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Sabotage Blacks Out Millions In Crimea

HughPickens.com writes: In a preview of what the U.S. may one day face with cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid, Ivan Nechepurenko reports at the NY Times that power lines in southern Ukraine that supply Crimea have been knocked down by saboteurs, leaving millions without electricity. Four local power plants, including two nuclear ones, scaled back production because they had no means to distribute electricity. More than 1.6 million people still lacked power on Monday morning, Russia's Energy Ministry said in a statement. Local power plants in Crimea, as well as backup generators, were being used to provide power to hospitals, schools and other vital facilities. The Crimean authorities declared Monday a day off for non-government workers and declared a state of emergency, which can last as long as one month.

It was not immediately clear who destroyed the main electric pylons on Friday and Sunday, but the blasted-away stump of at least one tower near the demonstrators was wrapped in the distinctive blue Crimean Tatar flag with a yellow trident in the upper left-hand corner. Tatar activists blockaded the site, saying they would prevent repairs until Russia released political prisoners and allowed international organizations to monitor human rights in Crimea. The activists claim that the 300,000-member minority has faced systematic repression since Russia annexed the peninsula in March 2014. In the meantime Russia is building an "energy bridge" to Crimea that officials hope will supply most of the peninsula's need and its first phase will begin operating by the end of this year.

Defending the power grid in the United States is challenging from an organizational point of view. There are about 3,200 utilities, all of which operate a portion of the electricity grid, but most of these individual networks are interconnected. The latest version of The Department of Defense's Cyber Strategy has as its third strategic goal, "Be prepared to defend the U.S. homeland and U.S. vital interests from disruptive or destructive cyberattacks of significant consequence."

156 comments

  1. Hm, yes, similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Surely blowing something up is similar to a cyberattack!

    1. Re:Hm, yes, similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Absolutely! This is exactly the kind of cyberattack they would have used in the 1930's.

    2. Re:Hm, yes, similar by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Could it be a revenge attack by these guys?
      http://qha.com.ua/en/society/g...

    3. Re:Hm, yes, similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! And it is just as certain as our public utilities being totally exposed, what with their critical controls public-facing on the web and without security. Won't someone do something about the security!

      I am not sure which I resent more, the crappy journalists or the apathetic morons who keep them employed.

    4. Re:Hm, yes, similar by MiniMike · · Score: 4, Funny

      It was not immediately clear who destroyed the main electric pylons on Friday and Sunday...

      Maybe they were using networking over power lines, and somebody (evil hacker!) arranged a DDOS such that all of the packets arrived at that pylon at the same time, causing that pylon to explode?

      Did anyone else have the image of the phrase "You Must Construct Additional Pylons!" (or the local equivalent) being repeated over and over all over Crimea after this happened?

    5. Re:Hm, yes, similar by rhazz · · Score: 2

      YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS.

      sigh, stupid filter ruining the feel of this post by forcing me to add lowercase letters...

    6. Re:Hm, yes, similar by mellon · · Score: 1

      Plus, seriously, the U.S. is like Crimea? We have been invaded by a foreign power, with support from some citizens and opposition from others? I'm sorry, but there is literally no commonality between the two cases other than that both of them nominally involve the interruption of electrical power delivery. This isn't analysis: it's fear-mongering.

    7. Re:Hm, yes, similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never turn your back on a Canadian. They have big plans.

    8. Re:Hm, yes, similar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What could it be?
      It's a mirage
      you're schemin' on a thing,
      that's sabotage!

    9. Re:Hm, yes, similar by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Electronic warfare

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  2. What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "In a preview of what the U.S. may one day face with cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid"

    What the hell does physical sabotage have to do with cyberattacks? Who's behind the spin on this story and what is their agenda?

    1. Re:What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What the hell does physical sabotage have to do with cyberattacks?

      Um, maybe it's because a cyberattack IS a form of sabotage, and because in either case the grid goes down, with similar consequences. Just guessin'...

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    2. Re:What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 0

      What the hell does physical sabotage have to do with cyberattacks? Who's behind the spin on this story and what is their agenda?

      Ask Hugh the nose picker... He's the one who invented it with the express intent to get people who didn't RTFA to draw conclusions that were never actually articulated.

    3. Re:What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by chmod+a+x+mojo · · Score: 1

      It does make some sense in a way: most, if not all, of the U.S. power grid is heavily interconnected and controlled by networked computer. If the computer network would be compromised, and this is much "safer" and easier than physically severing connections, it would actually be rather simple to induce a cascade failure that takes down a significant portion of the nationwide grid. It is even possible that the cascade could be designed to significantly overload substations and interconnects past what the breakers are designed to handle, making it much easier to destroy essential equipment.

      That doesn't hide the fact that there is almost no physical security pretty much anywhere other than the actual power generation facilities, but it is an area where concern should be had.

      --
      To err is human; effective mayhem requires the root password!
    4. Re:What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      What it's like to take down a power grid. The cause would be different but the result the same. Sometimes you need to think - you can't be spoon fed all the time.

    5. Re:What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "In a preview of what the U.S. may one day face with cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid"

      What the hell does physical sabotage have to do with cyberattacks? Who's behind the spin on this story and what is their agenda?

      Their agenda is clearly to get policymakers to fund cyber security and then quickly funnel that money to physical security where it is actually needed... or wait maybe they just want the money for cyber security because cyber security is almost completely unaccountable. But that is so cynical that can't be right...

    6. Re:What kind of Terrist-Fearin' FUD is this? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      The consequences in common are that the power goes out. Couldn't we have guessed that already? Perhaps the important discovery is that it'll mean a vacation day?

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
  3. Hmm those "preppers" by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

    maybe there's something to those guys after all.

    1. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 2

      Oh sure. The best thing to do in case of a power outage is to go alone into the woods with a hunting knife, a backpack, two guns, and no antibiotics. Then live the rest of your life in a cave.

    2. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nahhh, just get an RV. It will prep you for all the likely worst consequences, and gives you a fun recreational toy as well.

        - Extended power outage? Last one, I just lived in my RV in the driveway for the day/night. It's designed to be useful without power, and I have a generator for it, too.
        - Imminent flooding/big storm? Drive somewhere with your RV and at least you're warm and cozy. Sucks that your house is ruined, but there's always insurance, right?
        - Riots/civil disturbance? So long as it didn't make it to your house yet, again, go for an RV trip to elsewhere.

      Yes, all the RV parks nearby will fill up. Just live in Walmart's parking lot for a night or two.

      Yeah, it won't get you through all out Armageddon. Some things aren't worth the effort, to be honest, and living in a wasteland isn't something that's worth the effort to me. Surviving comfortably elsewhere through a hurricane at home, however, is high up on my list.

