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Driverless Cars Will Compete -- But Only With Each Other -- In Formula E Races

Formula E racing pits single-seat electric cars against each other in high-speed track competition, but the cars -- aside from their powertrain -- are conventional enough, complete with a steering wheel and a human at the wheel. Now, though, the Formula E series will also incorporate self-driving cars. From the article: Ten teams, each with two cars, will square off against each other in hour-long races on the same circuits that the Formula E cars will hurtle around. The cars will be the same as the next in order to get the teams’ developers to focus on creating better algorithms and artificial intelligence to win. It takes inspiration from how the Formula E teams were required to run the same cars in the event’s debut season, which meant there was more focus on the development of battery technology.

44 comments

  1. Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by Theovon · · Score: 1

    No driver will save some weight. Or you can lower the position of more battery so that you get some more charge and better weight distribution. And obviously, without a driver, they can pull more G's in turns, nevertheless still limited by tires and downward force.

    One concern I have is that without a driver, safety will become less of a concern. Obviously, they also don't want to wreck cars that cost millions of dollars, but a wreck would not incur the loss of a human life. (I hope that's important to racing teams.) However, if these cars will be racing at the same time on the same track as human drivers (even if they're in two separate rankings), then the risk to other drivers will be increased.

    1. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A) Odds are that the weight limit will not be reduced, and they may include weighted dummies for comparison purposes.

      B) They say the same circuit, but that might not be the same race. In any case, the biggest dangers on the track are to the non-driving personnel. Many of them don't wear firesuits, helmets, or have a crash cage.

    2. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by rasmusbr · · Score: 2

      A crash at high speed can cause dozens of human deaths if the car becomes airborne and lands on a spectator stand. The higher the speed, the greater the danger.

      I think safety should be a huge concern if they plan to have spectators at races with robotic cars.

      With that said it would be pretty awesome if we could see where Formula One had taken us speed-wise if the driver hadn't been the weakest link. They've been adding rules to slow cars down ever since the early 1970's, so there's 40+ years of technological progress in things like engine technology and aerodynamics that might suddenly get an outlet if someone decides to start a no-rules (except for rules restricting the size and weight of the car) robotic race series...

    3. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by grahamtriggs · · Score: 2

      It says the cars will be of the same specification. Theroretically, you can save some weight by not having a driver - more interestingly, you can save space by not providing room for a driver. Maybe that means smaller, more stream lined cars? Maybe it means adding more batteries so they can run longer - adding weight.

      And true, you aren't G restricted on the basis of what a driver can withstand - but the driver isn't the limit of the amount of G cars can currently pull; the rules and restrictions of car design, the limit of grip of the tyres are.

      So it will all depend on the design of car that they mandate for everybody as to how fast they ultimately run.

      More reckless? Maybe. You don't have to worry about driver safety, only stewards and spectators. So there is less of a risk of someone being injured from a crash.

      But the old saying is "in order to finish first, first you must finish". It will be interesting to see how aggressive different algorithms are, and how they respond to different circumstances. There is always a possibility of an "error in calculation", but the algorithms are unlikely to be out and out reckless, because they won't achieve anything by not finishing.

    4. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      A crash at high speed can cause dozens of human deaths if the car becomes airborne and lands on a spectator stand.

      Only if there are spectators in the stands. Really, who want's to watch a bunch of automated machines race each other? You may as well just load up Gran Turismo and watch the demo without playing it.

    5. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by orasio · · Score: 1

      But the old saying is "in order to finish first, first you must finish". It will be interesting to see how aggressive different algorithms are, and how they respond to different circumstances. There is always a possibility of an "error in calculation", but the algorithms are unlikely to be out and out reckless, because they won't achieve anything by not finishing.

      The fact that Senna existed proves that saying teaches you nothing .
      He was a lot more aggressive than other drivers, had lots of problems because of that, not just accidents, but managed to get 3 championships.
      I'm pretty sure the reason others are not more like Senna is that they don't want to end their life against a wall. AIs won't care about that kind of thing.

    6. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Sennas death had nothing at all to do with his approach during races - there were a boat load of factors riding against him on that fateful lap.

    7. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...who want's to watch a bunch of automated machines race each other?

      i do.

      Very much so. Can't wait.

    8. Re:Weight savings, more G's, more recklessness by grahamtriggs · · Score: 1

      Aggressive does not equal reckless.

