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Tape Disintegration Threatens Historical Records, But Chemistry Can Help (nautil.us)

Posted by Soulskill on from the don't-lose-your-spacewar-saved-games dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Modern storage methods are designed with longevity in mind. But we haven't always had the scientific knowledge or the foresight to do so. From the late 60s to the late 80s, much of the world's cultural history was recorded on magnetic tapes. Several decades on, those tapes are disintegrating, and we're faced with the permanent loss of that data. "The Cultural Heritage Index estimates that there are 46 million magnetic tapes in museums and archives in the U.S. alone—and about 40 percent of them are of unknown quality. (The remaining 60 percent are known to be either already disintegrated or in good enough condition to be played.)" Fortunately, researchers have worked out a method to determine which copies are recoverable. They "combined a laptop-sized infrared spectrometer with an algorithm that uses multivariate statistics to pick up patterns of all the absorption peaks." Here's the abstract from their research paper. "As the tapes go through the breakdown reaction, the chemical changes give off tiny signals in the form of compounds, which can be seen with infrared light—and when the patterns of reactions are analyzed with the model, it can predict which tapes are playable."

76 comments

  1. Sic transit gloria mundi! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Our young men have not died in vain, ...
    The tapes have recorded their names.

  2. Modern storage methods are designed with longevity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What hubris! History has taught us that information is best preserved when backups are made, not when the original is designed to last for a long time.

    But of course we're so technologically advanced that nothing would render our magical modern storage methods unreadable...

  3. Cryogenic storage by frnic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Freeze them all and wait until a 3d Printer can scan and reconstruct them at the atomic level...

    1. Re:Cryogenic storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally! Something sensible and totally realistic! Don't forget to build it on Mars.

    2. Re:Cryogenic storage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just need to find a way to scan a minute magnetic signal wrapped in several thousand layers of other tiny magnetic signals then somehow print that. I bet you're one of the same guys who thinks we should let global warming run its course and just 3D print another planet.

    3. Re:Cryogenic storage by KGIII · · Score: 1

      The freezing process may do unrepairable harm. I'm assuming you're saying that in jest but, just in case... I'm not entirely sure that the freezing and thawing would be conducive to data retention/preservation. I am, of course, not an expert on the subject. It just seems unlikely that the process would not harm the medium.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    4. Re:Cryogenic storage by Tapewolf · · Score: 1

      Freeze them all and wait until a 3d Printer can scan and reconstruct them at the atomic level...

      My Quantegy tapes say to store between 4-32 degrees C (40-90 F). RMG and ATR don't seem to specify a temperature range, but I suspect cryogenic storage is going to do very bad things to the plastic. Also note that temperature does have effects on magnetism - e.g. the Curie point. Effects of low temperatures I don't know about offhand.

  4. What did I miss here... by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Just try, if they're playable great. If not, then... what? Here's the paper on which something once was written but is now gone, what's the point of that?

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:What did I miss here... by suutar · · Score: 1

      the problem is that reading them to see if they're readable puts more wear on them. If you're ready to transfer the data to something else, that's fine, but if you're just trying to determine which to try first and which to not even bother, it's less useful (and possibly more time consuming).

  5. Why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did nobody just backup those tapes the moment CDs became widely available?

    1. Re:Why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Copyright restrictions, probably.

    2. Re:Why... by frnic · · Score: 1

      Uh, lets see -

      CDs suck for long term archival storage. Professional photographers found that the hard way.

      You have any idea how many CD's it would take to back up all those tapes?

    3. Re:Why... by mukinrestak · · Score: 2

      DING DING DING, we have a winner!. Copyright has made us lose more shit than it ever helped provide. I'd personally like to murder the people responsible for me not being able to see all of Buster Keaton's movies. Anymore I think a copyright of over 10 years is excessive, and we need an automatic exception for any archival efforts.

