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China, Russia Try To Hack Australia's Upcoming Submarine Plans

An anonymous reader writes: Chinese and Russian spies have attempted to hack into the top secret details of Australia's future submarines (paywalled), with both Beijing and Moscow believed to have mounted repeated cyber attacks in recent months. One of the companies working on a bid for Australia's new submarine project said it records between 30 and 40 cyberattacks per night.

20 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Shocking! by DaHat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Foreign intelligence agencies trying to learn the specifics of a new military system? I am shocked, shocked!

    The only news here is that there are signs of it, and seemingly attributable ones as well.

    1. Re:Shocking! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The only news here is that there are signs of it

      That isn't news either. My home router gets more than 30-40 "cyber-attacks" per night.

      and seemingly attributable ones as well.

      The "attribution" is just speculation. They have no actual evidence.
      They are just softening up the public for a money-grab to conduct "cyber-warfare".

  2. Internet by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why do they have this kind of stuff where it can be reached from the internet? I don't see why that's necessary. If it's convenient for the designers then it's too damn convenient for your enemies.

    1. Re:Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      In all seriousness, it is not practical to air-gap computer networks anymore. Operating systems need too much connectivity for updates, and commercial software wants to do authenticity checks to make sure that the corporations using it have actually paid for it. On top of that with the world basically standardized on TCP/IP it's not practical to even use alternate protocols to complicate access.

      Actually what updates exactly do you need for a computer that's not on the network at large? Most security updates would be superfluous, and the vast majority of 'fix' updates fix stuff doesn't fix system or program breaking issues for most users, barring those introduced by another update. As for commercial software wanting to phone home, that's easily resolved by NOT choosing such software in the first place.

      It's perfectly practical to air-gap networks if you go in with the mind set of it from the get go.

    2. Re:Internet by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      When you're talking billions of dollars I think it might be possible to bypass the internet. I know I have two computers that never see the internet. Updates are done on one manually and the other never. It's entirely possible still to pass data over a telephone network with a modem. I just think when extreme secrecy is required then extreme actions need to be taken.

    3. Re:Internet by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      +1 for the "convenient for the designers"
      US contractors need links back to their multinationals and mil, global sourcing of US parts and US/UK trained experts.
      Australia could do all the work at a secure site, base, port but that is been blocked by the USA. The problem is the US would then not share its more secure export grade electronics.
      So Australia has to keep its networks wide open to keep US contractors happy and ensure jobs and profits are shared with the US military–industrial complex.
      Think of the US jobs and generational shareholders not getting in on the profits if Australia attempts computer systems itself again or buys EU systems.
      Australia will be shut out of the package of US digital systems and have to create its own database of Soviet, Russian, UK, US, Korean, Japanese and other nations ship and sub profiles in real time again.
      The US will sell, rent, update vital export grade databases only as part of a massive US only contract.
      Australia is also facing pressure to just import a sub design from Japan as a turn key export system that is fully supported by the USA.
      No more "union" mil/gov backed construction jobs in Australia and the US and Japan are very happy.
      The final option for Australia is to consider EU designers and then build in Australia. Great for local jobs and the EU.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  3. Re:Cool paywall, bro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anything that references an article behind a paywall should automatically get rejected.

  4. Really? 30-40/night by guruevi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If China/Russia are actively hacking the joint, I must be running something really interesting because I get about 2000/night from Russia and China on my web servers. This is just some scaremongering from a company that has no IT or an IT without a clue.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:Really? 30-40/night by bobbied · · Score: 2

      If China/Russia are actively hacking the joint, I must be running something really interesting because I get about 2000/night from Russia and China on my web servers. This is just some scaremongering from a company that has no IT or an IT without a clue.

      Or someone with a political ax to grind who's making it all up...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Really? 30-40/night by dpidcoe · · Score: 2

      That's why I wish they defined what a "cyberattack" is. The fact that there were only 40 of them makes me think that they may have limited the definition to "attacks" that are actually meaningful, but it's all pointless speculation without the details.

  5. What Intelligence Agencies Should Be Doing by Assoluto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. This is exactly what intelligence agencies should be doing - investigating rival countries' military capabilities and assessing threats to the nation.

    Meanwhile, what intelligence agencies most definitely shouldn't be doing is mass surveillance of their own people. Intelligence agencies don't exist to suppress descenting opinions. They don't exist to erode freedom. They don't exist to keep the populous inline. The reason they exist to assess external threats to the nation.

    It's a sad state of affairs when China and Russia are setting an example to western agencies on how they should be acting.

    1. Re:What Intelligence Agencies Should Be Doing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Go live in China or Russia if you think it's so great there... Moron...

