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The Race To Create a Hyperloop Heats Up (wsj.com)

An anonymous reader writes: When Elon Musk unveiled his idea for the "Hyperloop" transportation system based on capsules zipping through depressurized tubes, much was made about the enormous technical challenges the system would face in development. However, that didn't stop a number of companies and organizations from starting to work on it. Several companies are pushing the development work hard, and it's shaping up like a race to a workable prototype. University teams are only increasing their efforts as well. "The Illinois team enters the SpaceX contest with a strong competitive edge. This is its fourth Hyperloop design project, the first dating to fall 2013, and the Hyperloop is now a part of the MechSE curriculum. The team has assembled an interdisciplinary network of faculty from aeronautical engineering, thermal dynamics, mechanical engineering, electronic engineering and software, and two of the team members have interned at SpaceX."

14 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. The pod has been pressurized to minimize the G by trout007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The pod has been pressurized to minimize the G forces effects on a passenger."

    Really? How is that little trick performed?

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    1. Re:The pod has been pressurized to minimize the G by hey! · · Score: 4, Funny

      "The pod has been pressurized to minimize the G forces effects on a passenger."

      Really? How is that little trick performed?

      Simple: they depolarize the tachyon flow to the defector dish. It's almost like you've never even seen an episode.

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  2. An even better design? by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they should bury it so it can be a straight line tube cutting into the earth's curvature. Then you can just "fall" from Los Angeles to SF with no propulsion needed. The theoretical transit time, ignoring the friction, is 43 minutes. the energy you need to supply is to overcome the friction. Since gravity will be both accelerating this and decelerating this there's no need for a complex propulsion system, decelleration system with energy reclamation. Less to go wrong, and less abrupt acceleration of the passengers, and probably greater safety.
    Of course the hard part of this is you have to tunnel underground to make a straight line cutting in to the earth. Since LA to SF is about 400 miles along the surface and the earth's circumference is about 25000 miles this means arc length is about 0.016 radians. thus 25000/2/pi*(1-cos(0.016/2)) = 0.127 miles.
    so the center of this would be roughly 1/8th of a mile buried or 672 feet at the deepest point (ignoring the mountains). This doesn't seem radically crazy as a depth for boring a hole.

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    1. Re:An even better design? by Scottingham · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then you can just "fall" from Los Angeles to SF with no propulsion needed.

      I've found that if you use the word 'just' when describing anything related to engineering it's WAY more complex than you think it is, and usually impossible.

    2. Re:An even better design? by SharpFang · · Score: 3, Interesting

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      12km, or 40,000ft and they were unable to keep up due to heat melting the drill.

      If you're going to cut into Earth curvature, in a straight line with maximum 10km depth the longest you can go is 714km.

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    3. Re:An even better design? by Software · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You're talking about a project that's 10 times longer than the Channel Tunnel, which took 6 years and cost £13 billion in today's dollars. Of course, there's no English Channel overhead, so you can make boreholes overhead and pull out the rock that way instead of hauling it along the length of the tunnel. But on the other hand, you don't have the advantage of being able to choose the tunnels' path to get favorable geology - given the higher speeds, you're pretty much stuck with going through whatever rock is in your way.

      Plus, a straight line tube is not going to accelerate rapidly enough to get you there in 43 minutes. Are you assuming that you're going to be accelerating at 9.81 m/s^2? I think you'd be closer to 0.3 m/s^2.

  3. Huckleberry Musk by Thud457 · · Score: 4, Funny

    boy, painting this fence is really fun.

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  4. other enormous challenges not considered. by nimbius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1. the majority of americans outside a handful of cities still consider public transportation to be a mark of poverty and avoid it at all costs. others cant be bothered to even consider a greyhound to the next state, let alone a train, and once they arrive the local public transit infrastructure based on their destination is either so poor as to be unusable or nonexistent through legislative fiat.

    2. We cant keep up. our bridges, roads, highways and railroads are crumbling further into the dirt each year, and neither body of legislation seems capable of passing meaningful funding. the hyperloop would surely face the same fate as a majority invested government project that eventually turned into public private, then abandoned once the payout wasnt suitable for corporations, and finally maintained at about a quarter of its original capacity.

    3. the initial projection for this works project (and, it would be a works project) is six billion dollars. America cant manage to keep its government running for more than 2 years at a time in this foul year of our lord 2015. It wont fund education, its states wont fund healthcare, and its been cutting federal public transit funding for 35 years. the only way a hyperloop is getting built is if it somehow includes a rider to invade a neighbouring country.

    the only real reason companies even thought of doing work with the hyperloop is to do what companies do: suckle at the taxpayer teat. You start by investing in a renewable effort, secure grants and loans, develop a few proof of concept ideas, sell out to a capital management firm, and then declare bankruptcy.

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    1. Re:other enormous challenges not considered. by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What percentage of Americans consider flying with commercial airlines to be the mark of poverty?

      Hyperloop isn't a replacement for buses or city cars. It's a replacement for airplanes. Supersonic travel with high initial but low unit cost - airplanes are very wasteful because they need to use a lot of energy just to prevent falling. Hyperloop train, once running, keeps running with only minimal friction losses and can recuperate most of energy used on acceleration during braking.

      It actually drives a lot of funds towards science/education. But yeah, the initial investment is huge. I mean, something like, 6% the amount any of the wars USA started!

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  5. I wonder if it can aid in space launches. by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Imagine a section of tube going splitting away from the main network. It has an airlock shortly after the split, then gently curves up a tunnel through a mountain, and exits at a rather steep angle upwards. Then there's a quick-acting airlock at the opening.

    A special train is loaded - a rocket adapted to travel through these tubes. It speeds up to the regular Mach 1 in the "civilian" section of the tunnel, then goes down the branch and gains another 2-3 Mach. The airlock at the end opens right before the rocket reaches it, then the hyperloop propulsion module drops on a parachute while the rocket ignites its engines. We've just shaved off first 1.5km/s out of the required 9 or so needed to reach orbit - and with the tyranny of rocket equation, that's quite a bit of savings!

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    1. Re:I wonder if it can aid in space launches. by frnic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thew airlock would need to be long enough so that the pressure could be normalized before the outer door is opened, while the rocket is traveling at Mach 3. Probably in the neighborhood of a mile or two if you pressurized the airlock in one second.

      Constant/repetitive cycling of the pressure would certainly be very stressful to the structure.

    2. Re:I wonder if it can aid in space launches. by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      You plan to have a capsule emerge from a near vacuum at several times the speed of sound straight into atmospheric pressures? That's going to be like hitting a brick wall. "Opening an airlock" will send in a shockwave down the tube to meet the capsule. And then to boot, its lift surfaces, designed for providing lift in a near-vacuum, are suddenly going to be facing huge amounts of air.

      It's actually better to have hypersonic (relative to atmospheric air) projectiles moving through vacuums or near vacuums literally break through whatever "airlock" is sealing off the end (this is done in several types of hypersonic guns) - it's better to hit a literal (as thin as possible) wall than to hit the shock of air flooding into a near vacuum.

      There is no such thing as a "hyperloop propulsion module". Hyperloop capsules are not self-propelled.

      Note that you can't reach "mach anything" greater than 1 in such a tube relative to the internal gases. But you can increase the speed of sound several times over by using sparse hydrogen and/or very hot gases in the tube instead of sparse atmospheric air.

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  6. Literally by bravecanadian · · Score: 4, Funny

    a pipe dream..

  7. Re:.. pressurized to minimize the G forces effects by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The author doesn't know what G-forces are, that's all. They were trying to say that the person isn't exposed to a vacuum.

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