    4. Re:Why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have some strange priorities... Copyright, the ability to profit on ones work with an (ideally - and more so, at the time) limited monopoly on those works probably was one of the primary motivations to make said movies but, yet, you feel entitled to take a life over your inability to watch a movie. Because, copyright - which, probably, didn't actually stop the copyright owners from backing up the data at all. Unless, you want to argue that you've got (or someone else has) a right to someone else's labor.

      We call that slavery, by the way.

    5. Re:Why... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      You have any idea how many CD's it would take to back up all those tapes?

      Not as many as you might think as they would be Bluray, or Modisc, which both have decent storage densities. You could even move them over to more modern tapes that are up in the 6TB range now.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    6. Re:Why... by Tapewolf · · Score: 1

      Did nobody just backup those tapes the moment CDs became widely available?

      Recordable CDs didn't appear for nearly a decade after the CD was introduced, and when they did they were insanely expensive. What they usually did was record to a newer tape, or some newer format like DAT, DASH or ProDIGI. None of these strategies would really pan out properly, however.

      A new analogue copy would work, but we now know that between 1975 and 1995 Ampex tapes still had the sticky shed problem, which is exactly what we're trying to solve. With DAT the machines are intricate and fragile, being essentially tiny video recorders and AFAIK they haven't been made for some time. They're harder to keep working than say, a Studer A80 or MCI which mostly use off-the-shelf electronics and still have quite a large supply of parts and decent OEM support.

      DAT also recorded at 48KHz instead of 44.1 so an eventual transfer to CD would be lossy owing to sample rate conversion, or plays back at the wrong speed, but there were quite a few DAT machines made so you could still do the transfer. Assuming the thin, fragile videotape in the DAT cartridge hasn't deteriorated.

      DASH... machines sometimes turn up on ebay but are probably just scrapped because no-one wants them. Being digital they won't have 'the tape sound' so even the retro nuts like me won't touch them. ProDigi machines are like hen's teeth.

      So no, a 1980s format conversion could potentially have made things even worse. Indeed, one of the favourite formats for budget digital recording was... Betamax.

  6. Not a new problem, of course by cirby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I ran into a related issue about 25 years ago.

    I was working in a college media library, and there were several stacks (over 70 tapes in total) of 2" reel-to-reel video tape from the 1960s and 1970s - recordings off air from Public Television, mostly. Some of them were of local shows nobody even seemed to remember, and others were from live performances at the Dallas station or of live feeds from PBS. There was a live Alvin Ailey dance troupe local show from the late 1960s, if I recall correctly.

    The problem was that they were recorded in a rare two-inch format - and only four machines that used it were ever even built (no, it wasn't 2" quadruplex, there were still lots of those at the time). I couldn't find a working machine, and the only one I could dig up was missing major parts (like the heads). So unless someone builds a new one from scratch just to read those tapes, all of that is going to disappear - if it hasn't already.

    1. Re:Not a new problem, of course by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      couldnt the tape be still framed one at a time in a modern scanning format to bring it back? (the video portion at least) im not sure how to pull the audio but being analog wouldnt there be a way to pull that as well?

      not pretty and much harder 25 years ago, but there seems there is some kind of solution today no?

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Not a new problem, of course by Tapewolf · · Score: 1

      Was it an IVC machine, out of interest?

    3. Re:Not a new problem, of course by Tapewolf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      couldnt the tape be still framed one at a time in a modern scanning format to bring it back? (the video portion at least) im not sure how to pull the audio but being analog wouldnt there be a way to pull that as well?

      The audio would be pretty easy to pull off - it's going to be a straight linear audio track so you could probably just stick it in a regular 24-track studio recorder. Pulling the video is the hard part because practically all 2" video machines use a segmented scanning technique with the head-wheel angled at 90 degrees to the tape. If these are helical scan, the tracks are going to be laid down at 15 degrees or something weird like that, and you'd need to build a custom video head for it. Maybe it's possible to take a C-format head and machine a suitable drum for it, I don't know.

