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TPP Signing Ceremony To Take Place In February (freezenet.ca)

Dangerous_Minds writes: New Zealand officials are hoping that the TPP signing ceremony is to take place in February in Auckland, New Zealand. According to the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, it is expected that all 12 countries are going to sign the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). Those 12 countries are Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the U.S., and Vietnam. Note: signing doesn't necessarily make the agreement law, but it is one critical step closer to ratification.

31 of 192 comments (clear)

  1. Well there Liberal supporters? by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You believed ol' Justin Trudeau when he said he wouldn't support it, then flipflopped and said he would, then he wouldn't. Thanks for enabling this shit, if it get's signed all we can do is hope that the SCC tells them to shove it.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re: Well there Liberal supporters? by drsmithy · · Score: 2

      Abbott was a good politician.

      Indeed.

      But he was a deplorable PM and Minister of [whatever]. A coward, a bully and a thug.

    2. Re:Well there Liberal supporters? by wardrich86 · · Score: 2

      Don't blame me, I voted NDP. Trudeau has always been pro-TPP but made some shit claims that "it's good, but needs to be revised"

      Or maybe I'm mistaking that with C51?

  2. Another victory for corporate corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These American imposed laws that extend the power of corporations are making a total mockery of democracy in the countries that haven't yet become US style corporate dictatorships.

    1. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 5, Insightful

      These American imposed laws that extend the power of corporations are making a total mockery of democracy in the countries that haven't yet become US style corporate dictatorships.

      And people wonder why I want an armed population...

      I don't trust government. It can do good, I don't think we could live without any government (that would be equally silly), but I don't trust them either.

    2. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't trust the armed population either. Rebellions ending in a more stable, prosperous and free country have happened - but they are the exception, not the norm.

    3. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

      Pick your poison, you have to put your faith in something, or you'll end up standing for nothing...

    4. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      Even more important - don't sign anything that's secret to the public. This means that there can't be any public scrutiny of the implications that such an agreement results in.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by dbIII · · Score: 2

      I'll raise that to zealous gun owners led by a traitor that sold weapons to the Islamic terrorists Hezbolla (and Iran as well):

      http://nraontherecord.org/oliver-north/

    6. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The armed population thing is a joke.

      If you put your armed american population on one side and your US military forced on the other side, which one wins?

      If second amendment's spirit was followed, the real life USA would resemble grand theft auto much more closely.

    7. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I don't trust the armed population either. Rebellions ending in a more stable, prosperous and free country have happened - but they are the exception, not the norm.

      Paradigm shifts have occurred without rebellions, but they are the exception, not the norm.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by Goose+In+Orbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The only people Governments listen to are lobbyists with deep deep pockets...

    9. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

      The only people Governments listen to are lobbyists with deep deep pockets...

      No lobbying organization has deeper pockets than the populace of the country, together.

      The problem is that the population just does not care enough to bother.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    10. Re: Another victory for corporate corruption by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      The US military, or at least a sizable number of them, would likely have sympathy for a rebellion against tyranny.

    11. Re: Another victory for corporate corruption by dryeo · · Score: 2

      You really think that the military would have sympathy for a leftist socialist rebellion? Because that will be how it will be spun and probably the reality as the rightist at heart have always been pro-government. Just have to look at the history of arms being used against the government, mostly labor movements in the 19th century and the military (often private) won every time.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    12. Re:Another victory for corporate corruption by KeensMustard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And people wonder why I want an armed population...

      Yes, and this is why.

      If having an armed population is meant to prevent abuses (like this one), and abuses like this one keep happening, you have to conclude that the strategy is not working. But gun-o-philes don't seem to be able to see what's directly in front of them.

      The gun-o-philes are complicit in tyranny. Their guns are ineffective against tyranny. But they can't accept that. So they minimise the tyranny constantly and resist/downplay/criticise the efforts of the rest of the populace to halt the slide toward tyranny by other means. By clinging to an idea that doesn't work, they contribute to the outcome they claim so fervently to be against.

