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Why the Raspberry Pi Zero Isn't a Practical Tool For Teaching Students (hackaday.com)
An anonymous reader writes: This article criticizes the Raspberry PI Foundation's new computer the Zero. It points out that the Foundation says the purpose of the new Pi is to reach students but with all the needed equipment and experience it is ill suited for students. From the Hackaday story: "For development you need to set up the Zero with a power supply, mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter, HDMI cable, the USB OTG cable, USB hub, a keyboard, and possibly a mouse. After some hours of work you’re ready to try the software in your device. The cables are all disconnected and the board connected to the device. Tests are run. You pull the Zero out and plug everything back together for further software work. That’s going to get old really fast so you get a second Zero so one can stay in the device. Now all you need to do is swap the SD card. If you’re going to do that, you don’t need a second Zero since you can use a Pi 2 and get the advantages of its higher speed in development. Alternatively, you can use the USB OTG with a WiFi dongle, copy files to the Zero’s SD, and restart or reboot the device. Over WiFi you can also use SSH or a remote console to monitor the device’s activities. How long did it take you to figure out all the cable connections in the second paragraph above? Do you think a student without a hacker friend will understand that? Remember, the goal is to reach students who don’t know computers."
I was thinking that the power supply, mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter, HDMI cable, the USB OTG cable, USB hub, keyboard, and mouse are going to cost more than the $5 Raspberry PI Zero computer you are hooking it to.
You do understand the section is a direct quote from TFA (the quotation marks are a dead giveaway, as is the part which says "From the Hackaday story") and that in the TFA there are paragraphs, right?
I don't normally defend the editors around here, but posting a submission written by some anonymous guy and quoting directly from the article ... your kvetching about the use of the word paragraph is kind of meaningless here.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
tl:dr - "thinkin's too hard"
Stop pretending everything is about "reaching students" or "education" or "democratization" or "encouraging people to get into STEM".
We are SURROUNDED BY AN OCEAN of electronics, computers have been in the home for decades, everyone has a phone these days.
Just say you have a hobby. Jesus fuck already.
How long did it take you to figure out all the cable connections in the second paragraph above?
There was only one paragraph.
Slashdot's formatting protocol strips out the paragraph breaks in article submissions.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
I've never understood the hype of the Raspberry Pi because the Pi is only a computer, not a full computer system. After you buy all the other components you need and piece them all together, you've spent way over $25! If you want a cheap, easy to learn computer system, make it a ZX80-type system with everything included but a monitor, then provide a TV connection. It would suck on an old low-definition TV, but on a typical TV these days it could look great.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
The value of a $5 computer is embedded project development. Now a class in tinkering can have dozens of ongoing unfinished multi day experiments and in debugged projects ongoing. No need to tear apart a rig for another class to use a more expensive and bulky raspberry pi. Your smart doorbell or pet door cat recognition system can stay wired up unfinished for weeks. You don't need high value projects to justify using the board. It's small so dozens can fit in a box. A school can afford to let students take home their projects.
One thing that bugs me about the pi is the lack of analog IO. Why does this seem to be consistently omitted. It limits the use as a sensor.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
This $5 board seems to be something for current Pi users who want to have "throwaway" boards or only require the GPIO for their project.
The main selling point of these boards is the price. At this price point it becomes more viable as a core component for standalone products.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
The editorial makes it sound like there is false advertising saying the RPZ is only $5. All of the models already require:
HDMI Cable
Keyboard
Mouse (if you're in the GUI)
WiFi adapter OR LAN Cable
Power Supply
USB Hub for A/A+/Zero if you need more than one peripheral or interface
Audio adapter if you want audio on non-Zero models.
The only additional equipment required for the Zero is a USB OTG adapter, versus the A+. You'll also need to solder on a header if you're using GPIO, but I doubt most students are going to do that. Audio can be soldered in as well, but anyone can tell you the onboard Audio is crap, you're better off with HDMI or a separate adapter.
Really, this was a misguided editorial. There is hardly anything different with how they're pricing and marketing the Zero versus their other models.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
your kvetching about the use of the word paragraph is kind of meaningless here.
Two things.
... oh, what's the word ... starts with "e" ... eat? No, edit! Yeah, that thing that editors do! He could have chosen to edit the summary before pasting it. I know that is a foreign concept for slashdot employees, who are too busy looking for future jobs to do the jobs they currently have.
