FOIA'd Documents Give Tour of Minuteman Missile National Historic Site (muckrock.com)

v3rgEz writes: In the 1990s, during our nuclear disarmament initiative, the Congress preserved two intercontinental ballistic missile silos as historic sites. The Minuteman Missile National Historic Site is one of them, and MuckRock used FOIA to take a tour of what's publicly on display, including a Domino's Themed Blast Door and probing questions guides are told to ask visitors, including, 'Could you turn they key?'

Comments

Queue debate/trolling

[saboosh]

Hang on, before you start the 10% debating and and 90% trolling about whether you would kill millions to save hundreds of millions let me get my popcorn first

Re: Queue debate/trolling

[saboosh]

Crap, forgot to set the over under on the first personal insult... Let's say 3.5 comments.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

Cue the people who can't tell cue from queue.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Press2ToContinue]

you could queue them instead

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Noah Haders]

where are we, Britain? i hear even the football hooligans queue up before flipping cars and setting them on fire.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Noah Haders]

Hang on, before you start the 10% debating and and 90% trolling about whether you would kill millions to save hundreds of millions let me get my popcorn first

how could you save hundreds of millions? any nuclear salvo would be met by a return salvo. you could kill hundreds of millions and have your hundreds of millions die anyway. winning?

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Zontar The Mindless]

At best, that's a loaded question.

So, thanks but No, I won't be playing.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Waffle Iron]

The argument that was made was that you "save" people by threatening to turn the key, not by actually turning it.

If the order ever came down to actually launch the missiles, it would be too late to save anyone. You'd simply be killing millions of people. You'd be joining the ranks of the worst despots in human history, except that you would be killing them directly without the complicity of middlemen.

And no, I would never sign up for that job. That's because no matter how much you argue that MAD ought to prevent a nuclear war, sometimes shit happens.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because no matter how much you argue that MAD ought to prevent a nuclear war, sometimes shit happens.

And yet zero nuclear wars since a second nuclear power sprung into being.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[amalcolm]

At least we have REAL football

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[amalcolm]

Hiroshima/Nagasaki anyone ... ? Is your memory THAT BAD?

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

I might be tempted to do it just on the off chance saboosh was in the blas... oh hey! How long have you been standing there?

Re: Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

Which was when there was one nuclear power...

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[SuricouRaven]

And zero wars between countries that have nuclear weapons. No-one dares risk escalation. The Cold War is called such precisely because there was no actual direct fighting involved - just lots of being prepared to fight, and a few proxy wars.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[SuricouRaven]

I would imagine that the higher-ups take the possibility into account, and run extensive screening to make sure any operators are well-trained enough to turn the key. They may even be able to run drill tests where the operators are not aware if the missiles are actually armed or not. Operators might be asked to fire on a regular basis, never knowing if the launch code they were given is genuine, or just some random numbers that the computer will reject.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

Hiroshima/Nagasaki anyone ... ? Is your memory THAT BAD?

From the moment of the Trinity Test until the Soviets had a successful test at Semipalatinsk in 1949, the United States had a monopoly on nuclear weapons. Both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings occurred in 1945, during the monopoly period when the United States was the world's only nuclear power.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[KGIII]

I'd turn the key if I took the job and an order came down to do so. I don't take jobs that I am unwilling to carry out. I did serve in the military but I'd absolutely not have taken that job (they don't let Marines play with that sort of stuff, as a general rule and for good reason). However, if I took the job then I'd do my duty which was to follow that order. I said I'd follow that order, I'll follow that order - assuming it's lawful. I could not turn that key, I would not take that job.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from the ones between India and Pakistan?

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[DigiShaman]

You'd simply be killing millions of people. You'd be joining the ranks of the worst despots in human history, except that you would be killing them directly without the complicity of middlemen.

I'll play devils advocate: Think...1,000 years into the future. The progeny of mankind might thank you for not only stopping the initial wave of darkness, but setting the precedent that not only is MAD just a theory, but proven to take place!!!

