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Explosions and Multiple Shootings In Paris, Possible Hostages (cnn.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Multiple sources are reporting that at least 18 people are dead across three shootings in central Paris. The Associated Press reports as many as 26, as of this writing. Some victims were at a restaurant, while others were at a nearby theater. Early reports indicate there may be a hostage situation with more people at that theater. Police have also confirmed an explosion at a bar near Stade de France stadium, where a football match was underway between France and Germany. There are reports of other explosions heard at the stadium as well, but no details yet. "The attack comes as France has heightened security measures ahead of a major global climate conference that starts in two weeks, out of fear of violent protests and potential terrorist attacks." The attacks occurred not far from where the Charlie Hebdo shooting happened in January. "French news media reported that Kalashnikov rifles had been involved in the shootings — a favored weapon of militants who have attacked targets in France — and that many rounds had been fired."
France is getting a large influx of muslim immigrants, and France enacted laws that pretty much amount to "hey, you live here? be French Arab, not Arab". That doesn't sit well with the Caliphate Crew, so they're attacking Paris until Paris conforms to Sharia.
And this is supposed to help the immigrant cause how?
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Why are they attacking France? What do they hope to achieve?
Caliphate. Sharia.
They say as much. Hard to hear them when you listen exclusively to Blame America First crap, though.
A few more of these and it'll finally get through. So no worries; you'll get it at some point.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
France participated in Operation Desert Storm aka "Operation_Daguet", which is probably reason enough for any jihadist. More recently with the large influx of North African Muslims there's been conflict with France's largely atheistic culture. See the Charlie Hebdo incident -- militant Islam lacks anything resembling either a sense of humor or respect for human rights.
To the point, militant Islam really, really wants to be in charge, which makes pretty much everyone in the world either an immediate target or a future target. It's odd that you don't seem to recognize that.
Unlike other religions, in Islam the act of KILLING is considered as honorable!
That is why throughout the world moslems are killing people - from Nigeria to Syria, to Kenya, to Paris, to WTC of NYC, to China, to Indonesia ... everywhere the you find moslem they kill
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It is the moslems who are doing the fucking killings !!
Can you liberals please wake the FUCK up?
I've enough of the stupidity of you liberals ! The shooters are yelling "Allahu Akhbar" and you goddamn liberals are blaming the French !!
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Terrorism isn't an effective tool to achieve goals.
What? It's right out of the Big Muslim Playbook. That's exactly how Islam spread across large parts of the world once upon a time - through sheer, terroristic violence. You know that neighbor of Frances' ... Spain? Yeah, once upon a time Islamic terrorists overran that next door neighbor and set up shop there for quite a while. Islam doesn't take over and become the ruling force in a country by offering nice health plans and a school for everyone. It happens at the point of the sword, and always has. They lost their mojo a long time ago, and have been culturally butt-hurt about it ever since. That seething anger is all about getting it back.
Unfortunately for them, they're now up against modernity. Fortunately for them, they're up against politically correct pussies in most cases, which means they can take advantage of things like massive movements of immigrants over-running Europe to place thousands of hardcore fighters right where they want them, complete with free housing and food while they gear up. It was never that easy the last time they rolled in - I'm sure they're laughing their asses off, this time. It's so much easier when the culture you want to crush holds the door open for you.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
In the New Testament killing is never portrayed as honorable
On the other hand in the koran killings are portrayed as an honorable service to 'allah', as long as the one getting slaughtered are the infidels
I am a Christian and I do read my Bible, and unlike you, I do read the koran as well to see the big contrast among the two
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
I have to agree. The downfall of some liberal countries is that they become *too* sensitive, and when confronted with a true enemy, they don't realize or recognize it.
When someone is out to destroy you, you cannot simply be polite and act like it's a dinner party where someone had bad manners.
Yep. Refugee shelters are being burned in multiple countries, and in particular a neo nazi went on a stabbing spree in a school in Sweden just a couple of weeks ago.
This is what gets me, is that countless people are going on TV, engaging in pearl-clutching and dog-whistle racism, acting horrified about "violent Muslim extremists" possibly crossing their borders. They effectively incite people to go burn these people out of their refugee shelters, Kristallnacht-level shit that hasn't been seen since Germany in the 1930's, marginalizing the refugees or immigrants and pushing them directly towards extremism as a defense mechanism.
Then, when an attack does finally happen - most often due to people who have been provably not part of the refugees coming into the EU in the first place - these very same racists then turn around and shout almost joyously, "SEE?! I TOLD YOU THEY WERE VIOLENT!", continuing the same pattern of racism and violence.