    3. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm not a prepper, but your characterization is amusing. Perhaps you'd find comfort in knowing that people like you are always welcome in Kim Jong-Un's paradise, where all your needs are taken care of.

    4. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've learned that characterization from watching lots of prepper videos on Youtube.

    5. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The Preppers are planning for something worse than a power outage. They are prepping for the time it doesn't come back on.

    6. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      No.

      Get a 4x4 (not a mall utility vehicle, a good one; Dodge, Toyota, Rover), a mountain bike, a backpack and contents to hike the back country.

      Much more fun toy and much more useful 'shit hits fan' tools.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The Preppers are planning for something worse than a power outage. They are prepping for the time it doesn't come back on.

      I thought they were prepping for the time when the zombie apocalypse happens?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    8. Re:Hmm those "preppers" by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Their reasons vary, and the effectiveness of their prepping certainly can be questioned, but it's all for something a bit worse than a power outage. Superplague, nuclear war, UN takeover, natural disaster.

  4. WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    >> Defending the power grid in the United States

    WTF is with the US utility tie-in? Did California declare war on Nevada overnight? Is the South risin' again?

    The problem here is that there's a low-grade civil war brewing in Crimea after Russia's invasion. Wake me up when/if the US has a similar problem. Zzzzzz....

    1. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by dj245 · · Score: 1

      >> Defending the power grid in the United States

      WTF is with the US utility tie-in? Did California declare war on Nevada overnight? Is the South risin' again?

      The problem here is that there's a low-grade civil war brewing in Crimea after Russia's invasion. Wake me up when/if the US has a similar problem. Zzzzzz....

      It's an odd tie-in, but the point that the US has this kind of vulnerability is valid. Especially in the Southwest. California's environmental regulations are so strict that it is easier to build a power station just on the Utah border and then run the power line all the way to Los Angeles. Arizona has similar issues, where the power plants are in the north of the state, but supply power to the cities. In Arizona's case, they depend on that power for pumping water also. You would not have to sever many lines to create real and serious problems. The difficulty would be in severing them in a way which could not be repaired quickly.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    2. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old political trick. Treat every piece of news as a potential terrorist threat. So we won't complain so much when they take away our civil rights.

    3. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      I think the point is there are some major not very well protected long haul power lines outside some of our major population centers. Events of 2004 proved there isn't enough redundancy in the system overall and there exist some points of failure that would likely lead to large scale blackouts that could last days. The lead time on replacement of some large transformers is weeks to months as well.

      A well researched attack that took out difficult to replace infrastructure like those transformers or perhaps took down multiple high capacity links in the north east or south west, at the same time could easily cripple a region.

      I don't think it would be easy to do but it probably is within reach of some guys with truck bombs and suicide drivers. Most of the information I think you would need to decide where and how to cripple the grid most effectively is out there. There are a lot of mile of electrical infrastructure, while monitored have security geared around catching a vandal after the fact or grabbing your 'I am gonna set these fireworks off next to this propane cylinder and hope something impressive happens' type would be terrorist struggling to find his ass with both hands after his plot fails due to his own incompetence.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    4. Re: WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There was a kamikaze squirrel in my neighborhood last week who took out a transformer. The power was out for nearly 90 minutes.

      The threat is real.

    5. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a fairly old trick to try and tie some actual real-world news that has nothing to do with tech with tech in order to make it Slashdot worthy.

      If we get a story sometime later about cat memes and the Brussels lock-down it's the same idea - someone really wanted to post a current event story and had to find the lamest connection to "tech" in order to make it "Slashdot worthy."

    6. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by ilguido · · Score: 0

      The problem here is that there's a low-grade civil war brewing in Crimea after Russia's invasion.

      There are no civil wars in Crimea right now, this disruption happened in Ukraine, outside of Crimea. Moreover this will harm more the faltering economy of Ukraine, that is paid for its supply of energy, than Crimea.

    7. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Defending the power grid in the United States

      WTF is with the US utility tie-in? Did California declare war on Nevada overnight? Is the South risin' again?

      The problem here is that there's a low-grade civil war brewing in Crimea after Russia's invasion. Wake me up when/if the US has a similar problem. Zzzzzz....

      How many thousands of kilometres of power gird are there in the US? How easy are they to patrol? How hard would it be to find Islamist terrorists knocking down power pylons? Could they be even be found before they take, say, Chicago of the national grid with a few of cases of dynamite and some cellphone detonators? How easy is it to hack the systems that controls the grid? How long would it take to rebuild those systems? How much damage would be done before the system is restored? Would the people doing it be caught before they hack some other part of the grid control system and take New York or Los Angeles off the grid? Is that enough or do you want more US utility tie-ins??

    8. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Funny

      >> probably is within reach of some guys with truck bombs and suicide drivers

      Like I said, then it's probably not something to worry about (i.e. fund excessively) in the US today. People with the ability to deploy truck bombs and suicide drivers are much more likely to target people instead. The kinds of conversations that would need take place to do the things you're talking about would only happen in an Austin Powers movie or Monty Python script.

      Terrorist Leader: "OK, Ali. Your mission is to drive this truck full of explosives into the Great Satan's (duh duh duh) electrical transformer! Muh-huh-huh."

      Ali: "Well...OK, and my sacrifice will kill off dozens of Satanic patients hooked up in the hospital in the next town over?"

      Leader: "Well, no, because the Great Satan's critical infrastructure is already protected with its own batteries and generators. But you will (duh duh duh) inconvenience thousands of people trying to watch TV and open their garage doors remotely. Muh-huh-huh."

      Ali: "Alright...so my sacrifice will inconvenience thousands of people for weeks, at least right? "

      Leader: "Well, maybe for a couple of days anyway, since the Great Satan will probably reroute power and bring in replacement equipment under an armed guard that we probably can't disrupt. But it will (duh duh duh) make the evening news. Muh-huh-huh."

      Ali: "Look, I don't think this group is for me. Can you recommend any other evil terrorist organizations that ARE a little more focused on my career goals?"

    9. Re: WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There was a kamikaze squirrel in my neighborhood last week who took out a transformer. The power was out for nearly 90 minutes.

      The threat is real.

      Was that attack connected with the Islamic Squirrels?

    10. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am not sure why you fuckers think you need to suicide bomb everything. I'm not really complaining, because every time you do it there's one less radical dumbass in the world, but I still don't understand it. A non human target would be extremely susceptible to things like conventional explosives planted and remotely detonated, or rocket launchers.

    11. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Strudelkugel · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that there's a low-grade civil war brewing in Crimea after Russia's invasion. Wake me up when/if the US has a similar problem. Zzzzzz....

