the other issues going on...

    The logistics of rebuilding will be immense and measured in years, and that's assuming we have enough working equipment after that to "reboot civilization", as it were, and some other -- better equipped -- country with a few working jets doesn't decide to take advantage of things. The military will have properly shielded equipment in many cases, but it's an open question how long and in what way a chain of command can survive when disconnection is universal and recovery is years away.

    The rural areas will be survivable; the coastal cities and anywhere where survival depends on electricity and food transportation logistics will not be.

    The book One Second After is a decent look at what it might be like, although I have faith that there will be more HAMs than he seems to think who might be able to help with long distance communication in the aftermath. Or you could just watch reruns of Revolution and ignore the mystical nanite techno-babble and focus on the sociology of the collapse.

    1. Re:That's not a plan, that's a plan to plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      To be fair, there's not much incredibly unique about solar weather like this that wouldn't apply to a general electrical catastrophe from an intentional EMP. There's a chance of getting some notice notice, but the practical effects of that will be slim other than telling anyone with a Faraday Cage to close and everyone else to attempt to power everything down first.

      Sorry, but you and the mods need to learn there is a huge difference between an EMP and a geomagnetic storm, and that the latter has nothing to do with Faraday cages and telling everyone to shut things down.

      Geomagnetic storms involve magnetic fields changing on the hour timescale. Induced voltage is proportional to the area of a loop of wire and inversely proportional to the timescale involved. That very slow timescale means the induced voltages will be insignificant for anything that doesn't involve many kilometers of wire covering enough ground that the area involved in the wire or the ground itself is large enough to cause significant changes in voltage.

      There would be no impact on small scale electronics, especially anything disconnected from the grid. Faraday cages won't do much, as the skin depth of something that slow is several meters in a conductor. So it would be more like shielding something from a DC magnetic material, not that it would do any good as you would need to cover thousands of square kilometers of power distribution networks and ground.

      What you need instead is simply circuit breakers that can cut connections when DC current is too high, and there are even ways of wiring the transformers to ground better to mitigate the need to cut power in the first place. Head knowledge of the storm is most useful for satellite controllers than can just put satellites to sleep, as they are dealing with increased flux of particles from solar wind and radio communication problems that have potential to create fake signals in the controllers and orientate them in a useless way. It is also useful to help be prepared for large scale tripping of breakers on a power grid so as to watch out for cascading problems from improperly configured breakers and connections.

      EMPs from man made sources on the other hand are mostly much faster. Nuclear weapons can produce a couple different EMP components that have different timescales, including one that is slower and more like a geomagnetic storm. But the big concern there tends to be the much faster time scale, and faster timescale means it can induce voltages in much smaller things, like stuff that is disconnected from the grid, and things that wouldn't have a circuit breaker involved like your house wiring and power grids.

      Geomagnetic storms is not an end of technology based life, but about disruptions (not complete destruction) of power distribution and satellites. It is a potential source of massive economic problems, but that involves a different kind of prep much more boring than what you would see in a TV show.

    2. Re:That's not a plan, that's a plan to plan by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 1

      One Second After was a sobering read. In this scenario, two nukes go off way up in the atmosphere, high enough that nobody really notices them, but everything with micro-electronics in them stop working instantly. A massive percentage of the population dies off, far more than if the weapons had been set off in the largest cities. I hope this never happens. This is why we must never allow the mad mullahs to get nukes and ballistic missiles.

    3. Re:That's not a plan, that's a plan to plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this scenario, two nukes go off way up in the atmosphere, high enough that nobody really notices them, but everything with micro-electronics in them stop working instantly.

      Which makes it irrelevant/off-topic to a discussion of the impacts of a geomagnetic storm...

  9. 'thousand or so' ? by oneiros27 · · Score: 2

    Um ... both of those were more than a thousand years ago.

    I'm surprised you didn't mention the 1192 event. (Note that there's rebuttal to some things mentioned in that paper.)

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  10. Finally at least talking about it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The definitive study - which it looks like they're channeling in terms of sector effects - was published in 2009. It was premised on EMP attack using low-orbit or high-atmosphere nuclear explosions. Those would produce higher field intensity than most solar flares, though Carrington level and above were not considered. Effects similar, though, but not (unless the attack were carefully planned) global in scale. Loss of many if not most on-orbit (especially low-orbit) resources either immediately or by drastically shortening their lifespan, though, would have a global impact (no more GPS etc.).

    I do wonder if solar is really what you want. While the study didn't address it, wouldn't all those little conductors in a solar panel be a really good antenna for EMP? Alias poof-smoke?

  11. The options by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Push new cost to the private sector? With the issues of coal, consumers buying solar panels, nuclear interests and just looking after the grid..
    Who will pay for the grid upgrades? All tax payers? Each grid passes on a new upgrade tax to the consumers as a new basic connection cost?
    The option to just "discuss space weather preparedness" or "raise awareness" will not upgrade the networks.
    How much free cash is floating around for extra utility bill pressure to redesign the grid?
    Pass on to much cost at the utility side and solar panels becomes more attractive in some States.
    The "planning and decision" seems more like what to do after an event. Disaster response and recovery is a camp for the poor inner city populations?
    Is it cheaper just to have food, water, on standby from private sector contractors than to pass on grid upgrade costs?
    Create some new free State of National Emergency laws or demand new funds to invest in the grid?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  12. Plan by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    1. Run!
    2. Hide!
    3. Panic!
    4. Try the above in a different order.

    1. Re:Plan by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      you forgot

      ???
      Profit!

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Plan by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Not for us.

  13. Fed plan is simple by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 0

    First it will give billions of dollars to the private banks. And then.. nothing. It will keep giving money to banksters. That is the only thing it knows.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  14. I haff a plan.....!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ....Mein Fuhrer......**I can walk!!!**

  15. They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    The preppers learned from disasters (Katrina is one, but the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters also showed what happened when there is no government) a number of lessons:

    1: There will be marauders. Ask the guy who defended his house from gangs wanting his place, but couldn't stop them from burning his place down out of spite.

    2: People will panic and do very insane things. 24 hours after food trucks stop coming in, there will be a realistic re-enactment of the Donner Party on a larger scale. Not because people are actually truly starving, but they believe they are since getting a hamburger at McDonald's is impossible

    What causes the panic? Things like no running water, shit backing up from their toilets and flooding the bathrooms and basements, basements unusable due to ejector/sump pump failures, no electricity, and if someone pulls out a generator, someone else with a gun will relieve the person of said generator at once. Cell phones are nice, but when towers are down, they are not going to help much.