    13. Re: Another victory for corporate corruption by rockout · · Score: 2

      The US military, or at least a sizable number of them, would likely have sympathy for a rebellion against tyranny.

      You have no idea what you're talking about, and obviously never served in the US military. As a former member, allow me to inform you: the vast majority of military officers AND enlisted are very pro-law-and-order, and don't take their oath to carry out orders lightly. You're living in the same delirious world as those idiots in Oregon - the "once the rebellion starts, the masses will join us!" fantasy.

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    14. Re: Another victory for corporate corruption by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      You have no idea what you're talking about, and obviously never served in the US military

      I did actually, US Army. MOS was 19-D, Armored Reconnaissance, also called Cavalry Scout. The classic title for it (in its early early days) is a Dragoon. Notice my nickname per chance?

      As a former member, allow me to inform you: the vast majority of military officers AND enlisted are very pro-law-and-order, and don't take their oath to carry out orders lightly.

      It's one thing when you're talking about average hooligans being unruly. Yes, completely agree in that respect. However I really don't think things would stay the same if there were legitimate grievances with the US government. There are, for example, such things as unlawful orders, and it is your duty as a soldier to disobey them.

  3. Re:Get rid of this neoliberal scum! by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How did humankind get into such a sad state of affairs?

    Too many people seem happy to turn over responsibility for their lives to government and just accept being sheep?

  4. Sedition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any American government official who signs the TPP is guilty of sedition as far as I'm concerned. The TPP violates the sovereignty of the US, and has bypassed the will of the people through a quite literal conspiracy.

    I loathe conspiracy theories, and don't subscribe to any of them. This single issue though is in fact a conspiracy to defraud the American people among others, and is a violation of our democracy. It's a conspiracy because it is an agreement that will affect all of us, but has intentionally been kept under wraps. Because the negotiators are acutely aware that if the TPP had been public knowledge for the last several years, there'd be at best another Battle in Seattle type of debacle, and that the people governed by the treaty wouldn't stand for it.

    1. Re:Sedition by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I seriously doubt the average voter will care about it as an issue.

      Sadly the average voter doesn't care because the average voter is an idiot...

      Who neither knows about such things, nor actually wants to learn. Most people are happy to be ignorant and rant at the TV.

    2. Re:Sedition by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

      Any American government official who signs the TPP is guilty of sedition as far as I'm concerned. The TPP violates the sovereignty of the US, and has bypassed the will of the people through a quite literal conspiracy.

      I loathe conspiracy theories, and don't subscribe to any of them. This single issue though is in fact a conspiracy to defraud the American people among others, and is a violation of our democracy. It's a conspiracy because it is an agreement that will affect all of us, but has intentionally been kept under wraps. Because the negotiators are acutely aware that if the TPP had been public knowledge for the last several years, there'd be at best another Battle in Seattle type of debacle, and that the people governed by the treaty wouldn't stand for it.

      Well it's been out in the open now for awhile and hasn't been signed yet and there is no sign of any Battle in Seattle type debacle - or much of anything really.

      Ergo people don't give enough of a shit to bother.

      Not saying they're right, just saying that appears to be the case.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    3. Re:Sedition by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Any American government official who signs the TPP is guilty of sedition as far as I'm concerned. The TPP violates the sovereignty of the US, and has bypassed the will of the people through a quite literal conspiracy.
      I loathe conspiracy theories, and don't subscribe to any of them.

      Except you just espoused one. You don't even know what you're saying. Why don't you go away until you do? The truth is that secret criminal conspiracies are as common as breathing. You feel special because you've opened your eyes to just one of them, but you're still denigrating those who believe in others in the same breath. We can do without you, and in fact, we would be better off without you. Crushing WTO protests and refusing to give valid reasons. WMDs. NIH telling us fat makes you fat. Secret conspiracies to defraud the people are SOP and you're still in denial.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  5. No thanks by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    World Bank suggests Australia's economy would grow by less than 1%.

