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Javier Soltero: The Outsider Microsoft Tapped To Reinvent Outlook (windowsitpro.com)

v3rgEz writes: In a wide ranging interview, IT Pro talks with Microsoft's Javier Soltero about his plans to help Redmond get its groove back when it comes to email, walking a fine line between keeping traditional Outlook users (and IT administrators) happy while radically reworking software that hasn't seen a huge shakeup since 2003.

23 of 184 comments (clear)

  1. Re:just go ahead and call it ReInvent by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Funny

    The Magic 8 Ball says: "Outlook not so good."

  2. Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "while radically reworking software that hasn't seen a huge shakeup since 2003."

    Oh yeah, because sane people really want THAT! Particularly if the "huge shakeup" is only being done because the software hasn't had a "huge shakeup" since n number of units of time. I'm sure the new Outlook is going to be great!

    1. Re:Sigh by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If 2013 Outlook is any indication of the direction it's going, it's going to be awful. Even though the basic Outlook application has really only undergone cosmetic changes, 2013 seems to try harder to gloss over and obfuscate parts of the user interface, which I'm sure will result in a usage metrics which show that nobody uses those features they can't find, so let's eliminate them.

      I've made my person peace with Outlook, though, and despite all the things that are awful about it, I find it oddly useful. I dread what I expect will be a masturbatory exercise in visual design which will reduce Outlook to a cell-phone level of feature devolution and touch-friendliness which eliminates its quirky usefulness.

      I also really hate the relentless level of user interface churn for the sake of style and visual design in almost everything. I think a measure of incremental user interface improvement can be made, especially as display sizes and technologies change, but too often UIs change because some new trend hits the world of graphic design. It's completely frustrating as a user and most often doesn't really improve usability in any salient way.

    2. Re:Sigh by chipschap · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You make a good point. A UI that is slick and wonderful may not be especially good in usability. You need to be able to understand it, you need to be able to find things, and it all needs to work with minimal effort. In that regard, I find that simpler is generally better.

      The command line was the ultimate in simplicity, but you couldn't "find" anything --- you had to know the commands (I love the command line, but that isn't the point here). On the other end is multiple ribbons, obscure icons with no text, and multi-layered menus, all with nice bright colors and animation and other things that as often as not, just make it harder to figure out.

      But glitz sells, I suppose.

    3. Re:Sigh by Slick_W1lly · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So.. great. Now this guy can go into the same bin as that dude who pushed systemd. The 'Clusterfuck of Things I didn't want..."

      2003 outlook was the last I actually liked. I hung onto it for as long as I possibly could before being forced to upgrade to.. I dunno.. whatever it is out there now. It had a reasonably nice UI, it was quick and did a bunch of stuff I liked. The UI wasn't splattered all over the place and it had nice bevelled buttons and stuff, instead of the flat bollocks that is the current trend. I mean, I have what.. three choices of 'theme' now? White, 'light grey' and 'dark grey' - none of which are much use in allowing me to distinguish between parts of the interface..

      So.. now I know who to blame. .

    4. Re:Sigh by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My "relentless" comment was meant to be applied generally in the world of computer GUIs, not just Outlook specifically. I would argue that even with Outlook, there were mostly unnecessary changes from 2007->2010 and especially >2013 that were focused on graphic design rather than any kind of usability.

      Microsoft specifically I think deserves dings for their obsessive hiding of features and how-things-work across many products, whether it's making file extensions increasingly hard to display, finding the network interfaces to actually change network settings (thankfully you can still use ncpa.cpl from the run menu).

      The only two significant features I can think that have been added really didn't require much in terms of UI changes -- multiple Exchange accounts (along with improved RPC-HTTPS support) and larger .PST files.

  3. Really? by DanJ_UK · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Outlook isn't the fucking problem, exchange and its bastardised architecture is.

    To this day I cannot fathom why companies would ever roll out a proprietary exchange setup when there are better solutions available, at a significantly lower cost. Solutions that are more reliable, more secure and better supported cross platform.

    --
    - Dan
    1. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To this day I cannot fathom why companies would ever roll out a proprietary exchange setup when there are better solutions available, at a significantly lower cost. Solutions that are more reliable, more secure and better supported cross platform.

      Like?

      And this is the problem. Nobody has ever heard of it. And that's if you can name something that does even a significant fraction of what Exchange does.