I've heard quite a bit about that actually. Sad and tragic accidents to be sure. But not exactly the same as people willfully murdering civilians en masse in the streets of a major European capital city.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Why are they attacking France? What do they hope to achieve?
Terror
That's why they call them "terrorists", Kent,
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
You statements are simplistic, naive and just wrong.
Read a damn history book. No country in history has ever "become the ruling force in a country by offering nice health plans and a school for everyone". The Visigoths who were defeated by the Muslims conquered the country through force after they finished sacking Rome. Every country has blood on their hands. Stop being simplistic.
I feel like you want to believe that human history and interaction is a series of simplistic events, carried out by caricatures rather than by complicated human cultures, each with their own desires, fears and circumstances. It's never that simple. NEVER.
"They told me it was impossible. I replied with maniacal laughter." http://www.mydailyrant.com/
Islam initially spread because it was very liberal (in the original meaning of the word). It is also why there were huge advances in science and culture. Eventually like most systems with riches it became corrupt and collapsed.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
I have said it before and I say it now: This current flow of asylum-seekers to Europe is unsustainable and is destroying Europe. This terrorism is just one example of it.
Several European countries are on verge of war. Angela Merkel and the foreign minister of Luxembourg have both said this, although I disagree with their idea that allowing the flood continue would prevent those wars. Letting the flood continue just makes problems worse.
The other thing is the the flood is so heavy that in many countries there isn't free buildings available anymore. And the costs of providing social security etc is going to cost enormous sums of money which simply is not available for long term. And we know that the employment rates of these immigrants are extremely low even during good economic times and at the moment economy in not in that good shape, unemployment rates are already high etc.
Except for your house, pretty much the entire country is a gun free-free zone. You can own a gun and keep it at home, but you can only carry it to and from your Army training, courses by government-authorized firearms organizations, gun shows (which are also highly regulated), or to sell it.
You can't have your gun at a movie theater just in case James Holmes or a Jihadist appears.
So, to not believe in your fairy tale I have to join the douchebag crowd? I can't simply not be part of either group of loonies?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
By denying the evilness of islam and accusing those who dare to oppose the cruelty acts of moslems as 'evil' the liberals are actually lending a helping hand to those moslem terrorists
I live in Paris, 10 minutes away from some of the attacks. And I have one thing to say: you are dumb as a bag of bricks.
And that's insulting to a bag of bricks. Nuff said.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
I understand why terrorists attacked the WTC, because America was a major power in the middle east (both militarily and culturally, and the terrorists hate both). Furthermore OBL hoped to increase his reputation by pushing around the US military.
Why are they attacking France? What do they hope to achieve?
OK, reality check: France is pounding ISIS in Syria right now. Yes, they (we) also pounded Lybia. Terrorists consider France an ally of the USA (which it is).
These guys are simply using terrorism everywhere, because that's the only thing they know how to do.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
It's never that simple. NEVER.
How much more complicated are militant Islamists than they come right out and SAY they are? Your desperate search for nuance in a movement that's entirely about (and making headway in) re-establishing a sprawling retrograde, medieval theocratic thugocracy is the perspective that's lacking historical relevance. Wake up. It IS that simple. "Let's go kill a bunch of young French people to show how much we hate exactly what those young be do, are, and want the world to be." Done. That simple. And that will provoke the necessary response, which the extremists will cite as proof that their cause is just, and, and they'll ramp it up even more.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Islam initially spread because it was very liberal (in the original meaning of the word). It is also why there were huge advances in science and culture. Eventually like most systems with riches it became corrupt and collapsed.
I wonder if all of the people who were killed at the birth and initial expansion of Islam would consider their deaths to have been appropriately "liberal."
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
It's "News for nerds; stuff that matters". I believe this falls under "stuff that matters". At least, it's the sort of stuff that matters to most of us.
France is a bigger power then the US is Muslim countries due to it's continued political dominance of it's former colonies in North Africa. Those states have as many Muslims as the US-aligned bits of the Middle East, and while pro-American Middle Eastern dictators risk coups for being too pro-American, anti-French North African leaders have a long tradition of being exiled by their own militaries at France's request, and replaced with someone who understands that while his title may be the same as the French Presidents, he is still de facto a colonial governor.
Moreover, France actually has a pretty large Muslim population who feel extremely isolated from the French state. They (along with the UK) are one of the biggest sources of recruits for ISIS, and in 2005 they rioted.
So the shocking thing here isn't that a group of them were so pissed that they wanted to shoot up some shit, it's that a) the French security state didn't detect their cell earlier, b) they got Kalishnikovs into a country with much stricter gun control then us.