OTOH, with all the low hanging fruit of easily accessible resources now depleted, once thermonuclear exchange commences, I doubt humanity will ever have the resources int he aftermath to reboot back to current tech.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[jeffb (2.718)]

OTOH, with all the low hanging fruit of easily accessible resources now depleted, once thermonuclear exchange commences, I doubt humanity will ever have the resources int he aftermath to reboot back to current tech.

Some resources would have been "depleted", but others would have been "concentrated into convenient, usable form in industrial ruins".

Once you grant the initial massive die-off, the survivors might be able to bootstrap via an economy based mostly on scavenging. It would still be hard and horrible, but not necessarily hopeless.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Pascoea]

Some resources would have been "depleted", but others would have been "concentrated into convenient, usable form in industrial ruins". Once you grant the initial massive die-off, the survivors might be able to bootstrap via an economy based mostly on scavenging. It would still be hard and horrible, but not necessarily hopeless.

Didn't they make a video game about that at some point? That sounds familiar.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Nidi62]

Hiroshima/Nagasaki anyone ... ? Is your memory THAT BAD?

You mean the 2 events that killed a couple hundred thousand Japanese but prevented a US invasion that would have killed millions of Japanese? The invasion that was expected to cause the US roughly 500,000 casualties (including over 100,000 dead), in the 1st 90 days? I remember that. I also remember the thousands of Japanese civilians that killed themselves (whether willfully or under compulsion from Japanese soldiers) on Okinawa and Saipan, and that by 1945 the Japanese were training high school aged boys to pilot suicide boats intended to ram US warships (according to Wikipedia around 9,000 were stationed for Home Island defense), and that Japanese civilians, mostly women and children, were being trained to defend beaches and repel US landing forces with Spears. I also remember that the US anticipated so many casualties that the military is still awarding Purple Hearts that were made in preparation for the invasion.

There are literally millions of people-American, Japanese, Russian, British, Australian, etc-that are alive today because those bombs were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Part of the reason why nuclear weapons haven't been used since is that people realize that, considering how bad the first bombs were, newer and more powerful weapons would be even more devastating.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Nidi62]

(they don't let Marines play with that sort of stuff, as a general rule and for good reason).

Knowing what I know about Marines (and from knowing several Marines), if they let Marines play with nukes eventually one would set it off just to see the pretty explosion.

Stereotypes aside, pretty much every Marine I've ever met have been incredibly nice people and also rather intelligent. But they are all also a bit off. I've never been entirely sure if that last one is a requirement for recruiting or a byproduct of the training.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[KGIII]

Funny you say that. I just stopped in at an old haunt and now the missus is driving us as we're out of DC traffic and back on 95 and headed due south for the duration. I check Maine's weather (I've been gone since September) and I'm quite pleased. My dog will be flying down tomorrow.

That said, I stopped in at Quantico and visited a few old friends who are still, for some reason, slugging it out though they could have retired already.

Now, you raise an interesting thought and not one I've not had before. I'd say it's partially due to self-selection, training, and peer-pressure. We're, generally, the most generous, friendly, and intelligent people on the planet (I might be biased) but we do have our moments. Have you ever, perchance, had the opportunity to drink with Marines - say, right after boot and in a group of them? We're still nice - we're just rowdy.

At any rate, we'd have touched off a nuke just to see what happened. There's no doubt about it. It probably wouldn't take very long before one of us figured out how to detonate it. We are, after all, intelligent people. The funny part is people believe I'm a mathematician (I am even a Ph.D holding mathematician) yet have difficulty understanding that I paid for some of it with the GI Bill by serving in the Marines.

So, I punch them in the throat and stomp on their sternum... (No, not really. I'm rather harmless. I'm quite the doddering old man these days though I did finally shave off my long hair - easier to care for on my journey.)