      In every generation there are drivers at the front of the grid that are more aggressive than their competitors - Senna, Schumacher, etc. That they aren't constantly crashing, that they are winning multiple titles, shows that they aren't reckless.

      At the same time, you have the likes of Prost, who became multiple world champion through consistency rather than outright performance.

      No, AIs don't inately have a sense of self preservation - they function as they have been programmed to do. But the people that write them and the people that run the teams will care how the AI performs. Especially if you are invested in providing AIs for road cars - you're not going to make many sales of an AI that continually crashes spectacularly.

  2. The winning team will use Rust. I am sure of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The winning team will use Rust to program their car.

    Rust is a systems programming language that runs blazingly fast, prevents segfaults, and guarantees thread safety.

    Featuring
            * zero-cost abstractions
            * move semantics
            * guaranteed memory safety
            * threads without data races
            * trait-based generics
            * pattern matching
            * type inference
            * minimal runtime
            * efficient C bindings

    It is a systems programming language so it can be used for systems like artificial intelligence driving a car.

    It is blazingly fast which is what you need when driving fast.

    It prevents segfaults which is good because you don't want a segfault when you are driving!

    It guarantees thread safety which means the fabric on the seats of the car will remain clean and intact.

    It has zero-cost abstractions which will keep the price of the car down.

    It has move semantics which is just what you want from a car: movement!

    It has guaranteed memory safety which is good because you don't want your car to forget where it is.

    It has threads without data races which is critical because it means that there can be no data racism because there are no races.

    It has trait-based generics which are good because they mean that, generically speaking, the car has good traits.

    It has pattern matching which is very important because the car needs to differentiate between what is road and what is not road.

    It has type inference which is good to have because it can infer what is road and what is not road.

    It has minimal runtime which is totally what you want in a race: you want to run it in the shortest time possible!

    It has efficient C bindings which means it's as fast as C because most Rust code actually gets written in C and then glued together using Rust because C is a much more useful, efficient, and faster programming language than Rust is.

  3. I love the future! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are going to remove people from driving cars but insist to put humans into tin cans in the upper atmosphere.

    Um, it should be the reverse.

    1. Re:I love the future! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We push humans into the unknown to make it known. The roadways and racetracks are about as known as the back of a persons hand. Can't prepare systems for things we don't know about. Also, being flung through space at high speeds is fun. More Gs please.

      That all aside, it sounds like they want a stock car race. I'm surprised I didn't see that word in the summary any where. I'd rather see a Robot NASCAR than a side project of a racing league (Formula E) I've never heard of.

    2. Re:I love the future! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We push humans into the unknown to make it known."

      When was the last "explore the bottom of the ocean" story on slashdot? Was there ever a "drill deeper into the Earth's crust" mythology like there is for space?

    3. Re:I love the future! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That all aside, it sounds like they want a stock car race. I'm surprised I didn't see that word in the summary any where. I'd rather see a Robot NASCAR than a side project of a racing league (Formula E) I've never heard of.

      They're not at the "stock car" side of things but more on the single constructor level.

      And NASCAR isn't ready to change their formula for this kind of experiment. At most, they'd run a companion race, and really, none of their tracks are Formula E suitable anyway.

    4. Re:I love the future! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If we, as a species, wish to survive the eventual death of our planet, we will to develop the ability to eventually leave it. And given the speed in which we make progress in outer space (if we don't happen to be in a childish dick-comparison contest with Ivan next door), time isn't really on our side in this.

      On the other hand, I think we have perfected human's ability to drive around pointlessly in a circle. If anything, taking the human out of the game would make it far more interesting. You can make it faster and far, far more dangerous to the cars. Because, hey, if they crash and go up in a fireball, who gives a shit? Provided that you can ensure the safety of the spectators, there is exactly zero chance that anyone could get hurt if they blow up spectacularly. Finally it would be interesting to watch cars drive around aimlessly.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:I love the future! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who thinks like that? Who are you to talk for the entire species? The death of our planet? Evolution is still happening, there were no humans a million years ago, there won't be a human species in another million.

    6. Re:I love the future! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, judging how we act, I doubt we have a million years to go.

      I think that far we can actually agree.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. it has nothing to do with noemal driverless cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cars will be programmed specifically for each race, following planned strategies, on painstakingly staked out tracks which will look nothing like a normal road.

