Oracle Asked To Help Low-Income Residents Evicted For Its New Cloud Campus (cio.com)

itwbennett writes: Roughly 100 low-income families were evicted from an apartment complex on the land in Austin, Texas where Oracle plans to build a new 560,000 sq. foot cloud-computing campus. Some of the former tenants of Lakeview Apartments had leases through the end of the year, but were reportedly forced by owner Cypress Real Estate Advisors to move out early. Some have said their security deposits were not returned, and they have had no assistance as they've struggled to find comparably priced housing. Last week, some of those residents gathered near the site of their former home to protest and to appeal to Oracle for assistance.

Comments

Snoracle

[Anonymous Coward]

Oracle Cloud coming to your town!

Re:Snoracle

[binarylarry]

Who in their right fucking mind would want to put their business in Oracle's hands?

Remember when they totally botched the nation's new health care system?

Re:Snoracle

[Ol Olsoc]

Who in their right fucking mind would want to put their business in Oracle's hands?

Remember when they totally botched the nation's new health care system?

I remember when we went Oracle . A 6 month job that turned out to be a permanent, never ending curse.

Re:Snoracle

[Penguinisto]

Dude, Oracle botched the State of Oregon's healthcare website (Cover Oregon, and to the tune of $300m)... no idea if they did anything on the federal one.

Re: Snoracle

[Anonymous Coward]

And that is probably the reason Oracle is moving its Oregon employees to Austin!

Re:Snoracle

[unixisc]

Well, under Gov Grey(out) Davis, CA too had Oracle do it's government IT, and it turned out that thee were probes of impropriety into that.

The main story - Larry is one of them limo libs. It's funny how they act this way while maintaining that sanctimonious air w/ the rest of us peasants

Re:Snoracle

[magarity]

Uh, that story you linked to is about the devs who implemented poorly; any database would have crappy performance. As I recall it wasn't Oracle's consulting branch that set up healthcare.gov but some third party. In all fairness how do you blame Oracle?

Golden opportunity

[vikingpower]

for Oracle to polish their image which, currently, is pretty bad in the social-and-responsible-enterprise area. Whether they'll really do something - I doubt it.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. Don't pray to the government for help, forget about ever hiring a lawyer and filing a lawsuit. No Pray to Oracle.

Jesus H Christ how does this pass for news?

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

for Oracle to polish their image which, currently, is pretty bad in the social-and-responsible-enterprise area. Whether they'll really do something - I doubt it.

Oracle polishing their image is similar to polishing a turd. In the end, they're both turds.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Naw, profits before people, nature, animals and planets.

Helping others doesn't look good on ROI or RRR. Screw everyone and everything. It worked in the past and people still glorify it.
Last time corporate profits were at new ATHs and wages at new ATLs with such a big disparity was in 1929 and the 30's.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Gavagai80]

Perhaps Oracle will offer free America's Cup tickets to the low income former residents.

Re:Golden opportunity

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Larry Ellison owns a whole Hawaiian island, just for himself. Maybe he could house these poor folks there?

He could give them jobs, working in the sugar cane and pineapple fields.

A win-win solution for everyone, for sure.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Which part of low-income is confusing you?

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, I'm sure people living in a low income housing project have the funds and knowledge to find and hire a lawyer. Getting this in the news will only attract the lawyers that will take the case, make a million dollars for themselves and get not much more than an "I'm sorry" for the tenants illegally evicted from their apartments before the lease was up.

Kinda funny, I live in Austin and know the area. It would be prime lakefront property except that it's in one of the worst areas in town, the whole region is just bad. A lot of student housing in the area to, as I remember.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

for Oracle to polish their image which, currently, is pretty bad in the social-and-responsible-enterprise area. Whether they'll really do something - I doubt it.

Oracle: "Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Which part of low-income is confusing you?

What part of "the former owner fucked over the Tenants" is confusing to you?

Re:Golden opportunity

[Penguinisto]

Let's be honest here:

1) It's not Oracle's fault that the previous owner (e.g. landlord) was/is a dick. Yes, Oracle could do some feel-good PR with it, but it won't make a difference long-term, and the folks involved end up getting their pain prolonged in most cases.

2) How the fuck does this even make it to closing with tenants still on the books? Unless Oracle specifically agrees (agreed?) to take on the role of landlord, the place should have been emptied by the day the title transfer papers get signed.

3) Legally (barring some clause or two that nobody read in their leases), the property seller may be on the hook for paying up any leases that are still live when the property sold (unless, again, Oracle agreed to become a landlord at closing). But, I can only guess at that because I don't know the city/county/state laws that apply.

4) A question - is there any sort of state of federal grant money action or program occurring here? I'm assuming not, else the residents would have gotten at least a year or more of advanced warning, relocation assistance, rental vouchers to help them pay rent elsewhere, etc etc.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

1) It is Oracle's fault that they did business with a dick, and gave that dick incentive to behave dickishly. Oracle could have done their due diligence to have this done properly.

2) Another example of Oracle failing to do their due diligence. They should have known what they were getting. This isn't my aged mother leasing a condo, this is a major Fortune 500 company. They can do better.

3 and 4 are knowledge-based queries, that I can only say, I agree, it'd be nice to know. But then, the same would apply to Oracle.

Re:Golden opportunity

[unixisc]

Doesn't matter - not everyone who is fucked can afford a lawyer

Re:Golden opportunity

[unixisc]

Somehow, those bad areas seem to be attractive to business due to their low rent. I recall how Ikea made their big Bay Area warehouse in East Palo Alto, which at one time had a reputation of being the murder capital of ________ (don't remember whether it was US/CA/Bay Area...)

Wonder why people would go to shop at such localities? I guess if it's an Ikea, there's hardly any choice

Re:Golden opportunity

[hene]

Jesus H Christ how does this pass for news?

Are you kidding? These are exactly the kind of things that people need to hear.

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

2) & 3) --- Because Texas.

Re:Golden opportunity

[unixisc]

Or have them work on the yacht

Re:Golden opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

*pfft* Oracle HAS NO SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY! They pay whatever you charge them in taxes, that's it, they're done!

No surprise here

[Anonymous Coward]

ORACLE = One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison.

Re:No surprise here

[Anonymous Coward]

This.

Re:No surprise here

[Anonymous Coward]

*slow clap*

Re:No surprise here

[Anonymous Coward]

Achtung, Oracle shill detected.

Re:No surprise here

[Anonymous Coward]

I keep a record of my favorite quotes. This one is my top favorite from Slashdot; I repeat it all the time.

It had "raging" in place of "rich" back in June 2013, but the idea still holds. Oracle still keeps coming up with reminders of why it is the most evil software company.

Re:No surprise here

[unixisc]

Funny, since here on /., people usually award that title overwhelmingly to Microsoft, or in Snowden adorned posts, Google. Sometimes Apple. It would seem that Oracle does have competition

Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

... forced by owner Cypress Real Estate Advisors to move out early. Some have said their security deposits were not returned ...

Fuck the residents, corporations are people too; very, very, very rich people. Why aren't the ambulance chasers onto this?

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

They will be, but it's a non-story and non-case.

Got booted early? Try reading your lease.

Lost your security deposit? Try reading your lease.

Whining because muh poors? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.

Oracle has no duty to help these people. The property owner has no duty to help these people, or to continue offering them housing at low cost rates.

And as for the rest of you, you have no duty to continue working the same job, with no opportunity to advance or change jobs or just fuck off and play Fallout 4 all day every day.

Why? Because this isn't a Glorious Republic of the People, and you're allowed to dispense with your time in property in a manner in which you see fit.

Re:Fascism

[fche]

mod parent up, or a kitten gets it!

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

mod parent up, or a kitten gets it!

Goodbye parent's karma, I hate kittens

Re:Fascism

[malditaenvidia]

But Fallout 4 sucks. Why is life so terrible?

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, in many states the lessee has many rights, such as the right to continued used of the property throughout the duration of the lease, the lease holder can not step foot onto their property without proper prior notice, and many other bundled rights... which include, the quick return of security deposits held in a special interest bearing account, or a written and judge signed decree of why the money was not returned.

In this case, unless the residents agreed to something in return for the termination of their leases... such as a relocation amount, even a pittance of one, then they should have read the agreement better, they got all they are going to get.

Here is some Michigan precedence (some context IANAPL, that is a non-practicing lawyer, but went to law school, passed bar, patent bar, etc, but don't practice), when General Motors which had land near an airport, gave up said land for the expansion of the airport, the tenants of the land, and the owners were given money in return for their quick and timely removal from the land. The agreement for the lessees was 6500 dollars if they rented another property, and more if they bought another property. Granted, this was a move by General motors and the county, and the municipal government, and the owners of the airport. General motors owned the land, and rented houses on the land to their employees for ridiculous low rates... think 3 bedroom brick, ranch houses on 2 acre lots, for 250 dollars a month.

This was about 20 years ago, I know it firsthand, because my family worked for GM and at least 2 uncles, and my family were forced to move... we took the buy route, and even though we did not have much money, the relocation fund, and the first time buyers bonus, and other federal assistance, made moving into a newly built and financed house easier and cheaper than renting a new house or apartment. Big difference than living off of Uncle GM and their gracious cheap family housing, but the 12 grand, plus other assistance made the move easier.

