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C.H.I.P. vs Pi Zero: Which Sub-$10 Computer Is Better? (makezine.com)
Make Magazine weighs in on an issue that's suddenly relevant in a world where less than $10 can buy a new, (nominally) complete computer. Which one makes most sense? Both the $9 C.H.I.P and the newest, stripped-down Raspberry Pi model have pluses and minuses, but to make either one actually useful takes some additional hardware; at their low prices, it's not surprising that neither one comes with so much as a case. The two make different trade-offs, despite being just a few dollars apart in ticket price. C.H.I.P. comes with built-in storage that rPi lacks, for instance, but the newest Pi, like its forebears, has built in HDMI output. Make's upshot?
The cost of owning either a C.H.I.P. or a Pi is a bit more money than the retail cost of the boards. Peripherals such as a power cable, keyboard, mouse, and monitor are necessary to accomplish any computer task on either of the devices. But it turns out the $5 Raspberry Pi Zero costs significantly more to operate than the Next Thing Co. C.H.I.P.
Get a...grip!
eom
Should be "its forebears", not "it's forebears".
Unless you get your hands on the MagPi or live near one of the twenty-five Micro Center locations in the USA, you can't get one Pi Zero for less than $9 even when they get them back in stock in the Swag store. CHIP is not yet preordering, they are still just taking email addresses. We don't yet know how much it will cost to get one in one's hot little hands, although my name is in to be notified when it happens. element14 wants $13.50 for one, because for some reason people who haven't discovered eBay are willing to keep sending them money even though they lie about stock on hand in the best case — which is what they did during the first Raspberry Pi launch. They weren't even fulfilling orders in-house, and they had no idea how much stock was at the fulfillment center, but they were reporting stock on hand. Ask me how I know.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Fuck, this is a total non-issue. Get 10 of each sub-$10 computer, link them into a goddamn BEOWULF CLUSTER, and quit your sissy whining!
What's the problem? It doesn't fucking matter! The solution is BEOWULF CLUSTER!
Got a pain in your joints? The remedy is BEOWULF CLUSTER!
Your car won't start? Drive a BEOWULF CLUSTER instead!
Can't find your pants? Just slip into a BEOWULF CLUSTER!
Poop on the floor at work? Wipe it up with BEOWULF CLUSTER!
This report claims it won't cost 9 dollar in the future. Those are only a bait to build a community, which later on becomes the product. The 9 dollar are a loss deal to boost sales.
And I'm talking about the bare single board computers, without any accessories. They are just not available at those prices.
I don't pay for software. Why should I pay for hardware?
Because it can EASILY be integrated into a project that needs very thin and small space used. No I am not interested in desoldering the headers. Plus the built in storage is useless. I would rather swap out a microsd card to update a system than upload changes to it.
And nobody sane believes the advertised prices.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While it is extremely impressive that one could do so(given that such power for such price was unheard of until very recently), it seems rather pointless to compare these two boards on the basis that you are planning on plugging in enough peripherals to use them as your next desktop. Aside from the plummeting cost and wide availability of ludicrously overqualified x86s; the most stripped down ARM SBC is obviously going to require costlier and uglier peripheral tangles than the less stripped down ones(the CHIP has no 'sibling' designs; but is similar to Allwinner-based boards from others; the rPi zero has otherwise-identical models that add the USB hub and ethernet for you, or slightly punchier options).
The only reason to go with either of these is because you have some more constrained purpose for which the low cost and small size make the difference. So, do you want HDMI support; at the cost of bringing your own NIC; or do you want the NIC; but HDMI as an optional extra? Depends on whether you are building a headless project or not.
The other matter is the software support; which is as yet an unknown. The rPi has some Broadcom blobs that are very, very, unlikely to go away; but benefits from a known, solid, supporting ecosystem. The Allwinner A8 is a bit of an unknown quantity: the project claims to be aggressively mainlining everything(which would be extremely attractive); but Allwinner's GPL compliance has been...haphazard...at best in the past; and the MALI-400 is ARM's toy, not theirs, so they have limited control over that. If the CHIP's aspirations bear out, then it will have the distinct advantage of working with mainline kernel and u-boot. If they don't, or do only in part, then the question becomes one of 'which slightly oddball BSP is better?'