    Once people are paniced, well, expect every corner store, liquor store, gas station, sporting goods store, and Wally World to be emptied.

    Here in the US, we saw this before with the NYC power outages.

    3: The fires will start. At first, people will start fires... then realize there is no water to put them out, and once gas mains start going up, major parts of a city will be rendered uninhabitable by fire and smoke damage. The remaining areas will get fought over, likely burned (again, like in Katrina, the attitude of "if I can't have it, nobody can" will take over.)

    4: People will start spreading outwards to look for food (and people to rob, well.. because there are no cops, so they can.) This happened during Hurricane Sandy where people from NYC started begging/stealing/robbing rural farms. It was learned that 50 or so miles was a zone where the average vehicle ran out of fuel, and farms outside of that radius didn't have the vagabond problems that farms and rural areas closer to urban areas had.

    As for government intervention, they are not going to send troops into a city that is rioting, and with gangbangers with more guns than the national guard has. Instead, they will just seal all exits, wait a few weeks until everyone kills each other off, then send in troops to handle the remaining 5-10% of the people who have survived. Roads will be blockaded, preventing people who are starving from going past that (proven in Katrina.) Fires? As someone who evacuated from Central Texas fires, they likely will not be bothered with until they get burned out. There will be plenty of blockades and detours though.

    I wouldn't expect any help from the government. Remember, during Katrina, Sandy, and other disasters, no other country offered aid to the US (which is ironic because the US spends a lot of cash on aiding other nations), so expect to count on youself and your family, and nobody else. There is a reason why prepping has gone from an extremely, wingnut concept to something fairly mainstream.

    1. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you sound like someone who learned everything about New York by watching crime dramas and movies. Having been around there, including for Sandy, I don't think you've ever visited the city yourself, with or without the storm. It was a mess, but not as dramatic and zombie-apocalypse sounding as you make it out to be.

    2. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the point of prepping if the rioters will just burn all your carefully-prepared stuff anyway?

      I guess if you are outside of that 50 mile zone from any major city, maybe, but still, you have your non-prepper neighbors to deal with, and they are smarter than wild animals.

    3. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Remember, during Katrina, Sandy, and other disasters, no other country offered aid to the US (which is ironic because the US spends a lot of cash on aiding other nations)"

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
      Some of them even have their own extensive wiki page.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singaporean_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

        Wow, looks like the whole world tried to help you out. People, money, equipment, doctors, emergency shelter and supplies! Of course the irony is with a solar flare event, most of the world will be hit. So they won't be able to help you out either.

        I do find Americans responses to disasters interesting. In many countries, it brings people together, often in the US (or at least some parts) it drives the nation apart.

    4. Re:They have a plan allright... by sphealey · · Score: 3, Informative

      = = = This happened during Hurricane Sandy where people from NYC started begging/stealing/robbing rural farms. = = =

      100% grade A baloney. This entire post is a radical survivalist's fantasy of what they think should have happened after a national-scale natural disaster, and bears no resemblance to what actually did happen. During the Sandy situation citizens of the New York City region showed for the second time in 14 years that they are far more resilient and cooperative than the average American. "+4 Interesting" - sheesh.

      sPg

    5. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well actually...we enjoy a good apocalypse flick (astroid impact, zombie outbreak, mad max..etc) because it's a safe fantasy that hides from the reality to ultimate terror; societal breakdown. AMERICA IS NOT IMMUNE to such things. Nations rise and fall all the time. The question only remains if it will occur on your watch, hopping it will skip over or own lifetimes.

    6. Re:They have a plan allright... by mccalli · · Score: 1

      Rubbish. I gave aid myself for Katrina, and I'm in the UK. Other countries most certainly did offer aid.

    7. Re:They have a plan allright... by samkass · · Score: 3, Informative

      I live about 50 miles by road south of NYC. Closer as the crow flies. Nothing like this happened for Sandy (or Irene the year before). If anything, the event brought people closer together. Functioning power and cell phones were rare for a couple weeks, and gas got scarce fast (mostly due to lack of power for pumps). But we had a notable lack of marauders, and the neighbors showed a very strong preference for canned food over eating each other. People shared and generally acted like a right-wingers nightmare, coming together as a community to get through it together.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    8. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, there is some minor elements of truth in apocalypse films, but too many prepers take so much of it at face value. It would be like arguing LotR was historically accurate because swords were once used. I would expect some connection to reality to be an important survival trait, yet oddly the SCA and larper geeks seem to have more of a grasp on reality than most prepers I know.

    9. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This got upvoted? I live in NY and this is pure fantasy. I was downtown when the blackout hit and everyone was walking or driving home. There were people with coolers selling drinks, street vendors with food, and everyone was very friendly. After it got dark there were cops at most major intersections helping to direct traffic. I didn't see any gangs or looting or anything like that.

      After Sandy with all the damage and gas crisis and power outages there still was no panic. Plenty of people had generators going and no one was robbing them at gunpoint. If anything people were more sharing and generous than usual. Lots of people offered power, food, clothing, and whatever else they could share. No one was robbing anyone or any farms; that's complete nonsense. OP is way off the mark and has no idea what they're talking about.

    10. Re:They have a plan allright... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Nope, it's still wingnut.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    11. Re:They have a plan allright... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      100% grade A baloney. This entire post is a radical survivalist's fantasy of what they think should have happened after a national-scale natural disaster, and bears no resemblance to what actually did happen.

      Yup. The prepper group is always projecting their lack of civilization onto others. But time and time again it's been proven that people don't act the way he thinks they will when the shit hits the fan.

      Mad Max was a fun film and all, but it wasn't a documentary or a how-to.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re:They have a plan allright... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Which farms did NYC people rob? I live in NYC. Except for a few areas (the Rockaways, Coney Island, Staten Island) NYC was not hit hard. And even in those areas things didn't break down to the level you're making it out to be. It was an adventure. There was water. There was food. There were good people helping out their neighbors.

      Things did not fall apart. The center did hold.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    13. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mad Max was a fun film and all, but it wasn't a documentary or a how-to.

