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Top Democratic Senator Will Seek Legislation To "Pierce" Through Encryption (dailydot.com)

Posted by samzenpus on from the won't-somebody-please-think-of-the-children? dept.

Patrick O'Neill writes: Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) will seek legislation requiring the ability to "pierce" through encryption to allow American law enforcement to read protected communications with a court order. She told the Senate Judiciary committee on Wednesday that she would seek a bill that would give police armed with a warrant based on probable cause the ability to read encrypted data. "I have concern about a PlayStation that my grandchildren might use," she said, "and a predator getting on the other end, and talking to them, and it's all encrypted. I think there really is reason to have the ability, with a court order, to be able to get into that."

39 of 556 comments (clear)

  1. zOMG by Progman3K · · Score: 5, Funny

    THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
  2. Okay... by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps the good Senator should reflect upon what King Canute actually intended to say when he made his demonstration about his inability to stop the tide.

    Mathematical algorithms, like so many parts of our physical universe, don't give a flying fuck about Congress. It's like trying to pass legislation to make Pi equal to 3.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Okay... by edtice1559 · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, the OP isn't saying that at all. Public key encryption is computationally expensive so SSL implementation use asymmetric encryption in order to securely establish a session key. After that, faster, symmetric encryption is used. Unless you've been living under a rock, it has been discovered recently that the algorithms used to generate those symmetric keys were not well implemented and, therefore, the keys could be guessed. (Those also rely on a prime number which was cut and pasted which is what the OP is referring to here). It doesn't matter how secure the key exchange is if the key itself can be guessed! https://www.digicert.com/ssl-c...

    2. Re:Okay... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well there are forms of encryption that cannot be broken in this universe, and others that are probable unbreakable in any universe for even messages shorter than this sentence so that is good enough for me. There is the venerable one time pad (OTP) which can be shown to be unbreakable as at best all you could get were all possible messages of that length. The really neat thing about OTPs is that they are so simple you can teach them to a child and they can understand how they work and can do them with nothing more than paper and pencil. Also if one were to try and brute force keys on symmetric key encryption you would run out of energy in the universe at around 270 bits using conventional computers, or 540 bits using quantum computers, that is assuming you have an ideal computer. Even then at 540 bits all you have done is cycled the counter and haven't done any useful decryption. Unfortunately asymmetric key encryption schemes based on prime factorization, elliptical curves, or discrete logarithms are broken using quantum computers but are still pretty strong on conventional hardware. The good news is that there are some asymmetric key algorithms that appear to be unbreakable even on quantum computers.

      So to sum up I'm not really worried about things that will take longer than the heat death of the universe, and if the US government has access to substantially more energy than is available in this universe then we have bigger problems. The first that comes to mind is waste heat even with an ideal computer.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    3. Re:Okay... by tsotha · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, this is the problem. Lots of people are willing to beat their chests and say "fuck you" to the government now, but if, say, Congress passes a law making the use of unapproved encryption punishable by twenty years in the clink, 99.9% of these same people are going to knuckle under without a peep. We need to stop this kind of crap before it becomes law, and not depend on (other) people willing to take big risks.

    4. Re:Okay... by tricorn · · Score: 4, Informative

      The reference to re-using primes is about Diffie-Hellman key agreement protocol, which is susceptible to breaking discrete logarithms for a given prime. This is currently feasible with 1024-bit primes, and it is true that a significant number of web sites share the same prime modulus, which makes the expense required to break that prime worth it.

      This is a different problem from factoring the modulus used in an RSA key, which is what you're talking about.

      Breaking modern encryption algorithms without the key is infeasible, with or without quantum computers. The attacks are all going to be on the key agreement (often called key exchange) algorithms. RSA and DH are both vulnerable to quantum techniques, but there are other algorithms that appear to be safe.

  3. Will somebody think of the children! by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A.K.A. "will somebody please add backdoors that will eventually get abused by the government and then used by thieves and hackers to do even worst shit."

    1. Re:Will somebody think of the children! by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because government people live in fantasy world?

    2. Re:Will somebody think of the children! by FictionPimp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They will put you in jail for distribution of non-licensed encryption technology until you add that backdoor.

  4. So WHY does she want to destroy American IT by Bruce66423 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because it will rapidly become de rigeur for companies that are serious to use encryption that can't be broken on that basis. US companies can be part of that - or watch as their meal ticket evaporates...

  5. All I have to say is by istartedi · · Score: 4, Informative

    2345 A3DF 5782

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:All I have to say is by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

      2345 A3DF 5782

      "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  6. Or you know... by i.r.id10t · · Score: 5, Informative

    "I have concern about a PlayStation that my grandchildren might use," she said, "and a predator getting on the other end, and talking to them, and it's all encrypted. I think there really is reason to have the ability, with a court order, to be able to get into that."

    You could be involved with your kids and *you* be in charge of who they are communicating with via your playstation

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    1. Re:Or you know... by Tokolosh · · Score: 5, Funny

      We urgently need the technology to hear the voices in the senator's head.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    2. Re:Or you know... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "I have concern about a PlayStation that my grandchildren might use," she said, "and a predator getting on the other end, and talking to them, and it's all encrypted. I think there really is reason to have the ability, with a court order, to be able to get into that."