How many "preppers" are there in the U.S. that believe the West is going to collapse into ruin any day now. All it will take is just the right spark to start the race/culture/religious/civil war.
There's a big difference between preparing for the possibility (you don't seriously believe there will never again be war in North America, do you?), versus believing you can bring it about yourself. Preppers recognize the reality that stable, peaceful societies never last forever and often devolve quickly without enough advance notice to avoid the fray. Terrorists believe they can cause that devolution.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
I would hesitate to call islam "evil" and thereby brand every muslim as an evil person as well. I have muslims amongst my friends and colleagues, and even the more devout ones are guys like you and me, who just want to get along and get on with their lives, and who are just as appalled at these attacks. The less devout ones will happily share a good scotch or go out for beers after work. Not real muslims? If they call themselves that, they are (even it it means a mighty struggle against their more hardline brethren).
That does not mean that there are some pretty bad things in the qur'an itself (just like the bible, I might add). We should be careful to call every individual muslim to task for the literal text in the qur'an without knowing what their stance is, but we should also not shy away from criticizing the bad things coming out of islam or islamic cultures: genital mutilation, violence against homosexuals, nonbelievers, and apostates, or oppression of women, to name a few. Sadly in Europe the debate is pretty black and white it seems: it's either "muslims are bad", or "you're an imperialist intolerant lowlife for criticizing minority cultures". There is a middle ground, and it's not a compromise, but it is recognition of the fact that not all muslims are alike. Don't condemn the group, condemn the atrocities, the actual violation of human rights, and those who do the violating.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
France has really stringent gun control laws. That did not prevented Charlie Hebdo. That also did not prevented 11/13/2015 events in Paris.
What's your point? Do you want to go over the number of mass shootings in the US that also were not prevented by armed citizens?
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
Do you really think france will just abandon their tradition of a very liberal atheist society because of a few terror attacks? "Welp guys, it was a good run for the last few hundred years, but now its time to give sharia a try. Can't afford any more dead bodies!".
No. the only objective of terrorists is to bring terror. They do this so that they can divide the populace, and push un-radicalized muslims over the edge to make more terrorists. They want the non muslims to hate the muslims MORE by these actions (if it even was islamists, we dont know at this point). So your really just playing into the hands of the terrorists by spouting your islamophobias, and joining them on the hate train.
The correct solution is to treat this as a crime, like any other and punish those responsible. Don't go trampling on the rights of ALL muslims / citizens because of a few extremists. That is the objective of terrorist acts!!
But that's how the french would/should deal with it. Americans would deal with it by over-reacting, invading countries, and creating more terrorists in the middle east. See how well that worked for you guys? No worries, you'll get it at some point. You cant fight terrorism with more violence. It's a never ending cycle, and thats exactly what the islamists want!!!! perpetual instability.
As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
Pick a country and kill people in the name of Islam
Cause hate against non millitant/radical Muslims in that country.
Non militant/radical Muslims become militant and radical from the new hate.
?????
Profit!
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
I am very disappointed that this is currently modded +5, Insightful. While I very much agree that we - as a modern, liberal (in the true European sense of the word - not the American caricature of a rich elitist sipping Chardonnay from the backseat of a limousine) society are confronting a medieval, barbaric, religious-whacko movement that wants to apply religious law (as does Ben Carson, etc., BTW) to everyone in the world, just where in the hell do you get the idea that NOT just declaring all of muslims as evil who should be exterminated becomes "Blame America First"? What kind of disjointed, fucked-up thinking can lead from one to the other? Let me guess - you watch Fox News almost exclusively and keep talk radio tuned in all the time. Try expanding your thought process to be able to hold 2 separate thoughts in your head at the same time. Trust me, it can be truly liberating to think independently.
Fortunately for them, they're up against politically correct pussies in most cases
It's the gun toting macho pussies that I'm more worried about. The ones who react to stuff like this by arming themselves, increasing "security" (i.e. reducing freedom and privacy) and generally being afraid of anyone with dark skin and the wrong religion. Those guys are the real threat to our democracies and way of life.
The last thing we want to do now is militarize Paris. I was disgusted to hear a British MP on the TV tonight using these attacks as justification for the Snooper's Charter spying laws he wants to introduce. I'm not afraid, I will walk down the street without clutching my sword, and I don't need weak minded idiots who buy into all this "over-running Europe" crap protecting me thanks.
Yep. I am having deja vu to 9/11. When here on slashdot, several commentators accurately predicted the largest fallout would be restricting our own freedoms.