      I would not be too complacent about this. Clearly we are going to reasonably wonder "could it happen here?" and what would it mean. A valid concern, but the much greater issue as I see it is that it appears Putin has a new and serious challenge on his hands. How many more problems can Russia manage before something snaps? A breakdown in Russia could be a very big problem, especially if it is chaotic.

      --
      Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
    12. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by gtall · · Score: 1

      It could have been done by Putin's little green men so that two-headed rat can claim he needs to protect the Crimea from terrorists.

    13. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would not be too complacent about this. Clearly we are going to reasonably wonder "could it happen here?" and what would it mean. A valid concern,

      A valid concern, really?? REALLY? So Russia is about to annex part of Alaska? Or Mexico Texas and you are worried about power supply? Or what is that valid concern?

      A breakdown in Russia could be a very big problem, especially if it is chaotic.

      I think you should worry more about US than Russia if you think there is any imminent breakdown in Russia.

    14. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by ilguido · · Score: 1

      "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"

    15. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by ProfBooty · · Score: 1

      Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      http://time.com/3949986/1977-b...

      In all, 1,616 stores were damaged in looting and rioting. A total of 1,037 fires were responded to, including 14 multiple-alarm fires. In the largest mass arrest in city history, 3,776 people were arrested. Many had to be stuffed into overcrowded cells, precinct basements and other makeshift holding pens. A congressional study estimated that the cost of damages amounted to a little over $300 million.

      The blackout ultimately shone a spotlight on some of the city’s long-overlooked shortcomings, from glaring flaws in the power network to the much deeper-rooted issues of racial inequality and the suffering of the “American underclass,” as TIME dubbed it. Some saw the worsening circumstances — and institutional neglect — of this group of people as the key to the differences between the two New York blackouts. The ’77 blackout presented a rare opportunity for the powerless minority to suddenly seize power, TIME concluded, quoting the head of the National Urban League as saying, “[The underclass] in a crisis feels no compulsion to abide by the rules of the game because they find that the normal rules do not apply to them.”

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      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    16. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that your wrong and that SRP is called the Salt River Project for a reason. Hydroelectric power 20 minutes from the East Valley.

      There is also Palo Verde which is a nuclear station 30 minutes to the south.

      A Molten Salt facility is coming online fairly soon as well.

      Arizona is in no way shape or form vulnerable to this. We can get power from all directions. Same goes for Gasoline as we learned an important lesson almost a decade ago when a pipeline broke and we had some gas shortages.

    17. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      >> The blackout ultimately shone a spotlight on some of the city’s long-overlooked shortcomings, from glaring flaws in the power network to the much deeper-rooted issues of racial inequality and the suffering of the “American underclass,” as TIME dubbed it.

      So...we need to spend ludicrous amounts of money keeping the lights and over-employing the "homeland security" sector to avoid race riots. Got it.

    18. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Civil war in Crimea? That's a complete BS. Crimeans overwhelmingly prefer being a part of Russia, rather than Ukraine. Even Crimean Tartars are OK with that, and only a small minority tries to use terrorist tactics to impose its own preferences on everybody else.

    19. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      I doubt very much anyone in this thread things thinks 'they' need to suicide bomb anything. If you are on the planning end of things though suicide bombers have some advantages:

      1) Dead men tell no tales - they won't be caught later and give up any intel on where your group can be found or how you communicate.

      2) Less effort there is no escape or extract part of the engagement to plan. Which may mean few assets, which is probably harder to detect. Consider attacking power infrastructure as that is the topic. Which is more suspect 1 truck traveling down the access road or two? The second being to transport the driver of the bomb truck back out.

      3) Less compensation required. People, even people fighting for a cause want to be paid, and have to eat. What's cheaper cash or a nice story about 72 virgins?

      4) Suicide attack concept defeats a lot of security that was always built around the assumption someone would want to 'get a way with it' How much security should we put around this substation? Well figure that we put a barb wire fence and some high voltage signs up for safety sakes. If someone is stupid enough to throw a blanket over the fence climb in anyway and try to nab this copper they'll wind up a crispy critter. It'll get on the news and it won't happen again for quite a while, that's for sure. That thinking falls down when the attacker isn't thinking about getting out alive.

      So if I am a terrorist commander fighting a symmetric war and have lots of low skill fighters I have invested pretty little in training and developing, well using them in kamikaze attacks has some major advantages, and they probably often out weigh the small price in head count.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    20. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by ProfBooty · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately it seems that way.

      --
      Bring back the old version of slashdot.
    21. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      But it's a dirty war. False-flag attacks are entirely plausable. Consider what Putin's plan might be:

      1. He has occupied new territory. It's not too hard to hold - the former power has other concerns, most of the population speaks Russian and a lot of them are loyal to Russia. But not all. There's a resistance, and it's getting in his way. So how to deal with them? He can't just start violently oppressing them, people would notice and there would be political fallout.
      2. Ah, but what if the local people all hated the resistance movement? Then fighting them becomes much easier!
      3. Ideally the resistance would do something to turn public opinion harshly against them. But if they don't, how about making it look like they did?
      4. Blow up pylons, place flags. Blackouts, chaos, collapse, people losing their jobs - and all of it blamed on the resistance!
      5. Added bonus: By attacking in Ukraine proper, not the disputed territory of Crimea, it makes the government of Ukraine appear weak and inept.
      6. Added added bonus: Russia shall soon get their own lines up. Russia comes to the rescue and saves the day.

    22. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      1. He has occupied new territory. It's not too hard to hold - the former power has other concerns, most of the population speaks Russian and a lot of them are loyal to Russia. But not all. There's a resistance, and it's getting in his way.

      There's no resistance to speak of in Crimea, moreover joining Russia clearly was a decision by a vast majority of Crimean people. The issue is that the referendum was not in accordance with the Ukrainean legislation, hence it's not recognized internationally, but there's no debate that it was a popular decision of the Crimeans.

    23. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      If you took all the terrorists who died in 9/11 put them into trucks with bombs and had them all drive in to major substations across several major cities in the north east of the USA and blow them up they would have killed if indirectly a order of magnitude more people and done an order of magnitude more economic harm than they actually did.

      You could easily put a major city like New York with out power for many months. There is simply not the "slack" in the supply of new transformers to replace them in what would be considered a reasonable time frame.

      Blow up a few dozen pylons with remotely detonated explosive devices and it would take months to reconstruct and add even more woe.

      The electricity supply infrastructure in any western country can easily be destroyed at a much greater rate than it can be repaired and replaced and it is all unprotected.

      Heck even the gas pipelines are largely unprotected as well, thought they are buried in the ground. Again they would take weeks or months to repair.

      Strike in the dead of winter of extra effect, or in a hot place at the hight of summer.

      Our saving grace is that the "terrorists" (because those in the Crimea are not terrorists unless you are whacked out Putin apologists) are simply too dumb to understand all this.