Point is this, no one that leases property has the right to remove you from the property, you have secured property rights through the signing of a lease, it is in fact your leased property, within the limits of the lease. You have the right to quiet enjoyment, and the right to do whatever you want while you are there within the constraints of your agreement. As my law professor stated, property is a bundle of sticks, and a lease contains quite a few sticks (rights) to the property.

I would not be surprised if the property owner pulled a fast one, and got them to sign over, or paid them very little, and now they find themselves in a bind. I also presume that many of these people are not fully educated on the matter and the law, and that someone should have explained it to them better, as to what rights they do have, and do not have. And lastly, I presume, that some are old and infirm, and living on fixed incomes, and have no way to move easily, and may even have medical devices in place (oxygen generators, tub and shower handles, special phones or alert systems), which if this is the case, have an even harder time to move.

So, what we need, is an advocate for the lease holders, and Oracle could provide at a minimum that for goodwill and public perception, and may be able to help these people without handing out a single dime of their own money, just the cost of some local attorneys, who also probably want to do something to get their name out their in a positive way... it could be a win / win for everyone, if they start blaming the right people and accepting the responsibility of the right or wrong that has happened, that is a big if, but an easy fix.

I just believe a lot has been lost in translation, and a lot as been lost through the telling and retelling from many different points of view, and flavored by media bias (big company boot poor out of home), just tell oracle and the county, state, and local government to do their job and help the displaced understand what is available to them. Simple and easy.

Fascism, not, Socialism, not, Media piece during holidays that pulls the right heart strings, yes.

Re:Fascism

[Dragonslicer]

The property owner has no duty to help these people, or to continue offering them housing at low cost rates.

Maybe it's just because I live in a Glorious Republic of the People (i.e. a northeast state), but isn't an agreement to continue offering housing at a stated rate exactly what a signed lease is?

Re:Fascism

[Chris Johnson]

Why yes... yes it is.

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

this isn't a Glorious Republic of the People - it is Texas. The freedom to do exactly this is what makes Texas attractive to business. The sentiments expressed in the post above give them the moral justification for ignoring the effects.

Re:Fascism

[ranton]

isn't an agreement to continue offering housing at a stated rate exactly what a signed lease is?

It is quite common for a lease to include a clause detailing how many days notice the landlord must provide the tenant in the event of an eviction involving the sale of the home. 60-day notice is the most common, mostly because this time frame is mandated by the rent control ordinances of many states. Considering how business friendly Texas is, I assume landlords have no problems legally evicting tenants when the property is sold as long as sufficient notice is given.

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

Clearly you don't know anything about tenants rights. When you sell your property and there is a leasing agreement you are legally obligated to abide by the terms of that lease. That means Oracle is responsible now since they own the property.

Re:Fascism

[tlambert]

In Texas, this is the specific code which applies:

http://www.statutes.legis.stat...

However, you should note that a lot of those provisions sunset on 1 Jan 2016. They also have up to 30 days from the lease termination date to refund security deposits, if that's going to happen at all (i.e. there's no claim of damages which would result in a hold-back).

It's also the law that a sale of the property is a qualifying event for terminating the lease in 72 hours, if they chose to do that.

Whether Oracle is on the hook for the security deposit depends on who technically owns the property at the time the lease is terminated, but in general, I can see Oracle's lawyers missing that trick, and if they did, I can see Larry Ellison making the property management company's life truly miserable.

Re:Fascism

[nbauman]

isn't an agreement to continue offering housing at a stated rate exactly what a signed lease is?

It is quite common for a lease to include a clause detailing how many days notice the landlord must provide the tenant in the event of an eviction involving the sale of the home. 60-day notice is the most common, mostly because this time frame is mandated by the rent control ordinances of many states. Considering how business friendly Texas is, I assume landlords have no problems legally evicting tenants when the property is sold as long as sufficient notice is given.

A contract that any party can terminate at any time at his sole discretion is not a contract.

Contracts are regulated and limited by laws. In New York City, we have pretty strong laws to protect tenants. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07...

In most circumstances, a landlord must renew a New York City residential lease. If they want to end the lease, they have to buy the tenants out. What's a reasonable buyout? A housing lawyer told me: Enough for the tenant to be able to afford to move to a similar apartment elsewhere in the neighborhood. Buyouts of $100,000 or more are common.

In effect, under New York City housing law, a tenant doesn't just rent an apartment, he acquires a property interest in the apartment too. A tenant who lives in the middle of a proposed multi-million dollar development can make a killing just like a small building owner who lives in the middle of the development.

We used to have a pretty good public housing system in New York City. Middle-class people, teachers, firemen, cops, mailmen, waiters, salesmen, could all afford to live in public housing, and most of the public housing projects were pretty good.

Then the Republicans and neocon Democrats tried to destroy public housing, and they did a lot of damage. http://alexisandjesse.tumblr.c...

I always hoped that we could get rid of rent control. Let the government build and improve affordable public housing for me to live in, and let the landlords and real estate developers get rich in the free market if they've got the stuff. Go ahead and compete, and see who does a better job.

But instead we're left with rent control and all its irrationalities. So the relationship between landlords and tenants is a little more adversarial than it has to be.

But we've got the votes, and we've passed laws that give tenants strong protections. Tenants in Austin and other places would be wise to follow our example.

Re:Fascism

[ranton]

A contract that any party can terminate at any time at his sole discretion is not a contract.

Not necessarily. A contract I have with a retailer that allows me to return their product at any time at my sole discretion within 30 day is still a contract.
And in this case, the landlord cannot terminate the lease at any time. They have to provide notice, just like the landlord in this story did. The tenants were given months to find new rental units.

I obviously do not know the details here, and the landlord could certainly have broken the law. But nothing in the story gives any reason to believe laws have been broken here.

Re:Fascism

[Darinbob]

The property owner has a duty to honor the leases and return deposits.

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

In two words, Tort Reform.

Which is to say they grossly misrepresented cases like the McDonalds coffee and told us they were superfluous and would cost us in the end. Then suddenly politicians promising to limit how much you could sue corporations for was a GOOD thing.

Tort reform was from the 90s. Anyone 35 or under had no legal right to vote at the time, so easily half of this readership never had a chance, and now they never will.

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

You are not terminating the contract by returning the product within the terms of the contract.

Re:Fascism

[Sir Holo]

isn't an agreement to continue offering housing at a stated rate exactly what a signed lease is?

It is quite common for a lease to include a clause detailing how many days notice the landlord must provide the tenant in the event of an eviction involving the sale of the home. . .

A contract that any party can terminate at any time at his sole discretion is not a contract.

Precisely. A Contract is either a Contract –or it is not. No grey area there.

Re:Fascism

[Anonymous Coward]

The property owner has a duty to honor the leases and return deposits.

I don't know about Texas, but I was involved in the purchase of a property in California some years ago which had previously been a rental property. We were legally allowed to give the tenants a 60-day notice of eviction in spite of a lease which would have extended beyond that time. However, we did have to return the original security deposits in a timely manner or itemize any deductions we made from the deposit. We didn't want to take the time to itemize that and didn't want to piss off someone who at the time still had the keys, so we just gave them the full deposit amount even if we potentially could have justified keeping some of it. I don't believe the legality of that eviction was tied to the change of ownership, although perhaps I misunderstood our advisor and the purchase was why it was legal.

Good luck

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck with that, they're more likely to have Oracle sue them for defamation or for using the Oracle trademark without prior permission.

Help the poor and the dispossed by their betters?

[Anonymous Coward]

THAT'S SOCIALISM!!!

Oracle will not comment.

[Anonymous Coward]

What money does Oracle stand to make out of doing anything here? none.
Will it impress business clients or get them new deals by helping these people? nope

Oracle has no social conscience.

But then again, Oracle is a business, not a person, and a business can't have a social conscience any more than a rock can.

Re:Oracle will not comment.

[Chris Johnson]

Sure it can. A business is like a golem. It's animated by means of the laws written to establish what it is (notably laws of incorporation, otherwise there would be no business and the boss would be personally liable for everything)

So, write different runes in its head and it will do different things, unfailingly. If it acts like a raging asshole with the power of a million people, it's because you WANT it to act like a raging asshole for some reason, or because someone who wants that wrote the laws.

Personally, I'm cool with 'dissolve all the corporations and the rich CEOs can be personally liable for their misdeeds', but writing new laws to animate these golems is also a possible approach.

Re:Oracle will not comment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, the golem figured out that it could make the rune-writers make the runes say what it wanted them to say, and even get them to pretend the golem was a real boy, even a real boy with super powers, and could send them to the corn field if the golem became angry.

Re:Oracle will not comment.

[Jawnn]

What money does Oracle stand to make out of doing anything here? none. Will it impress business clients or get them new deals by helping these people? nope

Oracle has no social conscience.

But then again, Oracle is a business, not a person, and a business can't have a social conscience any more than a rock can.