Maybe I'm just becoming increasingly cynical in my old age, but this article reads like a slashvertisement.
Taking the time to look up DAVID SCHELTEMA and CHIP and Next Thing, either a) he's a committed hobbyist who out of altruism spends the majority of his time promoting projects that he genuinely feels are superior in dozens, scores, perhaps even HUNDREDS of articles for more than a year across nearly every conceivable media form from magazines to blogs to twitter, or b) he's a paid shill (or investor) in this project.
-Styopa
Perhaps it's just me, but most of the use cases that I can think of for a small embedded device like the Raspberry Pi Zero require either Wi-Fi or Ethernet connectivity (preferably Wi-Fi for a mobile applications) to remotely access and administer it.
Since the CHIP has built in Wi-Fi, it just seems more useful for an embedded IoT type application. You could add Wi-Fi pretty easily to the old Raspberry Pi's with a USB Wi-Fi adapter, but even that is more difficult on the Zero because it doesn't have full size USB ports anymore.
I think that I'll pass on this one, and wait for a rev with Wi-Fi.
I see this "Where does this bullshit keep coming from?" all the time from you Millennial/Hipster types.
It's like you're so self-centered that you can't at all comprehend the notion that others may be experiencing problems that you aren't.
Instead of doing the sensible thing and considering that, hey, maybe the problem actually does exist, you just deny, deny, deny and cry "Where does this bullshit keep coming from?"
You're the kind of person why denies that Firefox suffers from serious performance and memory usage problems, along with a totally unusable UI, even when there are many people complaining about these problems, and Firefox's share of the market has dropped to under 8%.
You're the kind of person who denies that systemd is full of serious architectural and implementation flaws, even when there are a huge number of bug reports, mailing list postings, forum comments, blog articles, and audible screams of pain from sysadmins about these problems.
You're the kind of person who denies that GNOME 3 is a pile of shit in every way, to the point of being less useful than even CDE was, although everyone who has used it utterly hates it.
Face it, the problem our friend drinkypoo describes is a real one. These devices aren't sub-$10 for a huge number of people. Maybe you aren't affected, but that doesn't mean that other people aren't! So when you come out whining about "Where does this bullshit keep coming from?", it just makes you look like a dipshit Millennial/Hipster dickface.
I'm disappointed with the responses here as they show a total lack of imagination. Why does everyone think "new board" = "new desktop application only" ?
The Pi Zero has the potential to be a great little embedded board in all kinds of hobbyist projects. This is especially true if you can somehow run the processor and it's peripherals at a lower clock speed to reduce it's power consumption somewhat so that more battery based applications open up.
Can this new Raspberry Pi, or the CHIP, support the linux gadget framework so you can make the whole board appear as a USB device, like a memory stick, when you plug it into a desktop computer?
the purchase price is drowned immediately by other development costs, can be reduced to zero for budget purposes
which machine is easier to write programs for? which machine has mature debugged libraries? at this price point these are the things that actually matter
The amount of pushback in blog comments from C.H.I.P. employees/their kickstarter backers/whoever, is absolutely hilarious.
Someone else made a cheap computer. No, they didn't make a cheap computer just to piss you off. No, it's not quite the same. Maybe it's not better, maybe it is. This is fucking _progress_ and you're all whining like you're entitled to 'win' somehow.
Get over yourselves.
I'd like to know too. I use one of my Arduinos for that. I think it's a Pro Micro. Obviously not the -Linux- gadget support, but they can be programmed as USB gadgets. Mine has been a keyboard (for brute forcing Android PINs) and a mouse (to keep a Chrome Box from going to sleep).
I have a stack of model b pis that I use for various projects. What I love about them is that all I need is an Ethernet cable to use them. No keyboard, mouse, display - just a standard Ethernet cable and an ssh terminal. You know, that cable that hasn't changed in decades and that I have spares of in spades?