Fuck that shit! I will take a stastically insignificant attack by deperate nobodies who are doing pointless insignificant attacks because they know they have already LOST, over losing our freedom.
I think that you'll find that the majority of Muslim scholars will be happy to point out why Islam forbids what they're doing.
Like most religious books, you can use them to excuse any kind of behavior. That's why religion must be stamped out. It doesn't matter if it's Islam or Catholicism or Moronism (it's not the angel Mormoni...) it's got to go.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You are confusing terrorism with armies. Those who overran spain back in , what, the 8th century were armies, just like went sent whole armies in their land to conquer it (remember the crusade? By your own definition it was pure christian terrorism - especially knowing how they massacred the locals christian, jew and muslim alike on their way there).
Citation needed : terrorism having vainquished a modern country and a horde of terrorist having the power. Muslim terrorist have no chance whatsoever to conquer a country like France. The best they could achieve is trying to frighten people, but even back decades ago when tehy were setting bombs in the RATP people were not afraid. We were just mightily pissed off that all trashcans were welded shuts.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Here's the deal. Islamic terrorism is not a "fringe movement" or a group of "isolated loners". This makes it different from the Charleston church shooting kid, the Colorado movie theater kid, the unabomber, and even the Oklahoma City bombing. It's an international movement and is the express goal of many nations, Muslim sects and people around the world. Search Twitter for 'allahu ackbar' to see all the people around the world celebrating this attack. A person who reflexively rejects any attempt to understand or protect against a worldwide message of hate and violence has his head in the sand.
Yep I am sure they are all pointing their army issue guns at each other to dissuade muggings. Or perhaps it is a remarkably state controlled system. Fascist or Communist by your judgement of how things actually work. After all the guns are registered. The population is tracked. Even down to ensuring that they get enough shooting time at the range.
Without necessarily disagreeing with anything in your post whatsoever, can we please get a little discrimination of ideas and of people? You blurred these lines, and they really need to be un-blurred.
A Muslim police officer was killed while responding to the Charlie Hebdo shootings and a second Muslim helped hide Jews when those same jihadis went on another rampage in the following days. It's important not to forget that. It's also important to not forget that Muhammad killed people right and left, only pausing now and then to rape a nine year old or talk about the importance of kissing a magic rock embedded in Borg cube.
It's an evil and stupid book. People who have completely disagreed with me have gone on to do wonderful things, build wonderful things, advance the cause of physical sciences and history tremendously, etc. etc. disclaimers etc.... can I stop now? Is it ok to simply criticize people and ideas from the seventh fucking century now?
Don't condemn the group, condemn the atrocities, the actual violation of human rights, and those who do the violating.
You're forgetting to condemn the millions of people amongst who the live, and who allow them to continue to operate, be funded, preach hate and recruit. The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
My total guess is it's people with ties to the middle east who are fed up with being killed by westerners.
Yes. As has anyone who ever watched a boat sail over the horizon.
sustainable living
Nothing personal, but it bugs me to see this particular urban legend repeated. Tampering with your disconnector will just make your gun jam. It may fire two or three rounds before it jams. If you want the thrill, and the prison sentence, just leave the disconnector out. No need to ruin the part.
To convert to full auto for real (don't do this unless your find yourself in the middle of a zombie apocalypse, or some other situation that you fear more than you fear spending 10 years in prison):
First, obtain a full auto fire control group. Readily available over the counter. If the rest of your kit is mil-spec, you just need the auto-sear, it's axis and spring. You may need different parts if not mil-spec: hammer, trigger, disconnector, selector and bolt carrier. You may also need to mill out your fire control pocket, or get a different receiver.
Second, obtain the means of locating the axis hole and drilling it square. Jigs are, again, readily available over the counter. So are blueprints, drill presses and CNC machines.
Third, and this is the part that lands you in prison, drill the axis hole. Drill undersize and finish with a reamer if you want it to be nice, but roll pins can tolerate a little slop. Congratulations, you have now illegally manufactured a machine gun. (There are ways for this step to be legal, which don't apply to you.)
Fourth, assemble your machine gun and use it wisely.
Fifth, destroy it when you are done, if you haven't been caught yet. If your receiver is aluminum, use a hydraulic press to fracture the casting into at least three pieces, or melt it in a smelter. If steel, cut in three parts with a torch or some other method that leaves a jagged irregular kerf. Bandsaw won't work now that the ATF considers a receiver to be intact if it could be welded back together.
Consult a lawyer before performing steps 1 and 2. As far as I know, no one who stopped after #2 has ever been charged, but some people speculate that it could show intent.