Nor should it. Seriously. If the corporation doesn't do everything it can to increase value for it's shareholders it is arguably in breach of it's duty to said shareholders. That goal is the single definition of "do the right thing" to a corporation. If we have a different definition of "the right thing", and most of us do, then it is our responsibility to petition the government that makes the laws regulating corporations to regulate said corporations such that their behavior might be better aligned with our definition. Oh, and good luck with that.

Re:Oracle will not comment.

[Sir Holo]

See the US Supreme Court decision way back in the mid-1800's regarding a railroad company calling itself a 'person' under the law. A Corporation is a person, at least under the law.

This stupid error could have been fixed at any time in the intervening ~150 years by Congress passing a law stating otherwise. It hasn't.

The day that I see a law-breaking Corporation either jailed or put-to-death for their crimes, I might then consider viewing them as people. Until then, they are not—Corporations (profit or non-profit) are legal structures that represent and act for a particular group of people—Corporations are not people.

Re:Oracle will not comment.

[Sir Holo]

Boards of Directors can, indeed, be held personally liable for the acts of a Corporation that they oversee. The bar to personal prosecution is very high, though.

Re:Oracle will not comment.

[An dochasac]

See the US Supreme Court decision way back in the mid-1800's regarding a railroad company calling itself a 'person' under the law. A Corporation is a person, at least under the law.

This stupid error could have been fixed at any time in the intervening ~150 years by Congress passing a law stating otherwise. It hasn't.

The day that I see a law-breaking Corporation either jailed or put-to-death for their crimes, I might then consider viewing them as people. Until then, they are not—Corporations (profit or non-profit) are legal structures that represent and act for a particular group of people—Corporations are not people.

Also keep in mind that multinational corporations can behave irresponsibly across international borders damaging US reputation and security, destabilizing foreign economies and governments. But unlike refugees, asylum seekers and all other categories of non-fictional human immigrants, corporations have no visa or passport that might be revoked.

#require_corporate_passports

Oracle does not give a rats ass.

[Lumpy]

Honestly Oracle really does not care about them, nor the fact that the property management company is being scum.

All oracle cares about is next quarter profits. if people have to suffer for those profits, then so be it.

Re:Oracle does not give a rats ass.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oracle really should not care about them. If they do, they're just giving stronger incentive for shoddy business to the landlords.

If there are wrongful evictions going on, go after the landlords.

Re:Oracle does not give a rats ass.

[mysidia]

Honestly Oracle really does not care about them, nor the fact that the property management company is being scum.

Residents they are attempting to force out early before lease end should file a petition with the courts for an emergency injunction....

Re:Oracle does not give a rats ass.

[Anonymous Coward]

Residents they are attempting to force out

Learn to fucking read.

"Some of the former tenants of Lakeview Apartments had leases through the end of the year, but were reportedly forced by owner Cypress Real Estate"
1. Not Oracle.
2. Already forced out.
3. Leases were only through the end of the year. What fucking good is an Injunction going to do when they're already on the street, and would have had to vacate by tomorrow night at Midnight?

Re:Oracle does not give a rats ass.

[Sir Holo]

Honestly Oracle really does not care about them, nor the fact that the property management company is being scum.

All oracle cares about is next quarter profits. if people have to suffer for those profits, then so be it.

Not true.

ORACLE also cares about Larry Ellison keeping his fake Japanese-style palace in Malibu (Southern California), while still being able to commute to work in Northern California, in a giant, noisy, Corporate jet that flies out of my Municipal Airport every goddamned morning. Then back again in the evening. And often, for 'practice', the jets bank at super-low altitudes over the one Municipal Airport in the Nation with (1) the highest density of Jet traffic, (2) the highest density of residential population around any Municipal Airport in the US, and (3) the busiest Municipal Airport in the Nation.

And don't tell me that I knew what I was getting into when buying here. I moved away from the flight-path of my Municipal Airport, specifically to get out of the FAA-mandated flight-path. Now the jets have come to me. One crashed a decade or so ago about a block from my place. The pilots prefer to fly at low altitude to show the neighborhood residents "Who's Boss", in violation of FAA Rules, but the FAA is the poster-child for regulatory capture.

20,000% increase in business-jet traffic over the past 20 years. There is no body to report violations to, nor any body to actually enforce regulations.

I guess when Harrison Ford crashes one of his WW-II planes into my living room, his craft will no longer be under FAA control (being crashed and in my living room). Then the heavy lawsuits will really begin...

Move to a proper country

[YoungManKlaus]

where tenants actually have proper rights and legal representation.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry we're full. Back to your third world shit hole.

Signed,
1 or 2 Nordic countries.

Re:Move to a proper country

[sectokia]

It is truly bizarre to new that in USA, the capitalist centre of the world, so many people scream for special rights to *renters* as if they are owners.... Why does the government interfere with rent control? Every economist will tell you that it's just insane and less to these very situation. If the people need welfare, the government should supply public housing directly.

Re:Move to a proper country

[yacc143]

Well, Oracle is not to blame.

The landlord is to blame if they used illegal means to evict the renters.

If the eviction was legal, well, you do have a problem with the local laws then, wouldn't you say?

Re:Move to a proper country

[drinkypoo]

If the people need welfare, the government should supply public housing directly.

There are multiple empty houses for every man, woman, and child in America, thanks to the mortgage scam. And thanks to the bailout, the banks can afford to not sell those homes for whatever the market can bear, so they are sitting on them and refusing to sell them in order to keep real estate values high and maintain the value of their "investment" (really an elaborate theft from the taxpayer.) So in fact, the government has funded the deliberate ongoing maintenance of the homelessness of the population.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Or underwrite the provision of rental properties in some other way; I've seen tax breaks suggested. Though, as the rights of renters...it properly should stick to being a subset of the rights involved in contracts, giving specific rules on what can and cannot be done in a lease & what each party can and cannot do in the event of the other violating the contract. (Knowing your rights means more than anything else knowing what the procedure is and how, for example, your location defines 'habitable.' Personally, I think parts of this should start applying the moment you offer a property to be leased, with no tenant needed to start the ball rolling, unless you are open about it not being ready to move into--I'm okay if my potential landlord says that I'll have to wait to move in for the bathroom to be done getting remodeled, for example, because I got told as much. However, moving into my unit only to find I have no working toilet? Yeeeah, no.)

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Bollocks. Knowingly benefitting from an immoral act is immoral.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Richard_at_work]

Slashdot is becoming more like AboveTopSecret every day...

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh, kinda.

Oracle set forth the motions that ultimately resulted in those people being evicted. While Oracle certainly has plausible deniability, I'd think at some point in their negotiations they might have inquired about the people still there and when they would be leaving. A more cynical person might think Oracle put pressure to have the area vacated, knowing full well the law usually sides with those with the most money.

Is that all Oracle's fault? No. Is it their fault for taking advantage of the situation? Yes.

Re:Move to a proper country

[drinkypoo]

Slashdot is becoming more like AboveTopSecret every day...

It's not my fault that the degree to which the world is more complex than you imagined is now coming to light. If you take exception to some part of what I said, by all means, point it out.

Re:Move to a proper country

[will_die]

The tenants were notified in June that this was going to happen. They were later notified that no leases would be extended and if the leases expired in September they had to be out by then. People with monthly leases also had to be out by then.
This left some people who had leases until December and a few that just stuck around. The ones with the leases until December are in a court lawsuit currently over the level of inaction the management company provided in not fixes issues and with removal of services.
So what additional protection should they have? I live in Germany and three months is what I can expect for notification.

Re:Move to a proper country

[mysidia]

so many people scream for special rights to *renters* as if they are owners

There is no fundamental right to exclusive control of land, not even in a capitalist society. If the property owner decides to build housing, and rent out housing, then their customer's lives depend on this relationship, which is in danger of becoming tyrannical or unfairly exploitative, so the property owner automatically cedes certain rights, Even rights that might not be in their best financial interest to lose, and even rights they do not willingly give up.

Actually.... the deedholder or claimholder is just a renter too. The ultimate owner of land is the state government, and in most places, they even charge the current deedholder a rent called property tax to maintain any privileges, and their usage of the land has to be compliant with the law and in the interest of the public (E.g. You cannot just dump hazardous wastes on your land, however you like).

It makes perfect sense, that a government respecting the interest of the public would have reasonable regulation of the government deedholders' subleasing arrangements with members of the public, where people secure their housing / apartment living spaces, or even, where people secure housing for other vital purchases: such as the usage to host the main office of a small business.

Re:Move to a proper country

[SuricouRaven]

Shouldn't that hold only if the beneficiary is causing or allowing by inaction the immoral act?

If I learn that my employer is buying a few thousand pieces of expensive but useless junk off a a company that happens to also be owned by the CEO as part of a 'tax efficient' optimisation, does it add anything new to the wrongness for me to then appropriate some of the junk that is heading off for disposal and put it on eBay for myself? As a low-level employee, I wouldn't have any way to stop the immoral act: It's just a matter of if I choose to exploit the situation to my own advantage, and create no additional harm in doing so.