  5. Re: it has nothing to do with noemal driverless ca by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, other than vehicle control at the limits of traction, machine learning to find out what those limits are, emergency control when limits are exceeded, changing track conditions like rain and obstacle avoidance for when the other cars run into a wall and leave car bits all over your pre-programmed racing line.

  6. systemd by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    But will the self-driving cars be 3D-printed on Mars by Elon Musk?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure but they will most certainly contain many arduino and be paid for in bitcoin

  7. Mind Game by monkeyxpress · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is actually a lot more interesting than might first appear. When doing timed laps such as during qualifying, sure, it is pretty much about just optimising a whole bunch of parameters. I would imagine the superior ability of the driverless car to sense grip and slip on each wheel and create a dynamic map of grip around the track would mean it could quite easily beat a human driver without a lot of 'artificial intelligence'.

    However, when wheel to wheel racing it is a whole different story. Unless you have artificial overtaking aids (DRS, boost modes) then overtaking a car that has the same performance as you is essentially a mind game. A common strategy is simply to hound the other driver using the draft to get right on their tail, fill their mirrors, and try to pressure them into making a mistake. This used to be quite common in F1 before we had fuel and tyre restrictions and DRS. It was a real test of a driver's mental strength to have to perform under that sort of direct pressure.

    Another way is to play games with the other driver. For example, on a corner that allows loose racing lines, you can try to trick a car you want to overtake into defending on your weaker line, but then once you've lulled them into believing this is the way they always need to defend, you swap it up. Sometimes this may only get you in position to complete the overtake on a subsequent corner, so these types of moves can be very complex.

    However, perhaps the most psychological part of racing, is simply the 'how crazy is the other driver' effect. Sometimes wheel to wheel racing is all about playing a game of chicken into a corner. The most common way is you dive in and rely on the driver you are trying to overtake giving you space, even if it is border line as to whether racing rules would require them to do so. You basically say, I want the corner, you either hit me and we both go out, or you let me through. This plays out in really interesting ways, for example in F1 Bottas and Raikonen have been in this mind battle for the last few races. They had a run in earlier in the year where Raikkonen made a move on Bottas and they collided. Bottas was out of the race and Raikkonen essentially got his place. In a subsequent race, Raikkonen tried a similar move and Bottas didn't give him any space, causing them to both get taken out of the race. Bottas actually said after the race that if he'd given Raikkonen space then everyone would just try that pass on him, knowing he is a soft touch.

    When we actually have good wheel-to-wheel racing (which sadly F1 has not had for a while now) motorsport does relies heavily on human performance and it's faults. That is still why a lot of fans watch it, and I think this AI car thing really misses that point.

    1. Re:Mind Game by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      With AIs, this takes it to another level. If one AI knows the program the other is running, they can screw over the other one with impunity. "My 'minimum distance from another car' limit is smaller than yours, get off the track." It could be countered by having an AI that tries to detect when another is trying to screw them, but that is likely to have some hilarious miscalculations. Even then, if you have their AI program you can go just under the limit before counter-screwing routines activate.

      In the end, it'll be fun to see how they do information security of their AI program vs social engineering. Mind games indeed.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    2. Re:Mind Game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...

      Another way is to play games with the other driver. For example, on a corner that allows loose racing lines, you can try to trick a car you want to overtake into defending on your weaker line, but then once you've lulled them into believing this is the way they always need to defend, you swap it up. ...

      This move is also known as the "Days of Thunder".

  8. See. Formula E IS innovative by Idou · · Score: 1
    --
    Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    1. Re: See. Formula E IS innovative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the cars would be intelligent they would learn to escape the racetrack and start to roam the world - free and happy!

    2. Re:See. Formula E IS innovative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even saying he was bashing NASCAR is a bit much, suggesting a modification to the series to do what you think is an improvement is not quite bashing, and it isn't even greatly diverging from existing competition levels.

    3. Re: See. Formula E IS innovative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would driving freely make them happy? If I would program a AI for a race car it would get happy from driving the track and get euphoric from winning.

  9. Driverless Race == Watcherless Race by burni2 · · Score: 1

    Ok, not at first, because it's a war of the minds of engineers. = Tension!

    But that is not what the majority of people want to see. We could test that for example if someone fires up his/her FEA Application and introduces people to the painstaking art of stress&weight optimization of a critical design.

