China Names Chang'e 3 Lunar Landing Site 'Guang Han Gong' Or 'Moon Palace' (examiner.com)

MarkWhittington writes: One of the privileges of landing on the moon is that the country that does so gets to name the landing site. For example, the International Astronomical Union has officially recognized "Tranquility Base", using the Latin designation "Statio Tranquillitatis", as the site where the Apollo 11 astronauts first landed and walked on the moon on July 20, 1969. Now, according to a story in Moon Daily, the site where the Chinese Chang'e 3 probe landed has been named "Guang Han Gong" which translates as "Moon Palace." The name has also been recognized by the IAU.

Comments

Palace

[YayaY]

Who's palace is this?

Re:Palace

[Anonymous Coward]

Belongs to China.

Re:Palace

[thisisauniqueid]

Who's palace is this?

Chang'e's, obviously :-) (She's the Chinese goddess of the moon.)

Re: Palace

[Anonymous Coward]

Chang'e you can believe in!

Re: Palace

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm saddened that this has not been modded up.

why latin for one but not the other?

[Anonymous Coward]

like the title asks....

Re:why latin for one but not the other?

[Nutria]

Cultural sensitivity?

Re:why latin for one but not the other?

[The Evil Atheist]

Because one is not Chinese and the other is.

Re:why latin for one but not the other?

[jandersen]

Why indeed? The scientific community in the West are fond of Latin and (classical) Greek, because those languages were until quite recently and important part of everybody's higher education. Historically, Latin was the language of the elite - it was used by the church in the middle ages and became the shared language in a Europe consisting of many languages and dialects - try to sample, for example, the current, German dialects to get a mild taste of how difficult it must have been to communicate across regions in Europe at the time. And since the church and the monastried became institutions of learning (and later universities), a major part of getting an education was to learn Latin. It clung on until very recently in some cicles - I remember reading in the forewords for one of the latest editions of the Flora Europaea, that he editors had been through a major discussion about whether to publish it in Latin or English (in the end they decided for English). A lot of the rules governing scientific communication was decided on at a time when Europe played the dominant role, so Latin/Greek still plays a major role in things like biological nomenclature - hences the ever more strained names of dinosaur species discovered in China; it's hard to fit the square peg of Chinese words into the narrow, round hole of Latin.

So that's why Latin - but there is no reason to expect that Latin - or indeed English - will forever be the dominant language in science. A lot of very worthwhile research has been published in both Russian, Chinese and other languages, and not all of it has been translated to English. There is still a lot of Russian maths being 'discovered', for example. And there is also Ramanujan, an Indian whose mathematical genius still hasn't been fully understood - how many other geniuses are there, that we in the West haven't heard of yet?

Re:why latin for one but not the other?

[KGIII]

I took four years of Latin back in school. It has come in handy. I also took a couple of years of Greek. Those have come in handy. There are loads of languages that I do not speak but I can figure a lot of things out in text. It's not uncommon for me to be at a non-English site and still be able to grasp the gist of it. Obviously, no Cyrillic, Asian, or Arabic type things work for me - I don't know what the characters mean.

I do wonder why it's okay to change the English to Latin but not okay to change the Chinese to Latin. I don't really care, however. In three hours I will have forgotten this almost entirely and in a week I won't even remember the name. I figure that, by the time I hit 70, I should be able to hide my own Easter Eggs.

Re: why latin for one but not the other?

[Anonymous Coward]

Latin was the language of the "elites"? It was not the common street language, but the language franca of the day. There was a common need to be understood, in even trade. In any Berg, you could hire a educated person to write a sale, to explain by contract what is needed to be done for repair, to write a marriage contract, etc. And a safe bank, so you were not robbed on the way home or to your next appointment. They all needed a common language. And a common safepoint. Greek, south of the Med, Latin north of the Med. Arabic came latter, after the losses of crusades. When they started adopting a common alphabet in Arabic, so it could be read anywhere in the Arab controlled lands.

NOPE

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck the Chinese. Nuke em all to death.

Re:NOPE

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck the Chinese. Nuke em all to death.

Welcome to /. Donald Trump

Re:NOPE

[Anonymous Coward]

... and take your wife.

She-love-you-long-time!

Re:NOPE

[Anonymous Coward]

Most Chinese men are too passive and are too poorly endowed to attract a majority of Western women.

Re:NOPE

[GuB-42]

Now that nearly everything is made in China, nuking China may be actually be more damaging to us than nuking ourselves.