First, he didn't need to paste that sentence, it had no value at all. Samzenpus could have failed a little less by doing a little
Second, as others have pointed out, if he posted multiple paragraphs the breaks would have been lost by the craptacular code that runs this site. This is a problem that has existed here for over a decade now...
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
everyone has a phone these days.
A user-programmable one? Flip phones aren't user-programmable, and iPhones aren't very much so either. Even a brand-new iPad Pro can't run Xcode.
It's about preserving the economies of scale of programming as a hobby. As mobile devices continue to encroach on the PC's turf for more and more applications, students are more likely to end up with access only to locked-down devices, such as game consoles, iPhones, and iPads. A cheap computer such as the Raspberry Pi is commonly touted as a workaround in comments like this and this.
Thatâ(TM)s going to get old really fast so you get a second Zero so one can stay in the device.
The good old days of floppy disks. Disk 1 contains the OS. Disk 2 contains the application. Disk 3 contains the user data. Switching disks get old really fast so you buy another floppy drive. If you have money to burn, get one of those 5.25" 20MB RLL drives.
Sounds like a load of twaddle written by someone that doesn't know the first thing they're writing about.
For development you need to set up the Zero with a power supply, mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter, HDMI cable, the USB OTG cable, USB hub, a keyboard, and possibly a mouse. After some hours of work you’re ready to try the software in your device. The cables are all disconnected and the board connected to the device. Tests are run.
If this is the best argument the "author" can come up with to make the Zero look bad, then surely the same also applies to all previous Raspberry Pis ?
And what "device" is he imagining students building to plug this into? Take one look at the Pi Foundations website, you can see exactly the type of students (and projects) they're aiming at , blinking LEDs and reading simple sensors.
This diatribe at best sounds like some closed minded twat posting a lengthy brainfart "This device isn't useful for me, therefore it isn't useful for anyone".
At worst, I wonder how much the $9 CHIP people paid for it ?
LUDDITE Linux can't play Halo!
Nor can Windows 10 play Gran Turismo 7. Only Orbis OS on PlayStation 4 can, and Orbis OS is based on FreeBSD.
Cry me a damn river, Rud. If you don't want a pi zero, don't buy one. I'm betting most people already have all the extra crap laying around they'd need. I know I do.
What niche does it serve? People who want a $5 pi and have the stuff necessary.
And guess what, the $35 pi won't work without stuff like a hdmi cable, power supply, and sd card.
And corrupted SD cards being the Achilles heel for a device that's about software development? Maybe a software developer could write a shutdown script? Perhaps you could add a battery and sensor to the gpio and detect power loss for a clean shutdown? It's a DEVELOPMENT product.
GOOD GRIEF.
Reading it. Yep, thinking of all the junk we had to hook up for the 80s micros that I cut my teeth on. Sounding familiar so far. Let's see, let's install the sideways RAM, refresh the EPROM, hook up to one of the myriad different I/O ports, learn how to open channels to devices on serial ports over BASIC...
Not suitable for learning? Sounds better for learning.
From the RPi foundation's mission statement:
"But we felt that we could try to do something about the situation where computers had become so expensive and arcane that programming experimentation on them had to be forbidden by parents; and to find a platform that, like those old home computers, could boot into a programming environment. "
The point of the thing is to be a cheap platform for learning programming and principles of Computer Science. They go on to say that the multimedia capabilities were added to make it interesting to kids that weren't interested in a purely programming oriented device. I have to think the GPIO capability is basically for the same reason, although they don't mention it explicitly. I believe the charter was expanded at some point to include third-world students.
*ALL* the RPis require a power supply, SD card, cables, mouse, keyboard, etc. The only thing the Zero really lacks compared to (some of) the other versions is Ethernet and multiple USB ports. AND ITS $5.
The fact that the Pis have become attractive to hackers doesn't make your needs paramount. If you're using them for embedded system development and it's such a pain in the ass to move cables around, you have enough money- if you don't already have most of the crap in your closet- to buy two complete setups. (I do, with 2-3 each of the various versions of Pi). It's not that expensive.
RPis absolutely fulfill their intended purpose, even if the single core models are a little pokey. While pushing things beyond their envelope is admirable and What We Do, you can't really complain if things get a little sketchy outside of expected operational modes.
