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Florida Group Wants To Make Space a 2016 Presidential Campaign Issue (examiner.com)

MarkWhittington writes: According to a story on News 13, an Orlando TV station, Space Florida is working to make space a political issue in the 2016 presidential election. Thus far the campaign for the presidency has been dominated by more mundane issues such as the economy, illegal immigration, and the threat of terrorism. Space Florida, which is "the State of Florida's aerospace economic development agency," is said to be "working with three other battleground states to make sure America's space program is a part of the campaign for president." Presumably one of those states is Texas, which has lots of electoral votes

43 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. Won't have to work hard by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They won't have to work hard, considering "space" has been an issue for every election as long as I've been able to pay attention to elections.

    Like four years ago......as soon as it was time for the Florida primaries, every candidate started talking about their space plan. After the Florida primary was over? Never mentioned again.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Won't have to work hard by unixisc · · Score: 1

      On the GOP side, there are quite a number of candidates who are opposed to any Federal spending in space until the budget mess is fixed. In fact, this cycle, I'm not sure that there is anybody who actively supports a Federally run space program.

    2. Re:Won't have to work hard by haruchai · · Score: 2

      Perhaps America is ready for President Newt "Moonbase" Gingrich.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    3. Re:Won't have to work hard by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Candidates and presidents promise grandiose things like Mars-nauts or moon-bases, but don't bother to fund them. They want to give Kennedy-esque speeches but don't want to pay Kennedy's bill.

    4. Re:Won't have to work hard by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yeap. And they don't care as long as it gets them votes.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Won't have to work hard by packrat0x · · Score: 1

      TV13 News is a partnership between Bright House Networks of Central Florida (cable TV and ISP provider) and the Orlando Sentinel
      (major local newspaper).
      They are, shall we say, left of center.

      --
      227-3517
  2. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As it should be. Space travel and exploration are the future of the human species. Politicians not giving it priority are either in denial or ignorant of this fact, in which case they are foolish, or simply don't care, in which case they are psychotic. Humanity's long term plan should always be a focus.

    1. Re:Good by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Space travel and exploration are the future of the human species."

      Oh, bullshit. Not for the next presidential term, not for the next century, probably not for the next millennium. If you think investment in space is more important than, say, ensuring the future habitability of Earth, you are foolish, or simply don't care, in which case you are psychotic.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:Good by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 1

      Well, that must explain why there's so many dinosaurs around.

      If you think investment in space is more important than, say, ensuring the future habitability of Earth

      I was unaware those were mutually exclusive.

    3. Re:Good by msauve · · Score: 1

      "Well, that must explain why there's so many dinosaurs around."

      Because they elected a president who cut funding for their space program?

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  3. What the fuck is with the snark by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

    I dont understand the authors snarky tone when writing this. Space travel and exploration is important on so many levels, one of which is the economy! It baffles methat someone would try to negatively spin space exploration as a important issue on slashdot, especially with their already tiny an evershrinking budget.

    1. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by rsmith-mac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I dont understand the authors snarky tone when writing this

      The snark is that it's a pretty transparent attempt to get more pork for their state. Florida, Alabama, and Texas are the three states with major NASA facilities, and there are a lot of contractors who work in those states to support NASA.

      Space travel is important. But a group whose business depends on government pork is likely not the most impartial group to be delivering that message. Porking NASA is how we got the Senate Launch System in the first place; NASA doesn't really want it, but it's being forced upon them by senators who want to keep government contracts in their state.

    2. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      I once worked for Rockwell-Collins in the states - I started there shortly after the NASA "incident". What incident? Apparently they were caught - after doing it for many years - billing everything to the shuttle, as a matter of corporate policy. Unlike most contracts Rockwell-Collins gets, there was no cap on the Shuttle project budget. So whenever any project ran over, they just billed the engineers' time to the Shuttle. ;)

      NASA does some great stuff in terms of R&D and robotic exploration. But their culture is not a good matchup for developing launch systems, whether in-house or through contractors.

      --
      Hello from Sputnik 2. I am receiving you.
    3. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      Then it should be towards Florida instead of space exploration.

    4. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      Space travel and exploration is important on so many levels,

      And that's why it shouldn't be left to Florida legislators or government military contractors.