Re:Move to a proper country

[mysidia]

thanks to the bailout, the banks can afford to not sell those homes for whatever the market can bear, so they are sitting on them and refusing to sell them in order to keep real estate values high

If that's true, then the government should file charges against them for housing market manipulation, and forcibly liquidate the properties on their behalf.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Morality is bollocks.

Re:Move to a proper country

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The usual objective behind various rights and protections afforded to renters is addressing the fact that settling a contractual dispute while unexpectedly homeless is a...rather lopsided...process.

It's not news that contract law just doesn't work as smoothly when the parties involved are of vastly different power; and resolving matters through a civil proceeding can be problematic when there is particularly urgent time pressure. In situations involving people who rent their sole residence; both of these conditions tend to hold.

It's one thing to, say, go through a hassle with Dell because your computer was DOA. It's a bit more problematic to have a landlord stalling you while the heating system isn't working; or a sewage leak is making it impossible to use anything involving water(not my most entertaining college experience...)

Once you have basic logistics covered it becomes much easier to take up a property issue as just another civil dispute; but the thing about being a renter is that most of your disputes tend to start because certain basic logistics are suddenly not covered.

Re:Move to a proper country

[drinkypoo]

If that's true, then the government should file charges against them for housing market manipulation, and forcibly liquidate the properties on their behalf.

You missed the part where the government gave them the money that they're using to operate on since acquiring that real estate. The government is literally doing the exact opposite of what it should do, enabling this behavior instead of stopping it.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Oracle management is too busy picking which employees to lay off this quarter to keep the others living in fear to give a shit about a few poor people.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Richard_at_work]

Ahh more insults from you, this is becoming common.

Just because a bank is holding onto property does not mean its empty, and nor does it mean it would be affordable to rent for these people needing to find cheap accommodation. Unoccupied properties degrade quickly, so banks will gladly rent them out. The people in this story are renters, so the fact that banks wont sell is meaningless to this discussion.

Plus I really dont think there are 640million empty properties right now in the US ("multiple empty houses for every man, woman and child" is what you said, combined with the current estimated population of 322million). A quick googling shows a recent estimate is only 18.6million, and most of those need significant extra work as they are uninhabitable.

Add to that the fact that acting as a landlord for an extra 3.5million zero or low income people (the estimated number of homeless in the US) puts a huge strain on somebody - were you thinking of forcing the banks to bear this cost? Another thing to consider is that the banks *are* donating empty houses to cities for social housing, but most cities dont want them because it eliminates property taxes on those properties and adds them as a burden to the city.

You also realise that the banks are paying for the bailout, right? To date, the US Federal Reserve has actually made a profit of $63.2Billion on loans totalling $618Billion disbursed under the TARPS and Fannie and Freddie.

Of that $618Billion, the Federal Reserve has seen $681Billion flow back, and thats with about $230Billion in loans yet to be repaid. Puts your "elaborate theft from the taxpayer" comment in a new light, now doesnt it...

https://projects.propublica.or...

http://themindunleashed.org/20...

http://www.businessinsider.com...

Re:Move to a proper country

[DarkOx]

Right the rights of owners should usually prevail over renters, although some compromises do need to be made. If you have a year long lease I don't think your land lord should be able to tell you "be out by 6am tomorrow" without you having violated your agreement some way. So there probably has to be some regulator compromise. Which generally everywhere I have ever had reason to know anything about it here in the USA there has been. Usually you have at least 30 days.

On thing the government SHOULD NEVER DO is offer public housing. Public housing is strait up corporate welfare. Its asking you and I to cover the cost of housing a labor force for the 1%ers so they can turn around and pay them what would otherwise be below market rates.

No we need to make employers pay to create the labor pool they need. The answer really isn't minimum wages etc which are difficult to implement in a sufficiently local way to be economically efficient. Maybe a burger flipper should make $15 an hour in the trendiest part of LA but that is crazy in Stockton. The answer is nix the subsidized housing. That way if the employer class wants to be able to get a burger in their high price neighborhood they will have to offer the people who make them enough money to either live nearby or affordably commute there. The alternative is prices and property values in those places will fall because the affluent will actually leave because no services are available.

As you mention the bailouts are the other big problem. Had the banks been forced to liquidate assets to cover their obligations those houses would have hit the market. Real-estate values everywhere would be much much lower and the market would have found a buyer for all those properties. We would have a lot more people housed today if we had let the crisis run its course.

The wage gap problem exists because of the expanded social safety net not in spite of it. Its a combination "Great Society" and inflationary FED policy that has driven it.

Re:Move to a proper country

[drinkypoo]

Ahh more insults from you, this is becoming common.

Stop commonly saying things only worthy of an insulting reply.

Just because a bank is holding onto property does not mean its empty,

Red herring. In fact, these properties are empty, and the banks are holding on to them, not the other way around. This is well-known, and citations abound. If you were not being deliberately disingenuous I would suggest you learn to use google. Instead, I'll suggest you stop being disingenuous.

Plus I really dont think there are 640million empty properties right now in the US ("multiple empty houses for every man, woman and child" is what you said

Yes, that is wrong, because I misspoke. I apologize. The truth is that there are multiple empty houses for every homeless man, woman and child. The point of such a statement is to show that homelessness in America is a created problem.

Of that $618Billion, the Federal Reserve has seen $681Billion flow back, and thats with about $230Billion in loans yet to be repaid. Puts your "elaborate theft from the taxpayer" comment in a new light, now doesnt it...

No, no it does not. The theft was of property, and the means was writing mortgages illegally, and then being loaned money to cover the costs of the whole scam. They kept the property. They still own it. We still have a chronic homelessness problem in this country, which we could fix if we had the will. Instead, we had the will to give the money to the banks.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Well in your case above this eould be you STEALING. Regardless of what else hsppened you taking something that is not yours is simple THEFT. And nobody likes a thief.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

By controlling the rents, the government can provide supported housing from the housing markets without extravagant cost to the tax payers while not needing to buy of the land and property.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

There are many rational reasons why Oracle may want to interfere on the part of the tenants, or not..one doesnt need to appeal to some imaginary moral absolutes.

Constantly debating the moral/immoral implications of ~other~ peoples behavior is the purview of kids in bible class on Sundays and philosophy students - not intelligent human beings.

Re:Move to a proper country

[serviscope_minor]

The wage gap problem exists because of the expanded social safety net not in spite of it.

Do you have any evidence for this other than your neat just-so stories?

As evidence against, I give you history where lack of a social safety net led not to a capitalistic utopia but grinding poverty, and appalling conditions for workers as poverty meant they could not afford to risk a payment by seeking work elsewhere.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

"The wage gap problem exists because of the expanded social safety net not in spite of it. Its a combination "Great Society" and inflationary FED policy that has driven it."

That may be little short on right.

The wage gap exists because jobs are portable and it is cheaper to port them overseas.

The US market is going a great service bootstrapping the economy of other nations.
Not so much our own.
We of course get a lot of great stuff in return, but it causes a stratification in our wages.

Inflation from FED policy is a tax on savings which long term mostly affects the top of the strata.
Great Society is a wealth transfer program which also works towards de-stratification.
(Except perhaps where it interacts with human nature and removes the drive to excell.)

I'd like to think that the US is still the goto country for advancing yourself if you have the drive and ability to do so.
If not, you can be poor by US standards which is still pretty good by world standards, unless you go somewhere more socialist.
Making the US more socialist would likely move the goto country status somewhere else.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

What if they kicked them out, claimed damage and filth, took the security deposit and pocketed it, knowing the building would shortly be demolished anyway?

That is a scam worthy of jail.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

As usual, I'm sure there is more to the story. It is pretty hard to evict anyone these days. So unless they showed up on their doorstep with police and proper eviction notices how exactly did they 'force' them to leave? Turn the water / heat off? Give them financial intensives to leave and now they want more? If I had a lease, there is now way they would force me to leave early.

Re:Move to a proper country

[smooth wombat]

Public housing is strait up corporate welfare. Its asking you and I to cover the cost of housing a labor force for the 1%ers

So public housing is like Obamneycare which is corporate welfare since people are forced to hand over their money to a private company whether they want to or not. Got it.

Though I do agree with your assessment of forced liquidation. I said the same thing about J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs, et al. Instead of them being given $700 billion of taxpayer money to pay out their bonuses, they should have been left to fail, the pieces then picked up by the survivors, which is how a capitalist/free market society should operate.

Instead, the taxpayer has been subsidizing them while being told, "Fuck you" any time the mention of them saying "Thank You" for us protecting them from their own incompetence is brought up.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Hognoxious]

Go away, read this, and come back.

Preferably in that order.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Richard_at_work]

Uh, not selling property is not market manipulation - its the very right of ownership. Refusing to sell all your stock at once to keep prices high is not market manipulation and there is nothing illegal in it.

No matter what dear Drinkypoo says.

Re:Move to a proper country

[14erCleaner]

There are multiple empty houses for every man, woman, and child in America

No, there aren't. The house vacancy rate in the US is currently under 2 percent (and falling), which translates to about 1.4 million vacant homes. http://www.census.gov/housing/...

