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Scientists Produce Graphene 100 Times Cheaper Than Ever Before (gizmag.com)

Posted by samzenpus on from the bigger-better-and-cheaper dept.

Zothecula writes that researchers at the University of Glasgow have found a way to produce large sheets of graphene 100 times more cheaply than previous methods. Gizmag reports: "Since first being synthesized by Andre Geim and Kostya Novoselov at the University of Manchester in 2004, there has been an extensive effort to exploit the extraordinary properties of graphene. However the cost of graphene in comparison to more traditional electronic materials has meant that its uptake in electronic manufacturing has been slow. Now researchers at the University of Glasgow have discovered a way to create large sheets of graphene using the same type of cheap copper used to manufacture lithium-ion batteries."

42 of 77 comments (clear)

  1. Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hate it when people misuse language to describe math.

    What does "100 times more cheaply" mean?

    1. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So it's free?

    2. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Sique · · Score: 1

      It says you get 100 times as much for the same money. Don't you understand any English?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by byornski · · Score: 1

      Or double the time...

    4. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      What does "100 times more cheaply" mean?

      Everyone fluent in English knows exactly what it means. English is a natural language, not an expression of formal logic. Stop being a pedantic Aspie.

    5. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by fredrated · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points...

    6. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      I take it to mean 2 orders of magnitude less costly. I do understand how unnatural it is for people like us, who see "times" as an operator, to see it's use in such a context. And while I'm all for clear communication, I stopped looking for it from English a very long time ago. Clarify all you like, but stay away from my homonyms!

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    7. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      "Aspie" is an abbreviation that originated as an internally friendly way of people with Asperger's Syndrome of self identifying as part of a group. It was supposed to be a way of these people to feel a sense of belonging in what can seem like a foreign world to them.

      Although in this case it is being hijacked to be used as a pejorative because this group happens to be more detail focused (the same way people hijacked the words queer and gay from the LGBT community to use as insults).

      New words are invented all the time. Language is an amorphous thing, created to convey meaning. Just because you don't understand/ haven't heard a term, does not invalidate it.

      I mean "shizzle" is a recognised word thanks to one particular R&B celebrity. So get off your high horse.

      And ShanghaiBill - stop being a dick and using words like that. Being an Aspie should not be seen as a negative thing, they have a hard enough time gaining acceptance without you using phrases like that.

    8. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      not quite but it's 100 times as free, that is to say a hundred times freer. are we clear?

    9. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > English is a natural language,

      From Wikipedia:

              In 1990, in the Usenet group rec.arts.sf-lovers, Nicoll wrote the following epigram on the English language:

              The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary

    10. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      in this case it is being hijacked to be used as a pejorative

      It is NOT being hijacked. I am at least as much of an Aspie as the GPP. Therefore, as a member of the group, I have the right to use the word.

    11. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And twice as slow is stupid also, call it 1/2 the speed.

      What, there's just one correct way of saying things now? I can't say "twice the frequency", because you insist on "half the period"? I can't say "twice the conductance", because you insist on "half the resistance"?

    12. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      You know what it means. I know what it means. Everyone knows what it means.

      If you insist on a rigorous mathematical definition, it's very simple. "Cheapness" is simply the inverse of "costliness." So if something is 100 times cheaper, it's 100 times less costly. If something originally cost $100, it now costs $1. Capiche?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    13. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Rujiel · · Score: 1

      100 times more cheap. Take the price, sivide by 100. Is that really so difficult?

    14. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      It's OK. You're 100 times more stupid than a toaster oven.

    15. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by kevlar_rat · · Score: 1
      This is perfectly understandable and logical - it means 100th the price. ironically there are lots of examples of misuse of maths about, e.g.:

      "divided by half" - a bastard of "divided by two" and "multiplied by half", which actually means the exact opposite: multiplied by two.

      "a half less" - a chimera of "half as much" and "half of", which again means the opposite.

      "0.01 cents" - a mongrel of "one cent" or "$0.01", instead giving a price 100 times cheaper.

      So let's save our outrage for the next time someone tells us it's good news the number of deaths has "divided by half", or crimes are "a half less".

      --
      Moderated Usenet
    16. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Ian+A.+Shill · · Score: 1
      Last one out, please get the lights.

      What does "100 times more cheaply" mean?

      Everyone fluent in English knows exactly what it means. English is a natural language, not an expression of formal logic. Stop being a pedantic Aspie.

      --
      For hire.
    17. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      I don't see why not. The conclusion is no less ridiculous than the premise.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    18. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by Lotharus · · Score: 2

      I'm inclined to agree with you in part: Both period and frequency are absolute measures and can be used reciprocally. However, "short" and "slow" are comparative, not absolute ("slow" does not mean "time over distance"). "Short" by itself is meaningless. If Bob is "half as short" as Ann, is Bob taller or shorter than Ann? Is Bob half Ann's height? Twice Ann's height? 150% of Ann's height? Without any additional information, it's up to the hearer's interpretation of what "half" of a comparative measure means, and all three absolute conclusions could be considered correct.

      It's the same with "young," the misuse of which is gaining popularity when stating age (and really grates on my senses). "I'm 25 years young." No, you aren't. You're 25 years old. "Years old" (the two words together) are an absolute measure of the duration of someone/thing's life. "Years young" just doesn't mean anything at all.