      Earlier I asked if it was an IVC recorder - however, reading it again he said that only 4 existed so I'm pretty sure they were recorded on an Ampex 8000, a 1961 helical scan machine that Ampex made prototypes of but never went into full production with or something. So yes, that's going to be a rare bird indeed.

    4. Re:Not a new problem, of course by cirby · · Score: 1

      Nope. It was some weird experimental machine, the IVC was relatively popular in comparison. Like I said, only four built, ever. Wasn't compatible with ANYTHING.

      I can't remember the manufacturer, but it wasn't any of the big names.

    5. Re:Not a new problem, of course by cirby · · Score: 2

      That solution might work - but it would have to work on possibly-already-dead tape from the 1960s and 70s (which is often turning into dust already). There's a lot of archive stuff that's been sitting in old storage rooms for decades that's pretty much just a random pile of chemicals by now.

      There's also a real possibility that they all got thrown away after I left - since there was nothing to play them on (and not much chance of a replacement at that point), it wouldn't surprise me.

      A side note: this same library had a number of nitrate films in the collection, including what was supposedly a copy of one episode of "Victory At Sea," the classic documentary. In particular, they were stored in the middle of the REST of the collection. Extremely flammable and old, degrading nitrate films. When I found the first one, I opened the can CAREFULLY on the concrete loading dock, found it was just mush, and arranged to have it destroyed safely. I spent a bit of the next couple of days finding another dozen in similar condition and disposing of them too.

      At least videotape doesn't catch fire so easily.

    6. Re:Not a new problem, of course by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Maybe the video could be reconstructed digitally. If the tape was scanned with a normal 90 degree head a computer could probably take that data and reconstruct the helical scan signal from it. Obviously it would need a lot of over-sampling and processing to produce good results, but it might be easier than trying to build something.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Not a new problem, of course by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I could have sworn that I saw a documentary that was about preservation of old media. It was at, I believe, the Smithsonian? They were not just doing preservation but also some pretty advanced recovery and yes, it was expensive. However, one of the machines was - and I'm no expert, able to read from tape of any width as I recall. It has some electronic device that it moved over and then they appeared to be using custom software and error correction? They also had light and weren't actually using the light to project images (like film negatives) as I recall but were taking the inputs and processing them computationally and recovering data that way.

      I believe they mentioned some prices and that it was prohibitively expensive for many things as it took a lot of time. I seem to recall another machine that had multiple heads on they used that to average out data or some sort of processing. Unfortunately, I was watching it for entertainment and not scholarly reasons so I didn't really pay too much attention and this is, certainly, not a domain that I'm familiar with. I'd imagine this was ten or so years ago - I'd like to believe the technology has improved (while the tapes degraded) but, if it's important, then there may be someone able and willing to extract the content for archiving.

      There were a few methods mentioned and a separate process, which I found neat. While attempting to retrieve the data they'd have, of course, errors. Some things just couldn't be recovered. They were still able to use prediction processes (automated, mostly, it seems) and fabricate the missing data. Another thing that they were able to do was take partially recovered data and, using a different system entirely, clean that data up to make quality presentations again. This was a whole two hour long (as I recall) documentary on the subject and included photo, film, video, and data recovery and preservation techniques.

      I think they even covered some print recovery in the same documentary? I can't be sure though - I've seen a number of those. I think those sorts of documentaries are interesting, which is why I watched. It's neat some of the things that they go through to recover and preserve stuff and the restoration process is pretty advanced too.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  7. They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Snotnose · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thank god, I had some awesome BASIC skillz back then that I though were gone for good.

    1. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      I just recovered a VIC-20 tape on which I wrote a fairly decent game in BASIC. What is funny to some is fun for others.

    2. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 2

      Will you share it with the Vic20 Denial community?

      --
      READY.
      PRINT ""+-0
    3. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Sowelu · · Score: 1

      Oh man, please do share. I did a lot of my earliest coding on a VIC-20.