    24. Re: WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Informative

      You don't want to know what utilities spend every year deterring and repairing after squirrels.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    25. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're not dumb. They simply do not exist.

    26. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True, but compare that to the 2003 blackout in the northeast USA, which was orderly and very little bad happened. The 1970s were a different time.

    27. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Even Crimean Tartars are OK with that

      You mean, the ones that are permitted to talk about it, as opposed to being banned from Crimea and otherwise prosecuted for "extremism"?

      Of course, the very idea of holding up high the results of a referendum on secession in a country where merely distributing leaflets promoting "separatism" can land you in prison for several years is supremely ironic. At this point, it doesn't really matter what Crimeans think, because joining Russia is a one-way ticket - wanting to get out is a crime.

    28. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Tartar language is now one of the official state languages of the Crimea. There are now MORE schools teaching in it than before the annexation, Tartars are not repressed in any way. Go visit Crimea yourself and check it. It's not hard, Tartars in Crimea own pretty much all decent restaurants - just go to one of them and ask around.

      As for the leaders of Crimean tartars - they are NOT nice people. They supported and encouraged the policy of "land grabs" (or "self-occupation" - "samozakhvat" in Russian and Ukrainian) during the early 2000-s. Groups of Tartars were simply grabbing land (sometimes throwing out everybody who lived there), without regard for any laws or even common decency (like not building on a shared road). Russia is well within its rights to evict more than 100000 Tatars living on self-seized land.

    29. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That all sounds fine, except that here in the real world:

      1. Crimeans are more fervently pro-Russia than most Russians. A huge fraction of Crimeans are retired Red Army sailors, soldiers, and officers. You would have a hard time finding a region within Russia itself that is as eager to be part of Russia as Crimea. There is more resistance in New York to being part of the US than in Crimea to being part of Russia.

      2. The local people already hate the "resistance movement" because the resistance movement consists entirely of Ukrainian agents provocateurs.

      3. The Crimeans don't need anyone to convince them to turn against Ukraine, they all hate Ukraine with a burning passion.

      4. You don't think Ukrainian nationalists would want to blockade Crimea? They've publicly acknowledged it and set up a very visible blockade of the peninsula. You can literally go there and *see* them. They're not hiding it, they are proud of it.

      5. Putin doesn't need to do anything to make Ukraine appear weak and inept, Ukraine itself is doing a fine job of that.

      6. Russian power lines are at least a month away.

    30. Re:WTF is with the US utility tie-in? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Old political trick. Treat every piece of news as a potential terrorist threat. So we won't complain so much when they take away our civil rights.

      Um, I think a story about blowing up electricity pylons is an actual piece of news about terrorism.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. This is why we need alternative energy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Solar, wind, etc...

    Then you can have a highly distibuted generation/distribution system that will be more difficult to disrupt. Not impossible, but more difficult.

    1. Re:This is why we need alternative energy. by mlts · · Score: 1

      We also need batteries with higher energy density per volume, and it would be nice if MPPT charge controller prices go down (where the most expensive part is likely the inductor coil for the buck/boost charging.)

      Batteries would change everything. If a stable, long-life battery that holds even an order of magnitude less than what gasoline stores in unit volume, this would fundamentally change the structure of the power grid.

    2. Re:This is why we need alternative energy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes magic, Just because people need it, does not make it happen.

    3. Re:This is why we need alternative energy. by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Telsa....next question....

    4. Re:This is why we need alternative energy. by Moof123 · · Score: 1

      Crimea is a small 10,000 square mile area (think 100x100 mile square). Unless you have a lot of local storage in every city (giant city sized UPS), this is not a good example of your point.

  6. We *MUST* force Apple and Google to backdoor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Think of the Children in the dark.....

  7. Grammar is fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn those Sabotage Blacks!

    My heartfelt condolences to the millions of GLBT Crimeans they just outed.

    1. Re:Grammar is fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn those Sabotage Blacks!

      My heartfelt condolences to the millions of GLBT Crimeans they just outed.

      And in that region of the world, doing so can potentially have some serious consequences.

      Slashdot is pretty notorious for completely un-parseable headlines these days, even when they don't also have actual typographical errors in them.

  8. don't see why this wasn't the FP: by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Looks like Crimea needs to build more pylons

    /Horatio Caine puts on the sunglasses

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:don't see why this wasn't the FP: by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      Well, Starcraft 2: Heart of the Void did just come out...

  9. Since when is terrorist spelled as activist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tsss....

    1. Re:Since when is terrorist spelled as activist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tatars are Freedom Fighters, not terrorists!

      Are you really surprised that people here are hypocrites?

    2. Re:Since when is terrorist spelled as activist? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Sorta like the Palis? Crimean Tatars were removed from the Crimea in the 1940s, and relocated to Uzbekistan. So there is no reason for them to fight for any homeland. It's like the Pali claims of wanting to go back to 'Palestine', despite having lived for 2 generations abroad. When you're out that long, you might as well settle in the other country.

      There is no unwritten rule that every ethnic group in the world has to have an independent country of their own. Or else, there are many who come to mind - Tibetans, Kurds, Barbers, et al. Crimean Tatars, while unique, have enough similarities to the Kazakhs and Uzbeks and can live perfectly fine in those countries, which are large enough to accommodate them, w/o trying to crowd out others in the Crimean peninsula. There was never any need for Crimean Tatars to move from Uzbekistan back to the Crimea.

  10. Wait, cyberattacks what? by SlashDread · · Score: 1

    So powerlines were struck with explosives, and somehow this may be related to cyberattacks? I think this powercut is preview of what the U.S. may one day face with an alien invasion. Or zombies.

    1. Re:Wait, cyberattacks what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THIS!!! WTF do cyber-attacks have to do with a physical attack.?.?.? Other than click bait.

    2. Re:Wait, cyberattacks what? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Zombies don't target the power grid, but they may unintentionally cause outages by shambling into power equipment.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:Wait, cyberattacks what? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      I guess people are brain dead. The lead in did mention cyber attacks which could cripple the power grid much like what happened in Crimea. Not hard to see the connection.

  11. Not cyberwarfare related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At first I thought it was about grid IP security but things got destroyed by conventional means.

  12. Ukranian territory. by sethstorm · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Sabotage Blacks Out Millions In the Ukrainian territory of Crimea

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:Ukranian territory. by Guspaz · · Score: 0

      No more than Taiwan is the territory of China. Russia may have been completely in the wrong by invading and conquering Crimea, but they did, and now it's theirs. Ukraine's claims to it are just that: claims, not possession.

