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Pressure From Uber Forces London Taxis To Finally Accept Cards (thestack.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Following a public consultation that compared the service unfavorably with Uber, London's 21,000 black cabs will finally accept card payment from October of 2016, with a possible option to pay via PayPal. London Mayor Boris Johnson continues to support and defend the legendarily expensive and iconic taxi service, saying 'This move will boost business for cabbies and bring the trade into the 21st century by enabling quicker and more convenient journeys for customers'. Most Londoners feel that the move should have been made in the 1980s, and the consultation report indicates that Uber's increasing share of London fares has forced the innovation.
Okay, this is starting to get a bit ridiculous. Can we please stop with all the articles vaguely related to Uber that have zero tech interest.
This is a site for techies, not taxi enthusiasts.
Here in Boston, cabbies would say that the machine was broken because they wanted you to pay cash and not have to send the card company 5% or whatever. So the city raised rates to compensate for that fee. Guess what? "The machine is broken" is what you will hear most of the time if you offer a card at the end of the ride.
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
Half the London Cabbies I've ridden with have card readers in the car, at least 90% of the ones I've gotten in Zone 1 had stickers saying they accepted them.. Cellular connected card readers aren't super high tech..
I half remember a small fee for using the card, but that's nothing new, most convenience stores charge something.
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
I work for the cab company/government so I'm going to spread FUD around instead of writing unpleasant facts.
p
who'd a thunk it.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Why would you tip someone that is going out of their way to give you bad service?
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
So it's three decades late but it's still an innovation according to them.
Capitalism and Free Markets work.
What about the London Knowledge test? who about dumping that or refund the fees to the drivers to make it more fair as the uber drivers don't have to take that test?
Let me preface this by saying: I've never been to London.
But, as I understand it, the London cabbies have to take a test they call "The Knowledge" which ensures they know a lot of the details of the layout and how to find your way around in a complicated city like London.
Apparently this test requires so much actual knowledge and spatial awareness, the cab drivers end up with measurably larger hippocampus afterwards.
So, my completely unfounded (except for what I've seen on TV) 'understanding' is the amount of studying and training required to be a London cabbie is really extensive, resulting in people who can navigate around an apparently very confusing city.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
As a techie I find it absolutely amazing that there is a taxi company that didn't accept credit cards. I agree the Uber angle doesn't warrant being mentioned here, but the article has merrit even without that.
Tip? At what arbitrary point do we decide to tip and who do we tip? Is it too much to ask that people can make a living doing work without having to rely in the generous heart of those people who they are serving?
don't have the cash on you ok I have to call the cops. You have to pay for your ride and my card reader is not working.
This argument was extremely good decades ago, but we've had the GPS for a long time now.
I hardly ever use black cabs and I've never used uber but these are some things I'd think black cabs would win on:
1. They can use bus lanes.
2. They can stop on red routes to pick up and drop off. (I suspect that an uber car will do this too but it's technically not allowed and, if you're unlucky, your car will get waved on before you can get in or get out)
3. Black cabs can get to places that a mini-cab can't (mostly due to 1)
4. Black cab drivers have to know the city and their way around central London. This is particularly valuable if you're a) new to the city and might not know the old/new/official/unofficial name of your destination. An uber driver might know, a black cab driver will know and b) when the traffic totally snarls up which it does, the driver will know if this is normal and still the best route or it's abnormal and they should try another route instead.
I think it will be a shame if Uber causes black cabs to become extinct. I'm not sure that the black cab is that expensive (relative to minicabs) but I suspect sticking to the black cab regulations (turning circle, wheelchair access etc) probably put the cars at a significant disadvantage.
(I'm not sure how uber gets around the disabled access regulations. Does it guarantee a certain proportion of it's cars will be disabled accessible? Can you request a car suitable for a wheelchair?)
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
Ever had a cab driver who had no idea of where they were going but relied on a GPS?
They end up taking the stupidest possible routes because they have no idea of where they're going. I once had a cab driver who ended up taking what seemed like the most ass-backwards route because he knew less about the city than I did.
Sometimes, GPS routes are utterly ridiculous.
I don't want to pay some clown a bunch of extra money because he got stuck in traffic or took a longer route because he had no idea where he was going.
Some bumbling idiot with no idea of where he's going and hopes the GPS will get him there ... sorry, I'm not paying for that experience. I've seen how that can turn out.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Ever had a cab driver who had no idea of where they were going but relied on a GPS?
I've had cab drivers who claimed to know where they were doing and then did much worse than a GPS. Granted, they didn't have a fancy-pants test to make sure that they would do better. The thing is that network connected GPS gets better when more people use it, but a person is always just a person. They can get better by studying... or connecting themselves to additional tools, like GPS.