    4. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Thank god, I had some awesome BASIC skillz back then that I though were gone for good.

      Have the tepes finished loading your program yet?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ho Please, I hand coded a bootstrap for my S-100 Bus system to boot from hard sector 8" floppies.. Who uses the cassette tapes anymore?!?!

    6. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by thogard · · Score: 1

      There are programs that will convert mp3 from cassette tape recordings into the raw bit stream and back to the audio again. That means you can plug your mp3 player into the cassette port of your TRS-80/IBM-PC/Vic or Apple and load the programs.

      Can anyone read 9 track tapes in Melbourne Oz? I have one that needs read before all the bits go bad. Its a 6250cpi for maybe upto about 175 mbytes.

    7. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Ho Please, I hand coded a bootstrap for my S-100 Bus system to boot from hard sector 8" floppies.. Who uses the cassette tapes anymore?!?!

      When I was a kid, we geeks used toroid core memory and were thankful for it!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      My now/ sadly departed friend was amazing. He built his own machine, including a wonderful rough looking keyboard, wrote the bios and the OS in machine code. I vaguely think it was intel 4000, would have been in about 1977/78
      He worked in defence research at a very high level. the mid 80's, they gave him a navy ship to play with for 6 months!
      Brilliant muso too.

    9. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've an old-school geek friend in Cann River, out off of Prince's Highway. I don't know if they've got the equipment to do so but, if you want, I can ask them? I'm 100% positive that, if he has it, there'd be no charge involved. So, if it's close enough, I can ask on your behalf. I'm sure he'd be happy to have the project, he's retired and has a whole bunch of old equipment - including early stand-up arcade games and whatnot.

      Is this, specifically, what you mean:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      If so then, by all means, if you're serious then I'll be more than happy to ask 'em. You don't have to but you probably ought to bring him a beer or six for his efforts, of course.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    10. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      If you are serious, there it is possible. Would you want me to upload it, or mail you a 5 1/4" 1541 floppy ;)

    11. Re:They can save my TRS-80 tapes? by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      Of course I meant; it is possible.

  8. Laptop sized by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Is this like, 12" laptop sized or 17" laptop sized?

  9. Historical Alzheimer's by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    buh-bye.

  10. Modern storage methods are designed with longevity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bullshit. Citation required. Modern storage methods are designed to be cheap.

  11. It's time for a global public digital archive by presidenteloco · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A technical and logistical and financial project whose primary goal is longevity (in the multi-hundred-year sense) of that which it stores.
    It should not be accomplished by individual media that are designed to last.
    Rather it should use network redundancy cleverly and have protocols designed to ensure enough geographically distributed copies always exist.
    It would have to carefully consider "readability, interpretability" assurances, such as very standard simple formats and protocols, and the methodology of storing the displaying / interpreting environment and code as well as the data. Emulated 1980s arcade games, now available and playable online, are good examples of this.
    Sort of an Internet Archive on steroids. Crowdfunded?

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  12. Chemistry is the cause of, and answer to all our.. by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    It sounds like chemistry is what got us into this problem to begin with.

  13. Re:Modern storage methods are designed with longev by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

    Maybe we really don't need to retain all of this information.

  14. That might be it! by cirby · · Score: 1

    I didn't remember it as being an Ampex, but it might have been the VR-8000. The timeline's about right.

    I found a photo online, and that looks like the photo of the one from back then.

  15. Re:Modern storage methods are designed with longev by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    Maybe we really don't need to retain all of this information.

    Probably not most of it - but you never know for certain.

    What is missing these days is the concept of active archiving. The days of taking a book and putting it on a shelf as archiving are long gone. This was probably first noticeable then organizatyions started finding need to stockpile ancient computers as a way to retrieve old data from the large floppy discs and other old school data memory. But then we started getting to where this story pick up, with the coatings flaking off of tapes, whether sound data, or the discs.