      You could be involved with your kids and *you* be in charge of who they are communicating with via your playstation

      Not only that, but kids have ALWAYS had clandestine communications. When Senator Feinstein was a teenager, I'd bet a lot money that she went for a walk alone with her friends sometimes. You go to the park, you walk in the woods or the meadow (in more rural areas), or whatever. Those communications may not have been formally "encrypted," but they were the private communications of the kids nonetheless. Back then, if you proposed having someone walk around with a microphone or tail your kid to monitor all communications, just in case something bad might happen -- well, people would think you were insane.

      And, you know what? Child abduction rates and violent crimes against kids were likely greater back then. At least for the past 40 years or so since child crime statistics have been accurately kept, the trend has basically been down, down, down. And the vast majority of such crimes are perpetrated by family members and close family friends, not random strangers -- met on the internet or elsewhere.

      Yes, it is true that your kids or grandkids may have greater contact with strangers through the internet and electronic communications than in previous generations. And that's why monitoring what they do IN PERSON is important. If they're in your house, watch what your grandkids are doing. Ask who they're talking to on the Playstation if it seems weird. Be involved.

      This nonsense about justifying encryption backdoors is coming from a combination of completely out-of-whack fears with little basis in reality. Child crime is down, but our fears of it are higher than ever (particularly when it comes to strangers, who are the least likely to harm your kids). Terrorist acts are few and far between (despite recent activity), yet we're more worried about them rather than actual dangers that are hundreds or even thousands of times more likely to kill us (driving, obesity and other "bad" health habits, etc.).

      People have always had fears driven by sensationalism -- see Renaissance paintings of Hellfire and read old-fashioned "fire and brimstone" sermons, for example. These modern fears are almost as loopy.

    3. Re:Or you know... by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When Senator Feinstein was a teenager, I'd bet a lot money that she went for a walk alone with her friends sometimes. You go to the park, you walk in the woods or the meadow (in more rural areas), or whatever.

      Not any more. Now, the cops can be called if some IDIOT sees your kids playing by themselves. Now you drive your kids everywhere to meet other kids in controlled environments.

      And that is considered NORMAL BEHAVIOUR.

      See also Feinstein's defense of government spying on citizens. But her rage when one department spies on another department.

    4. Re:Or you know... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not likely if they're teenagers.

      True, but the age is rising all the time. Did you know that it's now grounds for arrest if you leave an 11-year-old alone in a car while you go into a store?

      Apparently an 11-year-old (who requested to stay in the car, as I often did at that age too when my mom went shopping) might be in danger of suffocation or overheating or whatever. Note in the article: Police said the car interior temp had risen to 85 degrees (!!) before they arrived, apparently just in the nick of time. And apparently the police must have determined that the 11-year-old had no other possible course of action (with that temperature rising to... moderately warm... levels), like rolling down the window, opening the door, or... heavens -- going into the store and joining her mother!

      In a few years, this will be moved up to teenagers. Particularly if there's some sort of high-profile abduction or something. It doesn't matter how rare it is.

      And if you think this arrest is an isolated case, you'd be wrong. Look around a bit and you'll see plenty of cases of parents being arrested in recent years for letting preteens (9-, 10-, 11-year-olds) walk alone to/from a local neighborhood park or playing there alone. Heck, parents have even been arrested when an 11-year-old boy was alone playing in HIS OWN YARD for a while.

      (By the way, of course leaving young kids in a locked car is a horrible thing, and many do die each year. But presumably an 11-year-old has a few more options than being stuck in a car seat until they die of heat stroke.)

      Just in the past couple years, the age for arresting parents for "endangering" them by leaving them alone for a few minutes has risen from somewhere around 7 or 8 up to at least 11. Teens aren't that far off.

  7. Democrats are authoritarians by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some republicans are too, but I wonder if there is an area of life that politicians, especially Democrats - don't want to control?

    1. Re:Democrats are authoritarians by Vermonter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The thing with the Democrat party is that they feel they can solve (or at least greatly improve) all of our problems if they just pass enough legislation. This is about as stupid as a libertarian who says that getting rid of all regulation will solve all of our problems. The truth is the best solution is somewhere in the middle, but most people are too lazy to try to find it. And those that try are considered the enemy by the two parties because they are neither left enough nor right enough.

  8. Nanny state alert! by Darth+Twon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I have concern about a PlayStation that my grandchildren might use," she said, "and a predator getting on the other end, and talking to them, and it's all encrypted. I think there really is reason to have the ability, with a court order, to be able to get into that."

    If you are so worried about a predator talking to your grandchildren through the Playstation network, why are they using it unsupervised?

    Take care of your own problems, don't make the government do it for you.

    --
    Take this sig and smoke it.
  9. Speaks with forked tongue by charles05663 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She is all for spying...except if it is on her...