Sometimes, GPS routes are utterly ridiculous.
I don't want to pay some clown a bunch of extra money because he got stuck in traffic or took a longer route because he had no idea where he was going.
Right, but that's the merit of realtime, network-connected routing. The more people use it, the better it works. It gets more data back, so it can make more accurate estimations and send you down more efficient routes. If you know a shortcut, and you can outdo the GPS, then by all means take that route while using GPS navigation and let the network learn from you instead of complaining about how bad it is!
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The exact same way they get around regulations everywhere they operate: by pretending the regulations don't apply to them.
My city has mandatory cameras in cabs -- because cab drivers have committed sexual assaults, and because cab drivers get robbed. The fought it tooth and nail until one of their own was violently robbed and the camera would have helped with the conviction.
Uber, like with insurance and proper licensing, doesn't adhere to this. Uber's entire business model is being an bootleg cab dispatch company which ignores the rules and regulations. That's kind of that they do.
When you ride with Uber, you're just getting into a stranger's car. And that doesn't always work so well.
Everyone whinges about Uber undermining the taxi monopoly ... the reality is, Uber is pretty much ignoring laws around proper licensing, insurance, background checks, and anything else.
So you really have no idea of what the hell you'll get.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I believe you have encountered an example of Poe's Law.
5. A black cab can go the long way around and charge extra.
Unfortunately this has allowed people who just arrived in the country, who have never driven on the correct side of the road, becoming taxi drivers and if their satnav goes down, they are lost. And GPS signal can get lost in a bunch of tall buildings
Black Cabs win every time, you can even get a wheelchair or pram into the back of the cab.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Perhaps you should have posted this as a reply to someone suggesting not paying as somehow legitimate.
you got that correct, its takes about 3 years to complete. they know all the back streets required to avoid jams etc.
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Without tipping, how are we to remind the little people that they are dependent on our largess?
So basically, black cabs are objectively better and should be able to maintain a price premium?
What they should do then is do what the cabs do in San Fransisco, and get themselves added as a button in uber.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Hi All,
Rare post from me, but this is close to my heart, being a long term (South) London resident. So... fuck the black cabs, really, they are truly shit in comparison to Uber. It's not just the card payment issue, it's the attitude you get from most of the drivers. They're not really interested in providing a cab service for London. They want to take bankers and tourists on short journeys around central London, and drive people to the airport and back. It can be difficult to find a black cab that will take you any distance "south of the river", so much so, it's even a cultural catch phrase here "Sorry gov, I ain't going south of the river".
Then, even when you get one, they really do cost. An Uber from central London to my place is about half the cost of a black cab. They're also not that comfortable a ride. Bumpy and cold usually. The only plus point is that they do take 5 passengers as standard, so there is that, minor, minor point....
Now, due to the black cabs being over priced, and really a bit shit, in true British fashion, rather than face actually making some kind of meaningful change to the system, a fudge has been added. Something called a "mini cab", or more accurately a "private hire vehicle". This is a just a car, no taxi meter, that you can hire to take you from A to B for a fixed price, but you can't hail it on the street, you have to call for one, or go to a pick up location. These vary wildly, from a professional, almost Uber like service such as Addison Lee, mentioned in a previous post, to a banged up, probably non street legal piece of crap driven by someone who looks like they've been awake 72 hours. Often they tout for business on the street (illegally) and, factoring in how late it is/cold the weather/drunk you are, a price is agreed... then often later disputed.
Anyway, mini cabs are licenced to operate as they do, although there are some totally illegal ones running around. The point is, black cabs never really served their purpose, so the mini cab system just kind of evolved into the cracks. It's the only type of cab most Londoners would have ever considered using.
Now we have Uber. Clean new cars, professional drivers, cheap, payments sorted in advance, phone app, the works. It's heaven. Actually, I find it interesting, all the US commenters on here talking about Uber being less professional, and operating illegally. The situation is totally different here. It is a superior cab ride in every way, and they are licenced private hire vehicles, so it's all legal. The black cab industry is trying to say that the Uber app on the drivers phone is effectively a taxi meter, and allows what is effectively street hailing, not sure how that is going, is there a court case?
Anyway, just wanted to get it off my chest. I will be so fucked off if a great service is killed, simply to protect a highly dysfunctional industry that has previously felt no pressure at all to improve their level of customer service. We all hate them anyway. This is an almost perfect "buggy whip manufacturer" situation, please let the black cab just die.
Phew....
p.s. I did see a protest by black cab drivers, about Uber, in central London recently, trying in vain to whip up some public support... they're delusional.