For the zero, I would need to invest in a collection of peripherals just to start it up. It's been years since I've had a USB mouse or keyboard (Bluetooth for all).
This was a big miss.
-Chris
I have a new computer that costs $0. I was able to reduce costs further by leaving out all parts entirely. It's an empty grocery bag I found outside. You have to add your own CPU, breadboard, ethernet, memory, display output, and everything else. But it's cheap!
Pi closed SOC, or C.H.I.P. unofficially(?) open SOC, but corporate which unlawfully breaks the rules of GPL.
If I buy a motherboard, cpu, and ram, but nothing else, I didn't buy a computer. I bought parts of a computer. I don't get why any of these companies (or someone else using their parts) can't sell a product that is ready to go out of the box. Surely, someone could sell a fully functional version including case, os-loaded sd card, hdmi, usb and wi-fi for ~$30 and still make money, right?
Seeing these two computers, the Pi Zero has the advantage that is already shipping. The real extra cost is everything you need to be able to use them, such as USB adapter and HDMI adapter, since otherwise the onboard sockets are two small for most standard cables.
At the same time I look at these two computers and wonder how long before they simply simply print out credit-card computers? The main challenge would likely be the things like the video connectors and usb connectors, that would require something to physically soldered on. If they did get this problem sorted, then this could reduce the manufacturing cost dramatically.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...
If you're looking for an embedded device, the Oak is Arduino with WiFi and very low power so much better.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
If I were some kid who's parents wouldn't buy him a computer and I effectively had no money then the whole thing would be about scrounging. With scrounging the key is the ready availability of parts. This then makes things like the more recent Model B units the ones that I would want. The key being that they have a standard hdmi along with the composite video. Also they have 4 standard USB plugs.
I can probably scrounge up some discarded monitor which means the only thing that I am going to have to buy is an HDMI to DVI converter ($5). After that the world is awash in old wired mice and keyboards. It is also awash in things that put out 5V from the wall along with the USB cords. Internet is still going to be a problem so finding some USB Wi-fi is probably going to be the biggest challenge.
But there is no scrounging the strange little mini-hdmi. I have never seen one of those in my life or career. And for some reason there is no great surplus of USB hubs, and I have never seen a USB hub that connects to that little USB connector. Thus that would be an adapter that would be hard to find.
So I don't see this new Pi as something for the kid who has nothing, but ideal for people like me with money and giant parts' bins who are building IoT and robots.
But I am way out in Canada. I can tell you the in store price for one of these nine dollar boards will be $19.99 and ordering it will probably push the price closer to $30. For example I was at an electronics's store going out of business sale and they "discounted" their Pi 1 A+ all the way "down" to $35.
And for any Canadians reading this we also know about the "brokerage fees" that will probably be tacked on.
a small embedded device like the Raspberry Pi Zero require either Wi-Fi or Ethernet connectivity
One assumes that the Pi ONE will fix this shortcoming. Given the price of the ESP8266, I doubt it would cost more than $1 to add connectivity. The only reason I can think of for them not doing this in the first place is to wait for a better WiFi device to hit the streets.
Once the Pi has WiFi, it will be difficult to beat at that price.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I've just been investigating this very question. I'm develop a tertiary course in "software engineering process". Small teams will need to work together to build *something*. For a variety of reasons, we think that building an embedded system would be a good thing for them to have exposure to, so I'm trying to find a suitable platform to develop on. The current Raspberry Pi and Beaglebone Black both have their strengths and weaknesses, but both would do for the job. But they both cost at least 50 AUD, which is affordable but not equivalent to zero for planning purposes. By contrast, both the C.H.I.P. and the Pi zero are so cheap that the cost can be ignored. However, both platforms require you to break out the soldering iron if you want to attach things to the GPIO ports. By the time you have something you can hook things up to without soldering, you're back up to the cost of a standard Pi anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
But it turns out the $5 Raspberry Pi Zero costs significantly more to operate than the Next Thing Co. C.H.I.P. [my bold]
Well, yes - if you add the cost of the mini-HDMI-to-HDMI dongle to the Pi and conveniently ignore the fact that the CHIP needs a $15 daughterboard for HDMI. I gave up on fuzzy composite video connections sometime in the 80s. The CHIPs main advantage seems to be bluetooth & wifi - but many applications of the Pi Zero won't need it: just load up the SD card on a PC or another Pi, plug it in and go. Its all swings and roundabouts, and which is best is going to depend on your application. If you actually want a general-purpose computer you'd probably do better to push the boat out on something like a Pi 2 model B.
