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YouTube Defending Select Videos Against DMCA Abuse

Galaga88 writes: It's not a complete solution, but YouTube is going to begin stepping up to defend select videos in court on fair use terms, including covering court costs. Will this help stem the tide of bad DMCA takedown requests, or just help the select few YouTube doesn't want to lose? From the blog post linked: We are offering legal support to a handful of videos that we believe represent clear fair uses which have been subject to DMCA takedowns. With approval of the video creators, we’ll keep the videos live on YouTube in the U.S., feature them in the YouTube Copyright Center as strong examples of fair use, and cover the cost of any copyright lawsuits brought against them. ... In addition to protecting the individual creator, this program could, over time, create a “demo reel” that will help the YouTube community and copyright owners alike better understand what fair use looks like online and develop best practices as a community.

56 comments

  1. Defense will be based on advertising dollars by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google and Youtube really does not care about fair use or the legal rights of their users. All they care about is advertising money. Now that there are some alternatives to Youtube, big channels are threatening to leave if the flood of false DCMA notifications does not stop.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    1. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Google and Youtube really does not care about fair use or the legal rights of their users."

      nitehawk214 does not care if you know if that is true, as he has no idea if it is or if it isn't, but he does hate Google, and will write whatever he can against them in hopes that he can sway your opinion of them.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    2. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      of course google only gives a shit about videos with millions of hits that bring in advertising dollars.

      and of course those will be the only ones to get any amount of legal support from google.

    3. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Google and Youtube really does not care about fair use or the legal rights of their users. All they care about is advertising money. Now that there are some alternatives to Youtube, big channels are threatening to leave if the flood of false DCMA notifications does not stop.

      Google and Youtube are doing the right thing. Does it matter if they are doing it for the right or wrong reason?

    4. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

      >> Google and Youtube really does not care about fair use or the legal rights of their users. All they care about is advertising money.

      Why is this marked "troll"? Google is an advertisement company, and if DCMA complaints drive the top channels away, they will lose money. So they kick their legal team in gear to protect revenue, which is a smart move for your average corporation, but sounds even better because they can talk about "fair use" etc. and get some PR cred out of it too.

    5. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by i_ate_god · · Score: 1

      so?

      Greed is inevitable, what's wrong with working with it instead of against it?

      --
      I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
    6. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by grimmjeeper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point is that there will be quite a number of fair use cases that end up not being defended in large part because the video (or the channel it's in) doesn't make any money for YouTube. Not only that, they'll probably throw some money at less-than-fully-legitimate fair use videos only because the video (or the channel it's in) does make money for YouTube. For better or worse, It's all about the money.

    7. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So Google does something good for selfish reasons. Let's hope they also stand firm on solid, backdoor-free encryption, if only for similarly selfish reasons.

    8. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      No, none of these vidoes individually make them enough money to be worth defending. What is costing them serious money, is dealing with the flood of illigitimate DMCA notices.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    9. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He doesn't have to sway people's opinions as it pretty much matches the situation. There are more and more alternatives to youtube popping up that don't let people rip off content creators by sending false DMCAs or false claims against videos to block advertising revenue the content creator should have received (Due to the whole fair use issue - so many instances of people getting claims on their videos because they even -mention- a game.)

      If Google cared about fair use, they wouldn't have the system they have that assumes large businesses are the only ones that can be trusted simply on their word, while the little guys have to jump through hoops to prove their innocence. (Which generally means jumping through hoops to get the big company to admit they were wrong.)

      Now that people are starting to abandon youtube over this bullshit, they actually have to act like they care. And that's what they're doing.

      tl;dr: If google cared, they would have done this YEARS ago when they were effectively the only game in town.

    10. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      In a capitalist world, is there anything wrong about protecting your own interest, especially if it is for the public's benefit too?

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    11. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's spot on. Google wants the videos and it doesn't want to pay for them. So it encourages piracy and skirting the law.

    12. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      "Google and Youtube really does not care about fair use or the legal rights of their users."

      nitehawk214 does not care if you know if that is true, as he has no idea if it is or if it isn't, but he does hate Google, and will write whatever he can against them in hopes that he can sway your opinion of them.

      strawman much?

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    13. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      My point is that they will only protect profitable channels, small fries will continue to get abused by the DCMA.

      From a corporate profits perspective this is the prudent thing to do, can't waste dollars protecting things that will never make money. Is it the right thing to do? I don't know. Most youtube content is complete crap, why bother protecting it?