I'll never forget the class where the teacher handed out a PIC to every student, told them to buy a breadboard, some wires, resistors capacitors, a crystal and a power supply.
I learnt that even though the development boards we'd been using previously cost hundreds of dollars and were far more powerful than we needed them to be, there were still ways you could build your own micro-controller system on the cheap.
For development you need to set up the Zero with a power supply, mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter, HDMI cable, the USB OTG cable, USB hub, a keyboard, and possibly a mouse.
Yes? And? Did you think anyone was going to buy a Raspberry Pi Zero thinking they could plug their kettle lead and PS2 keyboard into it?
But let's go through the list anyway:
a power supply
I've got dozens of the bloody things. Who hasn't these days?
mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter, HDMI cable
Or just a mini-HDMI to HDMI cable.
USB hub, a keyboard, and possibly a mouse.
Well, if it's only possibly a mouse, then you might not need the USB hub at all, eh?
And you can get micro-USB-to-USB-A hubs.
Alternatively, you can use the USB OTG with a WiFi dongle, copy files to the Zero’s SD, and restart or reboot the device. Over WiFi you can also use SSH or a remote console to monitor the device’s activities.
Well that sounds very easy. Why didn't you just say that in the first place?
How long did it take you to figure out all the cable connections in the second paragraph above?
Uh, about 0.68 seconds. Why? Was it supposed to be complicated?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Jeezis F hell, who are you people who write up this shit? I think if plugging in USB/HDMI cables and writing a completely pre-figured, tested OS distro to an SD card is a difficult line of steps, then find a new F hobby and get off the rest of our lawns. What the Raspberry Pi Foundation has dropped in your lap is about THE SIMPLEST FORM OF ABSTRACTED HIGH LEVEL EMBEDDED DEVELOPMENT YOU WILL EVER GET TO WORK WITH. Period.
I'd honestly hate to see the thought of you doing FPGA programming over a JTAG interface. Heck, I bet an Arduino anything is probably too much for you.
You damn millennial babies make me want to gouge my eyes out sometimes. Go turn your Playstation/XBox back on.
can you buy the C.H.I.P. right now ??
I wouldn't call it useless - most people who aspire to learn computer programming at least have a TV (aka HDMI input monitor), if you're willing to scrounge a little, most people will give away old keyboards and mice.
I do think the network connection is essential for a proper learning device and am surprised that the zero lacks a proper one. Sure, you can connect a $10 USB hub and $15 WiPi to your $5 Pi Zero (lest we forget, with a $10 miniSD card in it) and then you just need to either transport this pile of hackery to an internet cafe or pay $50 per month for internet connectivity for your "$5" computer...
What the Pi is is expendable - you're not going to "mess up" mom or dad's pc by messing around on your Pi. If the Pi Zero continues at $5 a pop, you can play around with various configurations and keep them all available in parallel. You can also dabble with a soldering iron and not sweat it - back in 1984 when I took a soldering iron to my Atari 800 (which cost approximately 400 hours of washing dishes to acquire ~= one year at my part time job), lots of people thought I had huge brass ones. Today, a Pi costs approximately 20 minutes of minimum wage labor in many cities, hardware hacking is no longer something to worry about - if you don't like the way the solder flowed on one board, you can just get another and try again - show off the one that came out the best and keep the others to recycle into new hacking projects.
He says the Raspberry PI isn't suitable for education because it requires effort to configure and students would lose interest and he doesn't like the Raspberry Pi Foundation ..
The first computer my dad got was a 286 which didn't work but we got it upgraded to a 386! It didn't come with a hard drive so guess what? I learned really quick about memory and how to load floppies and run c prompt commands to play my games. Most of the time after that if a new game came out you had to buy new hardware. I still remember fretting and trying to figure out how to get a TSR driver out of the memory so my game could fit in it. When I learned about microprocessors in college, I was the last class to wirewrap an 8088 together. I wasn't that good at it and some of the connections broke, so some times when I added chips I ended up rewiring hundreds of connections. My point is 1) If you only have to connect some cables, life isn't that bad. 2) Sometimes waiting is good, You have a lot of thinking time when you have to wait. 3) Even if a project is difficult, as long as its do-able I think it helps a lot. There are plenty of real world projects that take a tremendous amount of time, effort and patience before you have the payoff and learning those lessons as a kid will only help prepare you for the future.