    And its a maddening issue, as there are ancient tapes that are actually on paper, but still sound good, and some that the coating is almost gone. As well there are issues with print trough, which has been a problem with old video tapes, as the tape sits nest to it's neighbors above and below it, teh magnetized parts can transfer a little bit, and the image can get a little fuzzy over time.

    And we can't get complacent at all about CDs and DVDs I don't know if the young'uns remember at all about the great writable CD shortage era - this was when 1 CD cost around 11 dollars. And tehy were going bad quickly. I don't know if they were trying to reduce demand or if they were havienthat much difficulty making them, but it was difficult to get any for a while, and when you found one they were rationend out like WW2 tires.

    Then ther ewere the CD devouring fungi that ate the data from the unsealed sides of the CD. Bottom line is you should hope you don't need data stored on CD's from the mid 90's.

    So now if something is worth archiving, it needs to be in a form that you can continue to re-archive often.

    People often bust NASA's chops whne tehy lose old data. I understand perfectly how this happens. re-archive old data, or hire a new accountant ot oversee where all of the pencils go, and the accountant wins every time, while the data slowly fades away.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  16. M-Disk by godel_56 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Blu Ray version of M-Disk might be worth a look, as they're supposed to last for 1000 years. Also "backup" a spare drive that's capable of reading them.

    If not I suggest printing all the data out on boxes of blue and white stripey paper.

    1. Re:M-Disk by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Hmm... Wasn't there talk of being able to store data, permanently, in crystals? It popped up on /. quite a while back. I don't think I've seen anything about it in years.

      Hmm... Looks like it was back in 2013 actually. I thought it was a bit further back than that? Anyhow, if you've never seen anything about it:
      http://physicsworld.com/cws/ar...

      I have no idea where it currently resides, as far as progress goes, in the development stages or commercial viability so it may be vaporware.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  17. Voyager's Golden Record by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Makes you wonder what would have happened to the Voyager's Golden Record which was from 70s. They would have possibly taken necessary precautions but can it survive the extreme radiations it would be exposed to in outer space?

    1. Re:Voyager's Golden Record by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      That is not magnetic media. What exactly do you expect the radiation to do to the physical grooves on that gold record? Reshape them?

  18. 4 x 4 pallet of microfiche * FREE * by retroworks · · Score: 1

    Kept it 7 years, it's going in the dump next month, this is the final offer. Primarily NYT 1970-2000

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re: 4 x 4 pallet of microfiche * FREE * by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jason Scott at the Internet Archive here. Let's see what we can do. I am at jscott@archive.org.

  19. Re:Modern storage methods are designed with longev by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > History has taught us that information is best preserved when backups are made, not when the original is designed to last for a long time.

    I was thinking the exact opposite (and that maybe your case, too).

    From present to past:

    - Optical, magnetic, eletronic
    - Magnetic
    - Vinyl etchings
    - Wax (Edison recordings)
    - Metal (e.g. musicbox)
    - Paper
    - Leather (scrolls)
    - Stone (Rosetta...)
    - Paleolithic tools & statues

    The earlier in time, the more durable are the recordings. And they don't rely on backups. The Voyager had a metal plate, which kinda imitates the stone thing...

  20. Simple solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The simple, obvious solution is to convince deadheads that these tapes contain live recordings of the Grateful Dead on them. They will find a way not only to extract and digitize this information (if necessary) they will also track its lineage, archive it and spread it so that many backups exist.

  21. 60% are known to be either good or bad?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I make a bold prediction that 100% will be either good or bad.

  22. Disintigrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One technique for saving shedding magnetic tape is to bake it in the oven and a relatively low temp (don't have my notes handy, so I can't remember the spec). Did it for audio and VHS plenty of times.

  23. Modern storage designed with longevity in mind? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Modern storage methods are designed with longevity in mind.

    Are you sure about that?