    5. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Well, let SpaceX run it. There is no reason for NASA to get taxpayer money, given the trillions of $$$ debt. In fact, privatize NASA, and then let them figure out how to run a business

    6. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by meglon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, because every time you privatize something, the costs go up. Businesses call it: profit.

      I seriously wish all the fucking asswipes who hate this country, and society in general, would do humanity a favor and go fucking live on their own out in the woods till they realize that they ain't shit without society being there for them; fucking ungrateful little inbred brain-dead whiny bitches. What we need to do is kick all the worthless fucking trash politicians out of government who actively try to destroy our government from the inside. Fucking anarchists.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    7. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by Solandri · · Score: 1

      More to the point, the budget (and economy) is mostly in the hands of Congress. The President only suggests a budget, Congress hashes out the details (they can completely ignore his suggestion if they want). The President can then approve the entire thing or veto it. He has no power to influence a single particular budget item, it's all or nothing.

      The Executive branch's powers focus mostly on law enforcement (illegal immigration, NSA monitoring, etc) and foreign relations (including responses to terrorism). So yeah, those "mundane" issues are in fact the ones which are relevant when talking about the Presidency, not budget stuff like space policy. Attempting to make a big deal of space policy is just trying to vet the candidate as someone who will cave into the demands of Senators and Congressmen from states which stand to gain from a bigger NASA budget.

    8. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Like someone else said elsewhere in this page, you Liberals voted for an agenda where spending trillions on Obamacare was important, and Space was nowhere in the list. So no need to moon people who suggest where Space enthusiasts should go. Given the national debt and priorities like National Security, the economy, healthcare and so on, it's gonna be a while before any government - (D) or (R) - can fund anything going on in space. So privatizing it is one way to ensure that it stays - if it remains under the government, it can't be funded, b'cos you'll then have the 'why are we sending this shuttle to Mars/Moon/Venus when we could get some highway repairs in _____ (fill in the state where you live) done.

    9. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by meglon · · Score: 1

      Jesus... seriously... is there no conservative out there who has enough integrity to imply not fucking lie? Us liberals didn't vote to spend trillions on the ACA because TRILLIONS HAVEN'T AND WON'T BE SPENT ON IT. Pull your head out of your ass. And YES, it was fucking important to people that actually care about their fellow citizens to do what they could to see they could get the medical care they might need, as opposed to the fucked up conservatives who would rather see people just die. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      As for NASA not being in Obama's budgets... are you a fucking idiot? Of course it's there. It's too damn small, just like it's been since the late 1970's, but it's still there. The people wondering why not highways instead of space exploration are those people who are too fucking stupid to realize that dollar for dollar, NASA has had the biggest impact on innovation and economic growth of any government agency. And lets be clear.... the lifetime cost for the F-35 program, a plane that can't do a damn thing that it needed to do, is massively over budget and a decade behind schedule, could fund NASA for like 70-80 years at it's current level. The problem is there are a lot of cowardly politicians who prefer to have a global military hegemony so they can control everything rather than work for the betterment of humanity... and those asswipes continue to spend massive amounts for a military that we, quite frankly, should not have.

      But lets make sure we get this straight.... privatization ALWAYS increases costs, and only blind deaf idiots miss the point where the government covers those costs AND MORE through new "subsidies" for the corporations who now have control over what SHOULD BE working for the people of this country. Look at what happened to Medicare B. It is the poster child for what shit happens when "privatization" happens. Services go down, costs go up, everyone's screwed except the corporations.

      You want the national debt taken care of.. that's easy.. vote in democrats. Every time we get republicans in there, the debt skyrockets, economic growth slows, and job creation drops. Don't take my word for it, actually look up the numbers. See if reality can penetrate your blind partisan bullshit.

      We need a lot less military in every other country in the world, and a lot more basic infrastructure and r&d here at home.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    10. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing:
      The existence of NASA is totally irrelevant to whether SpaceX can get the Billion$ necessary to go to Mars through the private market.

      In a lot of ways extra NASA spending would help SpaceX get to Mars because they'd probably be able to piggy-back on some of NASA's efforts (ie: a NASA contractor develops a great new rocket technology with government money, that it then sells to SpaceX), but there's no way it hurts it.