    2. Re:What Intelligence Agencies Should Be Doing by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      China and Russia absolutely do spy on their own citizens. Where did you discover that they don't?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  6. How do you know when you have the right plans? by hawguy · · Score: 2

    When you steal plans for a multi-billion dollar project, how do you know when you've got the real plans, and when you've got decoy plans that were carefully developed to be plausible, yet incorrect?

  7. only 30 to 40? by tomhath · · Score: 2

    China attacks random IP addresses more than that. Try it for yourself: register a domain, put up a web site, and see how many attempts are made every day, probably in the hundreds.

  8. I wonder, how they count -- and what... by mi · · Score: 2

    between 30 and 40 cyberattacks per night

    I wonder, what these numbers mean because I — without doing any classified research whatsoever — get log-entries like these every day:

    ...
    Nov 7 02:42:15 symbion sshd[96507]: Invalid user admin from 186.64.69.136
    Nov 7 02:42:15 symbion sshd[96507]: input_userauth_request: invalid user admin [preauth]
    Nov 7 02:42:21 symbion root-ssh-watch: banned 186.64.69.136 (for pretending to be invalid user `admin')
    Nov 7 02:54:34 symbion sshd[96528]: Invalid user pos from 47.19.134.118
    Nov 7 02:54:34 symbion sshd[96528]: input_userauth_request: invalid user pos [preauth]
    Nov 7 02:54:35 symbion sshd[96530]: Invalid user pi from 47.19.134.118
    Nov 7 02:54:35 symbion sshd[96530]: input_userauth_request: invalid user pi [preauth]
    Nov 7 02:54:35 symbion sshd[96532]: Invalid user manager from 47.19.134.118
    Nov 7 02:54:35 symbion sshd[96532]: input_userauth_request: invalid user manager [preauth]
    Nov 7 02:54:36 symbion sshd[96534]: Invalid user admin from 47.19.134.118
    Nov 7 02:54:36 symbion sshd[96534]: input_userauth_request: invalid user admin [preauth]
    Nov 7 02:54:36 symbion sshd[96537]: Invalid user ubnt from 47.19.134.118
    Nov 7 02:54:36 symbion sshd[96537]: input_userauth_request: invalid user ubnt [preauth]
    Nov 7 02:54:41 symbion root-ssh-watch: banned 47.19.134.118 (for pretending to be invalid user `admin')
    Nov 7 04:17:05 symbion sshd[97127]: Invalid user admin from 187.19.101.110
    Nov 7 04:17:05 symbion sshd[97127]: input_userauth_request: invalid user admin [preauth]
    Nov 7 04:17:05 symbion sshd[97127]: Postponed keyboard-interactive for invalid user admin from 187.19.101.110 port 51224 ssh2 [preauth]
    Nov 7 04:17:05 symbion sshd[97127]: error: PAM: authentication error for illegal user admin from 187-19-101-110.users.certto.com.br
    ...

    Do I get to count each entry as a separate attack? Or one "attack" per remote IP?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  9. Everyone's got one by jblues · · Score: 2

    Meh - everyone has a submarine these days. . .

    Even rebel separatist groups. Here in the Philippines the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) sadly have trouble with the Google ranking due to competition in the namespace for that acronym. However, that didn't stop plans for the purchase of a Swede-made MSM Type A midget submarine, which was to be used to disrupt the development of an oil and gas project in the now hotly disputed South-china Sea.

    The MILFs are one of several separatist groups in the Philippines, which come in Islamic and Communist, and just-plain-thug varieties. The formation of the of the MILF is actually, unsurprisingly, a tragic story. In the 60s with the incumbent government of the Philippines, proceed with plans to invade and reunite neighboring Sabah, which was granted under a lease, but somehow after World War 2 ended up as Malaysian territory.

    Troops from the western region of Mindanao were selected and trained to form an elite squadron. When the troops learned that their mission would involve lethal combat with their neighboring kin-folks they refused to participate, so they were massacred by the Philippines Armed Forces on March 18, 1968. This led to years of uprising and political unrest, and it was only recently that the Philippines Government formally acknowledged that the incident occurred.

    Reading about this and other affairs helped me to learn about governments, terrorism, political intrigue and rebel groups. We live in a violent world where democracy and other formal government processes seem to be a thin, fragile structure over game-of-thrones style chaos.

    --
    If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
  10. Re:Cool paywall, bro by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a Rupert paper.

    Any time I'm paywalled by News Corporation, he's doing *me* a favour by disallowing the reading of his trashy article.

  11. Re:Cool paywall, bro by guestapoo · · Score: 2

    A bit off-topic, but I surprise that Slashdot not report this, Rupert Murdoch Takes Over at National Geographic, Immediately Starts Laying off Award-Winning Staff. I've read from SoylentNews.

  12. Huh? by s.petry · · Score: 2

    DoD work is supposed to be air gaped when classified. Sure, there is a difference between military contractors and Government. Guess which ones give up information? Not the guys building the military gear, because they are held accountable for their actions.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.