Ah, tech is grand. I'm hurtling down the highway at ungodly speeds (she's a horrible driver) and am using my phone as a wireless router and don't seem to have any issues. We, Marines, are generally well received no matter where we go. When we stomp onto foreign shores, our brass is bright, our boots polished, and our manners are impeccable. We do what we came to do and ask for nothing but a small plot of land with which to bury our dead. We will move a mountain with nothing but the spoon from our mess kit should we be so ordered. Or, if no one's looking, we'll steal the equipment from the squids and use that to move the mountain.

We have a proud tradition, a heritage, and a code of honor that we enforce among ourselves. I generally dislike the idea that "once a Marine, always a Marine" and "there's no such thing as a former Marine." But they're both true. You are torn down, brainwashed, and built into a Marine - each a rifleman, from cook to accountant, and each having earned the right to the name.

I don't really have a complete answer and I've given it much thought. Make of it what you will. I guess, there have been times and places where I've been told that I'm cocky and I never really understood that view. I am not cocky, I am certain. That's what makes me a Marine. (I just had some of this conversation with the missus as we were going to and leaving base.)

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Coren22]

Is it played on foot? Does it have a ball?

You should be glad that every game played with a ball while on foot (rather than mounted) isn't called football. I would say that American football is much more of a real man's sport than European football though, so it is debatable which one is the real football.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[ColdWetDog]

I don't know what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

- A. Einstein

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Coren22]

Or any war against Israel.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[aslagle]

This is *never* done. Operators are well aware that every drill is a drill. The only times keys are turned are in the missile procedures trainer or in carefully planned follow-on test launches from Vandenburg AFB, or simulated electronic launches.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, real men with massive health problems, and wear body armour and can't run for more than 10 seconds at a time, and need constant breaks.

Armored Wankball is more like it.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Nidi62]

In high school I had two teachers who were Marines. One was the electronics teacher who fought in Khe Sanh and had basically written the curriculum for electronics courses for the whole school system. The other was the defensive coordinator and D-line coach for my football team and also happened to teach my sophomore level Honors British Literature class (not many people would be able to picture a Marine quoting from memory the introduction to Canterbury Tales in Old English). Also had a high school friend who went into the Marines and I thought was a Bradley gunner but I guess it would have been an LAV. It kind of surprised me he went into the military as he had a little more of a liberal bent. In college one of our starting linebackers for a few years (and I think was also the 2nd oldest person on the team, he went to college after his enlistment) was a hand to hand combat instructor for the Marines and literally the nicest guy I have ever known. As for you having a Ph.D paid partially by GI Bill, I had a guy in my graduate program getting his master who got all of his undergrad and graduate school paid for by the bill (can't remember if he was Army or Marines though). Also took Arabic one semester with 2 guys who both were Recon Marines who served in Iraq.

As for cocky, well, it's not being cocky if you can back it up. But I've also never seen anyone worship a date (as in calendar day/month) like Marines worship the Corps birthday. But I do know that history is a big part of the (and don't take this the wrong way, which I don't think you will because you did say brainwashing)

indoctrination in training. And as a history nerd there's not much more of an interesting read than the battle history or war memoir of the Marines (I really like Leckie's writing of the Pacific theater).

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Toad-san]

I would have absolutely, positively have signed up for that job .. if it weren't perhaps the most boring job in the entire world.

Could I have turned the key .. knowing it was already too late, millions were already going to die and I'd just add (uselessly, I must agree) to the butcher's bill?

Sure. You betcha. If nothing else than to go down on record, "You Communist sons of b*tches, we TOLD you we'd do this. But noooo ..."

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[fropenn]

The kind of person the world needs in that position is one who will absolutely swear he / she will turn the key and will convince the enemy that the key will be turned if it needs to be turned. But at the same time, when it actually came time to do it, that person, for the sake of the world, should decline to turn that key. The critical part of the job, then, is convincing everyone else that you will turn the key even if you won't actually do it.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[SuricouRaven]

I was only speculating - I said 'might' because that is how I'd consider resolving the issue of testing how the human element of the launch system would perform.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Chelloveck]

Humans can be deceitful and self-doubting and are definitely the weakest link in the launch system. Thus we must eliminate the human element. I propose that effective immediately we put the War Operation Plan Response computer in charge of igniting the missiles when it comes time to do so.

