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NSA Cheerleaders Discover Value of Privacy Only When Their Own Is Violated (theintercept.com)
Advocatus Diaboli sends this report from Glen Greenwald:
The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that the NSA under President Obama targeted Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his top aides for surveillance. In the process, the agency ended up eavesdropping on "the contents of some of their private conversations with U.S. lawmakers and American-Jewish groups" about how to sabotage the Iran Deal. All sorts of people who spent many years cheering for and defending the NSA and its programs of mass surveillance are suddenly indignant now that they know the eavesdropping included them and their American and Israeli friends rather than just ordinary people. The long-time GOP chairman of the House Intelligence Committee and unyielding NSA defender Pete Hoekstra last night was truly indignant to learn of this surveillance.
In January 2014, I [Greenwald] debated Rep. Hoekstra about NSA spying and he could not have been more mocking and dismissive of the privacy concerns I was invoking. "Spying is a matter of fact," he scoffed. As Andrew Krietz, the journalist who covered that debate, reported, Hoekstra "laughs at foreign governments who are shocked they've been spied on because they, too, gather information" — referring to anger from German and Brazilian leaders. As TechDirt noted, "Hoekstra attacked a bill called the RESTORE Act, that would have granted a tiny bit more oversight over situations where (you guessed it) the NSA was collecting information on Americans." But all that, of course, was before Hoekstra knew that he and his Israeli friends were swept up in the spying of which he was so fond.
In January 2014, I [Greenwald] debated Rep. Hoekstra about NSA spying and he could not have been more mocking and dismissive of the privacy concerns I was invoking. "Spying is a matter of fact," he scoffed. As Andrew Krietz, the journalist who covered that debate, reported, Hoekstra "laughs at foreign governments who are shocked they've been spied on because they, too, gather information" — referring to anger from German and Brazilian leaders. As TechDirt noted, "Hoekstra attacked a bill called the RESTORE Act, that would have granted a tiny bit more oversight over situations where (you guessed it) the NSA was collecting information on Americans." But all that, of course, was before Hoekstra knew that he and his Israeli friends were swept up in the spying of which he was so fond.
What, they thought they were special? they thought they were part of the untouchable elite? Fucking rubes, anyone championing the NSA's actions deserve what's coming to them. Retards, the whole lot of them.
Nancy Pelosi, Mike Rogers, all of you who voted for safety over freedom - you deserve neither. - Ben Franklin
Justin Amash - Thanks for standing for the constitution, specifically the 4th amendment.
http://sadtrombone.com/?autoplay=true
The government should NOT be spying on its own citizens, but spying on heads of state? That's kind of what they are for, right? I mean, if you're opposed to them spying on those guys, you're probably opposed to their existence in general.
These people who routinely advocate for mass surveillance of the rest of us are outraged at being surveilled themselves? The arrogance and/or cognitive dissonance required must be astronomical.
They served their purpose.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
for hypocrisy, along with a Democratic Congresswoman who did pretty much the same thing a few years ago, and I'm sure there are others.
But, the larger picture is this. Our privacy is being invaded on an awesome number of ways by a bewildering assortment of actors using an incredible variety of tools for capture, aggregation, and analysis. And, like the Internet, one senses this really can't be stopped. To quote a former Silicon Valley CEO: "You have zero privacy now. Get over it." Or:
The Internet interprets privacy safeguards as damage and routes around it.
We all remember what Nixon's articles of impeachment were about, right? Illegal surveillance of political opposition. Executive branch (which NSA is a part of) has not legal authority to spy on congressmen.
Dear Rep. Hoekstra,
Here's your Word of the Day:
Hypocrisy (noun) - The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.
Sincerely,
The rest of us.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
For some reason, I read that as "NBA Cheerleaders Discover..."
sweet sweet vengeance. It's only wrong if you're the victim NSA? Oh come now child, no need to cry. It's called growing up and realizing there's a real world out there.
How many times has Israel been caught spying on the US? All countries spy on each other. Senators conspiring with foreign heads of state though could be considered unamerican, however. It sounds like we were spying on Israel and some congress critters got caught up in it. In other words, the NSA was doing what it's supposed to be doing, monitoring and spying on foreign activity.
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
We'll see your Jonathan Pollard and raise.
Have gnu, will travel.
Don't spill your bias so early, guys! At least trick me into reading the first paragraph before you pile on the politics.
Jus' sayin'.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
No heads will roll. If you hav nt noticed the constitution has been shit on for a while now. Why should congress be any different.