Re:Move to a proper country

[hey!]

"Blame" is not the same thing as legal culpability.

At least until someone figures out how to make being a dick illegal, acting like a dick won't be a crime.

Re:Move to a proper country

[operagost]

Clearly you're not an American, so let me explain to you how this works.

We're a federation here, so most of the laws that affect a citizen daily are made at the local and state level. I haven't lived in Texas, but I have lived in several states and one thing you can't do in any of them is unilaterally break a contract. There has to be something in it to allow a party to leave it. If there isn't a section of the lease that allows the landlord to terminate the lease in the event the property is sold, then the new owner has to honor it. Even if there is such a section, in every state I've lived in the tenant has at last 30 days to vacate, and probably more. Also, not returning the deposit is theft. Every state I've lived in requires that to be returned within 60 days, if not sooner, and if any part is held back because of unpaid rent or damage it has to be invoiced. Usually, the deposits need to be kept in escrow so they don't "disappear". In other words, these tenants should probably be working with the Texas housing authority and the previous owner at this stage, not harassing Oracle.

I know that believing the USA is some sort of dystopian hellhole makes you feel better about whatever cesspool you hail from, but it doesn't serve you to expose your willful ignorance.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, yea that's all nice but just because the property is technically not inhabited does not mean that a) nobody is living in there or b) that it's in a condition where it's legal to rent. It's not just a simple matter of signing a lease and letting someone move in.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Ichijo]

There's an easy fix for the problem of land banking: increase real estate taxes, especially on unimproved land. Then use that revenue to lower other taxes, perhaps taxes that are more regressive such as the sales tax. (Austin's is 8.25%--they truly despise the poor, and their sales tax shows it.)

Re:Move to a proper country

[DarkOx]

Evidence, no not really unfortunately like most economics questions we don't have a good control. So its a hypothesis we can test if we implement my policy suggestion but that is all.

I am not sure I agree with your evidence against. I can argue by some measures the wealth gap is larger than it has ever been. Its also true that poor (speaking about USA here) are largely better off than they have been in the past.

Social safety net programs evidently do not cure the wealth gap problem. They have existed for 50 years and the wealth gap has grown over the same period. We don't have enough evidence to prove they make it worse as I suspect. We don't have enough evidence to prove they really help the poor either, the generally improved working conditions might and quality of life might easily be functions of a society that is in aggregate wealthier and or the product of other regulations like health and worker safety standards that I would not consider 'social safety net' specifically.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

... appropriate some of the junk that is heading off for disposal ...

Well in your case above this eould be you STEALING. Regardless of what else hsppened you taking something that is not yours is simple THEFT. And nobody likes a thief.

No, it is not. The courts have maintained that taking something out of a dumpster is not theft.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL>..hilarious.

You're American, aren't you ?

The US is a "goto" country only if you're some poor peasant from from bombed out third world shithole, where being a peasant in a violence torn developing country shithole is a step up.

For the other 500 + million people living in developed countries, the USA is truly a step down.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet you do so on a daily basis your immoral scum.

*this post brought to you through the rare earth metal trade for which little people gave their lives so I could have my PC.

Re:Move to a proper country

[tepples]

It was an admitted typo: the user meant every homeless man, woman, and child. How does this sub-2 percent vacancy rate compare to the homelessness rate?

Re:Move to a proper country

[Osgeld]

dunno where you live, but out here you can buy a house for less than a mid level car

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a source for this. You have actual data of impending job cuts? And, frankly given the low employee quality as the results of their abuse of the H1-B program and top-heavy mgt, it might not be a bad thing.

Re:Move to a proper country

[14erCleaner]

There are about 5 million houses sold each year in the US, and the median time to sell a house is 98 days. Do the math - most of those "vacant" houses are just in transition.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Property tax isn't rent, its a means by which the local gov't raises money to provide local services such as schooling, road repair, policing and fire safety, etc. If a local community decided to fund those services via other means such as a sale tax or income tax, they could do that.

Additionally, in some communities property tax is a means by which social exclusivity is maintained (for example a rich neighborhood might wish to tolerate a level of property tax that they can afford but would be prohibitive to less affluent people).

" The ultimate owner of land is the state government" is not at all the case. If you fail to pay your property tax the state or locality will place a lien on your home to the value of the owed taxes plus interest and penalties. Depending on your local law this could eventually lead to your home being sold to pay the owed taxes, but generally this is a long process and there's a lot of opportunity for you to keep your home from being sold (and even after its sold quite often depending on local law you have some rights to buy it back within a certain timeframe). Usually things you can do like declaring personal bankruptcy, etc. can stretch out the process and lead to a negotiated settlement of taxes owed. So there's a big difference here. If you actually own the property (don't have a mortgage) you really own that land and rights to exploit it within the rules of the local zoning and ordinances, and any community based rules (like there's a rider on my land that says 'no chicken farms' which expires in 2024). Again those laws and agreements are put in place to maintain order and value for a neighborhood, and you know all the details (or should know it) before you buy the land. And if the locality wants to rezone you should attend the local hearing and discuss the impact of that on you.

Re:Move to a proper country

[ranton]

I am not sure I agree with your evidence against. I can argue by some measures the wealth gap is larger than it has ever been.

Over the past 30 years when the wealth gap has exploded, social safety net programs and union power was reduced, not strengthened. If you want to see what wealth inequality looks like under strong social programs, look at the 1960s. In 1963, the top 1% had 35x more wealth than the median family. This is what the social programs after the Great Depression gave us. This disparity grew to 40x by 1983, when our social safety nets started deteriorating. Fast forward to 2013, and the top 1% has 97x more wealth than the median family.

Its really even worse than this, because almost all of the wealth gap has been caused by the top 0.01%. If you look at wealth growth of the top .01%-1%, the growth is pretty flat. It is only the top 0.01%, or about 10,000 families, that are seeing all of this growth.

The great society programs enacted in '64-'65 allowed the US economy to keeping growing after the post-WW2 prosperity faded, and kept inequality from growing significantly for 20 years. Once Reagan started to lower taxes and defeat the unions (without enacting other worker protections) the rise in inequality was inevitable.

We have plenty of evidence that strong social programs help the poor. Just look at Scandinavian countries. All we have evidence of in the US is that social programs can be run poorly. That is a reason to improve and strengthen them, not scuttle them.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

When did "land banking" become a problem? Just because one person or group of people own an asset doesn't mean it should be given to someone else. Sheesh.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Ichijo]

The problem is when the tax on the property doesn't cover the property's burden on the city.

Re:Move to a proper country

[unixisc]

where tenants actually have proper rights and legal representation.

Why not have a J1 visa exchange program w/ Cuba? We'll send all our poor and jobless there, while the Cubans who prefer freedom to their current lot can move here instead.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

"You're American, aren't you ?"
      Guilty as charged.

Clearly, we see things differently. We have different starting definitions of a 'proper' country.
Except for the cultural hurdle barrier to entry, my second 'goto' country may be China.
With only 500M in developed countries, that did not make your list.

The EU did not make my list. Too many cultural and economic barriers. Seems like it would be comfortable but limiting and boring for someone coming in with ambition and skills. For someone lacking these or with a cultural tie it might be ideal. Again a different idea of proper. Although the months of vacation is interesting.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

dunno where you live, but out here you can buy a house for less than a mid level car

A mid-level what, Rolls Royce?

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

I think being English is immoral, so spin on the queen's index finger pommie.

Re:Move to a proper country

[tsqr]

There are multiple empty houses for every man, woman, and child in America, thanks to the mortgage scam.

I'd love to see a citation for that. The United States population on July 4, 2015 was 321,442,019. According to this source, 5 million homes had been repossessed as of April, 2015, with an additional 3 million forecast for the next three years or so.

That's a lot of repossessed homes, but 8 million is not a multiple of 321 million, unless by "multiple" you mean "0.025".

Re:Move to a proper country

[Krishnoid]

The ultimate owner of land is the state government, and in most places, they even charge the current deedholder a rent called property tax to maintain any privileges

Is this a 'rent'? It's definitely a fee/tax, but my understanding is that if you don't pay your property tax, all the state can do is attach a lien to your property. And while someone can evict you for not paying rent, I thought they couldn't evict you for unpaid property taxes. Maybe that's a state-to-state thing.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Drinkypoo didn't say it was illegal. The argument is that its a dick move since all the banks forced people out of their houses and instead of the market setting the price the banks are withholding them from the market to keep the pricing stable artificially. As a current home owner I am okay with this since that would mean my own home value would tank if the banks released them all at once. It is very frustrating from the perspective of someone trying to buy a half decent place though.

Re:Move to a proper country

[serviscope_minor]

I am not sure I agree with your evidence against. I can argue by some measures the wealth gap is larger than it has ever been.

Can you? By what measure would that be?

As best I can tell, Victorian England had a gini coefficient of around 0.6, compared to now (with a comparatively strong welfare state) of 0.34. It seems that the time at which the gini coefficient was lowest was a bit in the past when the welfare state was stronger than it is now.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Anonymous Coward]

Protip:

Those are only "houses" by the most lenient definition. Rundown shanty in a bad part of town would be a more apt description.