      Hell, if we declare that the government can't do shit with $15 Billion a year, who is going to spend $15 Billion a year of his own private money trying it? Moreover a lot of things the government does are actually cheaper then when the private market does them do to economies of scale.

      For example, it makes sense for the Feds to have a unified retirement system and Civil Service rules that are relatively pro-employee simply due to the number of employees, and the fact that if you increase their retention even 0.5% you have saved a lot of money. One private space company can't do that. Which means it has to pay it's employees (particularly high level people) a premium to compensate them for their risk of losing this gig with no notice, the lack of a pension, etc.

    11. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yes, because every time you privatize something, the costs go up. Businesses call it: profit.

      The two are different concepts. Government organisations can be run for profit and many around the world are. Likewise it's possible to increase profit without increasing the cost to the end user by reducing waste, that is one thing the government has LOTs of. You just don't see it because your tax bill isn't itemised as well as a shareholder quarterly report.

      There's good reason to privatise a lot of what many governments do. But there's also good reasons NOT to privatise anything critical enough to require insulating from the profit motive, i.e. essential utilities. NASA is not one of those in my view.

    12. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by unixisc · · Score: 2

      We had 8 years of you Dems. The national debt should be near zero, not in the trillions. Rest of what you wrote is just horsemanure.

    13. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      I seriously wish all the fucking asswipes who hate this country, and society in general, would do humanity a favor and go fucking live on their own out in the woods

      I immigrated to this country precisely because it still has less government and more individual liberty than other nations. I would prefer it if people like you didn't turn it into the kind of depressing paternalistic dump that I came from.

      What I don't get is why people like you don't do the reverse: go to Europe, where government is as socialist and progressive as you apparently like it to be. Europe has a big shortage of skilled worker and a huge demographic problem, so if you can write "Hello World", they basically roll out the red carpet for you.

    14. Re:What the fuck is with the snark by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      But lets make sure we get this straight.... privatization ALWAYS increases costs, and only blind deaf idiots miss the point where the government covers those costs AND MORE through new "subsidies" for the corporations who now have control over what SHOULD BE working for the people of this country. Look at what happened to Medicare B. It is the poster child for what shit happens when "privatization" happens. Services go down, costs go up, everyone's screwed except the corporations.

      Your analysis is essentially correct. What you fail to understand that that kind of "privatization" like that has little to do with free markets, it is simple government corruption. That is, people are forced to pay for Medicare part B (or the space program or whatever), and then politicians take that money and hand it to corporations and special interests they are in bed with. And the Democrats are engaging in that kind of corruption even more than Republicans. In an actual free market, you get to choose whether you spend your money at all and what to spend it on. "Privatization" in the sense used by you and Democrats doesn't result in that kind of market.

      See if reality can penetrate your blind partisan bullshit.

      You should take your own advice to heart, because you are a complete fool if you believe that Democrats deliver what you want them to deliver. Democrats are completely beholding to corporate interests, Wall Street, and special interests, and they want to raise taxes and spending to hand out ever more money to their corporate cronies.

      I used to vote Democratic until I figured out what a sham and fraud the Democrats actually were. Now I'm an independent.

  4. Will not work by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Oh, they can get empty promises, but that's it.

    But the GOP is in control of the purse strings and they want to de-fund even essential services. No way will they invest in the future without another space race. Our current enemies are terrorists who can't come close to racing against us.

    No competition = no race = no funding for space.

    The only way I could it happening is if we had first contact of some kind. So I put the odds at about a 100 million to one, against.

    I'm more likely to win every single lottery and put all the funds toward a trips to mars.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Will not work by khallow · · Score: 1

      But the GOP is in control of the purse strings and they want to de-fund even essential services.

      Right, must not be essential then.

    2. Re: Will not work by meglon · · Score: 2

      And if you fucked on the head neo-cons would quit trying to build and maintain a worldwide military hegemony, the US AND the world would be a better place. Fucking coward.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    3. Re: Will not work by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      And if you fucked on the head neo-cons would quit trying to build and maintain a worldwide military hegemony, the US AND the world would be a better place. Fucking coward.

      If you think that's just "neo-cons", you really haven't been paying attention. I used to vote for Democrats because they promised to reduce "US worldwide military hegemony", but those promises turned out to be empty. Obama's actual record vs. his promises is abysmal.