Re:NOPE

[Anonymous Coward]

Nuking China IS nuking ourselves, do you not think they would respond in kind? Not to mention I don't think Russia would enjoy suddenly living next to a 'Fallout 4' wasteland.

This is regardless of our trade relations with them. Even IF we didn't buy a single thing from China, this would still be true.

To be honest though, I'm more worried about India/Pakistan, Israel/Middle East, or a rogue terrorist group nuking someone, than us nuking China. Maybe Russia in Crimea, if that went too far, but that would be less likely I think.

Hancock

[Anonymous Coward]

But Hancock has already been there and painted the All-Heart Logo on it so it should belong to them...

Moon Palace

[turkeydance]

NOW we have the band's name....

Re:Moon Palace

[Anonymous Coward]

The band is "The Chang'e Three", they play the Moon Palace on Friday's, Saturday's, and Monday's (Ladies Night, no cover and half price drinks for ladies on Monday's), their first album was "Statio Tranquillitatis" an experimental concept album of "Moony Tunes" from which "One Small Step" was the first single.

Clearly, you are not a true fan. I've been listening to them since before they were cool.

What a coincidence.

[110010001000]

Moon Palace is the name of my favorite local Chinese restaurant.

Re:What a coincidence.

[PopeRatzo]

So this means we'll be able to get General Tso's Chicken on the Moon? Well, that's something at least.

Palatio Lunaris?

[Ecuador]

So, if the IAU accepted "Tranquility Base" in the Latin equivalent, I assume something similar happened with the Moon Palace name, right? There's no such mention in TFA, but I don't see why it would not be so...

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[110010001000]

No, Latinizing a Chinese name would be culturally insensitive.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

You can call it a Latin name if you want. You would be surprised to learn that other countries with their own language even have a different word than "Moon" to refer to the Moon!

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Ecuador]

I don't understand the comment. My native language is Greek and I speak at least a couple more quite well, so I know various words for the Moon, however I was talking about the IAU. If they can't accept the English of "Tranquility Base" and have to turn it to Latin, why would they accept any other language apart from Latin? Don't you think that's a valid question?

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Who said they didn't accept the english? Maybe it was submitted in its Latin form, since science related names in the West is latinized? Why are you so offended?

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Ecuador]

Again with your assumptions. Why do you now assume I am offended? I am asking. So, for example if the Latin name was submitted for Tranquility Base when the English would have been accepted as well, that's one answer for my question. But you don't actually know, do you? You just give random responses because you assume things about people, you can't actually answer my question.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[R3d M3rcury]

Yeah. Those Chinese are as bad as the French!

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/J...

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is "Just asking questions"... and there are actual questions. If you can't tell them apart it is no-one's fault but yours ;)

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

This is not an actual question. It is a whine.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[turbidostato]

"You would be surprised to learn that other countries with their own language even have a different word than "Moon" to refer to the Moon!"

So, after all, that's no moon!

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

I've noticed that those who link to rational wiki are the most petulant, easily offended whiners there are.

Why people think it is a worthwhile website for anything but mockery is beyond me.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Yeah, damn them for holding people to making rational arguments!

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

It's not totally clear but it seems that the IAU uses Latin as the official designation and other nations are free to use their own translation.

So taking a more established place of "Mare Tranquillitatis", it is referred to as Mare Tranquillitatis in a lot of English language articles, but also as The Sea of Tranquility. Likewise, French articles will use both the Latin and "La mer de la Tranquillite", and German article will use the Latin, or "Meer der Ruhe".

Not quite sure what this means for "Moon Palace". I don't think there's any precedent for non-English, non-Latin names. I imagine the IAU will use "Palatio Lunaris", but what everyone else uses will be down to house style, picking either the Latin, Chinese or whatever language is being used.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

It would help this position of rational wiki was rational. Sadly it's highly selective, and has a clear editorial bias.

Seriously, here's their article on the Daily Telegraph. It starts of reasonable and then goes off on a rant about "wingnuttery", and "pro-batshit" article.

Or how about David Cameron, who apparently, " has made it his life's work to surpass his idol in Margaret Thatcher and take her place as the most reviled name in modern British politics."

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Oh, I guess that ad hominem logic (or maybe genetic fallacy?) completely invalidates the idea that "just asking questions" is a debate tactic.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

It's not an ad hominem attack. Your "just asking questions" comment was an ad hominem attack. You were accusing the other poster of "attempting to make wild accusations acceptable". Did you read the article?

You were attacking the character of the person asking the questions, rather than addressing what you perceive as problems in the questions themselves.