Otherwise show me a listing for a 40k house that would be safe to raise a child in. I don't even care about where, just that you are unlikely to have it collapse on you and it is not permeated with lead paint or drug residue.

Note: Must be in the US.

Re:Move to a proper country

[chihowa]

If you actually own the property (don't have a mortgage)...

It's funny that you don't consider property taxes as an indicator of the state owning your property but you do consider a mortgage as an indicator of a bank owning your property.

Even if you have a mortgage, you are still the actual owner of your property. The bank's only claim to your property is as collateral to secure the loan in the event of your failure to pay it back (plus any other contractually established claims such as your continued maintenance of the property to prevent the devaluation of the security).

Re:Move to a proper country

[Scarletdown]

There are a few homes for sale in the town I am in (Baker City, Oregon). 40K or thereabouts will get you something decent place to live. And there is really no bad part of town here. There were a couple nice houses half way down the block from mine that were for sale until recently. One was around $33K. The other was around $40K.

The key to finding deals here is to not go through any of the agencies, and look for private sales instead. Now, if you want some acres to go with a house, that is where it gets expensive, due to the prime farming and ranching land all around here.

Re:Move to a proper country

[david_thornley]

Most houses are not vacant while they're being sold. Typically, the seller still lives there. Leaving a house unoccupied for 98 days is quite risky. There's lots of stuff that can go wrong.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Sir Holo]

WTF?!?

It was ORACLE who chose to do business with a (nother) scumbag. . . perhaps as a condition of closing the sale, although that its only a guess.

Why should MY tax dollars go to support these people that were displaced through bad-faith business practices? That is like saying it is A-OK for big corps. to externalize their costs onto the taxpayers.

Make the guilty party pay. Let ORACLE get lots of bad PR, which they deserve, for this. The seller could have simply bought-out the leases of the renters (leases run with the land), but chose to be assholes, and make it way more expensive for everyone.

Re:Move to a proper country

[Sir Holo]

Just because a bank is holding onto property does not mean its empty, and nor does it mean it would be affordable to rent for these people needing to find cheap accommodation. Unoccupied properties degrade quickly, so banks will gladly rent them out.. . .

No. Banks are not landlords, nor do they want to be. They will let squatters reside in a place for over a year, collecting no rent from them, just to keep the place occupied.

Banks are (assumedly) good at being banks – not landlords.

Re:Move to a proper country

[mysidia]

all the state can do is attach a lien to your property.

No... Attaching a lien to the property is just Step 1. This is also the polite approach, they will use by default for a minor debt.

If you do something major to bother your state, such as tax fraud, they can cancel the deed entirely, and resell the property. This is commonly done if the property's owner was involved in other crimes as well.

Step 2. after attaching a lien is where the state forces a foreclosure within a few months and auctions off the property to satisfy the lien.

Also, some states will spare themselves of having to do the collections work involved in Step 2, by simply auctioning off the lien to private investors instead ---- then whoever buys the tax lien will foreclose on the preceding tenant, should the previous tenant fail to pay off the lien and allow their redemption opportunity time limit to expire.

Re:Move to a proper country

[YoungManKlaus]

Did I blame oracle? Nope. I blamed exactly those local laws.

Re:Move to a proper country

[drinkypoo]

Banks are not landlords, nor do they want to be. They will let squatters reside in a place for over a year, collecting no rent from them, just to keep the place occupied.

In fact, homeowners and renters alike have been evicted in record numbers due to the subprime mortgage crisis. This has led to an increase in both vandalism and arson, which has been broadly reported. It's clear that the banks know that they are participating in a scam; the price of housing has been artificially inflated because they are unwilling to sell for what people can afford, but the time that houses are lying vacant is leading to them being broken into and violently stripped for their fixtures, wiring, and anything else of value. And in fact, unoccupied homes "go bad"; without anyone keeping them up, driving the moisture out in the winter with heating and so on, fixing air gaps and whatnot, you have problems with mold and rot. The end result is that the real, actual, intrinsic value of these homes is going down already, which is a loss to the nation and not just to the banks, because the banks are attempting to delay the point at which we notice that their real estate investments are actually worth (as defined by what the market will pay) only a small fraction of what they're declared to be worth on paper.

The tertiary effect is that property reassessment values are based on sale values of neighboring properties, and the banks won't sell them for a reasonable price, so a lot of people out there are having to pay vastly more property taxes than they should be. Local governments operating in large part on property taxes are in no hurry to challenge the situation, so there is support for the corrupt state of affairs from above and below — the local governments are happy to send their peace officers out to kick people out into the cold so long as it keeps the whole bullshit scheme running.

Now, please provide any kind of citation for what you're saying, and I want data and not anecdotes before I will consider your response worth of perusal. What I've said here is well-known, it should not come as a surprise. Your refusal to believe it is also not a surprise.

Re:Move to a proper country

[An dochasac]

It is truly bizarre to new that in USA, the capitalist centre of the world, so many people scream for special rights to *renters* as if they are owners....

It is truly bizarre to new that in USA, the capitalist centre of the world, so many people scream for special rights to *renters* as if they are people!...

( Fixed that for you. )

Re:Move to a proper country

[An dochasac]

...

Plus I really dont think there are 640million empty properties right now in the US ("multiple empty houses for every man, woman and child" is what you said, combined with the current estimated population of 322million). A quick googling shows a recent estimate is only 18.6million, and most of those need significant extra work as they are uninhabitable.

As of Q3 2015 the St. Louis Fed estimates 17,443,000 vacant homes in the USA. and the OP began with an obvious typo, this is more than enough supply for our 500,000 homeless. But banks and corporate slumlords manage these property hoards to optimize their 3-month GAAP balance sheet which usually means the houses are not being efficiently used as homes, they are corporate gambling chips. That would be fine if our government of the people was for the people. But our corporate-owned government uses public resources to optimize fiat money stock prices of fictional people (aka corporations) instead of public health and well-being. So we socialize 800 billion dollar corporate losses and ignore the fallout of personal foreclosures and homelessness. (We also ignore that over the past 8 years, the ROI is approximately 1.5% on the extremely high-risk investment of bailing out a number of failed corporation. There are MUCH better ways to spend 800 billion dollars.)

In one of this century's first destructive supreme court rulings, Kelo v. City of New London decided that the US government can use eminent domain to seize your property and give it to Walmart, Oracle or any other private corporation. Homelessness is by design in an economy optimized for corporate stock prices. We've been here before. From the Grapes of Wrath:

“The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth. There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.”

Re:Move to a proper country

[Sir Holo]

Now, please provide any kind of citation for what you're saying, and I want data and not anecdotes before I will consider your response worth of perusal. What I've said here is well-known, it should not come as a surprise. Your refusal to believe it is also not a surprise.

Yeah, OK. Fine.

I bought a condo that had been foreclosed upon. Squatters had been living there, rent-free, for over 14 months. I bought the place to actually live in, but due to local "renters' rights" laws, I had to pay these assholes $8000 for "moving expenses", plus wait two months before I could move in. They caused a few thousand $$$'s of damage to the place before leaving. When I tried to get compensation for that, they brought the local rent-control board down on me, which threatened me with tons of fines, and actually re-controlled this property which had been removed from rent control since 1992 (like all other units in the large complex).

I also wrote to the bank, offering to act as a bounty hunter (which is an easy license to obtain), in order to collect the 14+ months of back-rent. That would have meant about $15,000 in free money (and the same to me) to the bank that had foreclosed on the landlord, who had done this same stunt with four local condos, and in the end absconded back to his home country as a rich man. The foreclosing bank, which stood to gain $$$$$$, without diminishing any other compensation or tax breaks, would not even reply to my multiple letters. They did not care. It was a small bank in a fly-over state, so I doubt that they needed the tax deductions. They were just clueless.

That is: Banks are not landlords. They do not want to be landlords. They suck at it. They will deliberately forego income/profits for the simple reason that they are clueless in landlord-tenant law.

Why is this on slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

Land prices in Austin are rising. Poor people being squeezed out is a natural consequence of rising land prices. The only tech related part of the story, is that Oracle is buying the land, so why is this on slashdot?

Re:Why is this on slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is an election year. Libs are out in force trying to maintain their grip on the White House; slashdot is no longer "News For Nerds"/

Re:Why is this on slashdot?

[unixisc]

Ironic part is that not only is Larry a Dem, during the Bill Clinton years, he was a member of the Democrat Leadership Council. So this story just demonstrates the hypocrisy of Libs

Re:Why is this on slashdot?

[Anonymous Coward]

You say Dem and Lib like it's markedly different from Repub and Con. The difference between Democrats/Liberals and Republicans/Conservatives is the same difference between cow manure and cow dung.

So the only irony is you thinking hypocrisy is present in only one side of the political/social spectrum and you're somehow above it.

Re:Why is this on slashdot?

[david_thornley]

We have a grip on the White House? Obama is not a liberal.