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[Anonymous Coward]

er the one you use your feet on the ball?

rather than nervous peoples Rugby?

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[cold fjord]

The relevant war-fighting strategies are decapitation and counter-force. They would be used in a first strike in an attempt to win the war quickly.

A decapitation strike aims to destroy or disrupt the national leadership and military command so that they are unable to command and control their nuclear forces in particular, and the armed forces in general. It might begin with a high altitude large nuclear explosion to generate a large electro-magnetic pulse (EMP) to disrupt communications prior to main attack on the political leadership, military high command, and the command and control infrastructure of the nuclear forces. The short warning time to impact of submarine launched ballistic missiles makes they highly useful for this task. Sitting on the coast, Washington DC is particularly vulnerable. Moscow? Not so much.

A counter-force strike aims to destroy enemy nuclear weapons before they can be launched. This requires many nuclear warheads, and the MIRV (Multiple Independent Reentry Vehicles) warhead is how they are delivered. The SS-18 Satan, for example, could either carry a single 25 Megaton warhead or many smaller ones (at least 10, possibly 20+). That mean you could potentially take out 10-20 targeted enemy nuclear missiles for each missile launch. This is a highly destabilizing capability.

If you are able to successfully execute a first strike using these strategies then the enemy is effectively leaderless at the critical moment, and largely weaponless afterwards. Since nuclear capable forces are often in relatively remote areas this may mean relatively little loss of life and opens the possibility of nuclear blackmail.

During the Cold War there was concern that the Soviet Union might be able to execute this strategy. It might look like this at the strategic level.

Cold War contingency plan crafted by the Soviet Union

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[KGIII]

My father was one of the ones who stomped ashore at Inchon and then was at Chosin. He's a Frozen Chosin or, alternatively, one of The Chosin Few. We are, almost to a man, all going to celebrate the USMC's birthday. "Back in 1775, my Marine Corps came alive." Alternatively, "November 11, in 75, my Marine Corps came alive in Tun's Tavern, PA."

Quantico has a Tun's Tavern themed restaurant/bar. The original is no longer there in PA. I think it burned but I'd not swear to it. My memory is a bit fuzzy.

I think, and don't quote me on this, that it is probably the American who would not expect a Marine to be able to quote literature. We've got a *very* good reputation across the globe. We're expected to be bright, strong, polite, determined, and successful. The barrier to entry isn't all that hard but the barrier to actually be called a Marine is quite a bit higher. There were a few washouts, more than any other force that I'm aware of, during boot.

Some folks can not be Marines. They just can't do it. You do end up with something that's a bit cookie-cutter in a way but that wears off a bit - after they've finished boot and/or gotten out. I did my four years and got out. I went to school and wanted to go further. So, I reenlisted and was able to get some schooling done in there the second time as well as being able to tap the GI Bill for a second round. Depending on your age, there have been some changes to the GI Bill over time. I attended MIT so it was expensive and I had a family at the time.

But, to the brainwashing thing... You know, I can't take it wrong. It's required. Seriously, I don't think you can be a Marine without it. They take a human and turn it into a Marine. They can't do it with every human, some of them are just broken. It's hard to describe.

That said, if you get the time and want to try a quasi-non-fiction book then read Leon Uris' book Battle Cry some time. I imagine you can find it cheap online or, if you're creative, probably free in PDF, epub, mobi, or whatever formats. Somebody might have shared it by now. It's an excellent book written by a Marine who then went on to work in Hollywood. I'd offer to loan, or give, you a copy but I am nowhere near my actual home. (This isn't my home, I do have a house here.)

I don't know how much is in you before you're a Marine or how much they have to mold you into a Marine. I imagine it varies for everyone. I was already fairly familiar with the program (I'd an older sibling, father, uncles, grandfather, etc who'd all been in the Marines. I lived on/near base for most of my childhood until I was sent off to prep school.)