      Email? Yes. Calendars, appointments, meetings, events, alerts, and schedules? Yep. Contact organizer? Sure. To-do lists? That too. Instant messaging? With, Lync/Skype For Business, yes, that's actually part of what Outlook/Exchange handle. All of this integrated so your emails go to contacts, your meetings auto-notify everyone and keep track of attendees, your IM's go to the same contacts, and your To-do items get checked off of the Project server and Team Foundation server, as well as cause an update to be posted to Sharepoint? One and done.

      You won't find a replacement for this at any price, especially if you're a FOSS zealot that won't consider for-profit software. You might find a proprietary "replacement" that does some of these things poorly and/or isn't as tightly integrated with other business organization software. But probably not, because Microsoft hasn't been the type of company to just let competition survive. They didn't become a convicted monopoly for nothing, you know.

      As much as everyone hates being at Microsoft's mercy, you have to admit that they do make a damned fine integrated office software stack. Expensive and locked-in, yes. But don't complain that it doesn't work, because that makes you look petty, and more, a liar.

    2. Re:Really? by Chas · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Outlook isn't the fucking problem, exchange and its bastardised architecture is.

      No. Outlook is also a fucking problem.

      The architecture of the data stores is an ongoing cluster-fuck.
      A single-file data file-based data store that's simply allowed to grow into obscene, unstable, performance destroying sizes.
      More-over, if you crash one of the files, your chances of actually recovering anything is somewhere between "Pray for a miracle" and "Just start over".

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    3. Re:Really? by chipschap · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To be fair, there are FOSS solutions that do these things on a local/group basis. There's lots of groupware that provides most of these functions.

      But I do have to admit that Microsoft has the whole stack, if you want to buy into it and pay the price. I don't agree that the individual elements of the stack are anything like best in class, but the integration is definitely there, and it's scalable beyond most FOSS groupware (at least as far as I know the market).

    4. Re:Really? by Nkwe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Outlook isn't the fucking problem, exchange and its bastardised architecture is.

      No. Outlook is also a fucking problem.

      The architecture of the data stores is an ongoing cluster-fuck. A single-file data file-based data store that's simply allowed to grow into obscene, unstable, performance destroying sizes. More-over, if you crash one of the files, your chances of actually recovering anything is somewhere between "Pray for a miracle" and "Just start over".

      When used in a corporate environment (with an Exchange server), the Outlook data store does not grow unbounded. Outlook caches a subset of your mailbox for potential offline use and the bulk of your data sits on the Exchange server. When online you can seamlessly search and access all of your past email; when offline you can access what you have cached. The Exchange server uses a fairly robust database which supports transaction logging and replication, and also has several recovery options if needed.

    5. Re:Really? by CrankyFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      We had Exchange and moved to Google Apps
      1. Email
      2. Calendars
      3. Contacts
      4. To-do lists
      5. IMs
      6. emailcontactscalendar integrations

      If we wanted something like Project or TFS or Sharepoint, that'd be a problem, but aside from those ... I'd say we got pretty much everything we wanted, and it works pretty darn well. We also don't have to admin it.

  4. And...why would you want to do that? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >> keeping traditional Outlook users (and IT administrators) happy while radically reworking software that hasn't seen a huge shakeup since 2003

    And...why would you want to do that? Microsoft Office has basically remained unchanged since the late 1990s and it's still raking in money. Outlook "competitors" like Thunderbird are still dropping like flies and you want to piss off your huge customer base to...what exactly? Follow Marissa down the tech drain?

  5. Re:just go ahead and call it ReInvent by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Please don't. It's hard to think of a more bloated resource hog, far too much for what it is supposed to do, and yet still lacking in basic features in other areas.

    I despise Exchange, all the more because I have been so long forced to administer it (since the Exchange 97 days).

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  6. Outlook's search by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 3, Informative

    The biggest problem with Outlook isn't the UI, it's that it stinks at search. It takes FOREVER to search all your folders if you have any significant amount of email, and what it does find is often not relevant.

    I for one am thankful that my company has moved to GMail for business.