What's the problem? As long as the targets aren't Congress members
Maybe you should have kept reading past the first sentence? To quote the second sentence of the summary
In the process, the agency ended up eavesdropping on "the contents of some of their private conversations with U.S. lawmakers and American-Jewish groups" about how to sabotage the Iran Deal.
You've yet to establish how recording an overseas communication violated any laws. There's no law that excludes Congress members from surveillance when communicating with a non US citizen located in a foreign country.
Especially since they started the shitting...
They're all just ordinary people.
And he and his criminal administration should go to prison. Liberal hypocrisy at it's highest... all we heard about Bush from liberals and they sit dead silent here. It just proves what many of us have been saying... LIBERALS ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE CONS THEY HATE! All politicians and their clown shoe supporters are worthless. OWN IT LIBERALS.
i did not know nsa had them... shudder at the thought. what a way to ruin a popular fetish.
Article 1, Section 6
"They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place."
It's "The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game" by either Roxy Music, Grace Jones and whoever else recorded it.
I'm sure the NSA doesn't care about those steamy penis pics you've been sending to Netanyahu. At least, so long as the NSA continues to meet its funding goals.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Somebody spied on Israel, but nothing outrageous came from it? Israel , founded by terrorist action by zionists, wants to stop the US (their only supporter) from acting amicably with all the countries that hate them? What !! what a revelation
I could have told you that without phone taps. Zionists are like ISIS, normal people of the same religion denounce the violence, but they do nothing to stop it, and they are all too happy to benefit from it. Ever met an arab that wants Sharia everywhere? I have. Ever met an arab that would rather all Sharia be replaced by modern secular law? me neither
Its crazy that the certain candidate that I will never mention has so much popularity right now. People have dropped the ball and now we will find out how much worse things can get. Getting rid of the corruption would help everyone, except the corrupted who receive a greater personal benefit. Let everyone spy on everyone. Open it all up.
Spying on congress is a no no, but spying on agents from another country, another country that is known for it's espionage practices is perfectly legit. And if congress vermin happen to get caught in treasonous actions by such a sting, sucks to be them They need to also be prosecuted for treason.
"Ricker-racker, firecracker, sis boom bah!
Anonymous collection of metadata, anonymous collection of metadata!
Rah, rah, RAH!"
(note to humor-impaired-NSA-hating moderators: it's just a joke :-)
Spying on active members of Congress is outside of the authority of the executive branch. Unless they had a warrant when they did this, they are doing exactly what Nixon was going to be impeached for.
Except they were spying of foreign counties, and these Congressmen just happened to be engaging in acts of Treason.
Obama should treat them with the same respect that the Republicans have been treating Hillary and have them arrested for Treason.
The NSA hasn't suddenly discovered Justice. They do not now serve the working man.
They have become so powerful that they are no longer leashed by the rest of the Government. They are serving their own interests, with less of a need to compromise in deference to the interests of the current crop of politicians.
This event does not represent a swing in our favor, so much as a bit of a step up in the NSA's own power.
The only question that remains is whether they will get a beat-down, or whether they will do the beating down.
When did the US media start allowing publication of any kind of news that might reflect unfavourably on Benjamin Netanyahu and his Likud Party? Isn't that grounds for immediate classification as a terrorist and transfer to some dark, ugly hole in the back of a Third World prison?
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Will it make a difference at election time? Probably not. The regular 95% reelection rate is going to continue for the foreseeable future, and people will come back here and complain like it's not their fault that it does. We've been through this before. It's just another day in paradise. Go back to your drinks, and forget about it.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Yes, I clicked this article to read about the violation of cheerleaders too.
Charma strikes again.
Once again, the people who make and enforce laws think they're exempt from those same laws.
"I have a bully pulpit and I can fight back.", Jane Harman, former supporter of the Bush/Cheney secret warrantless surveillance program
No need to watch us, just the terrorists!
The world is split in two: ordinary people and extraordinary assholes.
Than, according to the spying agencies, its not actually spying, just "a gathering of data".
Only when such data is listened to by a person with the intend to spy (yeah, excluding everything/one ranging from software solutions (AI's) that will do the "pre"-filtering to transcriptors and "just handlers" of such transcribed documents) it becomes something spying laws supposedly have anything to say over ...
Or, simpler said: Only when they actually use it directly against you it becomes spying, otherwise its just "data".
Don't you just love them ?
