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Los Angeles Flirts With Pre-Crime (washingtonpost.com)

Posted by Soulskill on from the what's-a-nice-town-like-you-doing-with-a-law-like-this dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The city of Los Angeles is considering a new plan to fight prostitution: sending letters to men who solicit prostitutes in the hopes that the letters are seen by family members. Why not just arrest them while they're doing it? Because these letters aren't being sent to the houses of men who were convicted, or even arrested. Instead, automated license plate readers would scan the cars driving down streets known to have a prostitution problem, and the letters would be sent to the address associated with those vehicles. An article about the plan says, "There isn't 'potential' for abuse here, this is a legislated abuse of technology that is already controversial when it's used by police for the purpose of seeking stolen vehicles, tracking down fugitives and solving specific crimes."

32 of 390 comments (clear)

  1. A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by taustin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're used to being sued, and losing. I guess they're under budget this year, and need to spend a few more million before New Years day on legal fees.

    1. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by NoKaOi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're used to being sued, and losing.

      Yup, and apparently they don't care. I'm pretty sure what they are doing is the epitome of libel. It's not abuse of technology, and future president is not at question. They are intentionally trying to defame somebody by accusing them of something they haven't done.

    2. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by pete6677 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Prostitution should be legalized and regulated, and human trafficking should be aggressively prosecuted. Let consenting adults engage in whatever services they deem fit, and then focus law enforcement resources on those who actually harm others.

    3. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Jesus were alive today, the LAPD would send a letter to His family informing them that he might have a prostitution problem.

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    4. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by FictionPimp · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'd start paying hookers to hang out in front of city hall so their families can get letters like this.

    5. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by Calydor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A lot of people only WORK because they really the money, to feed their family.

      Consent should be easy: If the prostitute wants to say no but another person is saying yes FOR her, that is not consent.

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    6. Re:A day that ends in "y" for LAPD by omnichad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Prostitution *is* legal in the US. As long as you film it and sell the resulting video.

  2. It reminds me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It reminds me of when I visited a friend in hospital, then as I walked back to where I had parked past an abandoned strip club a woman driving past yelled angrily at me "I hope you had a good time". False positives like that are bound to happen.

    1. Re:It reminds me by slazzy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      On "black friday" I had someone yell at me for parking in a handicap parking spot, until I pointed the the sign that actually said for parents with small children only (of which I had my two small children in the car... false positives are guaranteed to happen.

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    2. Re:It reminds me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It reminds me of when I visited a friend in hospital, then as I walked back to where I had parked past an abandoned strip club a woman driving past yelled angrily at me "I hope you had a good time". False positives like that are bound to happen.

      As a high school senior I was once visiting a building that had a bunch of picketers outside, a building with a medical clinic that provided STD screenings and abortions. When a pair of "grandmotherly" ladies with concerned looks approached me and asked if I was visiting the clinic on such and such a floor I truthfully answered that I was visiting the Marine Corp recruiter on a different floor. Their concerned looks turned into expressions of joy and love and they said "that's wonderful". When I responded to their reactions with "so its perfectly OK to kill once the other person is born?", their reactions changed to a bit hostile. I think they would have been less hostile had I said I'm meeting my girlfriend for her abortion. The hypocrisy of their "all life is sacred" argument annoyed me. I would have been polite had they offered me some bible versus to read before going in, made some sort of anti-war comment in keeping with their "all life is sacred" notion. Such comments would have been consistent with their beliefs.

    3. Re:It reminds me by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's just your inner rape culture talking. There's no such thing as false positives or false accusations.

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    4. Re:It reminds me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      "If someone is accused of parking in a handicap space, it doesn't matter if it's a handicap space or not. They're just not the kind of person we want parking in our parking lots."

    5. Re:It reminds me by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I know someone whose wife was pregnant. The pregnancy went horribly wrong and the fetus had zero chance of survival (congenital deformities as well as no bladder or kidneys). They had to make a choice I wouldn't wish on anyone: Have an abortion or carry it to term and give birth to a dead baby. The latter would also have put his wife in danger also so they decided on the abortion.

      On their way into the clinic, they were accosted by pro-life demonstrators who verbally abused them for "murdering their baby." Here's a couple who is making a horrible decision after being through a horrible situation and these people just walk up with no knowledge of the situation and pile more abuse on. When his wife was taken in for the procedure (he wasn't allowed in), he decided he had enough and confronted them. He even videoed it and posted it to YouTube as well as blogged about it.

