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SETI Fails To Detect Signals Coming From KIC 8462852 (examiner.com)
MarkWhittington writes: Rare excitement spread through the scientific community and the media when data from the Kepler Space Telescope indicated something strange going on around a star 1,500 light years away called KIC 8462852. An analysis of the pattern of light coming from the star suggested that a swarm of smaller objects was orbiting the planet. Scientists narrowed down the possible explanations for the data to either a swarm of comets or a group of alien megastructures. According to a story in Space Daily, an examination of KIC 8462852 by SETI, using the Allen Telescope Array, has failed to find any evidence that ET exists around that particular star.
If ET were there, couldn't there be other E-M methods that would attenuate before reaching earth? Not saying there are beings there, but just because radio waves aren't there doesn't mean they aren't.
"Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
Are SETI looking in the same place at the same point the spectrum as the experiment that detected this phenomenon?
No.
There is no one else out there. Time is big. Really big. The chances of two civilizations existing concurrently is extremely extremely low. Think about it: our modern civilization has lasted a very short time. Even if our civilization lasts another 500 years (doubtful), the chances that another civilization will exist in that same timeframe is extremely unlikely.
I figure they should try to fight to be relevant, but they are very likely not going to find anything through radio with sufficiently advanced technology.
Just how is SETI not finding a signal in anyway shape or form news ?
Even we are moving from lossy radio signals into lossless signals. And we have only been broadcasting shit for 100 years or so.
If ET were there, couldn't there be other E-M methods that would attenuate before reaching earth? Not saying there are beings there, but just because radio waves aren't there doesn't mean they aren't.
If ET were there, transmitting on RF with the same power we use for radio/TV signals - our detectors aren't even good enough to hear it over noise.
Integrated Circuits embodying the quantum effects needed to make quantum computers are nearing commercial availability.
Spooky action at a distance has more or less been proven to be microminatue t-space or s-space worm holes .. so particle interconnectedness without EM fields is about to become common place.. and a lot more reliable than propagation phenomena.
We tend to see everything in terms of what we know "right now" and can't seem to move beyond and accept we will know more later...
A civilization cable of planetary or stellar construction projects would almost certainly have communications at the Speed of Inflation (I) far faster than the Speed of Light (C) so I think we're looking down a dark alley.
In other news, I recently discovered my car wouldn't start. I've narrowed it down to two possible explanations: either the battery is dead or my cat has telepathic powers and doesn't want me to leave. I have been unable to find evidence of my cat's telepathic powers. Just thought you'd like to know.
M
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Enough searching and false alarms already - it's about time someone found someone else to talk to out there. Way too much empty space.
If ET were there, transmitting on RF with the same power we use for radio/TV signals - our detectors aren't even good enough to hear it over noise.
From what I understand it's primarily going to pick up military radar or intentional "pings", signal broadcast is very weak compared to radars trying to detect stealth aircraft that is diverting 99%+ of the signal away from the source. There's not really any reason to send radio/TV signals with that power and for information efficiency we're going to encode them so they're almost indistinguishable from noise anyway. The latter is obviously the best since they're the only ones likely to have any information content we could positively identify. So at least for our current level of technology they have to want to be found.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Because there's a difference between not finding it after checking and not finding it after not-checking...?
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
First off SETI is incapable of discerning signals from noise at >200 LY's away. Secondly, aliens with Dyson Swarms are in now way communicating with crappy, inefficient radiowaves. They are likely using laser based communication or something even more exotic.
I really do hope the next look at 2017 reveals even greater light fluctuation, proving definitively an alien megastructure. Hopefully they lend over some scientist cause our current crop aren't meeting specification.
tl;dr: They saw something funny there at high frequencies. So it's news that they don't see anything funny at lower frequencies.
That's what the aliens want us to think. Bastards.
Exactly. I would imagine any species sufficiently advanced to do planetary and solar system engineering, probably has moved beyond EM communications. In fact, I really feel that the theory that advanced civilizations will only use radio for a fairly narrow period before moving to other means of communications really means SETI is doomed. That window is probably only a few hundred years, and considering that anything but a very directed high powered signal is likely to dissipate within a few light years of the planet of origin, it's the wrong approach. We could be surrounded by civilizations at our level of development within a few thousand light year window and never hear a single signal from them, and visa versa.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I spent years donating my computing time to SETI, when I started to investigate how they did what they did and alien life on my own.
First and foremost - SETI leverages Radio telescopes for discovery of life on other planets.
Most human life - is visually and auditory in nature - so when I started asking questions such as 'why are they looking for radio communications and radio evidence of life, when there's a high probability that life on other planets which is like us may have gone down different developmental paths?
How do I put this in English. Radio is an imagined construct created through a collective agreement our population has with our reality.
