Slashdot Mirror


Reuters Bans RAW Photo Format (petapixel.com)

grcumb writes: Reuters is the latest agency to join the ranks of the technically clueless who think that ethical problems can be solved using technical means. They recently issued a circular to their contributors, stating in part: "In future, please don't send photos to Reuters that were processed from RAW or CR2 files. If you want to shoot raw images that's fine, just take JPEGs at the same time. Only send us the photos that were originally JPEGs, with minimal processing...." The problem they claim to be addressing is doctored images, but they don't explain how they plan to ensure that the JPEGs weren't simply exported from RAW files with their EXIF data altered, or heck, just altered as JPEG. They also assert that getting JPEG files straight from the camera is quicker, which is fair enough. Lots of professionals shoot with RAW+JPEG at newsworthy events. They can send the JPEGs off quickly to meet the first deadline, then process the RAW files at leisure for higher quality publications.

28 of 206 comments (clear)

  1. You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by retroworks · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A lot of executive decisions boil down to demands to solve a problem (e.g. photos may be doctored) and an executive deciding he has to "do something", else when it does blow up he did NOT do "something". For example, if an unknown terrorist might strike, it doesn't matter whether the action (ban refugees at a state level) actually matters, it's insurance that when something did happen that you demonstrated precaution. CYA

    --
    Gently reply
    1. Re:You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by Iamthecheese · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And it's an insult to my intelligence. What makes it more galling is the number of people this kind of ass covering pacifies. When a doctored photo slips through they'll say, "see, we did something but it happened anyway!" as though it's relevant. People are fucking retarded sometimes.

      --
      If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    2. Re:You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by hawguy · · Score: 3

      And it's an insult to my intelligence.

      It shouldn't be, since you were too dumb to RTFA. This has nothing to do with preventing doctoring. They are simply trying to streamline their workflow by standardizing on a single format.

      Did you RTFA before you called other people too dumb to RTFA?

      A Reuters spokesperson has confirmed this policy change with PetaPixel, and says that the decision was made to increase both ethics and speed.

      If they only wanted to streamline their workflow by standardizing on a single format, they could have just said "send us JPG's", rather than pretending that a JPG that says it came from a Canon EOS-1D actually did come from a Canon EOS-1d and wasn't post processed and faked to look like it came from the camera.

    3. Re:You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by x0ra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every single photo is doctored. Any photographer will only publish what he believes is the best light, best composition, taken with the right lens, etc.

    4. Re:You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't even need to post-process anything to make a fake photo.
      Just choose the right position to hide context from the photo, the right angle for emotional effect or simply ask people to do something or rearrange some objects.
      One could say that by even merely being present, a photographer influences the content of his photos.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    5. Re:You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Just choose the right position to hide context from the photo, the right angle for emotional effect or simply ask people to do something or rearrange some objects.

      Obligatory Calvin and Hobbes: http://filmmakeriq.com/images/calvin-hobbes-cameras-lie/

      Also, I'm guilty of this. Taking photos of my boys and carefully making sure the mess of toys isn't in the frame so that our house doesn't look like the mess it is.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    6. Re:You did Something vs. You didn't do Anything by monkeyhybrid · · Score: 2

      One could say that by even merely being present, a photographer influences the content of his photos.

      Especially with cat photos.

  2. If they are Doctoring, WHY do they work there? by Zymergy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a former photojournalist, I can saw that you simply blacklist them and/or fire them from being a contributor/stringer/staffer at that image bureau. There are ethical standards in the professional photography world, and it is nothing bad to those of us who upheld our high ethical standards to see someone get fired for unethically altering images and cheating and breaking the rules. I doubt this is as much a problem from a "who altered their photos?" problem as it is the photographers are submitting larger files (even if lossy down converted into JPG from RAW) and Reuters is having problems handling so many large files in their infrastructure and pushing photos out in distribution to their newsroom client "on the wire" servers. I know in my past when dealing with AP, if you uploaded a file that was too large they either rejected it, or WORSE, applied their lossy compression using whatever software they saw fit. When what your image looks like is everything to a shooter, and when a perfect images is ruined by crap third party compression due to file size, the lesson is hard learned and PJ folks are pretty savvy getting the best bang per MB.