      Regardless of your views, preying on people at their weakest (physically or psychologically) is just wrong. If you want to oppose abortion in the political arena, go right ahead (but don't be surprised if you're opposed by those who want abortion to remain an option). However, don't just assume you know the whole tale and then assume you know what's right for the person you're accosting. Some people need to re-learn the grade school lesson about what happens when you "assume."

      (NOTE: I'm using the general "you" here. Not referring to anyone in particular here.)

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    6. Re:It reminds me by climb_no_fear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unfortunately true similar tale:

      A friend of mine got pregnant, unplanned but she was old enough to be happy anyway and say what the hell, I'll be a single mom.

      She went for her checkups and scans and the doctor found a cyst in her uterus. The observed it for a couple of weeks and it was growing like crazy. Doctor told her it would kill her long before the baby could be born if she didn't have it removed (which meant removing her uterus and, of course, the fetus).

      She was naturally distraught but after a couple of days made the only sensible decision she could and went back to the doctor at that hospital.

      He told her with a horrified look and told her that they don't do "that sort of procedure" at this hospital.

      She went to a nearby city and had to re-explain everything, have records transferred, etc, in order to save her own life...

  3. Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, if a girl wants to sell her body, why shouldn't she?

    1. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by Beck_Neard · · Score: 5, Informative

      In virtually all developed countries in which prostitution has been legalized, human trafficking issues have decreased.

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    2. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Strictly speaking, she's not selling her body, she's offering a short-term rental. And, of course, not all prostitutes are women.

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    3. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually prostitution is not heavily associated with human trafficking from a statistical perspective at all -- in the USA, Europe and Asia. There are some places in the world, like the Middle East and parts of Afrifa, where abduction is indeed a statistically significant issue. Trafficking is also largely associated with underage or child prostitution, which is an entirely different animal.

      But the issue here, as with narcotics (and alcohol prohibition, once upon a time), is that illegality begets higher-prices and higher risks, which in turn begets increasingly violent crime. Illegality also prevents the industry from being taxed and to some extent from accessing healthcare -- both of which carry significantly higher social costs than negligible human trafficking.

      Most importantly: we have civil liberties in the United States and in Europe which are supposed to protect the right to privacy, and the right for consenting adults to engage in consensual, sexual behavior. What is deeply ironic is how the very same feminists who demand that government "keep your laws off my body", seem to be quite alright with government telling them they don't have the right to engage in the oldest and most basic transaction.

      The fact that "money" is raised as a distinction between prostitution and sex is ultimately rather laughable, considering that money is almost never not an issue. Women will always and forever be attracted to wealth, and have sex for wealth. Female doctors do not screw male nurses. Female restaurant owners don't bang waiters. Female pilots don't shack up with male flight attendants. Female bosses don't get banged by their male secretaries. Money and power are always and everywhere part of female attraction -- be it long term, or a quick hook-up. But I digress. The point is, money and sex are now and forever inseparable concepts.

      Enlightened societies like Holland and Germany have long ago legalized prostitution, and so should the USA.

    4. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      2. Prostitution is *heavily* associated with human trafficking

      Illegal prostitution is associated with human trafficking. This is a an argument for legalization. Anyway, "human trafficking" is a far smaller problem than commonly believed. It has been wildly exaggerated by law enforcement as an excuse to increase their funding.

      ... a girl being forced to sell her body, rather than wanting to. This is the reason that really matters.

      Again, this is something that is worsened by criminalization. The best cure for coercive prostitution is legalization and regulation.

       

    5. Re:Why is prostitution illegal in the first place? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In many cases, legalising prostitution has increased human trafficking. Legalising prostitution increases the market and increases demand, hence the increase in human trafficking. Not just theory, there are statistics to back this up. [No citation given, do your own homework]

      I believe prostitution should be legal. It's a moral issue: as someone else pointed out, there is no reason to forbid two or more consenting adults to enter into such a transaction. That there are others being forced into it without consent is irrelevant to the morality of the matter: forbidding prostitution on this ground is like forbidding everyone to have sex because rapes do take place. With that said, there may be practical reasons to penalise prostitution: when the vast majority of cases is not consensual, for instance.