Now what's to say - even remotely suggest - that life on other planets may have the same thought on reality, let alone have invented or messed with radio waves?
I know, I know the argument. There's certain imprints of civilization that should be searchable via radio astronomy, it draws a picture of the cosmos.
That's not entirely true.
It draws a picture based on our understanding of the universe. But if our collective understanding of the universe is myopic. Then SETI is the equivalent of looking for a needle in a haystack with a remote controlled robot while blindfolded.
Sorry. I don't trust anything SETI has to say anymore.
Logic suggests we need to look for evidence of visual and auditory beings leveraging more than just radio waves.
Exactly. Spitzer is capable of detecting it as a very faint signal, knowing that the actual source is a star. If they are using EM communication, the prower is probably orders of magnitude smaller than the star emission itself. Good luck, catching that with sufficient SNR in the radio domain...
Correct, obviously the shark people of KIC 8462852 would use frickin lasers!
To be fair, failure to detect radio signals isn't assuming other forms of signals. It is a failure to detect.
We have never had ANY reason to assume aliens of any kind use radio as we know it. Even among the life forms on Earth, many of which are very closely related to us, absolutely NONE of them have developed or discovered radio except humans. So therefore, we already know radio happens 1 in some billions of species even when they are our close relatives.
Among aliens unlikely to be anything like us, we have to assume that they may never have found radio, or use it differently. SETI essentially looks out into space looking to find ourselves. This is just ludicrous. What little we know about space and other planets tells us the universe is incredibly diverse. We aren't going to find another US out there. So no wonder they have always failed.
Sig for hire.
For the book "Yet a completely separate 13 things that don't make sense.. again".
...but it does make it more likely.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
If it's a Dyson Sphere, would radio waves pass through it? If not, then this tells us nothing.
Just how is SETI not finding a signal in anyway shape or form news ?
Following the scientific method a negative result is an equally valid result ;)
Lossless? there is no such thing. Even in fiber you need signal boosters. Anything propagating in space is attenuated with the inverse square law, it is conservation of energy.
The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
Perhaps he meant lossless communication protocols over noisy channels. (Which has nothing to do with radio waves vs X, of course, so I agree with you.)
If your trying to communicate with a ET then why do we think they are using radio waves of some kind? If you take into account any of the UFO close encounters on Earth and have a open mind about them. I don't think any of them have given any kind of evidence of using radio waves. Most close encounters such as abductions seem to use telepathy to communicate. Any of the UFO sightings have never to my recall talk about picking up any kind of strange communications.
In essence the ideal that ET's use the same forms as we do for communication is simply having a closed mind and assumes we as humans have the best form of communication. Its almost like Seti searching Facebook for a ET profile? Its about that dumb.
Two different types of radio signals were sought:
(1) Narrow-band signals, of order 1 Hz in width, such as would be generated as a "hailing signal" for societies wishing to announce their presence.
This is the type of signal most frequently looked for by radio SETI experiments.
(2) Broad-band signals that might be due to beamed propulsion within this star system.
If astroengineering projects are really underway in the vicinity of KIC 8462852, one might reasonably expect the presence of spacecraft to service this activity.
If these craft are propelled by intense microwave beams, some of that energy might manifest itself as broad-band radio leakage.
They are looking for possible "engine noise" too.
So far... well... nothing.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Come in..., come in please..., Mother Star KIC 8462852. Those of us in the Earth-planet system recently had a close one. Apparently, the thought implants we used on their presidential candidates to make them crazy wasn't enough to keep the humans distracted, and the primitive humans almost deduced where we came from. Nonetheless, we assure you they *are* primitive. When we studied something referred to as TFA, it implied "a level approaching 1027 watts" of radiated power was substantial.
(||) Nehmo (||)
Jesus, are you kidding? This is last week's story. You think people on Slashdot don't know this already??
This. I honestly don't see how SETI can survive.
Most alien species you can think of will barely use radio for that long a period.
Eventually we will figure out a way to use neutrinos for communication.
MAYBE we figure out a way to use quantum entanglement.
Maybe there is some other-worldly communication method we haven't even begun to think about yet, like "sub-space", gravity waves or something else.
Even if they were using satellites in space, they'd be directional and not particularly high-powered.
Space itself is generally not even that empty either. And there is a LOT of it between here and other planets. That signal is going to get destroyed just by the ratio of particles across that distance. It will basically become a brick wall if you shrink it down.
And that is just on interference from particles, the signal is going to spread out and lose power over time. Doesn't matter how straight a laser you produce, it still has to travel across space and space itself isn't nothing, it is just less than air.
Long-distance communication like this will almost certainly have to be x-ray or above levels of communication, and most likely on the scale of an average moon to be heard at any reasonable distances.