Re:Queue debate/trolling

[SuricouRaven]

How can you be sure? If they ever do run 'psychological tests' of that nature, that's one thing those responsible for them would want to keep absolutely secret - so much that FOIA isn't going to find out about them. It seems to me this is the only way you can be absolutely sure that no operators will have a sudden onset of conscience when asked to push the button that kills millions.

May as well have asked for toilet paper.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this what we're wasting FOIA requests on? And no, I couldn't have turned the key. Someone has to carry on the human race, and it certainly won't be the side that didn't fire first.

Re:May as well have asked for toilet paper.

[rworne]

Even if they turned the key, you can still carry on the human race. All you need is a telepathic dog and you're all set.

Re:May as well have asked for toilet paper.

[drinkypoo]

Even if they turned the key, you can still carry on the human race. All you need is a telepathic dog and you're all set.

You also need a supply of big fruity looking robots in overalls.

No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[SuperKendall]

The summary is really poor, ANYONE can go on the tour without invoking the FOIA - I did so a few years ago, and saw all the same things.

If you read the article, it's just about how they used the FOIA to get the script for the tour, which while interesting is not exactly a Snowden level revelation.

By the way, for whoever wrote the original article do you really not know why they would worry about oil from hands? Over time touches can easily corrode metal and paint, and at this point there is very little budget to keep up repairs to the site so they want to minimize how much they have to do touchups. Yes the facility is designed to withstand a nuclear blast, but the grand canyon was full of many hard rocks before thousands of years of slow erosion created a mighty chasm...

Re:No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[SuricouRaven]

The canyon took about six million years to form. More than a few thousand.

Re:No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[Anonymous Coward]

The author of the blog post studied English, not Engineering. Their job is to be outraged, not informed.

Re:No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[daedalus2097]

Indeed, and I'm pretty sure if nuclear war broke out that the operators of the facility wouldn't be too worried about some switches looking worn once they still worked - there would be more pressing matters to worry about. But in the interest of preservation, every effort should be made to ensure the site is preserved in its original state.

Re:No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[LVSlushdat]

Just wondering *why* they wasted an FOIA request on something that *isn't* classified (anymore).. Is the National Park Service hiding stuff like this, as though it *was* classified???

Re:No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[Anonymous Coward]

Because saying "DOCUMENTS OBTAINED BY FOIA SHOW THAT..." is more sensationalist than "publically available information widely distributed by the US government shows that..."

Re:No they did not use the FOIA to take a tour

[Anonymous Coward]

Six million is certainly included in the phrase "thousands of years" :)

But the extra precision is certainly helpful.

'Could you turn they key?' Verbatim?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad grammar and all? 'Could you turn they key?'

Re:'Could you turn they key?' Verbatim?

[Anonymous Coward]

If it was verbatim, it was an older version of the story because its correct in TFA. I've been harking on about this for at least a couple years now but the editorial staff (if you can even call them that) at slashdot appear to consist entirely of middle-school students. They have absolutely no care for things like fact-checking, spelling/grammar checking, or a thing called journalism. This site has turned into nothing but clickbait article headlines with incorrect or copy+pasted summaries that nobody put any effort into. Its sad watching this once-great website turn so terrible. I guess money was all it took for them to stop caring. I only wonder how much further they can sink.

Re: 'Could you turn they key?' Verbatim?

[Anonymous Coward]

AFAICT, /. editors just click an "ok" button next to any article in the firehouse they care to publish to the front page. Occasionally, they add a funny "from the foo dept" caption, but honestly it's rarely funny. Once in a blue moon, they add a sentence to the end of the description and it goes to the front page.

They could all be replaced by the following automated algorithm:

If(story.votes > POST_THRESHOLD
        or story.poster == BennetHasleton
        or story.poster == HughPickensDotCom
        or story.poster == StartsWithABang
        Switch(random(3))
                Case 0: story.tagline='Protect ya neck'
                Case 1: story.tagline=stupidTag()
                Case 2: story.tagline=notFunnyTag()

        If(isBlueMoon(today))
                story.abstract .= mildlyRelatedAnecdote()

        promoteToFrontPage(story)

Where is Geohot when we need him to replace the drivers at /. ?