  13. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by Holi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You are remembering it wrong. California had almost twice the power generation capacity as it needed. It was Enron and others that took plants offline and manipulated the market to increase the price of energy 800%.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  14. In Washington State ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... we are just recovering from a week long power outage. If these attacks occurred here, we would have trouble differentiating between terrorism and normal power company operations.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:In Washington State ... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Local distribution is not the same as the grid.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:In Washington State ... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Most of our outages were due to transmission line faults (a.k.a. 'the grid'). The local power company also pulled the plug on a bunch of circuits to reduce load when they lost their transmission lines. Because they didn't want to pay wheeling charges to use parallel public utilities' lines that were still in operation.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  15. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

    Nope....it was Enron.....may they rot in hell...

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
  16. Bad choice by Qzukk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Cutting Crimea off from Ukraine is only going to strengthen Russia's hold on it (especially after Russia comes in to save the day with electricity). And if these people thought they were being repressed before, well, I'd hate to be a Tatar now that they're responsible for turning off everyone's electricity.

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    1. Re:Bad choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The tatar population of Crimea are in the same boat. They are left without electricity as well.

    2. Re:Bad choice by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's the idea - the 'activists' could really be Russian agents staging a fake attack.

    3. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      I'd hate to be a Tatar now that they're responsible for turning off everyone's electricity.

      Collective responsibility is not a part of the Russian mindset, and moreover the sabotage act itself wasn't perpetrated by the official reps of the Crimean Tatars from the Russia's viewpoint. More like outcast former elites discontented with their present status.

    4. Re:Bad choice by rahvin112 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The population voted overwhelming to leave. You can claim the elections were fabricated but not the followup independent polls that showed better than 92% in favor of joining Russia.

      They should have the right of self determination. On the other hand Ukraine should be under no obligation to supply Crimea with water, power sewer or any other service for which the people of Ukraine pay for. If I was the Ukrainian leader I would have cut the utilities ages ago without a significant and expensive payment from Russia to maintain them.

    5. Re:Bad choice by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      Remember that Ukraine is in massive arrears to Russia for gas they never paid for. Meanwhile Crimea was/is paying Ukraine for electricity.

    6. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      Collective responsibility is not a part of the Russian mindset

      Oh, really?

    7. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      Collective responsibility is not a part of the Russian mindset

      Oh, really?

      It was, like, 60 years ago? And I'm speaking about present time.

    8. Re:Bad choice by InfiniteLoopCounter · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's the idea - the 'activists' could really be Russian agents staging a fake attack.

      Clearly it's the Tartars pretending to be Russian agents pretending to be Tartar 'activists' staging a fake attack.

    9. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      A mindset is not something that changes radically over 60 years.

      And there have been plenty of cries along the lines of "Stalin was right" referencing the deportation of Chechens after wars with them in the 90s, and the associated terrorist acts.

    10. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      A mindset is not something that changes radically over 60 years.

      And there have been plenty of cries along the lines of "Stalin was right" referencing the deportation of Chechens after wars with them in the 90s, and the associated terrorist acts.

      Hm, I think that has been _exactly_ the point Russia tried to make since 1990 -- that the problem was with the ideology (a wrong and misguided teaching), rather than the Russian people. Obviously, it doesn't take time to change the _ideology_. And it has indeed changed around 1990. And since that time Russia was indeed a very different country than it was before, in regards of multiple issues, in a broad scope covering a large area from private ownership of business empires and to legality of homosexual relationships.

    11. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      And looking at its direction in the past couple of years, it seems that it's falling back into its old ways (or rather an incoherent mix of old and even older, from Soviet and Imperial times both), which makes me question just where the problem has really been all this time.

    12. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      And looking at its direction in the past couple of years, it seems that it's falling back into its old ways (or rather an incoherent mix of old and even older, from Soviet and Imperial times both), which makes me question just where the problem has really been all this time.

      I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Do you know what precisely is a totalitarian state? It's a state which concerns itself with things which normally are a matter of a person's free will.

      You can see a good illustration of a totalitarian state in movie "Stilyagi", the modern movie set in the Soviet Union: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    13. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      You're right, the new Russian state is authoritarian rather than totalitarian.

      Which is to say, it's still shit, it just stinks a little bit less.

    14. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      You're right, the new Russian state is authoritarian rather than totalitarian.

      Which is to say, it's still shit, it just stinks a little bit less.

      Hey, I'm a patriotic Russian, you are offending my country and still I'm talking to you... why? May be that's because I learned not to care about what do other people think about my country. But that raises additional questions, such as when have I reached that point and what motivated me? Holy fuck. You can never be aware of where a political discussion might lead you to. :-) I presume it's just hard to be a self-aware human in general, rather than implying anything directly relevant to the nature of our current political discussion, though.

    15. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      You're right, the new Russian state is authoritarian rather than totalitarian.

      Which is to say, it's still shit, it just stinks a little bit less.

      I mean, yes, it would probably hurt if it meant anything compared to the simple, plain and stupid fact that the woman I love does not love me... I would not mind living in the pitiest stinking shithole if she did not throw me away. I'm just beyond hurt at this point. That's why I don't feel anything. It's not a problem with your wording or anything.

    16. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Well, perhaps you have some nagging doubts about your patriotism, given what kind of things it would require you to support in the past couple of years?

    17. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      Well, I do not "have to" support anything, and I believe it's only natural for a person to have doubts about everything, unless that person is a zealot.

      I do have a cautionary tale to tell you, though. One my Russian friend used to think that Russia was shit. Would you like to learn what happened to him? He moved to MIT. Other Russian friend of mine used to think Russia was the land of slaves. His current whereabouts? Stanford.

      The bottom line of my cautionary tale is the following: while you are trying to convince more Russians that their country is shit, are you sure that the U.S. economy can accomodate all of us?

    18. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      As it happens, I'm also a Russian, and my current whereabouts are close to Seattle... ~

      And yes, I'm pretty sure that the US economy can accommodate us all - or at least the kind of people that you have listed. We have valuable skill sets, and we actually produce wealth - and we pay more in taxes off our income than most natural-born citizens, not to mention all the spending that also creates jobs. Furthermore, we integrate readily: we often marry locals, our kids usually speak English better than they speak Russian (esp. with American moms!), and their kids often don't speak Russian at all; and our cultures are close enough that 1-2 generations is sufficient to get thoroughly Americanized without any conscious efforts effort.

      So the bottom line of your cautionary tale is really more of a caution to your country: if it's so easy to convince so many that their country is shit, not just to the point where they nod, but to the point where they pack up their belongings and leave on an expensive and uncertain one-way trip, perhaps there's readily observable truth to the accusation? Should you, perhaps, be doing something to remedy that (and by remedy I mean fix the issues that make people leave, as opposed to, say, closing down the border and instituting exit visas, which seems to be the way the wind is blowing currently - we all know how it ends)?

    19. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      Wow, that's a serious reply, and I do vaguely remember having a prior conversation with you and that you are Russian.