      With that said, legalising prostitution also gives law enforcement an opportunity to better police the market. If they take that opportunity, human trafficking can be reduced quite effectively. One way that seems to work well is to make soliciting an unwilling prostitute a punishable offence. Another thing they have done in my country is to change labour and tax laws a bit to make legal prostitution a lot easier and safer, for the johns, the women, and operators of establishments where this takes place. With plenty legal venues and prostitutes on the market and severe penalties for human trafficking, it's no longer very attractive to hire, exploit or solicit an illegal prostitute.

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  4. That is so not absurd. by rmdingler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Instead, automated license plate readers would scan the cars driving down streets known to have a prostitution problem, and the letters would be sent to the address associated with those vehicles.

    Automated iris recognition scanning software should then be used to identify all milk drinkers as children, as a very high percentage of pedophiles drank milk as children.

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  5. WTF? by Etherwalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are the police insane? So if someone drives down the wrong street because they don't know that you're not supposed to drive down that street, the police are going to ruin their marriage? For that matter, if someone happens to drive to a bar in that neighborhood, the police are going to harass them?

    *Headdesk*

    Also, cue the lawsuit in 3... 2... 1...

    1. Re: WTF? by guruevi · · Score: 3, Funny

      If a baseless accusation of being a John ruins your marriage, you got bigger problems to worry about. I'd recommend you visit a good divorce attorney tomorrow.

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    2. Re: WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Marriage is built on trust. Anything that puts a crack in that trust, unfounded or not, can ruin marriages. It all depends on who you're married to and what their reaction is.

    3. Re: WTF? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a baseless accusation of being a John ruins your marriage, you got bigger problems to worry about. I'd recommend you visit a good divorce attorney tomorrow.

      If a baseless accusation of being paedophile/embezzler/thief/terrorist ruins your employers trust in you, you got bigger problems to worry about.

      (See how that works?)

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    4. Re: WTF? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a baseless accusation of being a John ruins your marriage, you got bigger problems to worry about. I'd recommend you visit a good divorce attorney tomorrow.

      This isn't just some random guy walking up to a couple and saying "Your husband was seen with a prostitute." This is an official letter from the police. There's (for better or worse) a sense of authority there. People (such as his wife, family, friends, co-workers) will think "they wouldn't be accusing him of that unless there was proof it happened." Even if he denies it, the doubt will still be there. (After all, someone who is guilty would deny it too, right?)

      This could either lead to more problems or worsen existing ones. Perhaps the couple is going through money problems and stress is running high. The husband was supposed to be out looking for work (and was) but now the wife wonders if instead he was spending what little money they have left on prostitutes. Is it rational? No, but people can often be irrational when in the heat of the moment. Something like this could crumble a relationship all because LA is trying to "tackle pre-crime."

      Coming at this from another angle, if it doesn't ruin relationships, it could ruin the reputation of the police department (or what little reputation it has left). If people see these letters as a joke, then any accusation from the police might be seen as false. Actual criminal cases could be impacted because people don't take the police seriously.

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  6. "Flirting" with pre-crime? by CrashPoint · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a little beyond "flirting" with pre-crime. This is more like taking pre-crime to Bed, Bath and Beyond to pick out curtains for the apartment you and pre-crime are about to move into.

  7. An easy solution to this... by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just steal a car before you start scoping out the whores. It works in GTA.

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  8. Follow the Money by Princeofcups · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As often is the case, you just have to follow the money trail. Someone paid off someone else to push their expensive license plate scanners and services. The police may not even have wanted to do this, but someone up the chain of command got a free vacation home in the Bahamas for implementing the program. It'll all get swept under the rug soon, after enough uproar.

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  9. Wow, thanks Los Angelos by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've been trying come up with a concrete example of how license plate readers could be abused and here we are.

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  10. Solution by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1. Copy legislator's license plates.
    2. Place phony plates on cars near streets known to have a prostitution problem.
    3. Hilarity ensues as Los Angeles legislators get prostitution warning letters.

  11. really not a problem by david_bonn · · Score: 4, Informative

    When you RTFA it says the proposal has been referred to the City Attorney.

    So the City Attorney will write back that this is a Stupid Idea. Said idea is circular filed and life goes on.