Good, that computer you're using

[Anonymous Coward]

comes from the Minuteman control computer.

Editors...

[Alwin Henseler]

Try pushing they key, samzenpus. The "Backspace" key, that is ("Del" may also work).

Okay, I know Slashdot editing isn't known for its quality work. But come on... not even 70 words, a one-minute reading out loud of the summary makes a spelling error like that stand out like a sore thumb. Exactly what job does /. pay their editors for, again?

Re:Editors...

[Anonymous Coward]

Slashdot editors are just glorified story choosers. They look for the most sensationalist submissions and post them straight to the front page without so much as even reading the article they point to. They copy the submitted summaries word for word without doing any spell/grammar/fact checking of any kind. They don't even check for broken links in the stories they publish. In short, they let the submitters do their jobs for them. Slashdot has no "editors" in the true sense of the word. They have unpaid submitters out there (people like us) who do all the work. We submit (sometimes poorly written) summaries that are then glanced at by "editors" before being shoved onto the front page. I feel like I'm just repeating myself now so I'll end it there. This website has always been slow on stories but it's never been this terrible. Unfortunately I have a feeling it has a lot lower to go before it finally gets put out of its misery.

Er...what's the story?

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

Crappy blog site takes a tour of a historic site? Is this an update on looking at the neighbor's vacation slides for 2015 or something?

Re:Er...what's the story?

[zenlessyank]

We have a duty to inspire fear from every angle. Dead cop here. Dead black kid there. Dead folks at church. Gun this. Gun that. Fat warhead here. Mushroom cloud pictures there. Fuckers listening to my phone calls. Fuckers taking my pictures. ...FUCK YEA I COULD PUSH THE BUTTON!!!! /s

Re:Er...what's the story?

[thinkwaitfast]

I was thinking exactly the same thing :(

Forget all the other stuff...

[Anonymous Coward]

can I buy?

'Could you turn they key?'

[SeaFox]

I don't think I could answer that question if the guides asked me -- cause I'd be stuck trying to figure out what they said.

Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[rickyslashdot]

ONE MAN COULD turn both keys in the activation sequence - which was NOT supposed to be do-able. During periodic testing of the control room -to- silo control links, a single man was left to activate the keys to test the wiring systems. The 2 consoles were 8 - 10 (or so) feet apart, and designed to REQUIRE 2 men to activate the firing sequence at the same time. Using 2 nails and a length of sting, the ingenious control house tech put one nail above the second key control, the second nail through the head of the key, tied the string to the second nail (key-head nail) and ran the string across the top nail and over to the second key station. BINGO! He could turn BOTH keys simultaneously - one by hand, the other by pulling on the string. When observed (caught) doing this testing, he was told to never discuss it, and the repercussions went like a silent tidal wave all the way to the top. I still don't know how this was resolved - but I imagine the key consoles were outfitted with additional locks that required pushing an actuator button or something, requiring 2 hands to activate.

Re:Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[Man On Pink Corner]

Apparently, according to the longer document (which is an interesting way to kill an hour or two), there was also some kind of conferencing system between the individual launch control centers in each flight. The keys had to be turned at the local consoles, but at least one other control center also had to "vote" to launch, presumably by turning their keys as well.

Later, this was augmented by the addition of a box with some thumbwheel switches that required the entry of a specific code from SAC as a condition for launch.

Re:Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[Anonymous Coward]

but I imagine the key consoles were outfitted with additional locks that required pushing an actuator button or something, requiring 2 hands to activate.

I have seen pictures of launch panels with clear plastic button covers that must first be unlocked, presumably by inserting and turning the key, so that the launch buttons can then be pushed simultaneously. That would seem to solve the piece of string and nails problem, just by adding a second mechanical hurdle to launching the missile.