I think he meant "non-leaking to space RF" signals (i.e. fiber optic cables). In other words, communication power is not 'lost' to space, therefore detectable by aliens.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Just how is SETI not finding a signal in anyway shape or form news ?
Because it's proof that the aliens of KIC 8462852 have superior signal masking technologies.
Why are we even assuming that they'd be reliant on E-M technology? If they are building a Dyson sphere isn't it possible they've moved to something more exotic. I mean by their standards we're still using two tin cans and a piece of string
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Well SETI didn't say they weren't there, they just said they haven't found any evidence of somebody being there. Since SETI only checks radio spectrum signals - that lack of proof is limited to that domain.
Unfortunately we really don't have much technology for doing any other kind of looking right now, nor the funding to develop any, nor the political will to supply the funding.
Who knows what we may have missed (not just with this case but in the 20-odd years since SETI lost it's original budget), because we weren't willing to listen a little harder ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
They are probably using sub-space communications......once we invent devices that work in that domain, we will probably pick up all kinds of ET chatter! ;)
You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
They've been using your computer to mine bitcoins before they were cool (or even real).
Also, laser communications is being investigated. That type of communication wouldn't even be noticeable at 1500 LY.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)
It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
+
Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...
&
More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...
---
MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...
APK
P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:
"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)
"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)
"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)
"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)
... apk
Coren22 says "hosts=bad" (they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitches on admin priv to UPDATE vs. threats
"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)
& admits using admin priv himself
+
How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?
---
"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)
You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!
FACT:
Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!
APK
P.S.=> Lastly - Coren22, there is a CURE for your "outism" due to your retarded by assburgers clearly defective brain (lol) - quit making childish sigs about me & sockpuppet accounts as well as telling lies about me - I'll stop OUTING you signature boy troll that you are... apk
To my mind, the search for life would be better spent on ever better optical telescopes. We can already "sniff" the atmospheres of exoplanets to some extent, and we're probably within a few decades of being able to directly image significant features of Earth-sized planets, not to mention finding evidence of at least photosynthesizing life (which would almost certainly infer a complex biosphere on such a planet).
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If he did, then he's pretty stupid, because we still broadcast plenty of RF for other purposes beyond commnications. Radar signals for example.
See subject: They've "got down" what they *think* are signalling worlds indicative of civilization w/ technology we might actually learn from (the way we think communication should be & others here have rightly pointed out as a weakness in our methods, HOW WE THINK, not necessarily how alien beings might - ADDING THAT since my last post was downmoderated by my stalking trolling fans for no good reason last time I posted this, as usual as it's their only effete 'weapon' vs. facts which I override easily via unlimited ac posting I do -> http://science.slashdot.org/co... ) & they're now looking @ the infrared spectrum for worlds in the 'habitable zone' for life like ours (liquid water via spectography iirc etc.) - so, this may help one day as data for "stellar cartography" by COMBINING the worlds that fit BOTH CRITERIA...
* It's a BIG universe & shaving down the possibles for the cosmic submariners (lol) would be a BIG help I would think!
APK
P.S.=> I did this from 1999-2004 iirc for "Team MICROSOFT" as username AlecStaar - & that was what kept me in the game essentially... I'd like to contribute if possible (had a few 'spikes' in the data I processed, & it'd be nice to know that one day, it may lead to "earth 2")... apk
See subject & links where I tried to make peace - says it all w/ proof of it from his trolling "signature boy" mouth http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & here too http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
(I've discovered that trying to make peace with a mental retard due to assbergers & OUTISM is a difficult thing & largely apparently unachievable...)
APK
P.S.=> You brought it on yourself Coren22, nobody else - you sow the wind? Here comes the whirlwind, & all your sockpuppets, signatures, & fellow trolls can't stop it (lol, you're 'outta bullets' in downmods) - so "the beatings will continue" until you stop your immature childish signature bs... apk
See subject: Says it all & this link, dismantling him point-by-"so-called 'point'" of his publicly http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
(Coren22, I tried to give you a chance, 3x no less - you're a fool: You mistake mercy for weakness, like cretin brutes in the streets do... you paid the price!)
APK
P.S.=> I notice you stopped responding there - "Gosh, golly gee - why's that?" (not) - but I expect you'll TRY some more b.s. as that's all "your kind" (trolls) understand - crap like downmodding my posts or ac troll me!
(Which you & your sockpuppets OR fellow trolls have here already NOW TELLING OTHERS TO TROLL ME BY UNIDENTIFIABLE AC POSTS http://slashdot.org/comments.p... as I've torn you ALL up 1 by 1 every time as I have yourself above... you did this, to yourself "signature boy")... apk
Even that use is decreasing.
Look at the mentally deficient abnormal retard rain man autism case attempting to communicate with us!