      How do we decide what is worth protecting? This I really don't know.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    14. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      I wasn't really thinking this, but you do have a good point. I was more along the lines of abuse, things that either are fair use or are completely original content getting hit by the DCMA. Google/Youtube enables this, by allowing channels to be auto-banned with no human intervention. I have never heard of anyone getting punished for abusing this.

      It isn't just corporations too. Some Youtube users will DCMA anyone that makes a reply video to them if they don't like it. (read: the reply makes a valid point and makes the user look like an idiot)

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    15. Re: Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they'd just like to turn a profit on airtight fair use cases by winning fees for their in-house council.

    16. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by rhazz · · Score: 1

      Isn't it more likely the alternatives to Youtube just aren't big enough to attract the hordes of false DMCA claims yet? Or are Youtube's competitors putting their livelihoods on the line by ignoring the DMCA safe-harbor provisions? Maybe they are putting forward the ridiculous amount of resources required to individually investigate every request?

    17. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are making claims about what Google cares about without any evidence; Zero__Kelvin did the same with regard to you to make that point. By calling it a strawman you demonstrate that you completely missed the point.

    18. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      You clearly have no idea what a strawman is, or what you are even saying for that matter. A strawman attack would involve my attempting to discredit what you said by attacking who you are. That didn't happen.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    19. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Nope, that's an ad hominem.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    20. Re:Defense will be based on advertising dollars by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      "troll" mod is slashdotese for "i disagree"

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  2. rights should not depend on a Corporation charity by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Insightful
    That's what this is - a large corporation deciding to charitably pay huge amounts of money to defend it's customer's rights.

    While I understand their desire to do this, we need a legal system that does it automatically.

    Most privacy violations are clear. No one puts someone else's songs up there 'accidentally'.

    If all DMCA cases, we should have loser pays rule. Right now, the poster can be required to pay huge damages, so why shouldn't the claimant be required to pay double the court costs.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  3. All Google cares about is hits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see this as Google supporting its cash cows and leaving everyone else out to dry. I am not against Google playing favorites, but I question the move to defend some and not others doing the same thing in principle. Wrong is wrong, right is right Google. No gray areas.

    1. Re:All Google cares about is hits by Sowelu · · Score: 2

      And starting places are starting places.

    2. Re:All Google cares about is hits by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      The one minor flaw in your theory is that the "cash cows" are with those who have "been hung out to dry". The real problem is the flood of illegitimate take down requests caused by the fact there is no penalty for a "bad faith" applicant who is determined to drown their victims in paperwork.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  4. Re:rights should not depend on a Corporation chari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An idiot wou? (Your .sig)

  5. Between a rock and a hard place... by H3lldr0p · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That is entirely of their own making.

    They didn't need to create the ContentID system and allow it work the way it does. But they did.

    By law they needed a way to respond to DMCA notices but they didn't need to automate it. And now those chickens have come home to roost.

    All in all, Google stepping up to start sorting out this mess they made all by themselves is a good thing. I am hopeful they see it through by changing the way their system works and maybe taking out some of the automation that is one of the biggest problems with it. May they also push some sane legislation that will make it possible to do away with the worst abuses of the Notice system.

    1. Re:Between a rock and a hard place... by aitikin · · Score: 1

      They didn't need to create the ContentID system and allow it work the way it does. But they did.

      By law they needed a way to respond to DMCA notices but they didn't need to automate it. And now those chickens have come home to roost.

      I thought by law they had to have a way to respond within a certain timeframe, somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 hours? As such, doing so without automating would be so expensive that they would have need of charging every user for viewings or their ads would make the annoying click bait sites look good...

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    2. Re:Between a rock and a hard place... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This does not have anything to do with content ID.

      There's a serious problem where scumbags will target small-medium youtubers, steal and repost their videos, then file claims against the original owners. And they do it all in a more or less automated fashion.

      This is a tiny bit oversimplified but it's basically this, and a bunch of other related schemes. Point is it works because it's a pretty asymmetric attack. The scumbag has automation and volume and zero chance of being caught.

      Worse, all they have to do is steal traffic for a small amount of time. Many of these videos are topical and will generate the most views near when said topic is hot. (Like a new game, or a news event, or recently popular social topic/meme/whatever) In many cases delaying a video is as bad as killing it outright since it a late video about a hot topic will generate basically zero revenue for a youtuber.