Even a proper state would have done

[drinkypoo]

Austin may seem like a liberal bastion compared to the rest of Texas, but it's actually still enormously conservative compared to say California.

Re:Even a proper state would have done

[will_die]

Texas state law is that cities can set the terms up to certain limits. Austin has decided not to set many limits.

Re:Even a proper state would have done

[drinkypoo]

Austin may seem like a liberal bastion compared to the rest of Texas, but it's actually still enormously conservative compared to say California.

Texas state law is that cities can set the terms up to certain limits. Austin has decided not to set many limits.

Yes, that is my point. It's up to Austin, and they choose to be dicks.

Re:Even a proper state would have done

[Anonymous Coward]

Living in Austin, can't wait until our daughter finishes high school and we can move out of Travis county and get out of little San Fran. Austin used to be a nice place but all the Kalifornia transplants and precious, delicate flowers at UT are turning it into a shithole.

Re:Even a proper state would have done

[Sir Holo]

Austin may seem like a liberal bastion compared to the rest of Texas, but it's actually still enormously conservative compared to say California.

R'Amen to that. I will never live south of the Mason-Dixon line. Ever.

I would rather starve and survive off the bits of cheese from the inside of discarded pizza boxes than to educate (college Prof. here) a population that still says things like, "The South will rise again."

Yes, I have indeed heard Southern acquaintances say this. And also one to brag that his father received US Govt subsidies to not grow food crops on his land in certain years—he grew tobacco instead, which actually paid more per acre. He was proud of milking and defrauding the US Government. His father was not only committing deliberate fraud, but happily giving people cancer to boot.

Cauterize Texas from the US. Give it back to Mexico. Let it be its own country. I don't care—just get rid of the South.

the truth of the matter

[Gravis Zero]

Oracle Corp. and Cypress Real Estate Advisors officials did not respond to requests for comment.

because they don't care about "other people's problems," even if they caused them. what they do care about is their money.

Re: the truth of the matter

[Anonymous Coward]

every company only cares about its money. Nothing new there. But any public comment by oracle is going to be construed in the news as an admission of guilt..... not that media outlets twist people's words or anything.

Re:the truth of the matter

[Anonymous Coward]

"because they don't care about "other people's problems," even if they caused them."

So...these people are poor and have limited options because of Oracle? What?

Too Late

[Anonymous Coward]

What these residents of Austin should have done is made a counter-offer to buy the property. Now, it's too late. Well, kidneys carry a high price there so where there is a will there is a way.

Re: asdfasdf

[Anonymous Coward]

Truer words have never been spoken

Re:I work for ORACLE...

[ThosLives]

This sounds well and good, but I see a similar issue around where I live - lots of farmland being converted into subdivisions and shopping centers. What good is the Cloud when there is no food left to eat?

Why is this a problem, you ask? One thing strikes me as interesting - the more farmland we lose, the more our farming becomes concentrated in fewer geographic areas. This means farming is much more susceptible to drought, flooding, etc. This is notably a Bad Thing.

We really should be more involved with our local zoning commissions and other legislative bodies to address property laws - for tenants, landowners, and conversion of property from one type to another.

The Cloud is a fad... Larry said so!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.forbes.com/2008/10/10/ellison-cloud-computing-tech-enter-cx_wt_1010oracle.html

If it's just fad Larry, why are you replacing people's homes with campuses for it?

Ellison can offer them jobs

[Required Snark]

He'll build a new yacht, and instead of being automated, it will be manned by the crop of newly created galley slaves that are the inevitable result of his business practice.

A bunch of poor people won't add anything to his bottom line, so they might as die serving to maintain his luxury lifestyle. It's not like they're citizens with "inalienable rights" to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" or any such commie nonsense.

Re:Ellison can offer them jobs

[JudgeFurious]

All Hail the Job Creators! Sounds like a win-win to me.

Re:Ellison can offer them jobs

[Sir Holo]

He'll build a new yacht, and instead of being automated, it will be manned by the crop of newly created galley slaves that are the inevitable result of his business practice.

A bunch of poor people won't add anything to his bottom line, so they might as die serving to maintain his luxury lifestyle. It's not like they're citizens with "inalienable rights" to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" or any such commie nonsense.

Isn't his main yacht named "The Octopus?"

I believe that his private investment company is similarly named: "Octopus Holdings Corp."

Is that a hint to anyone?

Re:I work for ORACLE...

[SuricouRaven]

The US does not lack for farmland, so food security is not a great issue there. The amount of farmland is great enough to support production of large amounts of non-staple luxury foods and feed for livestock. You could wipe out half the farmland in the US and people still wouldn't starve. It's still an issue for some other countries though - the UK, for example, with our much higher population density. Following the need to introduce rationing following WW2 our government invested a lot of resources into modernising agriculture in order to ensure we wouldn't be dependant upon food imports in future. I don't know how well they succeeded, but we do import a lot of food. Especially meat.

Good luck with that....

[Chrisq]

.... if you are lucky they might offer you a discount on volume database licensing. You might as well appeal to the devil. Second thoughts Microsoft sometimes likes charity PR so maybe the devil will give you a better offer

Was there no other location in all of Austin ...?

[DutchUncle]

Was there no other location in all of Austin to build, other than destroying this housing? No empty Texas Instruments factories, no half-constructed unfinished see-through buildings? Nothing that could really use destroying and replacing? No open land?

Re:I work for ORACLE...

[drinkypoo]

What's really needed is more vertical container gardening in cities, but if you use aeroponics you can just do that on roofs so destruction of farmland isn't a problem. This sort of gardening uses the least resources and minimizes transportation.

Re:I work for ORACLE...

[will_die]

You interested in land for food raising? Can get you as much as you want for in the $100 to $200 an acre. This is land that you can earn a profit from with minimal work, you will be hiring a staff of workers.
The problem is not the amount of land for food raising it is getting the people who want to do the work.

My Block had a park.

[Anonymous Coward]

The city sold it to apartment builder every house on the block lost value and everyone except one house is now a rental. All crime can be traced to said Apt now.
So good for tearing down low income apartments. I aint sheading any f ing tears.

Re:My Block had a park.

[Sir Holo]

The city sold it to apartment builder every house on the block lost value and everyone except one house is now a rental. All crime can be traced to said Apt now.
So good for tearing down low income apartments. I aint sheading any f ing tears.

Tearing down Public Housing –without replacing that housing stock with the 'dispersed, single-level dwelling' units at the same rate is what led to what is now referred to as "Chi-raq". That is, Chicago, with its re-attainment of the murder capital of the US.

I know people who saw this coming 15 years ago. They worked hard to balance the demolition rate with the rebuilding rate. Their please were not heeded. Now many people die in the street as a result.

I won't shed a tear for you if I hear of any violent act committed against you or your loved ones, you callous asshole.

BURN BABY BURN

[Anonymous Coward]

And let the sun shine in. The sun. Shine in.

You buy property. Not property + tenants.

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, I really dislike Oracle but this is stupid. Oracle is not evicting anyone, the people selling the property to Oracle are the ones evicting people. If you bought a house and then the original owner showed up demanding you pay their moving bill, you'd kick them to the curb. This is no different. Period, end of story. If anyone should foot the bill its the people actually profiting from the transaction.

Re:Help the poor and the dispossed by their better

[Anonymous Coward]

"betters"? There are no "betters" you idiot. Poor people are not "worse" or any less capable than anyone else, dumbshit. They just have different priorities.

What world do you live in?

[rsilvergun]

There's plenty of pro-rent control economists. Rent-Seeking is a dirty word to most economists who aren't that asshat Laffer. Supply and demand breaks down faster than you think. A small group of people are buying up all the houses in America and they're in no hurry to build cheap housing that drives down the rents they're charging.

You're making a fundamental mistake about public housing in America. "Section 8" as it's callled is a subsidy for land lords to rent out property that nobody else will rent (most commonly because of Asbestos in the building materials, which is still legal as long as it's "intact"). If you can figure out how to get American voters to support FDR style public works programs to build housing let me know. When I suggest it to just about anyone I know who votes they blather something about communism, socialism and Nazis and end the conversation there :(...

Oh dear lord

[rsilvergun]

you must live a very, very sheltered existence. Laws don't exist when they're not enforced. These laws are not enforced. It's like all the IT Contractor scams going on right now where you're hired as a Contractor for a full time job critical to the companies day to day ops. They just don't want to pay your health and unemployment benefits. That's illegal, right? I'm here in Arizona and good luck complaining to the labor board: They don't exists. Our right wing legislature just didn't fund them. They're not there. And thanks to a federal law that enforces Arbitration you can't even sue.

All of the protections that you think are there are gone. You're like a guy walking into a mine field with a magic amulet. It's not real, and you better hope you don't step on a mine.

You live in Germany

[rsilvergun]

you have a _lot_ more social welfare programs than Americans do. Moving is expensive, and rent is going up in America. These are people living paycheck to paycheck. The ones left behind were most likely trying to scrap together the money for a deposit on a new Apartment. There's no gov't programs to help them. They've been largely defunded. They're still there on paper so that folks like yourself can look and see and then blame the people for not being bootstrappy enough though.