Re:Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[Anonymous Coward]

old, popular, myth.
not actually doable.
father spent his first few years in the minuteman squadrons as one of the two guys in the room ready to unleash armageddon.

and testing does not actually require the simultaneous pressing of both buttons, if you know anything about electronic maintenance/troubleshooting.

Re:Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[BucketOfLard]

I worked on this weapon system on an Electro-Mechanical Team. I recall one Capsule Jockey (that was our nickname for the officers in the control facilities - a lot of them seemed to have physical education degrees) telling us how he was able to figure out how to turn both keys with the aid of a broom handle. He started to demonstrate, but we told him we didn't need to see him do it. So I can neither confirm nor deny that a single person could turn both keys.

Re:Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[tlhIngan]

Apparently, according to the longer document (which is an interesting way to kill an hour or two), there was also some kind of conferencing system between the individual launch control centers in each flight. The keys had to be turned at the local consoles, but at least one other control center also had to "vote" to launch, presumably by turning their keys as well.

Later, this was augmented by the addition of a box with some thumbwheel switches that required the entry of a specific code from SAC as a condition for launch.

Well, the other silo "voting" is to prevent silo madness. You have to remember that each silo is staffed by two people, who basically have to sit by the console for hours each day, every day, for months on end. It's total isolation - there's no TV or radio on purpose.

And unlike carefully screened astronauts, you start getting cabin fever, and hallucinations or other things start becoming real possibilities.

So while the two keys keep one person from going mad from launching, the two people could also get into sync and start believing in the same delusions. So you add in a second silo just in case.

The keywheels are a third protection - not from launch, but from the warhead going off. What happens is the key wheels form a password, and that password then decrypts the timing parameters required to detonate a nuclear warhead. Each warhead is manufactured differently and as a result, the timing of the operations needed to set it off differ. If the right key isn't present, then the timing parameters are decrypted wrong and the warhead doesn't go off.

Re:Here's a historical (unknown) point-of-interest

[dotancohen]

Each warhead is manufactured differently and as a result, the timing of the operations needed to set it off differ. If the right key isn't present, then the timing parameters are decrypted wrong and the warhead doesn't go off.

I'm not sure of the specifics of this case, but nuclear warheads in general will explode with inaccurately timed lens explosives. It will have much less mass go critical before the reactions start, and thus will go BOOM instead of BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM, but it will most likely attain some level of criticality and react.

Blast Door Art

[Anonymous Coward]

The Domino's themed blast door was a nice touch. Gallows humor must have been fairly popular among the missile crews. I remember once seeing a patch (the military loves patches btw) featuring a cartoon grim reaper seated at the launch control panel and wearing pink bunny slippers with the caption, "death wears bunny slippers". I suppose that standing watch all day and night in an underground bunker waiting for orders to destroy the world gives one a rather unique perspective on the insanity of mankind.

Re:Blast Door Art

[Anonymous Coward]

Found it: "Death wears bunny slippers". Patch is about half way down the article.

Re:Blast Door Art

[Anonymous Coward]

In the old days, the equipment racks in launch control centers used vacuum tubes. Nicely EMP-resistant, but generated a lot of heat. As a result, massive air conditioners pumped chilled air into the equipment racks to the equipment wouldn't fry itself to a crisp.

As a result, the air in the capsule would be fairly chilly. Crews, once any other personnel were out of the capsule, would doff their uniforms and don sweats or other warm apparel.

So yes, Death did wear bunny slippers, sometimes.

Re:Blast Door Art

[Anonymous Coward]

The Domino's themed blast door was a nice touch. Gallows humor must have been fairly popular among the missile crews. I remember once seeing a patch (the military loves patches btw) featuring a cartoon grim reaper seated at the launch control panel and wearing pink bunny slippers with the caption, "death wears bunny slippers". I suppose that standing watch all day and night in an underground bunker waiting for orders to destroy the world gives one a rather unique perspective on the insanity of mankind.