      Funny thing is people who do treat it as an accurate portrayal of how society would collapse don't even pay that close attention to it... as the first film show society collapses rather slowly in Australia after problems between other major countries, and Max had to go out of civilization to seek out trouble after massive mental stress.

    14. Re:They have a plan allright... by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 2

      An EMP, whether from the sun or a hostile act, will make Sandy look like a Sunday School picnic.

    15. Re:They have a plan allright... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's been my experience as well... though the stories out of Katrina did seem to be a mixed bag of dog eat dog and people helping each other.

    16. Re:They have a plan allright... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I live out in the sticks. When SHTF, well, we have a plan. They can all come to my house, or me to their house, and enjoy each other's company. It kind of helps that I'm in an unincorporated township - some 24 miles from even a small village and hundreds of miles from a real city. I've got enough supplies stored away, including licensed fuel tanks and a couple of hand pumps, so that I'll be inconvenienced but not really at risk. My neighbors probably all have similar and we'll be just fine. Hell, I've got radio equipment and enough hardware to make our own small internet. Somewhere, in the basement, I have an inbound call router - we'll be okay. :D

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    17. Re:They have a plan allright... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've been in a variety of natural disaster type things and even in a few countries with active wars taking place. This sort of movie script breakdown of society is, pretty much, the exact opposite of what I have personally witnessed. Maybe I'm missing something? Maybe they're just projecting what they'd do. Maybe I've never been in a situation bad enough for that to happen? I dunno...

      I was stuck in an ice storm that took out power for over two weeks. I ate a lot of acid, drank some, and had a hell of a time. I had to risk using a hammer to get into my car and driving was absolutely hilarious. I couldn't get all the way to the airport to fly back home, I sure as hell wasn't going to try to drive, and I just hunkered down with the friends I was visiting and used it as an excuse to get wasted.

      Up home, we regularly get power outages, extended ones, and floods and blizzards. I've seen people canoe down Main Street while I was eating in a diner that was surrounded by water - I had to hop over water to get inside. If we get a blizzard then we hop on a snowmobile and go to town that way or just hunker down. During the rest of the year, we'll take a four wheeler out and bring a chainsaw with us to clear the roads so traffic can get through. Hell, they'll let us clear the roads alongside the power company - they'll tell us when it's safe to cut.

      I find disasters or a good crisis will being out the best in people. It's not like a bunch of marauders are going to take on a few people, who are likely carrying a sidearm, in hopes of acquiring a can of tuna that would otherwise be given happily. Hell, some of my neighbors have equipment that's still able to be drawn by a horse so they could still keep fields mowed, cows fed, and make booze.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    18. Re:They have a plan allright... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I've been in a variety of natural disaster type things and even in a few countries with active wars taking place. This sort of movie script breakdown of society is, pretty much, the exact opposite of what I have personally witnessed.

      The version of societal breakdown they have is one that they actually want to happen, as opposed to what actually happens.

      If the prepper's wishes were what actually would happen, immediately after Germany's surrender as well as after Japan's surrender in world war 2, the populous would just have taken up a new war against the allies, and then themselves. That had to be as close to a total breakdown as ever happened in modern times.

      In the end, people do tend to help each other in disasters, and make no mistake about it, I'm a cynical shit who thinks our propensity towards killing each other may cause our extinction.

      But the preppers? Too bad it was from a movie and not a real life quote, but for my money, Michale Cain had the single best line in history. And it describes the preppers so well:

      . ...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    19. Re:They have a plan allright... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It's my experience that the ego-fueled and selfish are quickly marginalized. I imagine that, in a real crisis, they're be quickly dealt with in one way or another. I really think it might be projection. They seem to inclined to think that others will be as selfish as they are. Another part may be ego. They seem inclined to think that they can make a go of it on their own and be successful. That might be true, in some cases. I suspect it's not true for any more than a rounding error's worth of the people who self-identify as preppers.

      Me? I'll be fine. I'm prepared but I also have a great relationship with friends and family. My neighbors are all friends, as well. It's not so much that "I will be fine" but that "we will be fine." Combined we've enough skills and resources so that one need only marginal preparation efforts. We hunt, we grow, we preserve. We may be a little hungry, at first, but we've enough to survive and get through quite a bit - even in very hard situations. Hell, I have one neighbor who has no indoor plumbing and no mains electricity. They may not even notice for quite some time, unless we go check on them.

      Then again, my living situation isn't really all that normal. So, there's that. We don't even have a town office. We don't even have a town. We're in an unincorporated township - there are six houses and an equal number of camps. Assuming we go a minute without losing internet (many of use have alternative power sources) we might not actually notice some events. I've solar and wind. If the power goes out, it's all automatic and I don't notice anything at all. It just means that I'm not pushing anything out to the mains - I now generate more than I use.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  16. You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    The only reason massive solar flares damage things is because we have millions of miles of wires stretched across entire continents acting like massive antennas

    All electrical circuits are also antenna with a large enough power source "transmitting", and a Carrington level CME or larger is absolutely strong enough to affect individual electrical components.

    Funny you should mention tin foil, because with some warning you could save a lot of stuff with a few layers of plastic alternating with aluminum foil, then sealed totally shut.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Try looking up actual numbers for a Cardigan like event and find it is still a chance of millitesla over hours. Your individual electronics would be exposed to worst effects by walking past a fridge magnet.

    2. Re: You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ugh, that was supposed to be Carrington, but autocorrect...

    3. Re:You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All electrical circuits are also antenna with a large enough power source "transmitting"

      Yeah, except the power flux density of an event, even much larger than the Carrington event, is very small. You're talking about a ~1 mW / m^2 for a very large event. The changes in the magnetic field are just too small and too slow to represent a high power source for anything that is small. The danger is only when you integrate that flux over a very large area.

    4. Re: You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by Kythe · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      --

      Kythe
    5. Re: You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: "...a Cardigan like event ..."

      (snicker!)
      Did Mr. Rogers tell you to say that?

    6. Re: You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did Mr. Rogers tell you to say that?

      No, but it does concern me that autocorrect favors that word despite having used Carrington multiple times from working in a field close enough to solar plasma physics. Dangers of lacking fashion sense are more widespread than anticipated...

    7. Re:You are dead wrong, CME can be very bad by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Buhahahahaha, oh wait you believe that bullshit. Here is a hint. The core was a really really bad hollywood movie. Not real life. Look it up dumb arse. The internet makes that easier than ever.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  17. ...but they don't have funding. by Bob_Who · · Score: 1

    Its not a plan unless they have a budget.