    1. Re:Outlook's search by amorsen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Search in Outlook is a complete joke. It sometimes works if you search for just one word, but as soon as I put two words in, I get so many results that it could just as well show the entire inbox.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  7. Re:And now we know... by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

    yeah really.. I've never seen such a slow GUI on an MS product before. Whatever GUI widget they're grafting over win32 runs like a dog even on 4ghz cpus and powerful gpus.
    1. Scrolling is choppy an interactions have visible latency.
    2. There's too much white space.
    3. The layout is nearly impossible to memorize. What's worse is that it's obviously a kludge in progress: some of the dialogs that haven't been grafted yet hark back to the win32/mfc days, and ironically, they're still nice and quick.

    I don't want my desktop applications to behave like tablet apps. I want full functionality, no wasted space, and lightning fast interfaces. There's no excuse for not having that last one on modern machines.

    I've half considered moving (back) to pegasus mail for personal use on windows.
    http://www.pmail.com/

  8. All latest changes are productivity killers by NotQuiteReal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I recently had the latest and greatest Office 2016 foisted upon me.

    At best everything is harder to see (I mean, what's up with greyed out backgrounds for text boxes in Excel that used to be white? Sure it "looks nicer" but now you have to just "know" you can type there...)

    Moving strongly into the Windows 10 way of doing things, pretty much just means everything you want to do is an extra click or two away... and not obviously labeled.

    As far as Outlook in particular, it acts differently than all other apps for mousing over the minimize/maximize/close buttons - they don't highlight when the window doesn't have focus. If you have the non-gaudy color scheme, that makes it really hard to see.

    Everything in general is harder to see. Come on, this is a "work" app, it is not supposed to be subtle. I doubt anyone is using Outlook because they like the way it looks!

    I guess Microsoft is trying to catch up with Apple in skipping the "affordance" and "signifiers" steps of good design.

    --
    This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
    1. Re:All latest changes are productivity killers by rsborg · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'll add more disagreements with Outlook that I've been complaining about since Mac Outlook 2011

      1) Mac versions *still* can't send in future (i.e., I know someone's in a meeting, I want them to see my mail pop up right as they get back to their desk 30m later without ... waiting) Windows Outlook has this, Mac doesn't.
      2) Just the other day my location bar dropdown stopped working (was curiously right after an update, and yes, I have rebooted since). This just sucks - I want my old meeting rooms and webex fixed URLs handy when I'm booking meetings!
      3) Still no ability (without a hack) to put bulleted lists in email replies. Seriously?!?
      4) No ability to email my calendar availability (again, Win Outlook can do it, Mac OL can't)
      5) Want to search multiple folders? Needs a 2nd click (i.e., I want to find an email either in my send or inbox, but that takes an extra 2 clicks). In Windows, you can default your search preferences.

      --
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  9. Re:just go ahead and call it ReInvent by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The name is all the advice of what to do with it that you need.
    It took about a decade before all that you would have expected in version 1 was going. All the fun of configuration by registry hack, a fifty step bare metal recovery procedure with possible showstoppers at every step and memory leaks that meant a scheduled reboot once a week to avoid the thing freezing up.

    So, to those that say "no other single thing can replace MS Exchange"? MS Exchange itself is a suite of applications so why insist on replacing many with one?

  10. Re:just go ahead and call it ReInvent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Please don't. It's hard to think of a more bloated resource hog, far too much for what it is supposed to do, and yet still lacking in basic features in other areas.

    I despise Exchange, all the more because I have been so long forced to administer it (since the Exchange 97 days).

    As a user, I newer appreciated Exchange+Outlook before I moved to a different company that use Google Apps instead. There might be better alternatives than both of them, but right now I miss Exchange+Outlook so f'ing much.

  11. Oh no by hackertourist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    FTA:

    He pointed to the implementation of âoelikesâ and âoementionsâ in the Outlook clients as examples of changes that he thinks are helpful.

    In a sane world, that alone would disqualify him for the position.

  12. Re:just go ahead and call it ReInvent by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, to those that say "no other single thing can replace MS Exchange"? MS Exchange itself is a suite of applications so why insist on replacing many with one?

    Because one "Suite" that can be installed by clicking next, next, finish (and maybe some checkboxes), and is supported as a unit by the publisher, is whole lot different from 'Hey I cobbled together 50 different things that sort of do something similar but not quite, and good luck getting enterprise support for it, and pray that upgrading one package in that mix doesn't break the entire thing'.
    That's why.