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Peter Thiel: We Need a New Atomic Age

HughPickens.com writes: Peter Thiel writes in the NYT that what's especially strange about the failed push for renewables is that we already had a practical plan back in the 1960s to become fully carbon-free without any need of wind or solar: nuclear power. "But after years of cost overruns, technical challenges and the bizarre coincidence of an accident at Three Mile Island and the 1979 release of the Hollywood horror movie "The China Syndrome," about a hundred proposed reactors were canceled," says Thiel. "If we had kept building, our power grid could have been carbon-free years ago. Instead, we went in reverse."

According to Thiel, a new generation of American nuclear scientists has produced designs for better reactors. Crucially, these new designs may finally overcome the most fundamental obstacle to the success of nuclear power: high cost. Designs using molten salt, alternative fuels and small modular reactors have all attracted interest not just from academics but also from entrepreneurs and venture capitalists like me ready to put money behind nuclear power. However, none of these new designs can benefit the real world without a path to regulatory approval, and today's regulations are tailored for traditional reactors, making it almost impossible to commercialize new ones. "Both the right's fear of government and the left's fear of technology have jointly stunted our nuclear energy policy," concludes Thiel. "supporting nuclear power with more than words is the litmus test for seriousness about climate change. Like Nixon's going to China, this is something only Mr. Obama can do. If this president clears the path for a new atomic age, American scientists are ready to build it."

12 of 366 comments (clear)

  1. "Failed" push for renewables? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    [citation needed]

    1. Re:"Failed" push for renewables? by duckintheface · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, this is the most important point that can be made about the article. It is based on a false premise: "what's especially strange about the failed push for renewables".

      Wind and solar are growing faster than ever, in the US, in China, in Europe and in the developing world. Nuclear is an over-centralized, expensive, and dangerous technology based on a limited fuel source. Renewables would be growing even faster if it were not actively opposed by the incumbent fossil fuel industry which puts up legal roadblocks and receives far more in government subsidies than renewables ever have.

      --
      "He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
    2. Re:"Failed" push for renewables? by ka9dgx · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uranium fueled reactors are the result of a premature optimization... they aren't reactive enough to work with oxides as fuel.. so you end up having to do all sorts of engineering to try to keep it from oxidizing, whilst only a small barrier away from water. It was never a good idea. The hydrogen bubble that almost made 3 mile island even worse is a result of this chemistry at work. Not only that, when Uranium splits, it only yields 90% of the energy immediately, the remaining 10% takes millions of years, which means a reactor producing 1GW of heat at load will still generate 100 Megawatts when you stop the chain reaction... and if you can't cool it, the thing will melt down.

      Thorium yields 99% of the energy immediately, which reduces the need for cooling after the fact by a factor of 10... plus in a Thorium reactor, the fuel is a liquid fluoride, which means you just have to divide the critical mass in the event of an emergency, and you're done with it. A few flat wide steel tanks encased in concrete would do the trick, even if dry.

      I'd happily live down the street from a Thorium reactor.

    3. Re:"Failed" push for renewables? by kheldan · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd happily live down the street from a Thorium reactor.

      I second the motion.
      Speaking as someone who, back in the late 80's, out of my own fear due to ignorance and a lack of foresight, voted to shut down Rancho Seco, I've come full circle on the subject, and now feel that nuclear power is, for at least the time being, an excellent option to break us out of the use of fossil fuels, at least while other technologies are being (further) developed, and from what I've read on the subject, thorium reactors are a better, safer choice than uranium reactors, and more sustainable for the time being due to the relative abundance of thorium -- assuming we've learned from our mistakes and can design and operate such plants in an appropriately safe manner. Meanwhile I'll hold out hope that we manage to solve the puzzle of workable fusion reactor design, and the proliferation of technologies like photovoltaics can do nothing but good and I encourage their further development wholeheartedly. As a sidebar we need to persuade the electric power industry to stop whinging about rooftop solar and embrace it rather than treating it like it's The Enemy Trying To Destroy Them; just another case of an outdated business model that refuses to die, and profit standing in the way of much-needed progress, much like the way the auto industry treats upstart plug-in electric vehicle manufacturers like Tesla. Big Business can't be allowed to determine the course human progress is going to take, because on average they'll choose profit over what's good for people over the long run every single time (in my opinion).

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    4. Re:"Failed" push for renewables? by gweihir · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Germany had a Thorium reactor in the 300MW range. They never managed to work out the kinks. Apparently this technology is extremely hard to get to work right.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  2. Idiot by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This guy is an idiot. Renewables haven't failed, they are rapidly improving and winning against everything else on economic grounds. Nuclear isn't failing because of fear, it's because it isn't economically viable.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:Idiot by dak664 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Melting aluminium is an *ideal* use for unreliable power: the primary cells can run at variable rates or even in reverse to stabilize the grid, or some of the molten product can be staged for running optimized Al air batteries. Germany is already doing this,
      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/...

      From that link, other energy-intensive processes may be suitable, "including those used to manufacture cement, paper, and chemicals. Making chlorine, used to produce paper, plastic, fabric, paint, drugs, and antiseptics, also requires electrolysis."

  3. Re:The most fundamental problem is not the cost.. by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Informative
  4. Waste processing is solvable. by trout007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem isn't the stuff that lasts 200,000 years. That is pretty low level. Its also not the highly radioactive stuff since it decays quickly. It's the stuff that lasts hundreds of years that is trouble. Luckily we are getting better at nuclear chemistry and our ability to separate the bad from the not bad, or even useful stuff is improving. If we hadn't had such a short sighted policy we would have moved even further.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
  5. I agree in general by globaljustin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't usually flatly agree w/ something Thiel says (he never has grown out of his Ayn Rand phase), but this time I do.

    Wind, solar, all the others...they are awesome and let's keep dumping cash into R&D for those...all of it.

    But also do nuclear.

    We have a long, long way to go before we can power our cities with renewables 100%. Nuclear has been retarded by 4 decades of fear-mongering...nuclear is safe when done correctly. The 3 Mile Island disaster killed no one and displaced only a small ammount of people...it wasn't anything like Chyrnoble.

    It's 40 years later and we can make reactors that are safer by orders of magnitude than the 100s we've been using for decades that have been working perfectly.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  6. Re: The most fundamental problem is not the cost.. by dcollins117 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This solar panel meme is repeated over and over again by the rabbit anti-technologists but no evidence agrees with their position.

    I think I see what the problem is. You should be getting your technology advice from people, not rabbits.

  7. Re:Yes by fnj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just require that every atomic plant owner makes an insurance, for which you require that they have proper securities.

    Fine; you've loaded the cost onto the ratepayers, which is just about everyone, so that's not unreasonable, but you have also made some low-life parasitic scum in an insurance company rich as lords, which there is no need or excuse to do.

    Let the society as a whole "insure" the plant owners against catastrophes, as they largely do now. Then it's still the same "everyone" paying the cost, but you've eliminated the parasites.

    But I would complete the rationalization. I would make society as a whole the builders and operators of the plants. Then you've eliminated more parasites, and profit motives would never intrude into the operation and create lackadaisical, corner-cutting practices.

    Tell me this hasn't worked wonders for France.