      Now to proceed with my answer, have you probably read "Guns, germs and steel" by Jared Diamond? In that book the author asks a question why different civilizations have developed differently by the time the world became global, and his answer is that very basically it boils down to geographic factors.

      In a similar manner it can be argued that for the foreseeable future Russia won't be a lucrative place to live for a young aspiring adult, because it is cheaper to produce new fantastic gadgets in the South Asia and it's more profitable to design them in the U.S. Russia falls in between, with the climate which increases the costs of production and the economy which does not allow for serious levels of irrecoverable costs (i.e. engineering labor). This pretty much means that the economy of Russia won't boom, and as a boomerang effect its middle class won't rise economically and aspire to claim political leadership.

      So yes, it would be a lie to tell young people that there's a better future for them in Russia, because clearly the U.S. is the better place for a young aspiring person. This doesn't mean that it's not possible to make a living in Russia doing either science, engineering or business, and there are notable examples which prove that point (Kaspersky, ABBYY, Yotaphone, etc, etc), but it's also pretty clear that all that's left out to Russia is niche products.

      And the only way to argue with geography is to change your own location, so yes, it is about personal choices, there will be always people who prefer to leave and nothing can be done about that.

    20. Re:Bad choice by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Now to proceed with my answer, have you probably read "Guns, germs and steel" by Jared Diamond? In that book the author asks a question why different civilizations have developed differently by the time the world became global, and his answer is that very basically it boils down to geographic factors.

      Yes.

      In a similar manner it can be argued that for the foreseeable future Russia won't be a lucrative place to live for a young aspiring adult, because it is cheaper to produce new fantastic gadgets in the South Asia and it's more profitable to design them in the U.S. Russia falls in between, with the climate which increases the costs of production and the economy which does not allow for serious levels of irrecoverable costs (i.e. engineering labor). This pretty much means that the economy of Russia won't boom, and as a boomerang effect its middle class won't rise economically and aspire to claim political leadership.

      Your analysis ignores the existence of states in similar, if not worse, predominant climatic conditions, that fare much better in terms of economy and (arguably, more importantly) quality of life. Canada, Finland, Sweden, Iceland... which of these have a problem with outflow of skilled labor?

      Then again, the harshness of climate in Russia is also often overstated for effect. A good chunk of European Russia (basically, the lower 2/3 or so) has very reasonable climate. There are plenty of geographic benefits, too, such as a vast network of large rivers that can be readily used for transportation, significant number of natural resources (even in the European part), forests, and quality soil. In fact, the latter could easily enable homesteading, if you're keen to follow the American example.

      IMO, for the past few centuries at least, the constraints on development in Russia (or lack thereof, which has been a rare occasion indeed) largely originate from poor governance rather than climatic conditions or that elusive "national mentality". It has everything that is needed to be a very successful, strong country economically - indeed, this shows up in some of the successes that USSR has enjoyed despite everything - but it either squanders those opportunities outright, or when they're actually used for something good, the wealth thus produced goes right past the majority of the populace, in a manner that is more blunt and unfair than even the most income-unequal liberal democratic capitalist countries (such as US).

    21. Re:Bad choice by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      Your analysis ignores the existence of states in similar, if not worse, predominant climatic conditions, that fare much better in terms of economy and (arguably, more importantly) quality of life. Canada, Finland, Sweden, Iceland... which of these have a problem with outflow of skilled labor?

      Then again, the harshness of climate in Russia is also often overstated for effect. A good chunk of European Russia (basically, the lower 2/3 or so) has very reasonable climate. There are plenty of geographic benefits, too, such as a vast network of large rivers that can be readily used for transportation, significant number of natural resources (even in the European part), forests, and quality soil. In fact, the latter could easily enable homesteading, if you're keen to follow the American example.

      IMO, for the past few centuries at least, the constraints on development in Russia (or lack thereof, which has been a rare occasion indeed) largely originate from poor governance rather than climatic conditions or that elusive "national mentality". It has everything that is needed to be a very successful, strong country economically - indeed, this shows up in some of the successes that USSR has enjoyed despite everything - but it either squanders those opportunities outright, or when they're actually used for something good, the wealth thus produced goes right past the majority of the populace, in a manner that is more blunt and unfair than even the most income-unequal liberal democratic capitalist countries (such as US).

      You are spot-on-correct. The only issue is that the quality of government influences the _rate_ of economic development. I.e., if Russia had overnight the best quality of government, it might have fantastic economic successes -- like may be 4% of annual economic growth. That would certainly show up in 20 years or so.

  17. we have enough hometown wackos to worry by swschrad · · Score: 1

    like the goofs who shot up a transformer in California about a year ago. folks in northeast New Mexico that have nothing else to do late at night but take potshots at the high-tension line insulators. these issues are easily but expensively solved by putting the lines underground. as we have seen in New York City, they don't get upgraded on schedule and you tend to have duct explosions and fires.

    as soon as they decide to take on the "smart grid" with its 4-character default admin passwords and no firewalling, we then have real issues. laws should make it clear to the utilities that their shareholders pay for that crap.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  18. journalists... by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    There are fewer and fewer journalists, every year.

    "all your news is belong to us" (yahoo, facebook, google...)

    Yes, I am aware of the irony of using google in my link.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:journalists... by TWX · · Score: 1

      There are still more journalism-school graduates per year than there are jobs in the entirety of the profession.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  19. Putin and obama are for cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are all cows. Cows say Mooo. Moooo! Moooo! Mooo cows Moooo. Mooo say the cows. YOU CIVILIAN CASUALTIES CAUSING COWS!!!

  20. FBI-NSA-M-O-U-S-E first, please by swschrad · · Score: 1

    put backdoors in all your servers, guys, let us know about it, and we'll see if you are right that it's not a problem.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  21. Cyber trolls take over the world by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    This is one of the most outright blatant trolling attempts by an author of a summary I've seen in at least a week.

    1. Re:Cyber trolls take over the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is one of the most outright blatant trolling attempts by an author of a summary I've seen in at least a week.

      So, I guess you haven't been reading Slashdot for about the last week then?

  22. What happens after one month? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    and declared a state of emergency, which can last as long as one month.

    What happens after one month, then, if the situation hasn't changed? State of Emergency II: Electric Boogaloo?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:What happens after one month? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uhm, its in the summary:
      "In the meantime Russia is building an "energy bridge" to Crimea that officials hope will supply most of the peninsula's need and its first phase will begin operating by the end of this year."

  23. that's racist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "blacks out"? I'm not willing to sit here and silently accept this racism. Slashdot is a hive of white privilege and racism. Now if you'll excuse me, being superior to you gives me a raging hard-on and I need to go crush some pussy.