The USP of all of these devices is that they are sufficiently cheap that (a) if you make something you want to keep, you just buy another one and (b) if, in your tinkering, you let the magic smoke out, there's no great drama.
Lets get real here, though, the Pi Zero is a single-run "special edition" mainly created for the publicity stunt of giving one away 'free' on a magazine cover and is already pretty much sold out (reference here) and the CHIP is only available by pledging to the kickstarter campaign (3rd FAQ here). While its quite likely that either or both of them will be popular enough to go into full production, who knows what the actual prices and specs will be?
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
All these posts and nobody picked up on the fact that the article has a photo that uses a kiwi fruit as a size reference?
Is that Imperial Kiwi, or Metric Kiwi? Can't anyone specify units anymore?
Oh, that's right, you didn't notice, because you didn't read the article.
Fine then, carry on. I'll read a few more kiwi lengths worth of comments, and then move on to something less productive... if I can find something less productive...
The current $5 price for the Pi Zero, assuming you can find one, is just the price at launch. In the long term it appears it is going to sell for more than that. Micro Center, for example, will only sell you one at the $5 price; if you want more than one they cost $10 each. And that's assuming you can even find any; they appear to have sold out for now.
The $9 price of C,H.I.P. (plus shipping), on the other hand, appears to be intended to be its permanent price, at least if you buy it directly from Next Thing Co. They seem to have a tight relationship with Allwinner, the maker of the SOC, so they should be able to sustain that price point so long as Allwinner isn't looking to make a lot of money on the chips. (I believe Allwinner considers C.H.I.P. to primarily be a tool for promoting OEM sales of SOCs rather than a profit center. Raspberry Pi benefits from a similar relationship with Broadcom.) Retail and distributor price and availability remain to be seen.
There is also the little problem that availability of C.H.I.P is still very limited. So far only the Kickstarter backers who paid extra for early access have gotten them; no boards from large scale manufacturing have shipped yet.
Full featured boards like the Raspberry Pi 2 ($30 at Micro Center much of the time) are already cheap enough for just about any application where they are going to replace a full PC, and they are more flexible because of having more ports. What these super-low-cost boards are really about is embedded systems - more powerful replacements for things like Arduino. (But they are not suitable replacements for Arduino in all applications. Having a full blown OS gets in the way of doing time-sensitive bit twiddling, as does the non-deterministic execution time of instructions on a complex CPU like ARM v6 or v7. Some systems will end up using both.)
The total cost of using one or the other will depend on the system's needs. C.H.I.P. has onboard storage and built-in WiFi and Bluetooth, so in many cases it will require nothing additional. The Pi Zero will at the very least require a MicroSD card to boot, making the total cost a wash. C.H.I.P has the edge if the system needs Ethernet and/or Bluetooth connectivity; adding those to Pi Zero will make it more expensive than C.H.I.P. On the other hand, the Pi Zero is more appealing if you need video output because it has an HDMI port; C.H.I.P. has no built-in video output hardware.
If you care about Open Hardware, then C.H.I.P. seems the obvious choice. Their FAQ claims that "We are still in the process of testing and refining the whole C.H.I.P. family. As we hit design completion, we'll release our design files." and they've already released some stuff on github.
// Contrived, but this kind of thing can happen in duck-typed languages like Javascript
// if you're reading user input and forget explicit casts.
function duckTypingIsGood() {
return Math.random()<=0.06;
return 0;
}
var votes = '';
for ( var i=0; i<100; i++ ) {
if ( duckTypingIsGood() ) votes = votes + 1;
}
console.log("In a survey of 100 programmers, "+votes+" thought duck-typing was a good idea")
// Output: In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought duck-typing was a good idea
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.