  3. Re:Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by dohzer · · Score: 2, Funny

    What's a JPEG at -90% compression? Whoa. Mind blown.

  4. Terrible summary by Fwipp · · Score: 5, Informative

    They're not trying to prevent "doctored" images.

    The original memo reads:

    I’d like to pass on a note of request to our freelance contributors due to a worldwide policy change.. In future, please don’t send photos to Reuters that were processed from RAW or CR2 files. If you want to shoot raw images that’s fine, just take JPEGs at the same time. Only send us the photos that were originally JPEGs, with minimal processing (cropping, correcting levels, etc).

    And a follow-up quote reads

    While we aim for photography of the highest aesthetic quality, our goal is not to artistically interpret the news. [...] Speed is also very important to us. We have therefore asked our photographers to skip labour and time consuming processes to get our pictures to our clients faster.

    Which doesn't mean they're trying to prevent people from faking photos; as that line is clearly referring to the "minimal editing" part of the above guidelines, and the "JPG not RAW" is just for workflow-related reasons.

    1. Re:Terrible summary by ZipK · · Score: 2

      and the "JPG not RAW" is just for workflow-related reasons.

      But it's not "JPG not RAW," it's "originally JPG." If it's workflow-related, and the input to Reuters needs to be JPG, why would they care whether the JPG conversion took place in the camera or in off-camera RAW-to-JPG software?

    2. Re:Terrible summary by grcumb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      While we aim for photography of the highest aesthetic quality, our goal is not to artistically interpret the news. [...] Speed is also very important to us. We have therefore asked our photographers to skip labour and time consuming processes to get our pictures to our clients faster.

      Which doesn't mean they're trying to prevent people from faking photos; as that line is clearly referring to the "minimal editing" part of the above guidelines, and the "JPG not RAW" is just for workflow-related reasons.

      Yes, they're being euphemistic and mashing over-processing in with outright manipulation, because I doubt Reuters would win a lot of friends among the professional photography establishment if they implied that their contributors were a bunch of crooks.

      But the point of the thing is that 'minimal editing' has nothing to do with the format you capture your images in. And furthermore, it's easier to track 'minimal editing' with RAW than it is in JPEG, because editing tools actually maintain an audit trail of sorts. The bottom line is that the measure does nothing to get them where they want to go, except in the minds of a few not-so-sophisticated editors.

      Full disclosure: I'm media director of the newspaper of record in a small country, a news photographer who has contributed to wire services, and a geek. I also wrote this submission. And I do not find it one iota easier to manage JPEG files than RAW in our newspaper's workflow. In fact, JPEG is a pain the ass compared to RAW, especially when you're targeting multiple media with the same image. Because the shot you upload to your website is going to be significantly different in size, colour and compression from the one that goes to pre-press. If you take them both from the same canonical source (or Nikonical source, if that's your poison), then life is much, much easier.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:Terrible summary by JoeyRox · · Score: 2

      They are trying to prevent doctored images. From the article:

      "A Reuters spokesperson has confirmed this policy change with PetaPixel, and says that the decision was made to increase both ethics and speed."

    4. Re:Terrible summary by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Because it takes time for the photog to convert the image in off-camera RAW-to-JPG software. It is faster to just give them the JPG right off the camera. They even said why: IT IS FASTER TO GET THE IMAGES TO THE CLIENT.

      Horsepucky. Even with a Nikon D800 - one of the highest megapixel 'professional' cameras out there, it takes perhaps 10-15 seconds for any reasonably spec'd laptop to process a RAW file into a JPEG. And as a further bonus, each RAW file carries a (smallish) JPEG built into it that can be extracted automatically.

      So speed is not an important aspect of this argument.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:Terrible summary by grcumb · · Score: 2

      "And I do not find it one iota easier to manage JPEG files than RAW in our newspaper's workflow."

      You missed the entire point of the requirement: TO GET THE IMAGES FASTER TO THE CLIENT.

      Did you miss the part where I say I run a daily newspaper? I know the argument for speed. I also know it's bogus, because I live with deadlines every day. And I like RAW better, because I save time when it comes to managing the image across multiple media and platforms.