  24. No, modern storage methods are even worse by gweihir · · Score: 2

    A HDD is good for maybe 5-10 years, but USB-sticks, unpowered SSDs and writable optical media may become unreadable after as little as a year. Unless you keep several redundant copies and verify and re-copy regularly, you are going to lose that data. The one readily-available exception is, surprisingly, archival-grade _tape_.

    This basically shows that the story writers have really no clue what they are talking about.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:No, modern storage methods are even worse by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Archival grade BluRay or M-DISC will be better than tape. Aside from anything else, it can be read back without contacting the media at all, and is designed for very long term storage. It's also very likely to be readable decades in the future with commonly available hardware. Consider that CDs are over 33 years old and still easily readable on commodity hardware. Getting compatible tape drives is likely to be harder and more expensive.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:No, modern storage methods are even worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had cheap USB keys go through bitrot in as little as two months of no usage.

      Nothing major, but I saw flipped bits in the header for the LUKS container on the USB key. The only reason I was aware of any degradation was because cryptsetup complained it doesn't know of a hash called ?HA512.

      I now make images of any USB keys that I won't be using for a while, a second backup of whatever is already on there.

    3. Re:No, modern storage methods are even worse by ledow · · Score: 1

      I still have the earliest CD-R's from my university days, still perfectly readable. And that was the era of 2x read on CDROM and 1x write if you were lucky, no such thing as RW back then. And you bought the cheapest disks you could find because they cost a fortune, so I wasn't buying those gold-layered things, just the cheapest green-or-purple dye things from wherever had them in stock (pretty much pre-online ordering).

      I have about 50-60 disks, each two copies because of the scare stories, and they all read identically and are intact. In fact one of them burned with a mastering error immediately and it was picked up by an immediate verify. I noticed that it was a single-byte change, noted it on a slip of paper that I stuck to the CD and - to this day - you can pull that disc out of it's sleeve, put it in a laptop, read the CD into an ISO, change that one byte back to what the piece of paper in there says, and the entire disk reads just fine (there are CRCs and integrity checks on the internal formats, e.g. original PKZIP etc. too in case you think I'm just not checking properly).

      CD-R media has a long life, so long as you handle it nicely and store it in a room and not a damp basement.

      To be honest, I have a 20Mb hard drive floating about somewhere. If it works on my IDE->SATA->USB convertors, I'd take a good guess that the MS DOS on there is still perfectly intact. All my other drives - spinning or not - that I have from after that era are just fine and I keep EVERY drive (I tend to buy a drive twice as big, copy the old drive over to the new, expand the partitions, then file the old drive, and repeat every time I run out of room). Some of them are still spinning and have been for years, some of them are in a box. I've never had problems with them.

      USB sticks? No idea, I don't keep them long enough to worry about. SSD's, I doubt anyone has had them long enough to see them become unreadable just from age but I could be wrong (1Tb SSD drive in my laptop at the moment, copied from the previous 1Tb HDD which was a copy of my 500Gb Windows 7 drive, which was a copy of it's 128Gb Windows XP predecessor, etc. etc. etc.).

      I don't know what you people do to your disks but I have a bunch of floppies from the 80's in work that still work just fine. I work in education and it's still not unusual for someone to pop up with a 3.5" thing with some software on it that "it's vital they get the kids onto immediately". Only those disks that have been abused can't be read back.

      Whether you have the capability to run the resulting program on modern Windows at all... that's a bigger question entirely.

    4. Re:No, modern storage methods are even worse by gweihir · · Score: 1

      That is complete BS. First, all reputable data recovery outfits will for the foreseeable future have the respective drives available and copy fees are not actually high. Second, the newer generations of these drives read the old tape generations. And third, if "archival" grade BlueRay turns out like all the other consumer crap "archival" media, even getting 10 years out of them reliably will be a stretch. And M-DISC? Comes from as single vendor and their claims are so obviously vastly over-blown that anybody with an ounce of sense is very vary of their tech.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:No, modern storage methods are even worse by gweihir · · Score: 1

      What you completely misunderstand is that an archival medium must be _reliable_. Sure, some batches of CD-R live very long and some HDDs do too. But others do not and there is no way to tell beforehand.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  25. Re:Modern storage methods are designed with longev by abies · · Score: 1

    This is kind of obvious thing that further you look in the past, more durable recordings you OBSERVE. There might have been a lot of non-durable paleolithic 'books' - but we will never know. And if somebody looks at our stuff in 1000 years, they will say - these guys knew how to preserve data, they made all these engravings on memorials and metal plates on benches, while we have everything recorded in supervolatile quantum displacement substrate.