  6. Re:Get rid of this neoliberal scum! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think it is more along the lines that too many governments allow companies into their ranks and allow them to effectively write their laws for them. It isn't the government that is the problem, it is the corporations who have managed to subvert the will of the people within the government and inserted themselves into it that is the problem.

    And getting rid of the government doesn't get rid of the corporations. On the contrary, many times it just leads to the corporations having more direct control with even less recourse for the person.

    Getting rid of a controlling body many times just leads to another entity filling that vacuum and taking on that roll instead. It is how we end up with black markets and cartels.

  7. And of course, they're signing it in Mordor. by cunina · · Score: 4, Funny

    "In the darkness bind them," indeed.

  8. Welcome to the Corpocracy by MrKaos · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So will you write to the politicians? There is something on I want to watch - I'll do it later.

    Will you discuss it with anyone? No, I'm feeding my face with farce food.

    Will you even ring a politician about it? What were we talking about?

    Face it, for all of the rage no-one will do *anything* at all, just blah blah blah. We had a chance to stop this and now it is here so just keep pointing fingers at everyone but yourself because that will solve the problem.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Welcome to the Corpocracy by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Face it, for all of the rage no-one will do *anything* at all, just blah blah blah. We had a chance to stop this

      [citation needed]

      I suspect that we had no chance to stop this without worldwide armed rebellion. We'll never know, but it's the way to bet. Look around you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Feel free to use my letter by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    Dear Minister

    I wish to voice my opposition to the Trans Pacific Partnership Bill. I ask that you reject the Trans Pacific Partnership until proper time has been given for our citizens to analyse it's effect.

    Considering there are roughly thirty chapters and 6000 pages in this Trade Agreement I would be expecting it to be scrutinised and proper time for the ramifications to be thoughly assessed and not rushed passed the house, considering there is no emergency that it addresses.

    As an important part of a functioning democracy, citizens should be allowed to veiw all documents being presented to the parliment so that the impact on our society can be evaluated. The secrecy that has shoulded this bill over the last few years of it's construction followed by the limited time granted, relative to the amount of pages in the Bill, to allow for such analysis subverts the intention of democratic process.

    As our representatives you are bound to provide 'Responsible Government' to citizens. Passing a Bill that cannot be evaluated is not a form of responsible government, for this reason alone the Bill should be rejected.

    I would like the house to go further and introduce laws, practises or other available legislative instruments that prevent the rushing any legislation into law that has a detremental effect to the country and, that in the event of any emergency legislation passed as law, a mandatory sunset period that has the duration of the government that sponsors the bill.

    The other issues rasied by segments of the TPP leaked on the Internet that effectively give away the effective sovreignty of our nation, through Investor State Dispute Settlements, is disturbing. Chilling effects on the Health, intellectual property and many other things that are nation destroying.

    For these reasons, and many more, I ask you to defeat the TPP passing into law, and enact structures that prevent these kinds of agreements ever being rushed through the House.

    Sincerely

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re:Feel free to use my letter by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 4, Informative
      Dear MrKaos,

      Thank you for taking the time to write to my office. I always appreciate engaged subjects taking a role in the democratic process.

      Please rest assured that this agreement has been properly scrutinized by those who have the proper need to know. Rest assured that TPP is in the best interests of the people who matter.

      We do understand that we have concerns, but we really don't care. Why? Because FUCK YOU, that's why!

      Now shut up and go back to sleep.

      Sincerely,

      The Man

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
  10. This will be a disaster by humptheElephant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just look at what's happening under NAFTA. A Canadian Company (Trans Canada) is suing the US for 15 billion because we stopped the Keystone pipeline (http://www.democracynow.org/2016/1/7/transcanada_sues_the_us_for_15b). This means that a private corporation from a TPP country can sue the US or another trade partner and have it tried by a panel corporate representatives. The amount can be not only the cost of a project, but also the expected profits. For example, with the Keystone lawsuit, the cost of the pipeline is 3 billion and the expected profits 12 billion. So the US taxpayers are on the hook for the 15 billion if TransCanada wins.