      And it's not just about video theft. You can shut out competitors. You can harm others by depriving them of visibility and revenue.

      And you can censor criticism but harming the revenue of critics. - Yanking a video on a hot topic at the height of its 'hotness' is just as bad, revenue wise, as having it removed forever. That's enough of a threat to cause critics to censor themselves in some circumstances.

    3. Re:Between a rock and a hard place... by GuB-42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google had no choice.
      Originally, YouTube was fueled by piracy, but content owners didn't really care : low quality videos and YouTube didn't have enough money to make a lawsuit profitable.
      It changed the instant Google bought it. The content owners, now realizing that behind YouTube was sitting billions in cash quickly turned to Google and basically asked for their share. Google had no choice if they wanted to keep the service and not run it at a loss.

    4. Re:Between a rock and a hard place... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...doing so without automating would be so expensive that they would have need of charging every user for viewings or their ads would make the annoying click bait sites look good...

      Then those costs should be passed onto the ones making the DMCA complaints

    5. Re:Between a rock and a hard place... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't have anything to do with the ContentID system.

  6. Unfortunately... by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately it really looks like Google is indeed just "defending" certain videos rather than take the 'bad faith' accuser for every penny they've got ('bad faith' is e.g. taking down a video that has a recording of birds singing).

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    1. Re:Unfortunately... by suutar · · Score: 1

      proving bad faith (i.e. malice) is difficult, when so much can be explained through stupidity.

    2. Re:Unfortunately... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When there is a massive power imbalance, i.e. corporation vs. individual, the standard should really be recklessness or carelessness -- you have 14,000x as many resources as the person you're accusing, you can afford to take a few minutes to make sure the bug you're squashing is actually biting you. When a corporation shotguns takedowns and hits the short movie they licensed to make their big movie, it would be pretty easy to prove carelessness.

      Scant chance of that making it into law, of course.

  7. This won't help by dottrap · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This isn't going to affect anything. DMCA abusers still have financial incentives to continue abusing (by automatically diverting ad money to themselves on claimed videos) and have no financial disincentives to stop doing this. If it gets to the rare point where Google does step in, they can just release the video in question while simultaneously continue abusing a thousand other videos.

  8. Yeah, nice self publicity YouTube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:

    While we can’t offer legal protection to every video creator—or even every video that has a strong fair use defense—we’ll continue to resist legally unsupported DMCA takedowns as part of our normal processes.

    Call me back when they've made it their policy to protect every video that has a strong fair use defense.

    1. Re:Yeah, nice self publicity YouTube by JackieBrown · · Score: 4, Funny

      Call me back when they've made it their policy to protect every video that has a strong fair use defense.

      You forgot to list your phone number.

      Never mind, we can probably get it from Google.

  9. Dailymotion/Vimeo by BrookHarty · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've already seen people backing up and dual broadcasting due to DMCA takedowns on youtube. Most are podcasts or game reviewers that are getting DMCA take downs, and after 3 your account is removed. Scary. I have no loyalty to youtube or twitter, or any other service that decides to swing the ban hammer on content producers for political reasons hiding behind a DMCA takedown.

    1. Re:Dailymotion/Vimeo by Greyfox · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah, the Worth a Buy Shadow of Morder review alleges that Warner Brothers was threatening to issue DMCA takedowns to youtube reviewers who didn't have a branding agreement with Warner Brothers. I've been hearing similar allegations about other games from a number of reviewers. Obviously that didn't happen with Mack's video, as it's still up, but it highlights the kind of abuse that's possible under existing laws.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  10. Defend this! by vandelais · · Score: 1

    You know the rules and so do I
    A full commitment's what I'm thinking of
    You wouldn't get this from any other guy
    I just wanna tell you how I'm feeling
    Gotta make you understand

    Never gonna give you up
    Never gonna let you down
    Never gonna run around and desert you
    Never gonna make you cry
    Never gonna say goodbye
    Never gonna tell a lie and hurt you

    --
    Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
  11. Give me a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The videos in question are likely (coincidentally!) the ones Google makes the most ad revenue from. Not the content creators making revenue, but fucking Google. Whatever, Goog.