    Or, what is more probable, they will just smash our stuff with clubs while chanting sacred verses from whatever version of holy book will win in race to dumb human progress in next hundred years.

  26. Why are Americans so stupid? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The remaining 60 percent are known to be either already disintegrated or in good enough condition to be played.)"

    Do they mean "NOT in good enough condition to be played"?

    1. Re:Why are Americans so stupid? by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      I think they mean they know which condition it is in without further specifying the percentage of bad and good. It would be far more useful if they had provided the information about how that 60% was split up.

  27. save the tapes by albeit+unknown · · Score: 1

    I want them alive. No disintegrations!

  28. The DC100A tapes of my 1982 HP-85 are still intact by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The DC100A tapes of my Hewlett Packard 85A from 1982 are still intact, but as soon as you try to read them, the head scrapes off the magnetic coating from the plastic film. After that I am left with transparent tape and brown powder. I have tried the baking instructions http://www.josephson.com/bake_tape.html to re-activate the binding but that did not help for me and I am still stuck with the Sticky Shed Syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticky-shed_syndrome

    Would it be possible to read a tape without the head touching the tape? Maybe a very sensitive head?

  29. Re:Modern storage methods are designed with longev by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Yeah, because no one makes durable storage, it just isn't a thing...

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  30. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean that all that stuff between the 60s and the 80s, like bell-bottom pants and mullets, will be lost forever? The only important question is how can we speed up the process of tape disintegration?

  31. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #1/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

    Where'd I say it? Show us. I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there on OpenDNS free (I use it) + AD in my security guide.

    + Migrate hosts across a LAN (admin/scripts not GPO)-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ---

    I'm RIGHT on admin priv + hosts (WFP/SFP)!

    "figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

    How else can I programmatically update hosts itself?

    ---

    "it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

    Hypocrite later admits it!

    Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS it or it can't do a job fully like many security tools!

    ---

    "Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    Stupid, mine doesn't to get new data. Only hosts itself updates need it vs WFP/SFP. Users set it too. It's not programmatic impersonation.

    ---

    "90's technology to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

    "I resolved to apply antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

    It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET said hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

    Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts+recommends APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    APK

    P.S.=> Con't. in #2/5... apk

  32. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #2/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    Neither does my program. AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = Vastly INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I proved & no one proved me wrong to date!

    ---

    "your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    No, hosts do due to WFP/SFP - Intake update of new hosts data doesn't!

    ---

    "won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen by others so it's misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

    ---

    "What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I don't keep a server. Security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it using process monitor + wireshark to prove it (don't need code)!

    ---

    "the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I place hardcoded fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - you'd spot it easily & bulk of hosts is sorted blocked known bad threats.

    ---

    "What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    Hasn't happened..

    ---

    "They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    It works there!

    Telemetry tracking (Killing 10 by itself) Win10 = Win8: A flop - who're you fooling other than yourself?

    APK

    P.S.=> Con't. in #3/5... apk

  33. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #3/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    62 sources of good repute show + /. users say otherwise:

    Proven safe by 57 antivirus programs in its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    Same for the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

    Per VirScan its installer too -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    ---

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news... /.'ers say my work is good too:

    "his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

    "I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

    "APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

    "his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

    ---

    You tried using Computer Associates another antivirus I turned over on false positives (1/8 over time) & they were caught in ACCOUNTING SCANDALS FRAUD http://www.bing.com/search?q=c...