Dictatorships are only fun if it's you who does the dictating.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Only want it for themselves. Who'd have thunk it.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
And now I have the image of cheerleaders in scary agent suits - complete with dark shades - doing a chant about actions which "we can neither confirm, nor deny".
Well, one would suppose it's more that they are there to spy on foreign enemies, on head of states that are NOT friendly and on 'states' like ISIS and other international terrorist groups. Things like that.
One might rightfully question whether, in this day and age, it's still warranted that you spy on allies and heads-of-state which are supportive and you're allied with. We've developed and evolved since the days that any nation was waging war to any other each decade, and heads of states were either tyrants or kings who could do as they pleased.
It *could* be one is of the opinion that it still is, but then be consistent, and don't cry foul when others do the same. The system we have now is rife of hypocrisy: we're spying on our friends and allies, but find it outrageous if they would do the same. Why? Either accept that they do, and we do, or make an agreement were we DO NOT do that anymore with friendly nations. And let's put a fine of a billion or so per infringement, so it has a chance of actually being a deterrent to do so.
Anything which helps bring clarity and disclosure is a plus. Next year we will see massive amounts of information about these under the table multinational deals come to light, and it will not be easy to digest.
It sounds like these people were committing treason by undermining US interests in collaboration with a foreign racist apartheid regime. While I am strongly against warantless totalitarian surveillance schemes, I do believe that it would have been possible to get a warrant to target these people, particularly the foreigners involved.
I assume that
Yes, there is.
Maybe you don't understand the issue here. Spying on Congress IS forbidden. It does not matter if it's TARGETED spying, or if they just happen to be in a conversation with someone which is eligible to be spied on. The moment they are spying on conversations of congressmen - directly or indirectly - they are spying illegally. Just as is the case when a criminal converses with his lawyer, at that very moment, the spying should stop.
If it's recordings, the recordings should stop. If they had no way to stop that (yeah, right), they ought to remove and destroy all the conversations where the congressmen are part off.
The whole flaw in your reasoning is due to the fact that you think that, because they were targeting somebody else, and that somebody else was speaking with congressmen, it's ok to listen and record (aka; spy on) both, in that instance. It's not. For the simple reason that you're still spying on them, regardless, and that's forbidden. There is no exception in the law made, for allowing spying on congressmen when they are part of a conversation with someone else who *was* targeted for spying, just as it's still forbidden to spy on lawyers when they are conversing with criminals, even when it's due to a valid and legal spying and eavesdropping of the criminal instead of the lawyer.
It's "The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game" by either Roxy Music, Grace Jones and whoever else recorded it.
Apparently, it's a Smokey Robinson song. I'm going to go ahead and declare the Massive Attack version to be the pinnacle, though. Clearly inspired by the Marvelettes version. I couldn't track down the Roxy Music cover, but I'm not a big fan to begin with.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
from the british newspaper The Independent
"wreathful "
Well sure, I put a wreath on my door too.
So? If the rest of Americans are spied upon when they talk to foreigners, what makes the congress critters special? In fact if those lawmakers were members of the house they should be arrested for violating the law. The logan act prevents lawmakers from colluding with foreign governments against their own. Members of the senate might have a pass though because of their need to be involved in treaties.
Hell ya know what I will compromise with you, lets arrest all of the congresscritters and all of the NSA. They all fucking deserve it after all, might as well.
If the foo shits, you are doomed to step in it... That is one of the key parts of the Law of Unintended Consequences.
All I want to know is if they come down before their skirts do. Oh wait, wrong kind of cheerleader.
My standard response to people cheering for new government powers (including NSA spying) is: Would you want these powers in the hands of someone on the opposite end of the political spectrum from you? If the person is a Democrat, imagine President Donald Trump with those powers. If the person is a Republican, imagine President Hillary Clinton with those powers. Rarely is the person fine with this situation, though they are perfectly willing for someone who shares their political philosophy to have those powers.
This here is a real-life example of that response. These people are just fine with the NSA spying on people, but once that spying turns on them they find it a violation of their rights. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. You can't declare that "all people like me are special and exempt from X." You either are for the NSA spying on everyone including you or you oppose the NSA spying.
Here's hoping their outrage isn't short lived and instead turns into a swell of political opposition to NSA spying.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Wait, we're being spying on by NBA Cheerleaders? I might have to re-evaluate my position on this issue.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
Massive Attack's is the version I heard first (from the Batman Forever soundtrack), and it's still my favorite.