  12. Fair use? Best practice? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why the heck do you think we bought that law? That's about us being able to dictate what can and cannot be shown and at what terms, get lost with your "fair use" bull! The DMCA was helluva expensive, you can't take that away like that, who do you think you are?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Fair use? Best practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you take that away, we will have to sue the govt directly to recover the damages. Thanks TPP...

  13. What are they suppose to do by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Dailymotion is French (no DMCA) and Vimeo is owned by the media industry itself, and they're not going to sue themselves. The DMCA is pretty draconian. For google to hang on to it's safe harbor protections they've pretty much got to drop the ban hammer. It's the way the law was written. Don't like it? Write a letter (by hand) to your congresscritter.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:What are they suppose to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "For google to hang on to it's safe harbor protections they've pretty much got to drop the ban hammer."

      Yes, they do. HOWEVER, if the original content creator puts forth a counter-claim to the DMCA takedown notice, then they are free (And are suppose to) put the video back up - because at that point it goes to the courts between the two parties. They don't lose their safe harbour protections in these cases, or aren't suppose to. They aren't suppose to be the judge ruling who's telling the truth.

    2. Re:What are they suppose to do by jafiwam · · Score: 0

      "For google to hang on to it's safe harbor protections they've pretty much got to drop the ban hammer."

      Yes, they do. HOWEVER, if the original content creator puts forth a counter-claim to the DMCA takedown notice, then they are free (And are suppose to) put the video back up - because at that point it goes to the courts between the two parties. They don't lose their safe harbour protections in these cases, or aren't suppose to. They aren't suppose to be the judge ruling who's telling the truth.

      If google is going to leave the automated take down in place, they need to make it easy for the uploader to say "no, it's my stuff". Take downs are basically anonymous, that needs to stop. If you issue one, you should be serious about it. Google could say "ok, let's get your name, address, room in the basement, and lawyer on file, then you can issue a take down." I'd be willing to bet there won't be any lawyer information available, and that most of these take downs originate out side of the US where they have no merit anyway.

      DMCA only says it has to be offline until the host has passed the information to both parties. Automate that passing of information and the criminals issuing the illegitimate and ILLEGAL take down notices won't be able to do what they do, AND this allows legit claims to get to court where violations fair use, piracy, and defense of free speech can happen.

      This is EASY SHIT to do. Google is LAZY.

    3. Re:What are they suppose to do by edtice1559 · · Score: 1

      But most video producers don't have the resources to fight. So a DMCA takedown is essentially a death sentence for their content even if it is entirely non-infringing. What Google is saying is that if you are a little fish whose content gets flagged wrongly in a DMCA takedown, rather than fold, they will help you fight. This has the effect of increasing the cost of sending takedown notices and hopefully discourages the practice of sending the notice first and asking questions later.

  14. LOL! The answer is "no" by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    "Will this help stem the tide of bad DMCA takedown requests"

    No.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  15. Re:rights should not depend on a Corporation chari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most privacy violations are clear. No one puts someone else's songs up there 'accidentally'.

    WTF? That doesn't even make sense. MegaHAL, is that you?

  16. The FBI should be called in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The whole idea reminds me of the scene in Godfather, where a Hollywood mogul didn't tolerate an untalented actor nephew of Don Corleone, so the mafia hid a severed race-horse head into his bed to make him think again?

    Likely the mafia (RICO) here is Google (YT), the nephews are the copyright violators and the Hollywood execs are, well the Hollywood execs. Fighting organized crime is the domain of FBI.

    May I also mention that Google/YT seldom provides politicians with escort ladies and lads, thus Hollywood is more likely to win the legislative assembly's sympathy?

  17. Re:rights should not depend on a Corporation chari by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    While I understand their desire to do this, we need a legal system that does it automatically.

    Until people can choose among competing legal systems, for the best value, the monopoly systems will be for sale to the highest bidder (cf. history). Don't waste your time trying to fix the current monopoly system.

    The DMCA is the best copyright system Disney could buy (rest in pieces, Fritz Hollings). Maybe Google can buy a little bit back. And yes, this sucks.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  18. Randomize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some of those "select" should be randomly chosen from all the ones that are fairly clearly fair use, and that randomly-choosing policy published. Then those issuing illegitimate take-down requests can never be confident they won't be targeted.

  19. Uh oh by WallyL · · Score: 1

    Does that mean they can keep up my videos that don't violate copyright without me having to do anything?

  20. Download that video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to download that video you can do it easily to watch off-line. For more info watch here Download MP4