    Reputable source (not): They had to sell off their PC security suite too (crap also) LOWERING the 'threat level' on THAT program (not my hosts file engine) TO ZERO!

    * YOU ARE WRONG ON EVERY ACCOUNT NOTED!

    APK

    P.S.=> To be continued in part #4/5... apk

  34. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #4/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Coren22 'eats his words' vs. me 2x yet again:

    "introduces risk you are relying on a 3rd party to update a hosts file potentially opening you up to MITM attacks" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

    How can my program do it?

    Only things it puts in as non-blocking IP addy to hostnames is ones users give it as their favs to speed up @ the TOP of hosts REVERSE DNS VERIFIED!

    (For more speed, & reliability + security - in RAM as 1st resolver queried = faster & more secure vs. remote DNS w/ all its security issues in Kaminsky flaw, DNSChanger malware IP stack settings, routers bushwhacked in DNS settings, rogue DNS, Open DNS servers abused by malware. It aids in reliability vs. redirects).

    YOU'D SPOT IT INSTANTLY AS THEY ARE @ TOP OF CUSTOM HOSTS & can easily edit anything you want out of it!

    (Rest = known bad sites from 10 reputable security community sites for blocking - the MAJORITY of what's in my hosts files!)

    ---

    "maybe one day you can get a score 5 comment" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

    See subject & ~ 12 +5 upmods making you "eat your words" vs. me (1st one: You tried using what I post there against me to FAIL):

    +5 'modded up' posts by "yours truly" (11):

    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://science.slashdot.org/co...
    http://tech.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://news.slashdot.org/comme...
    http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...
    http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...
    http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    "You believe you are getting the better of me" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 17, 2015

    YOU GOT THE BEST OF YOURSELF in tech fails & lies about me. Your immature signatures about me SCREAM you're butthurt! You did it to yourself.

    APK

    P.S.=> Con't. in #5/5... apk

  35. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #5/5... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "defame me saying things he knows aren't true - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    Hypocrite You're projecting & your signatures do the rest.

    "the feeling of icky his software - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    I show /.'ers say differently by quoted testimonials - Show us you've done better: YOU can't!

    "maybe someone will think they are true - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    Quotes of you = true - & You can't keep your word + projecting what YOU do (AD/DNS lie).

    "I don't have time for the Troll APK, and refuse to respond anymore to a post signed APK" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 03, 2015

    I protect users speeding them up, helping reliability, & security + anonymity online w/ more ability & efficiency than ANY 1 solution doing more w/ less - do you? No.

    "I should change my signature again to rile him up more." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 03, 2015

    Childish sigs = all you've got!

    "I refuted his assertions - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015

    &

    "You claim I have never proved you wrong...a flat out lie." - by Coren22 on Monday November 16, 2015

    &

    "I proved you wrong on numerous occasions" - by Coren22 on Monday November 16, 2015

    Where & on what tech? "Cat got your tongue"??

    "written in shitty Delphi, "How to secure Windows" docs I could have written in my sleep when I was 20" - by Coren22 on Monday November 16, 2016

    You're 30++ & haven't done either!

    Show you've done MORE vs.a small partial list of mine & better, + earlier:

    http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    THEN talk vs. TALKING OUT YOUR ASS!

    CIS Tool took fixes from me http://slashdot.org/comments.p... which you doubted & my layered security guides got me paid http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn... MILLIONS use.

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "I never admit you were right" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    You PROVED I AM... apk

  36. Re:Modern storage methods are designed with longev by morgauxo · · Score: 1

    No. History has taught us that if you want it to last you have to etch it in stone.

  37. Milky Way Search by mcswell · · Score: 1

    "Tape Disintegration Threatens Historical Records... From the late 60s to the late 80s, much of the world's cultural history was recorded on magnetic tapes." Good heavens! Are the historical records of the early Star Trek episodes in danger?