      In those rare cases when even minutes matter, any self-respecting photographer will shoot in RAW+JPEG. Heck, in rare cases, I'll just shoot from my phone and upload instantaneously. But those are exceptional cases, and don't constitute a compelling reason for a total ban on RAW.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    6. Re:Terrible summary by grcumb · · Score: 2

      Your daily newspaper pales in comparison. We are talking about GLOBAL SPEED. They deliver pictures to clients all over the world. Tens of thousands of pictures every day. Clients expect pictures within an hour of the event. THEY DON'T WANT you to manage the image across multiple media and platforms. They just want the JPG from your camera. Fast. They don't want your 20 MB RAW image. They want 8MB JPG. Fast.

      Newspapers have websites these days. Everyone works at, uh 'GLOBAL SPEED'. I've covered global news events and delivered scoops. I still shoot RAW, and if Reuters doesn't like it, I'm sure AFP will be happy to have my pics. Frankly, I think wire services in general are ripe for a tech invasion. Reuters' cranial anal insertion is just more evidence of the need for it.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    7. Re:Terrible summary by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      More to the point, you can't readily doctor RAWs. So if their goal is ethics, they should require a RAW file to be submitted with every JPEG, so that they can later verify that it really is possible to get that JPEG from that RAW file. If their goal is to doctor reality and distort the truth, then by all means, require photographers to submit only JPEG images that can be readily faked.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  5. Re:Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by afgam28 · · Score: 2, Informative

    No. Processing raw files involves more than just compression, it includes things like demosaicing and setting white balance.

  6. Size & standards, not doctoring by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am pretty sure the real issue is file size and standards, not doctoring. As manufacturers keep ridiculously upping sensor MP size, photo sizes continue to balloon to larger and larger sizes. RAW files are notoriously huge and non-standard. The extra processing they are referring to is probably just the need to convert those various RAW files back to JPEG, which takes/wastes time/energy by their staff.

    You would have to be a pretty big idiot to think that JPEG files are harder to doctor than RAW files. Any photo format can be used when exporting a doctored image... has nothing to do with how it is saved.

  7. Re: Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by cdecoro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image?

    It would be close but not exact. The way you would get close is to set the 8x8 quantization matrix to all 1's. In JPEG compression, the image is divided into 8x8 blocks, discrete cosine transformed, elementwise divided by an 8x8 quantization matrix, rounded to the nearest integer, and then (usually) Huffman encoded. The primary problem with being perfectly lossless is that the DCT produces a fractional result. So even if you set the quantization matrix to all 1's, the rounding step would lose information.

    Care to enlighten me as to how one sets jpeg compression to 0%?

    It's not easy to do in most image editors; even the highest (12) quality setting in Photoshop has quantization. You can do it in ImageMagick, however.

    Also, no, RAW formats are not simply uncompressed, but largely unprocessed data as well (certainly less processed than what you get from an out of camera tif or jpf.)

    Raw formats are indeed compressed; they're just losslessly compressed.

    Finally, there is a true lossless JPEG format, though it is distinct from the usual JPEGs.

  8. Save as BMP by jfdavis668 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Make them think it was doctored by a child.

  9. Clueless J-school idiots by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Informative

    They have no idea how real photography works. JPG is a 'final' format. You capture an image on an SLR as RAW so you get all of the information the sensor can give you, and then you process it to pull the JPGs you want to give to the user of your shots. In journalism, many photographs are taken under marginal conditions, such as four stops below optimum in a sandstorm. Shooting RAW gives you the most latitude to recover usable images that might give us the ability to identify a terrorist. You can apply high dynamic range processing to a single RAW frame to show detail not recoverable any other way, and given a bracket of five RAW frames one stop apart, even handheld, you can postprocess them into a great picture.

    Yes, today's journalism photography is being done with many devices that shoot JPG as their native mode, and as any photographer will tell you, the best camera in the world is the one you have with you. But anyone who prohibits high-detail RAW imagery is a person who does not deserve to be in journalism. Manufacturers have responded to the phone-photography challenge with formats like Micro Four Thirds, which gives you SLR versatility in a compact body and lens format that you can take to wherever the news is being made.