I used to play the hell out of that CD. In my Discman.
I feel old.
Member of congress and senate don't have to go through the TSA body screening, in light of that NSA snooping a congressman, those in Washington will try to make them immunte to NSA snooping.
All these immunities have the effect of de-sensetizing our lawmakers from the effects of their laws.
Let's write them to force them and lift any immunity they have.
I wrote my representative already.
http://www.senate.gov/senators/contact/senators_cfm.cfm?State=WA
"You take every and all criticism personally, and won't admit when you are wrong. You also spam flood any dissenting opinions, even when every one of your points has been refuted" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday December 30, 2015 @10:06AM (#51208675)
What's that you said, Coren22 after your massive technical blunders I crushed you with here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
?
APK
P.S.=> Can you say "hypocrite"? Can you say "pot calling a kettle black"?? Can you ADMIT you're full of shit??? apk
"You take every and all criticism personally, and won't admit when you are wrong. You also spam flood any dissenting opinions, even when every one of your points has been refuted" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday December 30, 2015 @10:06AM (#51208675)
What's that you said, Coren22 after your massive technical blunders I crushed you with here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
?
APK
P.S.=> Can you say "hypocrite"? Can you say "pot calling a kettle black"?? Can you ADMIT you're full of shit??? apk
This is a serious matter, but the linker muddies the issue by emphasizing the 'israel's angle. The issue is not and was not about israel (although if you read the actual wall street journal article, you'll see that the Israeli reaction as petty much 'meh, we expect that they are spying on us'.)
The issue is That they were spying on duly elected members of the legislative branch of the government, which I believe is illegal, and prosecutable. Not to mention spying on american citizens. Disturbingly, the white house decided to abdicate its responsibility for this early on by telling the new tho make its item decision about who it should spot on, and tho only pass on what it felt appropriate ti the white noise- in other words they didn't say .'spy on bibi, but only do it in a legal way, but rather 'spy on Bibi, but doo what it takes and don't tell us about what you do or how your do it, we don't want to know'.
This series new as another case of the executive branch feeling that can do what it what wants with impunity if in its mind the ends justify the means, with a touch of nixonian paranoia thrown into the mix.
This attitude permeates the higher level of the administration. Remember when the cia spied illegally on the Senate intelligence committee because it got hold of information about us torture that the white house wanted kept secrets?. They illegally spied on the very committee whose job is to provide oversight of the intelligence community! The white house and cia denied it, then said it was no big deal then said it was low level flunkies.
The scary thing about all this is that it's under Pres. Obama's watch - and he was elected on the promise of more transparency and the dismantling of the illegal domestic spying programs! Depressing.
These people always say, why worry, if you have nothing to hide.
So, my question is what does this guy have to hide?
Aren't you actually happy to know what kind of back room deals the politicians are making and who's interests they are really serving?
I'm tired of seeing MY TAX MONEY end up going to israel every year. (4 billion this year.) I don't care if we get most of it back when they buy our weapons. It's a giant wasteful corporate handout. And we're not gaining anything useful from the charade.
Most of this is under the FMF (Foreign Military Funding) program which takes to form of grants and loans cheerfully guaranteed by the US tax payer and that often get written off in exchange for promises from the Israeli Govt. not to set the Middle East on fire. The US pledged to provide the Israelis with up to $30 billion in military equipment over the decade from 2008-18 (they asked for $50 billion). This agreement was extended by Obama through to 2028 which should yield the Israelis at least 100 billion in US military aid. A large portion of the next $30+ billion instalment appears to be deals for the purchase (effectively the gift) of 94 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets to the IDF courtesy of the US taxpayer. On top of that the US government has guaranteed to buy $4 billion worth of Israeli military equipment and to finances a bunch of missile programs and other military research in Israel. It's not the US taxpayer that gets those billions back, it's US armaments manufacturers who chalk them up as profits and so do Israeli ones since Israel is the only country that I know of that is allowed to spend FMF funds (26% of the total aid) on purchases from domestic arms manufacturers.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Muslims.
You might want to investigate history from the time of Muhammad. You will be shocked at all the illegal invasions they did. I know! Who thought history existed before Justin Bieber?
The vast majority of politicians don't give two shits about something unless it affects them personally, or else they're bribed to care. How did this make it into the news pile?
'He who has to break a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom.' -- Gandalf to Saruman
Clinton 2016! Clinton is a square shooter!
privacy as violated as they have violated the privacy of the public.