  24. Taters by darkain · · Score: 1
  25. May I be the first to say by melted · · Score: 5, Funny

    Crimea river.

  26. But sabotage roof top solar first by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    Distributed power generation could provide a vital back up for such grid failures. So to protect the profit potential of utilities sucking the blood of captive customers we need to sabotage roof top solar first. If grid gets sabotaged, then we can get the feds to cough up money for doing all the maintenance work that were cut back for decades.

    The big lesson learned from the 2008 financial collapse is: fail big. Fail small, you need to pay for the cost of failure. Fail big, feds will pay for the cost of failure. So make sure that all failures are catastrophic, so that there is huge public pressure to "do something". The utilities will have contingency plans ready to hold the hat out for federal handout.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:But sabotage roof top solar first by StinkiePhish · · Score: 1

      Distributed power generation could provide a vital back up for such grid failures. So to protect the profit potential of utilities sucking the blood of captive customers we need to sabotage roof top solar first. If grid gets sabotaged, then we can get the feds to cough up money for doing all the maintenance work that were cut back for decades.

      The big lesson learned from the 2008 financial collapse is: fail big. Fail small, you need to pay for the cost of failure. Fail big, feds will pay for the cost of failure. So make sure that all failures are catastrophic, so that there is huge public pressure to "do something". The utilities will have contingency plans ready to hold the hat out for federal handout.

      Power generation is already distributed across the country and regions in a diverse portfolio mix of technologies most appropriate for the geography. Sure, they're large generators, but it's presently the most cost-effective, safe, and reliable method of generating *and* transmitting energy. The problem is that we have three, huge interconnected grids in the United States in order to move that generated energy at the moment it's generated in precise equilibrium with demand. Failures in transmission, as this Crimea story says, result in cascading failures based on safety. The distributed generation you're speaking of, primarily solar (and I'll throw wind in there too), is intermittent and unreliable, and therefore requires *more* transmission capability in order to move energy from where the sun is shining or the wind is blowing at any given moment to where demand resides. Until energy storage becomes cost effective (and we're nowhere near that), transmission and distribution is the primary problem.

      As such, the dependency on the grid is the problem, not renewable distributed generation. The solution is microgrids with small scale nuclear plants that *can* operate independently of the grid when necessary, but that opens up a whole other level of concerns, almost all based on NIMBY fears.

  27. Madame Secretary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The TV show as responsible. . .

  28. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by mi · · Score: 1

    It was Enron

    Citations?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  29. Re:Tartars are Muslims by mi · · Score: 2

    They probably want to practice Sharia in the Crimea and the Russians are preventing them.

    Tatars in general — and Crimean Tatars in particular — are, probably, the most secular of Muslims in the world. They are certainly not seeking Sharia and this attack has nothing religious about it — the Tatars' movement is primarily nationalistic, rather than religious in nature. These people hate USSR/Russia with passion over the ethnic cleansing they suffered in 1944. They are quite loyal to Kyiv, because Ukrainian government allowed them to return after gaining its own independence.

    The attack was not solely by Tatars either. In fact, it is possible, it was tacitly sanctioned by the government — payback in kind for a "hybrid war", that Russia waged against Ukraine. The government now half-heartedly goes through the motions of trying to "restore order", but the occupiers in Crimea suffer and that's a good thing — the very earth should be on fire under their feet, as we both remember from the WW2-slogans.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  30. Oh n0es, teh ph34r! by 6Yankee · · Score: 1

    Just had to get the "ZOMG TWO nuclear power stations had to do a routine thing and we're all gonna die" angle in.

    1. Re:Oh n0es, teh ph34r! by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      Came here for this. Glad someone else already caught it. People constantly trying to put their idiotic spin on everything is why i now hate everyone.

  31. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Seriously?
    There are people in Jail over it.
    It should not be hard to find 100's of links.

  32. decentralize power by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    the problem we have now is that the current power system is centralized and interconnected. it's interconnected nature is it's vulnerability so the obvious answer is to segment "the grid". the best answer would be to have everyone use solar+battery and only have people can't generate enough power actually stay connected to the grid.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:decentralize power by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Economy of scale, though. One huge power station has a lower cost per watt of generating capacity than ten thousand tiny ones.

    2. Re:decentralize power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should, but there are often a large number of costs associated with building large facilities (factories, power plants, dams, etc) that don't occur with smaller facilities. Fighting the NIMBYs is a major one, having to deal with one court case and regulatory hurtle after another for plant construction/updates can be very costly. Logistics can be another, a bunch of distributed power facilities can be fed by a myriad of fuels, suppliers and transportation systems, a large plant is often forced to use one fuel, one supplier and one transit method. Distribution also eats up a significant amount of the power produced by the large, centralized plant system, at least 5%. As with most things a diversified energy production system (large base plants with distributed peak/backup plants) is probably preferable so no one fuel/plant/network that is too costly/damaged/attacked can bring down the entire system.

  33. Cyber by FrostedWheat · · Score: 1

    In a preview of what the U.S. may one day face with cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid

    LOL, no. Just... no.

  34. Equivication is standard KGB procedure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Russia signed a treaty in 1994 in which Ukraine transferred all of their nuclear weapons to Russia. One of the stipulations was that Ukraine's borders be recognized by Russia. Russia blatantly violated this treaty, which is why The US and EU administered economic sanctions to punish Putin and Russia. Those sanctions will remain in place until Putin submits, or his people depose him, and Crimea reverts to Ukrainian control.

    1. Re:Equivication is standard KGB procedure by FilatovEV · · Score: 1

      Those sanctions will remain in place until Putin submits, or his people depose him, and Crimea reverts to Ukrainian control.

      It's not about Putin anymore. Joining Russia was promoted by local Crimean activists (yeah, there was an active brewing separatist movement) and popularly supported at a referendum. It might be naught from the international viewpoint, but it's something that cannot be ignored by Russia, regardless of who is its president.

  35. Cyber attack??? by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    What does destroying main electric pylons have to do with cyber attacks?

    1. Re:Cyber attack??? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Lead in: "In a preview of what the U.S. may one day face with cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid,"

      And

      "Power Grid Cyber Attacks Keep the Pentagon Up" at Night http://www.scientificamerican....

      Funny what reading does...you learn things...

    2. Re:Cyber attack??? by nickweller · · Score: 1

      It doesn't have anything, but such bogus scare stories will be used as a pretext to spy on your 'computers', purely to protect you from the cyber terrorists you understand ..

  36. Mod me up, Ex Comed employee. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try calling 1-800-9-Exelon sometime. That used to be their help desk number.

    It goes to a porn chat line now.

    Why?

    The NEW Helpdesk number, which I won't disclose, goes to India.

    Yes, Indians, on Foreign Soil, reset the passwords of execs and VP's at whim if the like. In the Phillipines Too by the way.