Who's with me?! I SAID... WHO'S WITH ME!!??
The biggest (and arguably most legitimate) excuse I see given is simply that the laws were written not to serve the public good, but to reinforce the monopoly the local cabl companies have, and has in many cases lead to a profound drop in service without the expected drop in cost that you find in a free market.
It's well-established that most successful companies exploit any advantage they can, so it's not the least bit surprising that they lower quality of service to cut costs because it has no net impact on their revenue, which can only serve to increase proffits. This only encourages a drop in quality of service, relative to cost.
In SOME respects I can understand why there are laws that encourage the monopolies. There are certain markets where competition can lead to a drop in average quality due to redundant overhead, such as power companies. I can also see where this could apply to some extend to cab service, in specific (usually small) cities. Some businesses you need to maintain a certain minimim customer base so you can do things on a profitable scale. But there's no reason for that in a big city like London.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Hence Uber's ranking system.
I dislike the company in many ways, but you can ding a poor driver in Uber.
Good luck doing that with a "normal" cab anywhere...
as I understand it, the London cabbies have to take a test they call "The Knowledge" which ensures they know a lot of the details of the layout and how to find your way around in a complicated city like London.
This is true, but GPS can obviate most of the benefits of having "The Knowledge", aside from some possible delays due to unforeseen traffic, and even then you can often tell the GPS to find an alternate route.
The Knowledge thing/test/whatever is pretty impressive but it dates from a pre-GPS period when that kind of training was very beneficial. Now it's probably moderately beneficial at best.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I think it will be a shame if Uber causes black cabs to become extinct.
Same here, but this is just part and parcel of the way of the world- things change. Some of the things that get left behind will be missed, but without artificial constraints there's no way around it- some things will inevitably drop off or disappear.
When I was young our neighborhood had a milkman who came to almost every house and dropped off milk every morning or maybe every coupe of days...it eventually became impractical for various reasons, mostly related to the costs of running a fleet of milk trucks. I kind of miss it, but there was no way it could continue to be practical (profitable) given all of the forces acting against such a service.
Is it a bad thing that milkmen are gone? Maybe, but it's the way things evolve. Some stuff gets left behind because it's no longer feasible, practical, relevant, profitable, etc etc. It is the way of the world, for better or worse.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
London cabs don't accept credit cards?!?!
Most black cabs already do. Addison Lee has had an app with driver tracking, credit card payments and so on for years. This is kind of massively not news.
I took a cab at one point late last year when Uber didn't work on my phone. The driver pretended his credit card reader wouldn't work in the hope of getting me to pay cash.
This is, incidentally, the kind of shit that makes people hate cabs.
What a preposterous argument. Should Walmart then, also be illegal for selling inferior products and driving quality out of business?
It had nothing to do with Uber and everything to do with the fact that this year in the UK more transactions were done by card than cash and the UK is quite quickly heading towards a cashless society and would be if it weren't for refusenik retailers. Lots of people in the UK, myself included, quite simply don't carry cash around anymore.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
There are still many far better ways to accomplish this if you really cared enough about it.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
And the taxis I see are 15 year[s] old
Unadulterated bullshit. I drove taxis for 3yrs, the oldest one I drove was 5yo, it had 1.2 MILLION kilometres on the clock.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
I don't want to pay some clown a bunch of extra money because he got stuck in traffic or took a longer route because he had no idea where he was going.
The one good thing about driving a cab is it teaches you how to handle arseholes - I would have thrown you out of the cab at the next bus stop
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
simple problem, simple fix.
Why would you tip someone that is going out of their way to give you bad service?
The tip is the tax money they don't pay on your fare.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
Where I am from, you cant drive a cab without a working card reader. City and County ordinance. If at the end of the ride they pull a card not working trick, I just say "too bad, thanks for the ride" and walk out. They can call the cops all day.
San Fransisco works that way too, and it's not !much of a premium. You get better cab service too, because they're still ranked. The cab industry (not the cabbies) destroyed themselves in the US. They were jerks to their customers, we hate them, and now they suffer.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
It's a lot more than just a "fancy-pants test". So much more. They know pretty much everything about London. Try entering "Half-way down that road opposite the old Tesco's in Essex Road" into your GPS and see where that leads you. Cabbies know London intimately. They know how the traffic at a given location is, and how it will be in 30 minutes. They know which roads have temporary closures, which legal-for-them-but-not-for-non-cabbies short-cuts they can take, and so on. GPS is truly a wonderful invention - I absolutely love it. Having used black cabs for years, it's clear they have nothing in a black cabby.