    Perhaps the Feds should figure out what to do in case of catastrophic irrelevance, political expedience, and an inability of government to do anything according to plan or commitment to the desired outcome. Its another attempt at "set it and forget it" disaster preparedness that serves to do little in case of emergencies.

    But it's a start.

  18. Deus Ex Machina by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm less concerned about the threats from outer space than I am about the catastrophe we will cause ourselves.

    http://graphics.latimes.com/ex...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  19. That is not the worst-case scenario. by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

    The worst case scenario is having a massive solar flare hit earth in the middle of a geomagnetic reversal when the Earth could have multiple north and south poles. Any area near one of those poles will find themselves even more vulnerable to the energetic particles from the flare.

  20. Uh Oh! by WeeBit · · Score: 0

    We are all doomed!

    1. Re:Uh Oh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if everyone in the world, before we were born, worked harder, immortality would have been invented by now. But those slackers just obsessed over their own petty indulgences, and now we all have to die.

      I suppose I could work really hard in hopes of hastening the invention of immortality, but it is unlikely that it will be accomplished in my lifetime (especially since all you lazy bastards won't focus on it), so what's the point?

      I am doomed. My only consolation is that you are doomed too. Serves you right for not inventing immortality, asshole.

  21. If I were FEMA, I would reorganize thusly by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Develop field hospitals, bunkhouses, feeding centers, rescue bases, and other disaster handling gear designed as modules all in the standard 2TEU long freight container size. Store them in unused corners of military bases around the country. Make retainer arrangements with a well-distributed number of long-haul truckers such that when disaster occurs truckers who happen to be properly situated at the time will drive to a designated base, exchange their current load for a specified FEMA module, and haul it to the disaster zone. Meanwhile, their regular trailer is waiting at the pickup base under military protection for the duration.

    For overseas needs, using the standard container size would allow modules to be carried by ship and rail anywhere in the world.

    1. Re:If I were FEMA, I would reorganize thusly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FEMA had emergency housing ready and delivered for Katrina, but they weren't put into use because of some minor problem of habitability. So they just sat there unused while thousands were left to fend for themselves. Something is better than nothing but BS govt red tape screwed people.

  22. Putting 'Black Start' into everyone's vocabulary by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 2

    Take a moment to review NERC EOP-005-2: System Restoration from Blackstart Resources. If you live in North America, plans described in this document are your only real line of defense from the chaos and harm that may arise from grid-down disaster. Here is a peek at some software tools used by the industry and Black Start specific enhancements in progress [2013].

    Note that NERC's Compliance and Enforcement process is voluntary. This means no one's going to jail for failure to implement these measures... and there are many in the industry who prefer it that way. We have witnessed the growth of the Department of Homeland Security way past its original mandate. Indeed there is a slow motion power grab in progress.

    If you distrust large corporations and the consortiums they form then you're already suspicious. But few can argue that the grid is not resilient or well designed. In most cases frequency and voltage give operators all the feedback they need. But it has not ever been shut off completely, and the electrical equivalent of post-9/11 'ground stop' is neither practical nor possible to test black start capability... NERC does do regular computer simulations of country-wide restarts.

    So if you are fortunate to live near one of the ~7,304 operational power plants in the United States (for example) and know some people who work there, you might pose these questions:

    Has your plant participated in EOP-005 drills?
    Has there ever been a country or region-wide drill where procedures are acted out in real time?
    Do you feel the time presently devoted to this scenario is adequate, and plans are in place?
    Do you have confidence that the grid could be restarted successfully?
    Are there any 'old school' approaches to this problem you feel are not addressed or trained adequately?
    To what extent are these black start procedures reliant on computers and functional computer networks?
    What kinds of grid-wide inter-plant communications are in place for coordination when the grid is down?
    Would any coordination efforts rely on carrier networks (telephone, cell, Internet) being up?

    The very first BBC episode of Connections The Trigger Effect explores how we have become reliant on modern technology without needing to understand its intricacies, and uses the Northeast Blackout on November 9, 1965 and peoples' reactions to illustrate this.

    If Black Start should fail or become delayed indefinitely, National Geographic: American Blackout is a documentary that dramatically explores effects of an extended grid outage. It is a tame outage -- no Winter freeze or volcanic ash --- with cyberattack as its rather specious scenario. At present the operational controls of power plants are diverse and there is a great deal of manual control, and a coordinated attack could only target the grid monitoring systems and communications between plants.

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  23. 1970s Solar Flare Telco Cable Crash by billstewart · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I used to work at Bell Labs, in a department that had a bunch of nuclear physicists doing research into EMP, because the government wanted studies about hardening their networks in case of nuclear war, and a big thing that influenced them was a telco cable that crashed during a mid-1970s solar flare. It was back when long-haul cable systems were still copper, before fiber had replaced them, and a few hundred miles of copper wire becomes a very big antenna if you hit it with enough of a magnetic field, and there's enough voltage difference between it and ground to fry the equipment at both ends. They had a huge amount of data to work with, and they also studied the effects of EMP on various pieces of equipment, and ways to design the networks to be resilient against suddenly getting big holes in it.

    Fiber optics helps with a lot of this (but obviously that doesn't help the electric companies.) On the other hand, during the 60s and 70s, the phone networks were changing from electromechanical phone switches like relays and crossbars, which were easy to protect, to transistors and integrated circuits that just aren't, and you're not going to put it all in Faraday cages, especially these days when there's no longer a Soviet Union that's likely to nuke the US. And the Bell System divestiture meant that a lot of the interconnections between local telco switches were no longer available to act as backups for the now-multiple long-distance companies, but the switching logic was starting to get smarter so there were more option for rerouting traffic than with the older dumber switches. Lots of change, and then all this Internet stuff happened.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:1970s Solar Flare Telco Cable Crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The poster above got modded down, but that doesn't change that they had a point: Faraday cages are only good for fast timescale magnetic field changes, and only when you put it around the part of the circuit that is acting like an antenna. If your source of problems are the miles of power lines or outdated copper communication lines, a Faraday cage around the switch gear isn't going to do anything, and it is impractical to build a Faraday cage around the power lines, especially if they use ground return.