    Government services need to be getting their IT Locally. Period.

    And lest we forget Southern California Edison just outsourced their IT Department. Who else? Yep lets outsource our utility infrastructure IT, great idea! This is beyond stupid for the execs to be doing this, it's just greed. Especially with all the rake hikes and linemen making 6 figures with GED's.

    I had access to over 10,000 PC's with my local admin credentials. I could've easily loaded something like cryptolocker on every last one of them. I can also go fishing for a domain admin login. Once you are that far in, SCADA networks are not strong enough. Some of the design changes they have made enable you to adjust load with the click of a mouse. Failsafes are in place but what happens if they figure out how to blow a few hundred transformers?

    When foreigners have the ability to reset admin passwords, no security is strong enough. There are no criminal offenses.

    Corporate Greed makes us weak.

    And Mods, leave this up for a week, then delete it. Let their reputation people see it first ; -).

  37. Maybe the right thing, but wrong method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know why Ukraine would even want to sell electricity to Russia, but whatever, I guess Ukraine still has to buy natural gas from them.

    1. Re:Maybe the right thing, but wrong method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only gas. Ukraine also buys coal, oil, nuclear fuel, and sometimes electricity from Russia.

  38. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    "The financial crisis was possible because of partial deregulation legislation instituted in 1996 by the California Legislature (AB 1890) and Governor Pete Wilson. Enron took advantage of this deregulation and was involved in economic withholding and inflated price bidding in California's spot markets."

    One trader is heard on tapes obtained by CBS News saying, "Just cut 'em off. They're so f----d. They should just bring back f-----g horses and carriages, f-----g lamps, f-----g kerosene lamps."

    "People were talking about market manipulation. People were talking about schemes, people were making jokes," said U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash.

    The tapes also show that Enron, whose bankruptcy three years ago [article was written in 2005] was the biggest corporate scandal of recent times, manipulated energy markets in Canada and was planning to rig the Californian market even before deregulation in 1998, for which the Texan corporation actively campaigned.

    On one tape, an Enron official named Bill tells an employee called Rich at a Las Vegas power plant to take the plant offline on a confected excuse. The conversation took place on January 17 2001, in the last days of the Clinton administration, as blackouts were rolling across California, cutting off electricity to more than one million people, and after the energy secretary, Bill Richardson, had ordered generators across the west to direct their output to the troubled state.

    "Ah, we want you guys to get a little creative, and come up with a reason to go down," Bill says on the tape. "Anything you want to do over there? Any cleaning, anything like that?"

    "OK, so we're just comin' down for some maintenance, like a forced outage type thing?" Rich replies, according to transcripts published yesterday. "I think that's a good plan, Rich," Bill says. "... I knew I could count on you."

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/feb/05/enron.usnews
    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/09/business/09ENRO.html?pagewanted=all
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/blackout/california/
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/enron-tapes-anger-lawmakers/

    Is that enough citation?

  39. Russian plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks more like a KGB action against Tatars, because power cable from Russia mainland is almost ready now.

    1. Re:Russian plot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that were the case why would the Tatars and Pro-Ukraine groups be blocking the repairs?

  40. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    Their whole corporate existence was emblematic of the modern economy of making money from doing nothing. Buying and selling stuff that they did not own, sitting in the middle and sweeping up profits. They did this with electricity, they had major plans to do this with water (pump it into aquifers in wet years in California then sell it at a profit in dry years), there were rumors they thought about stuff like this with air. Before they were "caught" they were hailed as geniuses in the business world because to the amoral economic leaders in this country they were doing nothing wrong.

  41. One persons terrotist is another persons... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A few months back most western governments were screaming at the top of their lungs that these "brave people were taking their government from pro Russians" and now those same people blowing up power lines into an area which voted to a part of the country that overwhelmingly voted to stay with Russia. I wonder if those voices will be nearly as vocal about this act of economic terrorism perpetrated by people they were supporting a few months back.

  42. in NO WAY RELATED by tekrat · · Score: 1

    So, if I cut the telephone lines going into people's houses, is that the same as hacking the telephone network?

    If someone is in an auto accident and hits a phone pole, is that the same thing as hacking the car (and subsequently hacking the phone network?) And Horrors! Imagine if the auto accident was because the person was on the phone!

    The only way this is similar is if "hackers" knock down the power poles with bulldozers, the old fashioned way. There's no "cyber" anything involved with this story, except in your imagination.

    This is a Donald Trump story. This is campaign fodder for his "fear everyone" brand of crap.

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
  43. meh - weather knocks out power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The weather knocks out my power. Would I even notice if it was a terrorist attack?

  44. Who are these" Sabotage Blacks" ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And why are they "outing" so many people?

  45. From TV? Madam Secretary? by gurps_npc · · Score: 1
    I wonder did some Russian get early access to the US TV show Madam Secretary and think "Do that to fictional Russia? Screw them, we will do it for REAL in Crimea!"

    Or (more paranoid-ly) did Madam Secretary's script writers get early intel on what Russia planned?

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  46. or a generator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gas powered generator is a heck of a lot more practical and more reliable

  47. Cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid .. by nickweller · · Score: 1

    "In a preview of what the U.S. may one day face with cyberattacks on the U.S. power grid, Ivan Nechepurenko reports at the NY Times that power lines in southern Ukraine that supply Crimea have been knocked down by saboteurs, leaving millions without electricity."

    Except the power supply was knocked out by explosives blowing up the pylons and cyberattacks were not involved. And who in this day and age still connects their SCADA units directly to the Internet. Have a look at this from 2003. I do realize bureaucracy moves slowly but this is ridiculous.

  48. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by mi · · Score: 1

    Is that enough citation?

    Indeed, thank you. And now ask yourself, why was Enron in a position to do all that... And the answer is: monopoly. California bungled the privatisation allowing Enron to hold all (or most) of the cards...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  49. Ukranian Territory. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    Sabotage Blacks Out Millions In the Ukrainian territory of Crimea

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  50. Spam down by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Ahhh, so that's why my spam is down by 50% today.

  51. Re:Main enemey to the US grid: NIMBY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Congrats on winning an argument, that wasn't happening here.

  52. Re:Tartars are Muslims by zapadnik · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the comment. However, Koran 9:29 requires Muslims to seek to implement Sharia, sooner or later. That means the Tatars are takfiris (apostates) from the point-of-view of most Muslims in the World (which a 2012 Pew Survey places as having over 800 million people agreeing in one or more aspects of Sharia).

    My understanding is that the Tatars have formed a battalion that the Ukranian Government is using. It seems every Government of the World is so corrupt it is prepared to arm and train self-styled jihadis to do their dirty work. This just proves that while Governments are a necessary evil, they are still evil.