    1. Re:Speaks with forked tongue by i.r.id10t · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Same with her stance on gun control. While one of the biggest proponents, she has (or had... she may have given it up in shame when this was revealed) a CCW permit in California, which is near impossible for an average person to obtain

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:Speaks with forked tongue by Zak3056 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hypocrisy is nothing new with her--Feinstein ALWAYS carves out exceptions for herself. Despite being one of the most anti-gun politicians you'll find in the US, she carries (or at least used to carry) a firearm for self defense.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
  10. She is merely following precendent by l2718 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The Indiana Legistlature has already tried to legislate on mathematics.

  11. Lawmakers don't understand technology by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The bad guys are just going to keep using existing software that doesn't have these backdoors (esp open source software that can be vetted). In other words, this legislation will accomplish absolutely nothing but making mainstream communication tools less secure.

  12. Responsbile parenting by portwojc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    That's funny did Dianne Feinstein just imply that she can't trust her own children to raise their children properly?

  13. Here are your problems: by waspleg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Dianne Goldman Berman Feinstein, born Dianne Emiel Goldman[1] (/ËfaÉnstaÉn/; born June 22, 1933), is the senior United States Senator from California. A member of the Democratic Party, she has served in the Senate since 1992.

    Served on the Senate since 1992.

    82 years old with no fucking clue what she's talking about.

  14. Think of the children cuts both ways by Plazmid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have a concern about the IM apps my grandchildren might use and a predator getting in the middle and spoofing messages from their parents. A predator could pierce through encryption and send messages like "mommy won't be able to pick you up from school, but uncle bob will, so do whatever he says."

    1. Re:Think of the children cuts both ways by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a concern that my (future) grandchildren might have to grow up in a goddamn totalitarian dictatorship because of anti-American sociopaths like Feinstein. In fact, I'm way more worried about that than I am about Internet predators!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  15. Ugh - What did law enforcement do before?? by EStrat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From TFA:

    Encryption played a significant role in the killing of two people during a shooting in Garland, Texas, earlier this year, Comey said. One of the shooters, Comey said, exchanged 109 encrypted messages with an "overseas terrorist."

    "We have no idea what was said because those messages were encrypted," he explained. "To this day, I cannot tell you what he said with that terrorist, 109 times the morning of that attack. That is a big problem."

    What did LE do before the internet?? There are all kinds of things that are/were said and done in this world, Mr. FBI, that you did not, will not, and often should not know. Why is that difficult for you to understand? Guy eats breakfast in a diner every morning; two weeks later he kills people. You don't know what was said in that diner, either. Should all diners be required to record all conversations that take place in their establishment, and forward them to the FBI?

    Wait, don't answer that, you probably think they should.

  16. Re:She's 82 years old by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Informative

    Still nothing like a "series of tubes" though.

    You're talking about a powerful senator who sits on several defense and intelligence related committees who - on seeing some Code Pink protesters outside her house trying to fly a pink plastic mall kiosk toy helicopter with a 10-inch rotor (and tethered to some string!) later told reporters that she'd had people spying through her windows with a drone, and that all of them should be illegal.

    "Series of tubes" is downright informative by comparison to her grasp on technology and her urge to run people's lives.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  17. Give the cops other superpowers too. by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Funny

    Why doesn't Feinstein also add to her bill a clause giving the cops the power to fly and invulnerability? That is just as possible as legislating that cops will have the ability to break encryption.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  18. and frankly my dear fellow... by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    she deserved no less. she's an embarrassment to the state of California and the United States. (No, I did not vote for her or her "friend" Boxer.)

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:and frankly my dear fellow... by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      She's been pretty frequently castigated around here too. A by-no-means-exhaustive list of previous Slashdot articles on Feinstein doing or proposing stupid things: videogame control, persecuting Snowden, trying to kill net neutrality, defending NSA surveillance, etc.

      On a side note, her husband, a hedge-fund manager who somehow got himself appointed to the University of California board of regents, isn't too great either.

      --
      10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
  19. Re:She's 82 years old by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Informative

    she doesnt mean well,. that woman has NEVER meant well

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  20. Her own example shows how pointless this bill is by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This bill would require a court order before the encryption can be "pierced".

    Well, if you have a court order, you don't need to pierce the encryption - if the suspect fails to give you access to the messages in question, you can lock him up for failure to comply with a court order! And you can keep him there indefinitely until he complies! THE GRANDKIDS ARE SAFE!!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  21. Says you by s.petry · · Score: 5, Interesting

    82 years old with no fucking clue what she's talking about.

    I don't buy the ignorance gag for a minute. Politicians can hear both sides of every argument, and generally do. They are all well educated, and have well educated staff around them all the time. When it's convenient for them to look dumb, they play their role and look dumb. And the asinine measure that people pushed back against becomes an incremental step toward their agenda, and in extreme cases Black Projects that the citizens don't know about for decades.

    For nearly half a century I have seen people believe the idiot gag and remain amazed at how far down the shitter we have gone in so little time. Meanwhile, a few people said what I just did.. and they have predicted correctly.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  22. Re:She's 82 years old by Theaetetus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and her granddaughter is 26, which raises the question of why she's monitoring her Playstation usage.

  23. Re:So... by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Funny

    You know it's bad when you have a suggestion for deletion of a freedom and it gets condemned by Dick Cheney!