My observation that those who link to rationalwiki are easily offended whiners was also an ad hominem. No surprise you didn't spot that (yes, that's one as well).

This also has nothing to do with my response. Your justification was based on the assumption that rationalwiki was rational. I was simply demonstrating that this is an argument without merit.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Calling someone out for using "just asking questions" is not an ad hominem attack. Nowhere did I say his arguments were invalidated by his tactics.

Just because I didn't comment on your name calling didn't mean I didn't spot it. That's what people should normally do when encountering ad hominem attacks that has absolutely no bearing on arguments. I know people like you love the comeback argument style of Jerry Springer, but the rest of us have standards.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

Oh bullshit!

Do you have an answer to the question, or are you just some troll relishing in your own superiority for "calling people out" for asking the wrong sorts of question?

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

And Latinizing an English name isn't? For any English speaker born in the last 500 years, what is the point of Latin?

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

How do you differentiate between people who are asking questions, and people who are "Just asking questions"?

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

If bothered reading the whole thread, you'd see that I did answer the question. He kept asking, at which point, it became a red flag.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

When no answer given is good enough and the question is repeated with no counter-evidence or counter-argument.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

You gave a patronising non-answer which was based on reading a non-existent subtext into the question. It doesn't answer what the IAU's policy is here or whether they will Latinise the name. When the question was clarified, you switched to a tactic of insults.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

My answer covered all those grounds either implicitly or explicitly. There's no policy of forced Latinization. Latinization is a purely a Western science convention. I gave those answers and they weren't accepted.

Whether or not they were patronising is irrelevant.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Latin naming is a Western scientific convention and perceived as having gravitas. Stop playing the victim.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[91degrees]

You didn't give those answers. At best you offered part of it as a possibility, and that's being charitable.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

There's more than one way to state answers. This isn't primary school.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Anonymous Coward]

You want "Palatium Lunare" there. Palatio is the process of piledriving or putting stakes into the ground. Palatium is the name of the Palatine hill, whence in later Latin the idea of a "palace" (since Augustus and the early emperors built their homes on the Palatine).

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[gstoddart]

No no no ... Desinas in victimam.

(And, no, I have no idea if that's right, I just had Google do it. ;-)

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

But what if the answers aren't actually good enough?
My take on this exchange, is that the GP asked legitimate questions, you responded with speculation and assumptions, none of which answered those questions, he called you out for it, and you got all rationalwiki on him as if that's some sort of get out of jail free card.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

Latin naming is a Western scientific convention and perceived as having gravitas. Stop playing the victim.

I was trying to make point. I don't use Latin for place names here, why should I do it for the moon?
Tranquility Base serves the purpose, just like "New York" or "London" does. Changing it to Latin sounds like a bit of a wank to me.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

It wasn't a legitimate question, just like none of the other whines about "how come we don't get to keep the english name" loaded questions were.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

And I was making the point that Western scientific convention likes Latin names. The IAU is a scientific body that assigns names for scientific purposes. You are free to continue to use english names for every day communications. But in science, people need to know if you're using a colloquial term or an actual term. Stop turning this into a culture war.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

It wasn't a legitimate question, just like none of the other whines about "how come we don't get to keep the english name" loaded questions were.

I think these are geniune questions. When someone named Chicago, did someone else decide it wasn't good enough and gave the latin verison instead? Seriously, why does a place name have to be latinized? If everyone knows what the words 'Tranquility Base' mean, why make up a completely foreign verison of the name?
I think this is a valid question,a nd I'm yet to hear a satisfactory answer.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

And I was making the point that Western scientific convention likes Latin names. The IAU is a scientific body that assigns names for scientific purposes. You are free to continue to use english names for every day communications. But in science, people need to know if you're using a colloquial term or an actual term. Stop turning this into a culture war.

Not a culture war, geniune curiousity. Tranquility is a place name, just like Berlin or Moscow. Why does it have to have a scientific name, when no other geographic location has one?

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Because they have no scientific use.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[The Evil Atheist]

Because the name is for use by astronomy, hence INTERNATIONAL ASTRONOMICAL UNION. These are not legal names. You can call it anything you want, but when the scientists are talking to each other, if you don't care for it, then it doesn't concern you. It's the fact that you and the others seemingly refuse to accept this fact that makes this JAQing off.

Re:Palatio Lunaris?

[Jack Griffin]

Anthropologists would disagree...

Sounds like the name of a brothel,

[dsmatthews9379]

for people with a very particular fetish.