    I would watch that for hours, but I bet any of my neighbours would.

    Also with control optimization for such driverless cars - to operate near the tipping point when rolling friction tipps to sliding friction.

    That would simply be their secret and in consequence kept secret.

    Simple Example:
    When rolling friction tipps to sliding friction = you hit the brake of a pre ABS-car and your wheels are stopped from rolling and then they only slide.

    So where is the fun. The fun in a car race is the human factor or the human failiure!

    1. Re:Driverless Race == Watcherless Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once the technology has developed enough it should become a man vs machine battle, with each team required to enter two cars one with a driver and one without.

    2. Re:Driverless Race == Watcherless Race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I humbly disagree. I'm sure watching computers fail can be just as fun, especially when there are different human teams behind.

      I got sick of the whole well-Schumacher-is-better-than-everyone-else-so-what's-the-point. With algorithms, you'll never know what the competition has been up to the next year. In the future, I hope we'll see different car designs allowed, so it'll be a real alround engineering battle. :)

    3. Re:Driverless Race == Watcherless Race by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, then it's not who has the better driver but who has the better programmer. Doesn't really change much.

      In the end, it is ALWAYS a game of human failure. Because in the end, a human makes it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. unexpected by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    well, it was really unexpected but they actually managed to invent a race where i'm not secretly hoping the cars fly off the track... ok, well maybe just a little.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:unexpected by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      A little? I'm dead certain that wanting to see cars crash and explode is exactly why a lot of the fans go to such events. At least with this they can enjoy cars crash and burn without any feeling of guilt.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. How to win by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

    The winner will be the car with the most realistic image of a child about to run into the street painted on the back.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:How to win by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What makes you think the programs of the cars would give a fuck about the three laws. You are aware that they are part of a story, not actual laws, right?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:How to win by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I didn't interpret that as an Asimov reference at all.

      Current autonomous car AIs are very much being taught how to recognise small children and avoid running them over.

      I'd suggest on a racecar a child would be a less effective image. A race marshall however..

    3. Re:How to win by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I wasn't referencing the Three Laws, I was referencing the current state of AI in self-driving car technology. It was a joke, but apparently it's flown over everyone's head, it's a shame Slashdot doesn't let you delete comments.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  12. Re:The winning team will use Rust. I am sure of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nah. Computational speed isn't really the issue.

  13. A different use for such cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some F1 teams have two-seaters and for a hefty price or if you're a daring VIP you can get a couple of laps around the track driven by an F1 driver (usually test driver since the stars' time is too valuable). Maybe these cars could be used to sell such experiences in an even better format. You could get better visibility than from behind the driver and maybe also have some adjustment for how many percent of maximum speed you want the car to drive you. At "full" speed such an experience makes some people pass out due to the G-forces in some curves.

  14. Re:The winning team will use Rust. I am sure of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Duh! It'll be Swift, 'cause they want it to go faster!

    (Still on phone, not logged in.)

  15. No car will finish the race by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
    It's going to take more then one race to get to the point where there will be an actual winner. Crashes and mishaps will take all the cars off the track before any one crosses the finish line.

    The task of racing is very different then the task of driving. It requires aggression, not caution. Current driverless cars are all about not crashing, and that is a very different problem.

    It's really different. For example, there needs to be a yellow flag mode where cars hold their relative place. When there is an accident with debris on the track, how do you clear the track? Do all the cars stop?

    Can the navigation algorithms execute responsively enough at track speeds? Many of the current automomous vehicles use 3D scanners. Can those keep up at high speeds? How does the common vehicle encompass all the different sensors that various competitors want to use?

    Look at the results of the DARPA Grand Challenges. The cross desert race was won by the team that manually added a large number of way points, in some sense defeating the intent of the challenge. The more recent robot challenge showed that humanoid robots are not ready for very much besides walking and cannot traverse uneven terrain. Why should race cars be any different?

    Still, I think it would be an entertaining first lap where everything goes to hell and the track is strewn with really expensive gear. You could make book on how many cars make it past the first turn. Zero would be a good bet.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
    1. Re:No car will finish the race by pbf · · Score: 1

      With that mindset, the winning team will be the one with the 20mph car. At that speed it will be able to steer itself around the other team's wrecks and finish the race in a day or two... How exciting!

      --
      et les Shadoks pompaient...
  16. Why have all the cars stopped? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only winning move is not to play.