Regarding American carry, I'll say that they went 0 for 2 at the Draw Muhammed event in Texas. Last night in Paris, 4 attackers apparently killed 100 people, one by one. In many public places in America, 2 or 3 of those 100 would have been armed. Not much can be done about the opening salvo, but armed men don't normally wait for their turn to die while those around them get picked off one at a time. The body count might have been much lower, and the worst case is none higher.
See that "Preview" button?
The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.
Why couldn't they operate?
I think that IRA terrorists, Basque terrorists, ETA terrorists, Red Hand Brigade terrorists, heck even Timothy McVeigh managed to operate quite well without needing the tacit approval of millions. I'm not sure why militant jihadis would be any different?
you're closing your eyes to the true depth of the islamic terrorism problem if you insist on seeing it as a bunch of jerks instead of how it really is, a cultural and political movement.
Analogy time. Let's say there's a fraternity on campus known as the rapey fraternity. The leaders encourage and endorse date rape. Members of the fraternity cheer on social media whenever date rape is reported in the media. You know a guy in the fraternity who is a very active participant. Goes to all the meetings, goes to all the parties, wears the fraternity sweatshirts around campus, all that stuff. You don't know him personally, but isn't it reasonable to be wary of this guy? would you want your sister or daughter dating this guy?
Many strains of fundamentalist islam are like this rapey fraternity. Hate and violence are so infused into the core of the sect, and infused into the religious teachings themselves, that I think if you are american or european it's perfectly reasonable to be wary of somebody who chooses to associate themselves with this sect.
You're forgetting to condemn the millions of people amongst who the live, and who allow them to continue to operate, be funded, preach hate and recruit. The militant jihadis could never operate without the tacit approval of many millions of their less violent but none the less supportive co-religionists.
That was Osama bin Laden's argument for justifying his attack on the World Trade Center. He felt that the hundreds of millions of Americans who allowed the CIA and Israelis to operate, fund, preach hate and recruit against Lebanon and the Arab world were giving their tacit approval to the killing of muslims.
When's the last time you've condemned Western human rights violations against muslims and Arabs?
Like the more than 150,000 Iraqis killed during Bush's invasion?
"Good" religious people are nevertheless the breeding ground for evil terrorists.
Where is the fatwa that declares all terrorism un-islamic and cleares up that terrorists won't go to get 72 virgins and in fact they'll go to the deepest pits of hell (or whatever the islam equivalent, I'm not an expert)?
The Iranian Prime Minister was among the first to speak out clearly against these attacks, and I respect him for it. But all this jabbering about how these fuckers who are through-and-through religious nutjobs have nothing to do with the very religion that they themselves use to justify their actions is just pathetic.
Of course there is a link. Stop denying it. We can discuss the nature of the link, that there are various interpretations of the holy texts and only some of them lead to violence and so on. But I'm not even taking anyone seriously anymore who categorically denies that there is a link between this terrorism and islam. Of course there is.
What too many people don't get is basic logic. That for terrorism islam by itself isn't enough, there are other preconditions. Social inequality seems to be one of them. Cultural influences, and so on. But even if the religion is not the only reason, it is one of the reasons.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
After 9-11 I saw young Moroccans celebrating in the streets. I also saw muslims of Indonesian, Turkish, Surinamese origin and older Moroccans scolding them. Young Moroccans are exceptionally troublesome here, compared to other groups. The reason is youthful bashfulness in an unfortunate mix with certain cultural aspects, upbringing, and socio-economic issues. Religion certainly plays a role, and hardline muslims (operating from mosques sponsored by S.A.) are all too happy to recruit from these younsters, but it is not the sole cause of the problems. For these kids, religion provides an identity and serves as an excuse for their actions. To them, it's more gang culture than a belief system.
The problem right now is that one half of the country expresses extreme tolerance towards muslims, giving them a free pass on many things that would land anyone else in hot water with the law. The other half has given up and turned their backs on all muslims. That's not going to work if we are to continue to live together. What we should do is to treat muslims like everyone else. Exactly like everyone else. If someone gets fired from a public-interface job because they refuse to shake women's hands, it's their own damn fault, not intolerance towards their beliefs. Your former boss should have seen that incident for what it was instead of tiptoeing around religious sensitivities. If Moroccan kids make trouble, don't go easy on them "to avoid issues with the community" as happens so often; these kids already know they can get away with murder, sometimes to the desperation of their parents. And if we want to call the nastier aspects of islam into question, we should be able to do so openly without being called recist or worse. From now on, let's ignore the "race / religion card" if they play it, and treat them fairly for the rest.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...