Re:Sounds like the name of a brothel,

[tobiah]

cheese

Chinese efforts

[Anonymous Coward]

Have the Chinese probes ever caught a glimpse of anything that NASA left on the moon with publicly available images?

A tasteful name for once

[DNS-and-BIND]

Amazing, they didn't name it after some anime woman with big tits or a character from a movie popular 40 years ago, or Tolkien. Or that they didn't refuse to honor their own culture at all and use a name from some distant culture. I'm sure one of the Chinese scientists wanted to name the landing site after his parrot, but evidently there were adults in charge who overruled him.

Re:A tasteful name for once

[The Evil Atheist]

So how many centuries until it is acceptable to use names from anime, movies or Tolkien?

Re:A tasteful name for once

[Holi]

Isn't anime traditionally Japanese or Korean?

Re:All Under Heaven

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the USSR achieved that prior.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1

Do Bombing sites count?

[tobiah]

Wondering if Obama got to name the crater he made..
http://science.slashdot.org/st...

A better name would be

[Anonymous Coward]

Hoo Flung Poo

AFAIK "Moon Palace" is a place that has some great take-out.

Re: All Under Heaven

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol! I hope this is a joke.

Oblig 80's Movie Reference...

[Anonymous Coward]

It should be named: 'Long Duck Dong'

Nice name

[Anonymous Coward]

Might be a reference to an 18th century Chinese poem. Kind of nice. Better than 'tianemen square two'

They got the name from

[mark_reh]

a Paul Auster novel.

In other news...

[sonamchauhan]

China today asserted its “indisputable sovereignty” over the landing site surrounding its Chang'e 3 moon probe.

The area under Chinese claim - approximately one lunar hemisphere - has been renamed the 'North China Ocean'. As justification, China noted its long cultural and historical ties to the moon, recently underscored by the arrival of Chang'e 3. China also angrily objected to a US lunar satellite currently orbiting the moon. "It is intolerable", said a Chinese Defense Ministry spokeswoman. "Our national sovereignty is violated during half of each orbit of the US craft". She demanded the United States immediately restrict its satellite to orbit the hemisphere outside of the Chinese claim.

Plans were also announced for a new Chinese heavy-lift spaceship. The first launch - planned for 2018 - will send 240 Chinese astronauts (or 'taikonauts') to the moon, accompanied by several hundred tons of construction equipment. Once on the moon, the taikonauts will launch a massive lunar rock-mining operation designed to provide raw material for new Chinese lunar city. The city (tentatively called "New Kangbashi") will eventually house 202 shopping malls, 2002 security personnel, and 20200 visiting tycoons. It will also serve as operating base for hundreds of Yutu Guàiwù (or 'Moon Rabbit') vehicles. A uniquely Chinese design, the Moon Rabbit is large 2-legged, hopping spacetank. The design takes advantage of the weak lunar gravity to use two 'legs' to propel itself long distances over the lunar surface. This allows the comparatively small Chinese security presence to patrol the large Chinese claim. Equipped with large footpads, each hop of the Moon Rabbit also flattens the lunar surface underfoot. Over time, it is hoped this action will create extensive flattened surfaces, jumpstarting further property development, especially in the highly coveted lunar maria areas.

Treaties prohibiting the weaponization of space also mean that each 'Moon Rabbit' patrol vehicle is unarmed. Instead, it enforces security by simply stomping security threats (or recalcitrant residents) underfoot. The Moon Rabbit is designed to detect the presence of cameras and other digital recording devices nearby. If detected, it can simply hop over protesters blocking its path without loss of face (A design feature developed in response to the Tank Man incident).

Google Translates Differently

[Anonymous Coward]

According to Google, "Guang Han Gong" actually translates into "Gu Ang H by G oh that" .... as we all know Google knows everything!

So the american part of the Moon is named Nevada?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don''t know the Latin for that sorry.

Doesn't seem equal

[Holi]

So we got naming rights after putting a man on the moon, but China gets them for what, dropping a couple pounds of plastic and metal?

Re:Doesn't seem equal

[The Evil Atheist]

There's no "rights". The IAU is not a legal body, it's a scientific body that, among other things, assigns official names so that astronomers have a internationally accepted name by which to refer things so other scientists can also refer to.

I just think...

[Anonymous Coward]

...one should have to LAND, first, before naming the site!

What is Chinese for Silver Millennium?

[Anonymous Coward]

The password is, of course, Muuun Prizzzm Poweerrr MAKE UP!