I had a rough patch in life (3 family illnesses at once) and I kid you not people told me to go apply for Section 8 so the gov't would pay my mortgage. Section 8 is a program for larger property owners to get subsidies to rent apartment blocks and large groups of houses. Even for the wealthy and well connected it has a multi-year waiting list. But the people telling me that certainly felt better about themselves. They were helping! Plus they didn't need to lift a real finger the help me. You're doing the same thing, more or less. I'll give you props for taking care of your own though. You're right, in Germany I don't think this would happen.

Re:You live in Germany

[operagost]

No, he's pointing out that he would have about the same experience in Germany. You're to the left of a social democrat here. So if I buy a property, is it my job to find the tenants new housing, too? They need to get their deposits back and find a new place.

Re:You live in Germany

[houghi]

In Belgium, there are people living paycheck to paycheck as well and not all by choice. Even here it happens that rents go up. This is even indicated by law how much, so it will stay the same relatively.

The issue here is that some people did not get back their deposit. That is the ONLY issue. If they got back their deposit, than they could use that to pay the new deposit.

So the news is that people did not get back their deposit; All the rest is wallpaper.

Re:You live in Germany

[thegarbz]

you have a _lot_ more social welfare programs than Americans do.

I agree with your sentiment but ultimately this has little to do with the case or the GP's comments about rights of renters. Renters shouldn't have any more rights than they have. If the problem is homelessness then that's a problem for social welfare, not for rights of renters. It's not the duty of landlords to solve this problem.

Re:You live in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not the duty of landlords to solve this problem.

Perhaps. But another phrasing, like "It's the duty of landlords not to cause this problem" or "It's the fault of landlords when they act in a way to cause this problem" may change the perspective on things.

RACLE's don't do help the poor

[Anonymous Coward]

Rich Arseholes Called Larry Ellison don't do the 'be nice to the poor' thing. Rich Arseholes Called Larry Ellison only care for those who have at least a 100K/yr income, and preferably those which can actually afford products by the company named after the Rich Arsehole Called Larry Ellison.

We will give you unlimted EBT at walmart

[Joe_Dragon]

http://www.ksla.com/story/2367...

Re:Was there no other location in all of Austin ..

[Anonymous Coward]

Was there no other location in all of Austin to build, other than destroying this housing? No empty Texas Instruments factories, no half-constructed unfinished see-through buildings? Nothing that could really use destroying and replacing? No open land?

Then how would Oracle exercise its god-given right to wield their power by reminding the serfs of their proper place??? C'mon! Get with the program, man!

(sarcasm)

Shhhh....you're making sense.

[Anonymous Coward]

nt

Cloud Campus needs living space?

[El_Muerte_TDS]

I thought the cloud was everywhere. Why does a Cloud Campus needs physical space in one location?

I hope this ruins them

[Anonymous Coward]

Fk Oracle and all their useless, worthless garbage. I hope this puts them under.

Re:Was there no other location in all of Austin ..

[thegarbz]

There would have been plenty of other places, but the question is not so much about empty land but rather one of available services.

Re:I work for ORACLE...

[ThosLives]

Note I didn't say anything about "how much" farmland - I mentioned the distribution of that farmland and how the distribution affects supply shocks due to geographic affects like weather or disease.

It's like colocation for IT - you don't put all your IT basket in one location, why would you concentrate your food basket?

hear hear, harumph!

[Thud457]

51207733 is right. In our great free country, everyone has the right to starve to death in the gutter.

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread.

-- some asshole Frenchie

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[ilsaloving]

Oracle? Helping someone who hasn't been forced into a multi-million dollar support contract?

Go on, pull the other leg too!

Re:I work for ORACLE...

[tsstahl]

Citation, please. I have a couple hundred bucks burning a hole in my change jar.

Hawaiian option?

[unixisc]

Wouldn't he then have to show a preference for native Hawaiians i.e. descendants of Kamehameha?

Slave labor

[unixisc]

Doesn't Oracle have any manufacturing in China that they do? Like their old Sun servers? If yeah, and if any of the Chinese manufacturers make them, Oracle could send them off there to populate the factory dorms.

Corporate citizenship - or lack of it

[unixisc]

Except that companies in that era, like GM, Ford, even IBM were companies w/ souls (granted, you wouldn't think that while car shopping). Today's companies had lost that way back in the 90s. Everybody has lost Henry Ford's cliche of 'I make my cars cheap so that my employees can buy my cars'.

The part that confused me...

[tlambert]

Which part of low-income is confusing you?

The part that confused me... is the story has a lady who paid about $720/month in rent at Lakeview Apartments, and Trulia is show a bunch of apartments for rent at or below that price point in Austin, some where there would not even be a change in school district.

I'd definitely say that the property management company (Cypress Real Estate Advisors) is being asses, but that's not Oracle's fault, and neither is it Oracle's fault that the people are incapable of doing a web search. What it's really about is the fact that Oracle is seen to have deep pockets.

Re:The part that confused me...

[Coren22]

Are you sure you are looking at comparable apartments? She may have had a 3 BR, and you are looking at 1 BR, though if you are looking at 3 BR, you are right on the money, it is about greed and nothing else.

Holding the security deposit after early termination of the lease however is extremely sleazy, but they should be looking into a pro bono lawyer to go after Cypress, not protesting Oracle who had nothing to do with it.

Re:The part that confused me...

[parkinglot777]

She’s had to cut corners to make ends meet, including securing hand-me-downs to clothe her children given her lack of money to buy new clothes at the store.

Actually this part confused me... What's wrong with "hand me down" cloth??? I was growing up with cloth handed down from my brother. New cloth is nice, but it is not a necessity. With the kind of mentality (must have new cloth) for those who identify themselves as low-income is bothering me...

publicly execute larry ellison as a lesson

[Anonymous Coward]

get out the guillotine. the law no longer protects the people so it's time for the people to clean house. cull the elites.

Why not?

[rsilvergun]

Why not force the banks to bear this cost. They got billions of my tax dollars (I'm a single high income earner with minimal capital investment, I pay the maximum tax of anyone in the US) for free. When I borrow money they make money off me. When they borrow money they get money from me. And it was largely their irresponsible lending practices coupled with large scale outsourcing supported by them that put all these Americans in the poor house. So I'll ask again, why the hell not make them pay to clean up their mess?

Oh, and the only reason they paid any of that back was because we have a Democrat in the Whitehouse and he threatened to regulate the bank owner's bonuses if they didn't. Funny how as soon as conditions were attached to the free money they suddenly had it all to payback. Well, not all of it, billions and billions still went missing; not even counting the trillions that went awol in Iraq.

Christ, the things that get modded up on /. these days...

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

(I'm a single high income earner with minimal capital investment, I pay the maximum tax of anyone in the US)

No you aren't and no you don't, Jeremy.

Nobody gets their deposit back

[rsilvergun]

have your ever rented for more than a few months? You don't get your deposit back. You're lucky if they don't take you to court to get you to pay to replace the carpets they were going to replace anyway.

Re:Nobody gets their deposit back

[Anonymous Coward]

I've rented for years at a stretch, and *always* gotten my deposit back. Every damned cent of it. Strangely enough, I take care of the places where I live, because I don't want to live in a freaking dump.

As for your 'replace the carpet' claim, tour deposit is to cover damages, not expected wear and tear.

Re:Nobody gets their deposit back

[david_thornley]

I've rented for more than a few months in, let's see, five places. In one case, I had some of the deposit deducted for actual damage. In the others, there was no problem with getting the deposit back.

Re:Nobody gets their deposit back

[Scarletdown]

Well in this case, they should get their deposits back. Those deposits are to cover any repairs that the landlord has to make after the tenant moves out. Since the entire freakin' building is going to be demolished to make way for a new hyperspace bypa...bigass data center, there will be no damage that the landlord will need to repair. Because of that, not returning the deposits is nothing less than theft.

The issue here is rent is skyrocketing in America

[rsilvergun]

because we have a housing shortage, a weak economy for the working class (especially blue collar) and a mortgage system designed to drain the maximum amount of money from said working class.

When you're poor you don't move very often (unless it's because you're homeless now). That's because moving is _expensive_ to the poor. For one thing base rent at a new apartment tends to be a lot higher than what your paying how. Rent goes up every year, but the rate is a little lower than a new apartment to encourage you to stay so they can soak up your rent money. Also that deposit might be 3, 5 or even 10 years old. It's not going to get them into a new apartment with new, higher rent.

A lot of people have been pointing out these folks were warned and it's their fault for not moving. If you've never been truly broke and not had your parents to fall back on then you have no idea. The folks not moving are tapped out. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.

Re: Help the poor and the dispossed by their bett

[war4peace]

Ones who don't belong to a posse anymore, I presume?

Re:Was there no other location in all of Austin ..

[Anonymous Coward]

What empty TI facilities in Austin? Unless something has changed very recently, all of the former Austin facility was leased by Flextronics, after acquiring Solectron.

Internet desert

[tepples]

There aren't any clouds to speak of in the desert. Oracle can't build its campus in an Internet desert.