      This is even a major issue for more mundane uses of Faraday cages, as you have to be very careful of all your connections in and out of the cage. Even if you are dealing with signals that the cage normally could stop, e.g. kHz to GHz signals, your connections to the outside world can carry noise signals in and even re-radiate them. Although that is kind of moot for a millihertz signal that would require a meter thick copper Faraday cage to block in the first place (better off with mu-metal DC magnetic field type protection).

    2. Re:1970s Solar Flare Telco Cable Crash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and you're not going to put it all in Faraday cages

      Last time I visited my local exchange, it already was, accidentally at least. All the telco gear was in side a chainlink tagout/lockout cage and the AC and DC PDUs were in two separate lockout cages.

      I think there might be another reason for the cage, like reducing EMI to the neighbors, IANATE, IAANE, but whatever the reason, this was all in a nice chainlink cage, which the nature of an exchange, had to be extremely well grounded for safety.

    3. Re:1970s Solar Flare Telco Cable Crash by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Lots and lots of Hinky meter overload from this post. EMP and solar flares/geomagnetic storms are just not the same thing.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    4. Re:1970s Solar Flare Telco Cable Crash by billstewart · · Score: 1

      Chainlink fence isn't even remotely a Faraday cage. (We were actually wondering if the chainlink security fence and metal modular walls at the lab's original location would be good enough, until the security director's pager went off when we were having a meeting about the new regs we'd have to meet :-) It might be good enough for really low frequencies, but that's about it.

      You can deal with EMP transients and medium-high frequency signals on the power lines by using good enough filters, similar to what you'd use for lightning, and these days you're going to use fiber for any long-haul data (for my lab, that meant modems, outside the cage, connected by RS232-over-fiber :-) And yes, stopping all the leaks takes a lot of attention.

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    5. Re:1970s Solar Flare Telco Cable Crash by billstewart · · Score: 1

      Yes. That's why we had Real Physicists in the department, including a guy with a PhD in lightning.

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  24. Feds Have a Plan For Catastrophic Solar Flares by edittard · · Score: 1

    What the hell are they intending to do with them?

    --
    At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    1. Re:Feds Have a Plan For Catastrophic Solar Flares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there are a whole new generation of FEMA trailers, and they can allow the flares to reside there for 90 days and give them cash cards for essential supplies. After that, the flares are on their own.

  25. But is it 12 percent of a plan? by sirwired · · Score: 1

    Peter Quill: I have a plan.
    Rocket Raccoon: You've got a plan? Okay, first of all, you're copying me from when I said I had a plan.
    Peter Quill: I'm not copying you, I have a plan, that's not that unique of a thing to say.
    Rocket Raccoon: And secondly, I don't think you even have a plan.
    Peter Quill: I have part of a plan.
    Drax the Destroyer: What percentage of a plan do you have?
    Gamora: You don't get to ask questions after the nonsense you pulled on Knowhere!
    Drax the Destroyer: I just saved Quill!
    Peter Quill: We've already established that you destroying the ship I'm on is not saving me!
    Drax the Destroyer: When did we establish that?
    Peter Quill: Like three seconds ago!
    Drax the Destroyer: Well I wasn't listening then, I was thinking of something else...
    Rocket Raccoon: She's right, you don't get an opinion... What percentage?
    Peter Quill: I dunno... Twelve percent?
    Rocket Raccoon: Twelve percent?
    [starts laughing]
    Peter Quill: That's a fake laugh.
    Rocket Raccoon: It's real!
    Peter Quill: Totally fake!
    Rocket Raccoon: That is the most real, authentic, hysterical laugh of my entire life because THAT IS NOT A PLAN!
    Gamora: It's barely a concept.
    Peter Quill: [to Gamora] You're taking their side?
    Groot: I am Groot.
    Rocket Raccoon: So what, "It's better than eleven percent!" What the hell does that have to do with anything?

  26. Panic buying by Peter+(Professor)+Fo · · Score: 1

    If news leaks out before the event there will be Panic Buying which will turn a few hours of physical disruption with say a 10% overall infrastructure failures for a few days, into a maelstrom of stockpile madness. How will the repair trucks get their fuel when it's all been bought by consumers?

    The telecoms used by telecoms repairers to order parts etc is a 'how does the snowplough driver get to work' problem.

  27. This is the plan (TOP SECRET) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First, all the politicians will be taken to their top secret bunker, stocked with food and supplies enough to last 100 years.

    Second, you are screwed.

    Any questions?

  28. Main breaker isn't foolproof by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people have found out when backfeeding their house (illegally) from a generator during an outage the main breaker doesn't always disconnect you from the grid. They can fail-to-closed [without notice] or be bypassed by a PDO (previous dumb...liquient owner).

  29. "party like theres no tomorrow" by peter303 · · Score: 1

    The mother of all riots like in Asimovs Nightfall.

  30. Re: by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new Jewish Overlords.

    --
    This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
  31. Feds have a plan by rcamans · · Score: 1

    The feds have always had a plan. It's crawl into a bunker and let everyone else die. It's called stick head in sand and hold their breath. It's called name-call the bearer of bad news. It's called BS their way out of the discussion. It's called lie like a big dog. It's called oo oo a new way to scam money to our friends. You actually believe people who paid 43 million dollars for a gas station in Afghanistan? So what's new?

    --
    wake up and hold your nose
  32. My plan for surviving a catastrophic solar flare.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Unplug everything. (Inc the power stations if possible.)

    2. Hunker down somewhere safe until it passes.

    3. Come back out.

    4. Check power.

    5. Plug everything back in. To a generator if the mains are fried.

    6. Move on with life.

    Simple isn't it? Maybe the USG should try something similiar. Most of the issues with solar flares and EMPs are due to long distance power lines absorbing radiated energy and sending a surge through anything connected. Take those lines out of the equation in the event of either and the majority of equipment will be safe. This isn't rocket science after all, it's electrical engineering :)

  33. Yes, Ham radio by Baruch+Atta · · Score: 1

    Ham Radio will save us all. Not. Well, at least, I have a full boat anchor station (all vacuum state - tubes) which should survive an event. The problem is that the station hardly survives a single use, when I have to go and find out what broke again. But that is me. What about everyone else? And what about food and water? Oh well.

    --
    You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.
  34. And there I was concerned by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That /. would lose one of it's favourite tropes! Nopes, The Carrington Event Part 2 is still coming and civilization is doomed, DOOMED I tell you!!

  35. Jew scum - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Idiot scum jew, pretending you're not a jew yourself, spewing bs so dupes keep sitting on their asses as your scum tribe sets up the cull here and 'wireless' control those leftover from your nano chip chemtrails and viruses. Only a slobbering scum jew 'welcomes' more mass destruction, mass torture murder by the scum jew tribe. Who is behnd fraud 'govt', bogus 'courts', 'wikimedia', Who are the millions behind the lies, the mass schemes and mass murder. liar 'media', liar 'scientists' 'dokters' 80% fraud 'lawyers' 'judges' are Not nordic whites they are 'white' skin ashkenazi JEW race. Big med small 'corporations', media , fake 'alternative media', millions of websites distraction so dupes waste time, millions of jew trolls on the web paid by their bogus 'govt' and 'holocaust' fraud, many posts are computer generated or otherwise jew trolls. They 'score' up useless jabber posts fake 'arguments' so dupes sit 'reading' but know nothing that matters. Half these threads they set so hide even 'hidden comment' note so you don't realize to click 'load all comments'. The fraud 'government' is jews, fraud 'federal reserve', 'nsa', 'dhs' fraud 'wars', 'bailouts', fraud 'states', all the 'corporations', millions in the tribe, they made up the idiot phrase 'conspiracy theory' to cover up, weak idiots parrot it. They front all the fake 'activist' groups, 'eff' 'aclu' fake 'nazi' groups, even fake anarchist ron / 'rand' 'paul' named for 'ayn rand' real name rosenbaum, jew fake anarchist to subvert true anarchism freedom. The jews are anarchists in a tribe, hide behind their bogus 'government' and fake 'law' while they kill, dupes fail to be natural anarchist, make tribes, take back the weapons and power companies and all they stole, do what it takes to stop their tribe. All the 'candidates' 'fed' 'state' 'city', all frauds and they know they are frauds. Trump married two jews, all of them frauds to distract this last while they setup your mass murder after killing over one billion people and You paid for their world takeover. Now they don't need you anymore.
    Look at 'washington' face on the dollar, jew, bogus 'founders' didn’t 'found' anything, all jew cons in the tribe. The so-called 'constitution' is a fraud. They made up the bogus 'government' and 'states' to 'tax' dupes to get themselves trillions in weapons while making up 'social' schemes so dupes pay for parasites who then 'vote' for more jew 'government'. http://jim.com/treason.htm copy page, ignore rest of site, sites bait with L. Spooner then use other bs to distract from the fact that we are free. All 'law' is based on contract between men. There is no other law. Any other claim of 'law' is but cons making up fraud papers to dictate 'laws' to 'tax' and kill you.
    It was jews - 'who brought the slaves to america' by walter white, archive.org . The jews brought and owned most of them, and when the southerners were seceding to be free of bogus jew 'government', the jews started screeching 'free the slaves' to get scum idiot northerners to slaughter their southern racial kin who were trying to be free of the jew. The jews knew the scheme and left before the slaughter of the southerners, and after the killing went back to their properties, 'hired' back their slaves, and more jew 'carpetbaggers' swarmed in and took over the dead southerners property. They made up bogus 'public skools' to brainwash idiot's children and dupes allowed it.
    There was No 'jew holocaust'. The only holocaust was the jew 'allies' mass murder of Germans at Dresden. Their fraud 'war two' jews took over europe using 'usa' and 'british' scum 'troops'. Only 280k people died in the Labor camps and that was from natural causes. Total number of nordic whites dead, 20 million, 'following' jew Lies, ameriscums also paid for the scum jew 'bolshevik' slaughter of over 100 million nordic white russians ukraines poles from 1920's into the 1970's paid for in the scum jew roosenfelt / stalin 'lend lease' and 'cold war' hoax fraud. Financed jew 'russia' military, along with jew 'usa' bogus weapons. It's al

    1. Re:Jew scum - by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      Aww! What a nice thing to say! You're so sweet!

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    2. Re:Jew scum - by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      The really interesting thing that never fails to amuse me is how important people like you are to the success of the Jewish World Domination plan. Without people such as yourselves that shout the conspiracy everywhere and discredit the whole notion of a International Zionist Conspiracy, it would be much more likely that people would believe such a conspiracy exists.

      I'm sure the Head Jew will be pinning a medal to you when they achieve final victory.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    3. Re:Jew scum - by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      You did it! You got him to post ALL the conspiracy theories (even contrails, lol) AND tie them all to jews.

    4. Re:Jew scum - by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      Jewtroll tears are delicious! They're almost as tasty as fagtroll tears.

      Really, he made it too easy. He practically did my job for me. The HeadJew will be promoting me soon for sure! I guess now that this minion has served his purpose, it's time to file form JEW-WorldDom-NP-837 and have his nanoparticles activated and erase his memory.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    5. Re:Jew scum - by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Really, he made it too easy. He practically did my job for me. The HeadJew will be promoting me soon for sure! I guess now that this minion has served his purpose, it's time to file form JEW-WorldDom-NP-837 and have his nanoparticles activated and erase his memory.

      Man, I've really been missing out! Now I really want to meet the HeadJew. I had no idea those guys got so much STUFF done! I mean, damn. They really are the Master Race.

  36. bs- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'apocolypse' meme, using the bogus 'jeesus' jew fraud angle, the 'zombie' shit because that's the chemtrail virus coming, vague 'nations rise and fall' bs as if it's not the scum jew tribe behind all those 'falls' as the tribe grabs all the world property and resources. After the jew tribe made up the scum 'jeesus' and 'mohammed' bs to control other races and use for fraud 'wars', then, the 'black death' jews poisoned the wells in Europe and killed Half of all nordic whites, their scum plans went on full force, and even though they've been booted out of over a hundred forty countries, ignorant suicidal idiots continued to buy the jew bs snivel act and slime back in. The fraud 'govt' jew tribe got away with making up here in fraud name 'america' is because other races, nordic whites, who actually did the work stupidly bought lies and schemes,'tax', 'banking', 'war' after 'war', now, they will either get off their ass and stop you and your scum chemtrails and mass assaults and cull plans and take back the weapons and power and water and farms and do away with your scum once and for all, or they will be killed.

    -

  37. Coren22 proven a LYING punk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "APK doesn't think that DNS servers are worth running and seems to believe that somehow Microsoft Active Directory can run without DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015 @12:58PM (#50811615)

    Where'd I say AD will run minus DNS Coren22? I've said AD = internal network DNS dependent as far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    (Searching this in BOLD "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers!" referring to OpenDNS suggestions for those using AD stupid in the POSTS BEFORE IT in my security guides for users (geared to stand alone single machines no less), & right there on that page proves it stupid - so even if you posted as myself someplace here on /. "impersonating me", I have your ass NOW, shithead!)

    I've also stated MANY TIMES I use remote DNS in OpenDNS @ home (but not @ work on AD networks & exchange/outlook in the free model does NOT work with AD specifically you lying little imbecile).

    I also don't hardcode in "every site there is under the sun" is why, so I have to use DNS, but OpenDNS & rarely.

    I also RARELY MISS A LOOKUP since I put where I spend a good 95++% of my time online in my favorite sites into hosts @ the TOP of hosts for utmost LOCAL FASTER RESOLUTION SPEEDS and more reliability vs. Open DNS (not OpenDNS) resolvers being abused, Kaminsky redirect poisoned DNS servers (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS are not proofed against to this very day even though a patch exists which OpenDNS uses), rogue DNS servers, and yes ROUTERS with bushwhacked by malware DNS settings (happening a LOT lately).

    Hardcodes in hosts are faster than remote DNS, waste less resources than local dns in power, cpu cycles, RAM, & other I/O by FAR considering ALL THE PARTS of such a setup in programs, data, I/O, & power (especially if setup as a separate machine). Most people out there don't run a home LAN. They have single systems.

    APK

    P.S.=> You're a disgusting butthurt liar... apk

  38. Coren22 "security guru" wannabe fails security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YOU say "hosts=bad" (but they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitch on admin privelege to UPDATE vs. threats:

    "So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

    Hypocrite - You use admin priv admitting it

    &

    How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?

    ---

    "Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

    You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!

    FACT:

    Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!

    ---

    Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET says hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

    Oliver Day (Symantec) does-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts hosts & recommends my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    ---

    * HOW MANY SECURITY PROS DO I NEED TO KNOCK THE CHOCOLATE OUTTA YOU?

    ---

    Those security pros INCLUDE me: I work w/ guys from malwarebytes' hpHosts on a regular basis!

    I've professionally worked for decades as a combined domain-wide network admin & software engineer since 1994 (Even showing you HOW to migrate a hosts across an enterprise-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

    I've also been securing computers + WRITING GUIDES using CIS Tool (who took fixes from me http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - bonus) http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...

    You told me you learn from guides?

    I write good ones that MILLIONS USE & was PAID FOR IT http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn...

    + WARES TO PROTECT USERS that are endorsed & hosted by security pros -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    You did all that? No!

    (& that's ONLY a SMALL part of what I could put out)

    APK

    P.S.=> You're all TALK -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & a "ne'er-do-well" in security... apk

  39. scum jew- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My post and mass of links beats the shit out of your scum jew 'conspiracy theory' worn out meme, made up to exactly hide your mass robbing mass child raping mass murdering scum tribe. Your idiot 'zionist' meme is also a load of shit. You jews are a RACE. Your idiot 'zionist' bs to redirect dupes so they don't realize we can Recognize you JEWS by your FACES. Once dupes start looking at photos of all your 'media' scum and 'corporations' and fraud 'govt' scum then they see Who is behind the assaults, and all of you do your part in the scheme, from the scum jews in 'govt' 'media' to that 'holo' fraud sniveling 'neighbor'. Now your scum nano chip chemtrails already implanted everyone, you're all ready for the virus cull race by race to start so you scum can finish your scheme. Idiots ignored it all and paid 'tax' to kill all over the world in your scum fraud 'wars' for your takeover. Your distraction slobber proves you jews distract so your final mass cull plans finish off. If idiots don't get off their asses they die.

    - others, you do not see posts like mine often, you did not earn the information, get off you asses and use it. Get OFF the web, man up woman up meet Real people make your own tribes -

  40. Jew bs - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scum jew, I spit in your scum jew rat face, got that scum jew. You spew your slime the world over, you exploded the mass of parasites the world over to destroy my race, you poisoned half my race in the 'black death' you and your parasites shit your greasy scum jew turd pollution and jew monsanto and chemical scum over the entire world You destroy the planet and enviro with your mass of parasites and scum corporations and mass immigration the same time you slobber 'be green' bullshit, your fraud 'wars' your mass ripoff 'holo' fraud' you rape and butcher masses of children, you jew scum females fraud snivel act, you are scum, you are rat face pieces of shit that should be exterminated as you exterminate others. You're idiot plans are a piece of shit spewed out by morons. Your scum tribe made up the fraud 'jeezus' shit so idiots swallow 'be sweet'' 'turn the other cheek' 'love yer enemy' suicide bullshit instead of use natural anarchism violence and make tribes to stop your scum. Your weak 'nice' bullshit brainwashing is shit under my boots.
    Fuck off scum cunt child raping mass murdering chemtrail spraying jew.

    -others, stop eating scum jew 'be nice' brainwashing, get off your ass, make your own tribes or you are going to DIE. Chemtrail Virus -

  41. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    - in my first post above I said go to the other thread in it for the mass information and links, instead, here it is. Though in addition to the info below, go to this thread,
    http://science.slashdot.org/story/15/11/01/083219/nasa-study-shows-net-gains-for-antarctic-ice
    click show all comments and slide bar over, see 'jew' post near top, in my post there is a note to use to hand out to others. I have a lot of experience in this do not take it for granted. Mass of Idiots have become 'trained' juveniles expecting to finger an idiot 'phone' as if that makes any difference. You have Zero power right now. You have no tribe. If you fail to get serious and make your own tribes and do everything it takes then you will be slaughtered by the jews. Fact. On using notes to meet others, you can't put too much on them but has to be enough to show the dire situation by the scum jews. The note is so you can meet real people. You can use the web or postal mail to send the mass of other links to people, but other than that get the fck Off the web. There is no 'easy way out', your breeders and their breeders and their breeders ignored it all too long. I've given you info tools you didn't earn. Respect it, use notes, get off your ass, meet others, make tribes, If you don't bother then you deserve to die and will die.