      In fact, blind Democratic partisanship has sapped the strength of the anti-war movement. Apparently, as long as Democrats get "their man" into office, it doesn't really matter what he does.

  5. what a maroon by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    this post is a cartoon.

  6. Makes sense as a campaign issue ... by MacTO · · Score: 1

    Looking at the issues mentioned in the summary:

    - economy: the government does not have direct control over the economy. At best, they can hope to attempt to influence economic development. Yet they cannot make promises.
    - illegal immigration: the government does not have direct control over illegal immigration. At best, they can hope to attempt to deter illegal immigration through expensive or draconian policies. Again, they cannot make promises.
    - terrorism: the government does not have direct control over terrorism. At best, they can make the life of terrorists harder but they cannot hope to stop terrorist activity and detecting it is extraordinarily difficult. Once again, they cannot make promises.

    - space: the government does have direct control over federal agencies (e.g. NASA) and its contractors. While they cannot violate the laws of physics, they can certainly have fairly reliable results if they consult with scientists, engineers, and administrators to ascertain what is realistic. In other words, they can make promises.

    Incidentally, none of this is specific to space exploration. Figuring out what you have some degree of control over should be one of the things that anyone considers when evaluating campaign promises.

    1. Re:Makes sense as a campaign issue ... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      " the government does not have direct control over terrorism."

      The government has no direct control over its own behavior? Oh, you meant all terrorism not perpetrated by US.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    2. Re:Makes sense as a campaign issue ... by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

      economy: the government does not have direct control over the economy [...] Incidentally, none of this is specific to space exploration. Figuring out what you have some degree of control over should be one of the things that anyone considers when evaluating campaign promises

      Which means that if a candidate promises that under his government, the economy would do X, while under his opponent's government, the economy would do Y, we should consider that candidate a liar. Yet, we keep electing such liars based on the false promises they make. Obama won in large part because of that, and Sanders is also running on such promises.

  7. Netflix wants to remake "Lost in Space" by Snufu · · Score: 1

    Florida wants to remake "Meat in Space."

    Both programs have roughly equivalent scientific value. Unmanned stuff, on the other hand makes a lot of sense.

  8. Re:Ted Cruz by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Space is really low in the priority list, when the other things on the agenda are the economy/jobs, the national debt, national security, healthcare and so on. Which is why I suggested taking it out of government completely, so that interested people can focus on it, w/o taxpayers getting involved.

  9. Re: Of course those racists... by unixisc · · Score: 1

    And that is why Repukians are so pro-NASA.

    So which Republicans do you see actively promoting a Space Program? Not Ryan or McConnell. Not Trump. Not Carson. Not Cruz. Not Rubio. Not Carly. Not Jeb. Not Christie. So who do you see suggesting it?

  10. Re:Space is survival. by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1

    Unless humanity leaves the prison planet we will all die.

    I have news for you, even if humanity leaves this planet, we will all die.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  11. " ... one of which is the economy!" by slimdave · · Score: 1

    Which is tantamount to saying that it's important that the government just spends money, regardless of the end purpose, no?

  12. That's because the plan is ass-backwards. by hey! · · Score: 1

    It's pointless to try to get the politicians to care until after you've got the voters to care.

    "Care" of course means more than agreeing in principle that having a space exploration plan would be a good thing; it means when progress doesn't happen you get upset. Most people think some kind of space exploration plan would be a good thing, but very few care when it doesn't happen.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  13. Re:We need to talk nuclear power too then by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

    We are not going to send people to space with an economy based on "green" energy like wind and solar.

    Do you think the people who favor "green energy" care? To them, anybody who talks of space exploration is a "space nutter".

  14. If people in Florida were not so fat, by dsmatthews9379 · · Score: 1

    they wouldn't need more space.

  15. Re:Ted Cruz by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    It's had to do that. The current money making space activities are:

    1) Launching spy satellites.

    2) Launching communication/GPS satellites.

    The first is entirely government based, the second is something the governments wants to keep a very close eye/ear on/in.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  16. Government and satellites by unixisc · · Score: 1

    The first one can be a part of the CIA budget - NASA doesn't have to be the one involved. The second should belong to the Verizons and AT&Ts, and they could work partnership deals w/ SpaceX to launch their satellites. Get that out of government and politicians need no longer agonize over whether to spend money on space vs food stamps