    1. Re:Clueless J-school idiots by x0ra · · Score: 2

      please stop with that "identify the terrorist" argument, it has become the new "save the children"...

  10. Re:Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by khellendros1984 · · Score: 2

    A camera sensor is arranged like this. The sensing elements aren't paired up with 1 red, 1 green, and 1 blue, and the values stored by the elements have a larger range than the values in a JPEG (0-4096, say, instead of 0-255). A RAW image is essentially a direct dump from the image sensor, minimally processed and stored in a known format (CR2 is an example). A rasterized image is rendered from the raw data (includes white balancing and other processing), and then it's encoded into a standard image format (usually JPEG).

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  11. Great idea by iamacat · · Score: 2

    The whole purpose of shooting raw images is to do advanced processing later. However, any such processing involves creative choice which alters the image to the taste of the person doing the processing. It's easy to alter the white point and have some journalistically important details lost in the shadows.

    Also in a high stakes case suspected forgery, it may be possible to detect forged images by looking at minute noise and encoding choices made by a particular camera model. Faking these details well enough to fool the experts would be beyond the expertise of most would-be forgers.

    Of course, Reuters could ask for RAW files themselves and have even more fidelity/authentication potential. But those files are huge, many journalists do not have a fast internet connection where they work, and the publisher would need expertise on RAW workflows.

    All in all, I think it's a reasonable decision and will be successful against unintentional/unconscious alterations and causual forgery.

  12. Re: Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would suspect that "often" is really "always". A typical Canon RAW file, for example, has 14 bits per pixel. Because of the extra precision, the effective dynamic range of a RAW file is dramatically wider than the dynamic range of a JPEG image. For example, if you have the following samples in the RAW image:

    65500, 65532, 65515, 65533, 65473, 65535

    And you convert that to JPEG, you'll get:

    255, 255, 255, 255, 255, 255

    Iff you later need to pull the highs down to make them less blown out, if you're starting with the RAW image, you'll get a fairly accurate rendition of those values (up to the limits of the sensor), whereas if you start with the JPEG image, you'll get white blotches, because there's no detail there to recover. For recovering highlights and/or shadows, JPEG doesn't even come close to RAW, and can't. There's just too much data lost.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  13. Re: Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by SharpFang · · Score: 2

    To answer in a more technical way (than "use ImageMagick").

    JPEG encoding inherently can be completely lossless. 8x8 pixel squares of pixel values are converted to 8x8 matrices of frequency components - transforming the representation of data as a superposition of specific sine waves of fixed set of frequencies and parametrized amplitudes. Due to small area and range of values being covered, this mapping is lossless - the data is sufficient to recreate the exact image, errors of the "floating point nature" of sine waves being less than 1 bit of value representation.

    Then, depending on the settings of the software - the "compression rate", the parameters of lowest values and of highest frequencies are replaced by zeros. The "quality" parameter decides how many, and how significant ones. Unlike with direct value function which would leave black pixels, with sine waves this leaves the characteristic "artifacts" of JPEG, a kind of wavy imprecision along any sharp edges, some colors being misrepresented etc. This is not very visible to human eye, and you can get away with zeroing half and more of the parameters without significantly altering the perceived image.

    And then this is compressed using a standard lossless data compression.

    The gain comes from the fact that strings of zeros, repeating zeros and such compress very well - much better than "random" data of standard image.

    Of course if you don't strip any zeros and keep all the values, JPEG will be lossless and you won't gain anything size-wise, the compression being equivalent to standard lossless ones. And still you can lose relative to RAW, because the original (input) data uses 8-bit color channels, so 3 8x8 matrices of bytes per one "block". RAW can keep much more bits per pixel.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  14. Re:Is a JPEG at 0% compression a RAW image? by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 2

    You can think of it, very basically, as Reuters insisting on a 4x6 physical print, rather than wanting the negative.

    In this analogy, it's easier to work with the print than the negative, but if you want to scan it back to digital, blow it up, whatever, you're losing quality. With the negative, you have more work to do, but you have a higher-quality starting point, and you can do all sorts of work with it and get far better results than by working from the 4x6 print.

    --
    Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.