      To conclude, you can't have something "100 times less expensive" unless you know what "less expensive" means. If Solution B is a penny less expensive than Solution A, you can say Solution C is 100 times less expensive than A compared to B, and that would mean Solution C is $1 less expensive than A. But without a common reference, it's meaningless. 100 times what?

      END RANT

      --
      http://undecidedgames.blogspot.com
    19. Re:Horrible English Makes for Bad Math by dl_sledding · · Score: 1

      Logical and well stated. Wish I had mod points.

  2. 100x cheaper? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "The commercially-available copper we used in our process retails for around one dollar per square meter, compared to around $115 for a similar amount of the copper currently used in graphene production," said Dr Dahiya, of the University of Glasgow's School of Engineering."

    How much was the price of copper, the total price of the production?

    1. Re:100x cheaper? by del_diablo · · Score: 1

      ~$1 per square meter for "normal" copper.
      +$125 per square meter for "high grade" copper. Which also needs to be processed in order to use it.
      If I interpret the article correctly, they are using the shaped high grade copper to create something like a cast. Casting graphene apparently eliminates the cost of some chemicals, and increases yield(not sure if in failure rate or in speed). Chemical vapour deposition(CDV) is stilled used, but its less messy than the traditional method.

      That said, I still want a fucking price per kilo of graphene, before and after.

  3. More Accurate Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Researchers at the University of Glasgow claim that they can create graphene using cheaper copper. They claim that the copper they use costs $1 per square meter, whereas previous production methods require a copper that retails for $115 per square meter.

    Note: I have no idea why researchers at the University of Glasgow price their materials in dollars.

    1. Re:More Accurate Summary by mark-t · · Score: 1

      This is just a guess, but I'd imagine that it's probably because they get it from a source that accepts USD.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    2. Re:More Accurate Summary by Sique · · Score: 1

      Because they have looked up the retail prices in dollar to make it more easy for non-UK-residents?

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:More Accurate Summary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Researchers at the University of Glasgow claim that they can create graphene using cheaper copper. They claim that the copper they use costs $1 per square meter, whereas previous production methods require a copper that retails for $115 per square meter.

      Note: I have no idea why researchers at the University of Glasgow price their materials in dollars.

      Well, coppers in Glasgow don't wear the traditional police helmets, so I suppose you could flatten them out more and get more square meters per copper.

      What do you mean wrong type of copper?....

    4. Re:More Accurate Summary by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Note: I have no idea why researchers at the University of Glasgow price their materials in dollars.

      Because copper, like any other internationally traded commodity, is priced in dollars. Also, people almost anywhere in the world know what their local currency is worth in dollars, so they can do the conversion in their head. Far fewer are familiar with pounds. So if you are writing an article for an international audience, you use dollars.

  4. Wait a minute... by WSOGMM · · Score: 1, Informative

    Cheaper than scotch tape and pencils??

    1. Re: Wait a minute... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And time. You ever make graphene that way? Takes hours.

    2. Re: Wait a minute... by davell+logan · · Score: 1

      I agree

  5. Re:"cheap copper" by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1, Funny

    In the last year, all metals prices have plummeted. Around here, the incidence of illegal aliens lighting themselves up trying to pull live wires out of the ground has dropped off drastically.

  6. Re:"cheap copper" by aXis100 · · Score: 1

    Did you RTFA?

    It's cheap because it's a thin foil. There's simply not much copper per unit area.

  7. So I guess they switched to generic tape. by bistromath007 · · Score: 1

    n/t

  8. Re:Graphene is for Cows by fredrated · · Score: 1

    You're a one-trick pony, haven't you got anything else?

  9. Re:Graphene is for Cows by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

    I would have gone for "one trick heifer", but other than that I agree...

    --
    You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  10. What does "100 times more cheaply" mean? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

    More gooder.

  11. Re:"cheap copper" by Bengie · · Score: 1

    Not only a thin foil, but it doesn't bond with it, only deposits on top of, allowing re-use of the foil.

  12. Re:Very good by davester666 · · Score: 1

    now it's only $1,000,000,000,000/gram. practically free.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  13. One dimensional tube? by Asha2004 · · Score: 2

    From the article : "As a two-dimensional crystal of carbon atoms, graphene is a basic building block of many carbon derivatives such as zero dimensional fullerene, one dimensional carbon nanotubes, and three dimensional graphite. "

    How can a tube be one dimensional?

    1. Re:One dimensional tube? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is more of an analogy. All of these are built up in 3D but fullerene is called 0D as it is confined in all 3 dimensions; nanotubes are confined in 2D leading to a "1D material" and graphene is confined in a single dimension leading to a "2D material".

  14. Re:"cheap copper" by monkeyxpress · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know this is off topic, but the reason metal prices plunged is because regulators finally told the investment banks/hedge funds to stop creating bubbles in the commodity markets. Read up about the Goldman Sachs aluminium racket. Basically they just bought up all the market makers in the aluminium industry so that they could artificially control the marginal price of aluminium. It is really quite sickening. Another hedge fund manager did the same with the global coffee market, buying up a huge portion of a year's crop and then holding it back from the market to artificially raise prices.

  15. Re:how big is "large"? by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

    650mm wide is definitely possible : http://www.shcopper.com/en/pro...