    The millions behind fraud 'government' fraud 'states', liar 'media', liar 'scientists' 'dokters' 80% fraud 'lawyers' 'judges' are Not nordic whites they are 'white' skin ashkenazi JEW race, those who aren't jews are smiley liar scum frauds who work for the jew not you. They are ALL in on your murder. 'corporations', media , fake 'alternative media', millions of websites distraction, millions of jew trolls on the web paid by their bogus 'govt' and 'holocaust' fraud, 90% of all web posts are computer generated or jew trolls. They 'score' up useless jabber posts fake 'arguments' so dupes sit 'reading' but know nothing that matters. The fraud 'government' is jews, fraud 'federal reserve', 'nsa', 'dhs' fraud 'wars', 'bailouts', fraud 'states', all the 'corporations', millions in the tribe, they made up the idiot phrase 'conspiracy theory' to cover up, weak idiots parrot it. They front all the fake 'activist' groups, 'eff' 'aclu' fake 'nazi' groups, even fake anarchist ron / 'rand' 'paul' named for 'ayn rand' real name rosenbaum, jew fake anarchist to subvert true anarchism freedom. The jews are anarchists in a tribe, hide behind their bogus 'government' and fake 'law' while they kill, dupes fail to be natural anarchist, make tribes, take back the weapons and power companies and all they stole, do what it takes to stop their tribe. All the 'candidates' 'fed' 'state' 'city', all frauds and they know they are frauds. Trump married two racial jews, all of them frauds to distract this last while they setup your mass murder after killing over one billion people and You paid for their world takeover.
    Look at 'washington' face on the dollar, jew, bogus 'founders' didn’t 'found' anything, all jew cons in the tribe. The so-called 'constitution' is a fraud. They made up the bogus 'government' and 'states' to 'tax' dupes to get themselves trillions in weapons while making up 'social' schemes so dupes pay for parasites who then 'vote' for more jew 'government'. http://jim.com/treason.htm copy page, ignore rest of site, sites bait with L. Spooner then use other bs to distract from the fact that we are free. All 'law' is based on contract between men. There is no other law. Any other claim of 'law' is but cons making up fraud papers to dictate 'laws' to 'tax' and kill you.
    It was jews - 'who brought the slaves to america' by walter white, archive.org . The jews brought and owned most of them, and when the southerners were seceding to be free of bogus jew 'government', the jews started screeching 'free the slaves' to get scum idiot northerners to slaughter their southern racial kin who were trying to be free of the jew. The jews knew the scheme and left before the slaughter of the southerners, and after the killing went

  42. Coren22's desperation, lies, & libel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    False positive: I've wrote 'em long ago, no response vs. 60++ REPUTABLE sources (not nobodies) below that fries you Coren22!

    Is that YOUR fake site for MORE LIES Coren22?

    Lying about me LIKE YOU DID HERE punk? -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... ??

    ---

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

    &

    It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    APK

    P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:

    "his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

    "I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

    "APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

    "his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

  43. bs- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'lack of civilization' double twist jew bs. mocking those who don't just live hand to mouth like most idiots and parasites the jews 'trained' for suicide. But, 'preppers' have also been fooled by the jew, being 'prepared' so you're not a weak scum is part of LIFE, on the other hand the 'prepare' and 'prepper' bs has been used by the jews to dupe idiots to just 'prepare' so people don't Do anything to STOP them. Being 'prepared' doesn't Do Anything to STOP the scum jew mass murdering tribe it does Nothing to STOP mass immigration or the CHEMTRAILS which is how they jews will mass slaughter by race in this territory.

    Instead of stocking up for six months while making tribes to start cleaning the shit out this territory, people re just 'preparing' and otherwise sitting, for suicide. Get off your ass. Make tribes.
    - see 'jew' posts further up -

  44. jew distraction- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your say-nothing bs slobber is a zero. The mass of facts and links are below in the 'scum jew' post. Your scum jew 'contrails' meme is bullshit. Tens of millions now know we are being sprayed by your CHEMTRAILS but unfortunately since your scum tribe members put up most of the chemtrail sites and remove posts exposing your tribe most don't realize your mass murdering tribe is behind the spraying and what is in it. In my posts below I specify that and your mass murder history and plans now for cull in the fraud jew named 'u s a'.

    - others see 'scum jew' post below. You would not find the information and links If I didn't give them to you, copy to re read, give links to others, hand out notes, make your own tribes -

    1. Re: jew distraction- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're trolling wrong. You write too much in reply to short comments, meaning you're effectively trolling yourself or getting counter-trolled too easily.

    2. Re: jew distraction- by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      Wtf man... do I go throwing rocks into your fishing hole???

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    3. Re: jew distraction- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes.

    4. Re: jew distraction- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'aw' bullshit jew. the supremacist jew expects everyone to be 'nice' while the jew tribe sprays everyone for mass murders. rat face jew snivel bs. reply for your bullshit 'aw so nice' bs is below. that is if the scum jews don't move my posts. fck off.

  45. bs scum jews - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The scum jew pile on only proves what I've posted. You scum jews move my posts around, spew your bullshit to distract. 'aw nice thing to say' scum jew fake snivel bs. I spit in your scum jew rat face, got that scum jew. You spew your slime the world over, you exploded the mass of parasites the world over to destroy my race, you poisoned half my race in the 'black death' you and your parasites shit your greasy scum jew turd pollution and jew monsanto and chemical scum over the entire world You destroy the planet and enviro with your mass of parasites and scum corporations and mass immigration the same time you slobber 'be green' bullshit, your fraud 'wars' your mass ripoff 'holo' fraud' you rape and butcher masses of children, you jew scum females fraud snivel act, you are scum, you are rat face pieces of shit that should be exterminated as you exterminate others. You're idiot plans are a piece of shit spewed out by morons. Your scum tribe made up the fraud 'jeezus' shit so idiots swallow 'be sweet'' 'turn the other cheek' 'love yer enemy' suicide bullshit instead of use natural anarchism violence and make tribes to stop your scum. Your weak 'nice' bullshit brainwashing is shit under my boots.
    Fuck off scum cunt child raping mass murdering chemtrail spraying jew.

    -others, stop eating scum jew 'be nice' brainwashing, COPY my posts to re read give links to others, get off your ass, hand out notes, make your own tribes or you are going to DIE. Chemtrail Virus -