Your spot on. As a Navy Midshipman, I took a training cruise aboard a ballistic missile submarine. The missile techs were some of the nicest, grounded people I've met......but they had a Gallows humor streak a mile wide (One notable joke I heard: "Hey, you want urban renewal?.......Launch One.......). I think that any person who is in a professional field where death is either significant in the field or the end result of your actions (I.E. doctor and/or nuclear destruction) has to have a "gallows humor" gene to deal with it. Otherwise I think the person would really have some mental issues (as some of them do).

Gordon

That should read "Turn thy key"

[DrXym]

Glory be to the Bomb and the Holy fallout. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. World without end. Amen.

The sword of Damocles

[swb]

The sword of Damocles works because it hangs, not because it falls.

Titan Missile Museum

[blahblahblah105]

For a better tour, I recommend the Top-To-Bottom tour at the Titan Missile Museum near Tucson, AZ. 5 hours long and it takes you from launch control through all 8 levels of the silo itself. Nothing like standing at the bottom of the launch duct looking up at the missile.

Re:Titan Missile Museum

[Anonymous Coward]

I really liked the discussion there about the reactions from the Russian embassy whenever something sizable was moved above ground at the facility. The Russian embassy wasn't informed, they were watching from satellites.

Turn the key, solve "global warming"

[moeinvt]

One nuclear war would solve the global warming (*cough* "Climate Change") problem. It would put so much dust and debris into the atmosphere that the warming effect of the sun could be temporarily eliminated. A few hundred million dead humans and cows would also help.
Of course "global cooling" would then become the crisis like it was back in the 1970s.

Re:Turn the key, solve "global warming"

[Anonymous Coward]

Global cooling is a concern eventually, because northern hemisphere continental glaciation is due sometime on the scale of 10000 to 20000 years according to Milankovitch cyclicity and where we are in the current interglacial cycle. I think you're confusing legitimate historical musings about very-long-term climate change issues with more immediate concerns on century scale. It's a common point of confusion that people think this is some kind of change in thinking versus the realization that the time scale differs by orders of magnitude. Warming from greenhouse gas input is the immediate concern even if in 20000 years we might wish for it.

That's not a tour. THIS is a tour.

[Applehu Akbar]

http://www.nv.doe.gov/outreach...

The Nevada Test Site has to be on every true nerd's bucket list. See places like Frenchman's Flat, Yucca Mountain and Sedan Crater for yourself. See what railroad overpasses, houses, buildings, and a grid of Fifties cars, lined up as though at a drive-in (ask Gramps what one of those was) looks like when nuked. See an original Cold War test control room, with all the Doctor Strangelove gear.

Interesting article

[Anonymous Coward]

It is great that this site has been opened up to the public. It is tradgic that the Cold War happened. This will allow individuals to explore the history of the Cold War.

Turn They Key

[Anonymous Coward]

War... War never changes.

Re:Turn They Key

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have a Geiger counter?

You don't know who you are killing, or how many

[SuperKendall]

You'd simply be killing millions of people.

You do'n't know if your target is a city (in which case you might kill a million or more) or some hardened military target (in which case you may just be killing a handful of people caught in the open, or even no-one if it was some kind of un-manned communications relay station).

That's why turning the key is possible, because the reaspn you were turning it would have been very serious and vetted by a lot of people that thought the cost was worth it.

Re:You don't know who you are killing, or how many

[Waffle Iron]

Then I suggest that you start playing a game that you'd probably enjoy: Russian roulette.

Re:You don't know who you are killing, or how many

[SuperKendall]

That's a pretty stupid response, can you please say what you mean? It didn't make a lot of sense on its own. Obviously if you are being told to turn the key your country is in dire straights anyway so it's not like the trigger on your own forehead has not already been pulled.

Re:You don't know who you are killing, or how many

[Waffle Iron]

You were blithely dismissing concerns about the possibility of killing millions of people that you've never met because "I might not have any targets near civilian areas". Just like a revolver might not have any bullets in some of its chambers. No problem.

(Also setting aside the fact that the indirect side effects of a nuclear exchange would kill far more people than those affected by the direct blast or fallout.)

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion