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World Bank Says Internet Technology May Widen Inequality (nytimes.com)

HughPickens.com writes: Somini Sengupta writes in the NY Times that a new report from the World Bank concludes that the vast changes wrought by Internet technology have not expanded economic opportunities or improved access to basic public services but stand to widen inequalities and even hasten the hollowing out of middle-class employment. "Digital technologies are spreading rapidly, but digital dividends — growth, jobs and services — have lagged behind," says the bank in a news release announcing the report. "If people have the right skills, digital technology will help them become more efficient and productive, but if the right skills are lacking, you'll end up with a polarized labor market and more inequality," says Uwe Deichmann. Those who are already well-off and well-educated have been able to take advantage of the Internet economy, the report concludes pointedly, but despite the expansion of Internet access, 60 percent of humanity remains offline. According to the report, in developed countries and several large middle-income countries, technology is automating routine jobs, such as factory work, and some white-collar jobs. While some workers benefit, "a large share" of workers get pushed down to lower-paying jobs that cannot be automated. "What we're seeing is not so much a destruction of jobs but a reshuffling of jobs, what economists have been calling a hollowing out of the labor market. You see the share of mid-level jobs shrinking and lower-end jobs increasing."

The report adds that in the developing world digital technologies are not a shortcut to development, though they can accelerate it if used in the right way. "We see a lot of disappointment and wasted investments. It's actually quite shocking how many e-government projects fail," says Deichmann. "While technology can be extremely helpful in many ways, it's not going to help us circumvent the failures of development over the last couple of decades. You still have to get the basics right: education, business climate, and accountability in government."

133 comments

  1. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The same argument could be made for reading.

    1. Re:Bullshit by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The same argument could be made for reading.

      Don't know whether to mod up or reply...absolutely true. Here's the World Bank, creator of debt among people who have no money, arguing that sharing information more freely will widen inequality. Though their logic may be sound if you select your samples very carefully (the richest will get richer), I can't see how the world's poorest having access to history's accumulated knowledge including up to the second latest research, more extensive and easier to access than any pre-internet library that ever was, even if you have to walk a day and wait in line for hours to get access, could be anything but good for the world's poorest people. Sure, people with better access will have more advantage, but that doesn't mean that removing access for all would in any way benefit the least fortunate.

    2. Re:Bullshit by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, but all government is based on the worst edge case scenario. Terrorist attack is a very unlikely event, war on drugs, war on poverty, SS, Medicare, minimum wage, FDIC, FHA, all of these things start by rallying the mob around the least likely edge cases. Scarrying people is always the most politically profitable strategy and it works. Taking the worst edge case scenario and building a policy around it that negatively impacts everyone... No child left behind means that all children will be left behind. Government doing anything to 'help' some small group leads to the worst possible outcome for all.

    3. Re:Bullshit by beh · · Score: 1

      Ever thought that the sharing of information isn't the problem, but other things the Internet enabled?

      Say, you can find qualified people in other countries with lower wages and have them work for you over the Internet - thereby adding downward pressure on the very same jobs in your own country. At the same time, somewhat unsurprisingly, there doesn't seem to be downward pressure on CEO jobs - even though I'd bet you could find qualified MBAs in "cheaper labour force" countries...

    4. Re:Bullshit by sycodon · · Score: 1

      There will always be people to take what they have and run with it.
      There will always be people who look at what they have and blame someone else.

      Whether it's a street vendor selling trinkets or food, or a Steve Job and Woz, someone will move ahead while others will simply mark time.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    5. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then eventually masses in your country will eventually get fed up and take things in their own hands. plenty of things could happen before then. e.g. import duties on outsourced services. guaranteed basic income. companies abroad outsourcing expertise to your country. although with TPP deal reached, any of these seems unlikely.

    6. Re:Bullshit by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      A transnational corporation is just a normal one with a bigger consumer base.

      As such, the heads are atop a much larger organization with commensurate pay increases.

      It is natural "the gap" will widen...even if the average wage stagnates, which it isn't, because many in ppor countries now have non-trivial pay jobs.

      The average wealth continues to climb, as does the average wealth and access to food and products. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    7. Re: Bullshit by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      That mass vaccination and universal education - fucking government eh?

    8. Re: Bullshit by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Vaccination is not based on edge case scenario, as to public education, all it is is propaganda. Education needs to be delivered privately, without government money and agenda. By the way, government 'provided' education is not a sustainable economic model and it is a symptom of a larger problem of government interference, which eventually destroys the economy and is horrible for the society in the long term.

    9. Re:Bullshit by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Ever thought that the sharing of information isn't the problem, but other things the Internet enabled?

      Say, you can find qualified people in other countries with lower wages and have them work for you over the Internet - thereby adding downward pressure on the very same jobs in your own country. At the same time, somewhat unsurprisingly, there doesn't seem to be downward pressure on CEO jobs - even though I'd bet you could find qualified MBAs in "cheaper labour force" countries...

      Seems a narrow view - the jobs are being outsourced because underutilized resources abroad can to them more cost effectively. This benefits the overseas labor pool, bringing their poor up. If it causes temporary unemployment in the outsourcing country, those new unemployed should retrain into employable skills - which they can do much more easily than the people who the jobs got outsourced to. Bringing up incomes in populations that live on less than $3 per person per day does much more to narrow the wealth gap than hanging on to outmoded jobs in first world countries.

    10. Re: Bullshit by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Privatize everything, then we can go back to donkey trails between private estates and market centers.

    11. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like how they mention lower paying jobs that "cannot" be automated. By definition, a lower paying job can be automated, regardless of if it has or hasn't been done yet.

    12. Re:Bullshit by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The internet inherently magnifies one particular divide, the intellectual one. Just look at the pseudo celebrities with fabricated public personalities who routinely crash and burn when they foolishly expose their true intellect to the public on the internet. Sure they can still attract, well, other idiots but for everyone else, just eww. The intellectual divide becomes really obvious on the internet and oh my don't geeks and nerds have fun with it ;).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    13. Re: Bullshit by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      Teaching everyone to read and write offers huge advantages to individuals and society. The private sector would only teach those who could pay.

        I don't understand what you mean by edge cases. Mass vaccination is an obvious public good that would never be done by profit seeking companies.

    14. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We already KILLED those who could not read. At least before the world fell prey of anthropo-eurocentrism Humanism and its impossible ideas of inequality. You DO NOT WANT people opposing technology to leave many more similar children to beat sense on your brain with your own laptop like almost happened yesterday to me. This is actually so OPEN that any illegal functional illiterate Indian or African *THINKS* he has even the RIGHT to even break your electronics if he gets offended by you using it, INSTEAD OF HAVING REVERENTIAL FEAR FOR THE MACHINE AND THE USER, as should be! If ADVANCING technology leaves them behind, they should be left behind and forgotten, not protected unequally, because BESIDES the machines are expected to act as YOUR protection so who will protect you when a bunch of primitives closes hotsposts and places and harasses and steals and what not? This is NYC and it is what is happening HERE.

    15. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truly, I am awaiting the day the next IMBECILE CRETIN comes and interrupts my wifi session and a totally unexpected robot comes out from anywhere on me or in me or on what I have with me and leaves it corpse FROZEN without understanding what broke HIM, but not before I can tell him WHY IT HAPPENED.

  2. All hope is not lost! by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Surely there is hope yet for technological solutionism! Maybe they need VR goggles? Wearables? IoT devices?...Teledildonics? There must be some gadget that can magically allow people to pull themselves up by the bootstraps!

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:All hope is not lost! by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      Surely there is hope yet for technological solutionism! Maybe they need VR goggles? Wearables? IoT devices?...Teledildonics? There must be some gadget that can magically allow people to pull themselves up by the bootstraps!

      If we're talking about The Internet, then clearly it's Bootstrap

    2. Re:All hope is not lost! by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Funny

      >> There must be some gadget that can magically allow people to pull themselves up by the bootstraps!

      I thought that was "one laptop per child." :)

    3. Re:All hope is not lost! by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

      You insensitive clod! Some people don't have bootstraps. Or boots. Or feet.

  3. the trend in the job market is as old as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Industrialisation itself.

  4. And now for something really controversial by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is believed that modern society in the West developed by the upper-middle and upper classes' excess kids effectively outbreeding the lower classes over hundreds of years, resulting in gains in health, IQ and longer time preferences. That's a fusion of nature and nurture reinforcing one another.

    What have we done for the last 2 generations? We've inverted it with the more intelligent having fewer and fewer kids. Now we have an economy where getting a good job increasingly depends on biological factors that are not being selected for in our reproductive habits as they once were, resulting in the virtuous cycle of the previous centuries becoming a vicious feedback cycle.

    1. Re:And now for something really controversial by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've inverted it with the more intelligent having fewer and fewer kids.

      We realized it is more fun to have more disposable income and the freedom to use and enjoy it.

      It's more fun to have a sports car, nice house and toys and freedom to travel, than to be anchored down with a house full or yard apes/rug rats/curtain climbers.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nutria · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is believed

      By whom, and with what evidence?

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't dress up your fascist social philosophy in pseudo-scientific jargon.

    4. Re:And now for something really controversial by Thanshin · · Score: 0

      It is believed that modern society in the West developed by the upper-middle and upper classes' excess kids effectively outbreeding the lower classes over hundreds of years, resulting in gains in health, IQ and longer time preferences.

      - It is believed by whom?
      - What's the relation between upper classes and higher IQ before modern society?

    5. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nutria · · Score: 2

      We realized it is more fun to have more ...

      Unfortunately, fun does not perpetuate a functional society.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    6. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The difficulty with the idiocracy hypothesis is not that the less intelligent outbreed the more intelligent (so you have fewer captains of industry and more rank-and file... the world will survive) it's that the intelligent are having to subsidize an ever increasing amount of the less intelligent.

      Yeah yeah yeah, 1%; that's not the point. From laws to protect idiocy from itself, which end up as hindrances to find better solutions, to intelligence being looked upon as near witchcraft; society is heavily geared towards mediocrity so the pinheads have a fighting chance.

      But it comes at the cost of further development, and especially when the intelligent figure "why bother" to explore new horizons, especially when they have to fight off the idiot hoard as well.

      Regression towards mean is a scary prospect when the lower bound keeps sinking.

    7. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      It is believed

      By whom, and with what evidence?

      Ancient alien theorists?

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    8. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't dress up your fascist social philosophy in pseudo-scientific jargon.

      All you need is to have someone kick your teeth in with a combat boot, and you will
      come around to the correct way of thinking.

      You. Pathetic. Knee-jerk. Faggot.

    9. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good on you for identifying the plot of Idiocracy, but I hope you realize it's just a comedy movie and a great one at that, but it's not really based in science or our understanding of socioeconomic effects on education and reproduction.

      The problem is the rich have access to everything, and the poor have access to very little. Perhaps if we focus on lifting the poor out of poverty and decreasing the financial disparity between the rich and the middle class many of these issues will resolve themselves.

    10. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonono, you see, clearly the GP is inherently more capable and better than poor people, who obviously are stupid (else they would be rich, see?).

      Environment has nothing to do with it, as evidenced by an extremely small number of exceptional outliers from relatively modest means.

    11. Re:And now for something really controversial by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, fun does not perpetuate a functional society.

      No single thing does, but I would argue that the enjoyment of at least a portion of one's time, be it at work or play, is an important element in a functional society.

    12. Re:And now for something really controversial by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I could mostly buy into the idea that this was something of a self-reinforcing process where the people who got into tribal leadership positions initially did so through some genetic advantages in health, strength, and intelligence.

      The initial advantage (probably in hunting) gave them access to superior nutrition, increasing their own survival and increasing the likelihood of having offspring, and offspring that grew larger and healthier.

      As cultures and roles solidified, these people were in a good place to claim leadership based on demonstrated attributes (leading more successful hunts, killing more enemies) as well as possessing some inherent personality traits that gave them more charisma or being able to defeat challengers from within their own ranks.

      Over time this leadership group evolved into an aristocracy, whose superior access to food, shelter, selection of mates (IIRC, there have been cross-cultural studies of beauty that align with physical traits associated with childbearing) likely enabled their children significant advantages, warding off some of the endemic developmental problems of poor nutrition, disease exposure, and so on, in addition to situational advantages -- like being able to gain exposure to learning and teaching versus taking immediate risks (I would imagine being taught how to hunt dangerous game or fight in combat by someone skilled and successful at it would have some survival value versus doing it without much exposure to training).

      I doubt it's a perfect long term system, as eventually the aristocracy can grow sclerotic and actual shelter the weak, in addition to inbreeding promoting genetic defects -- look at hemophilia among the European aristocracy.

      As a side note, I've done some work at an extremely exclusive country club, and I'm always kind of surprised at how healthy and vigorous appearing the rich are. Slim, well-toned, attractive, few signs of any of the dietary-driven obesity of poor people or evidence of the chronic illnesses and development issues.

    13. Re:And now for something really controversial by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What have we done for the last 2 generations? We've inverted it with the more intelligent having fewer and fewer kids.

      Dumb people sometimes have smart kids. We usually don't find out because in the home of the stupid, intelligence is usually maligned and snuffed out instead of encouraged. What we have done for the last two generations is destroy our education system. THAT is what you're seeing the results of now. Well, that and the ongoing growing inequity in wealth. It's driven not by the internet, but by the equally ongoing looting of wealth from developed nations by scum who profit only from the suffering of others. They produce nothing; they simply own everything, because somewhere along the line their side had more guns and used 'em. Now they talk shit about being job creators when their actual goal is to eliminate every possible job as a threat to the bottom line. The People are the job creators, but only when they have something to offer in exchange for work.

      The ongoing decline of western society is due to the ongoing theft of wealth from the workers by the leaders.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nutria · · Score: 1

      the enjoyment of at least a portion of one's time, be it at work or play, is an important element in a functional society.

      While true, that's not what GP wrote.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    15. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you want a combat boot up the ass instead.

    16. Re: And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. That's why we have the killing fields and the human remains pits.

    17. Re:And now for something really controversial by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, fun does not perpetuate a functional society.

      The real problem here is that society and the economy is based on infinite growth and consumption. That's about as real as a pastafarian.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    18. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nutria · · Score: 1

      The real problem here is that society and the economy is based on infinite growth and consumption.

      And yet the alternatives are either as moonbeam unrealistic ("true" socialism) as bitcoins, or too horrible to consider (completely nuking high density countries like China, India, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Mexico).

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    19. Re:And now for something really controversial by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, fun does not perpetuate a functional society.

      And this should concern me why....?

      It will be functional till my days are over...and after that, what do I care?

      I'll be dead.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    20. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing you meant "horde" of idiots.

    21. Re:And now for something really controversial by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      Not sure I follow either argument. If realistic constraints are put into economic models and upon society, then a realistic expectation can be set for the future. However, people in general may not appreciate the implications of such models because, as you already suspect, forces will push society to a more socialistic version than what we are today. The entire allowance concept is likely to become reality, unless you're particularly craving the dystopian futures enshrined in movies such as BladeRunner, Elysium, District 9, or even Judge Dredd or Total Recall where the masses subsist like animals. Like it or not, the results of robots taking over more and more jobs will be less and less work for a rather large percentage of the work force. When robots start fixing robots, there will be a large crash in jobs. I do not believe Joe/Jane Sixpack will be able to adept to this new economy, and even if they could, there won't be anything for them to do. Note that I don't think this is limited to Joe/Jane Sixpack either, as robots are already starting to perform surgery, and I suspect that the surgeon will become redundant for standard procedures within our lifetimes. Even actors will likely become redundant with computer models replacing them. I give us about 30 years to figure out how to handle the results of this inevitable future.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    22. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Proponents of the second option are merely perpetuating the current problem "get rid of them so we can move into their territory and continue to grow!"

    23. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should add 'murica to that list because its population way out consumers more than its share of resiurces.

    24. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is believed that modern society in the West developed by the upper-middle and upper classes' excess kids effectively outbreeding the lower classes over hundreds of years, resulting in gains in health, IQ and longer time preferences.

      Uh, yea, no. Even a cursory look in time has shown consistently that "excess kids" were most often produced on farms as labor since until the last ~200 years the vast, vast majority of people were farmers. Then as agriculture was replaced by machinery, people flocked to the cities. There has been a cultural and economic war in which "new money" dynasties formed, but the vast majority of people in cities still remained in the middle or lower classes (it's a general property of how capitalism works*).

      Honestly, were's the Pasteur Dynasty by your logic? Or the many children of Einstein? Right, no. The only way your suggestion would actually have played out is if 50% (or so) of the population would have had near zero kids and the rest heavily multiplied to fill the void, over multiple generations. Must suck to realize that, instead, human intelligence is a vastly spread resource that's independent of class and for which in a mobile environment, which is in fact what the Enlightenment and later Democracies supported by not pushing for class warfare (against the poor) allowed memes to be created and then spread to the most capable, regardless of their "station of birth".

      * Vertical and horizontal integration along with economy of scale means established companies have a margin of incompetence while still making a higher profit at a lower per unit cost. It's why long-term, egregious incompetence or generally sufficiently low barrier of entry for the lack of integration are usually what allows startups to succeed in a meaningful way.

    25. Re:And now for something really controversial by avandesande · · Score: 1

      The core problem is that our financial system is predicated on this kind of growth- that is what needs to be reworked.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    26. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nutria · · Score: 1

      that is what needs to be reworked.

      Better minds than your's have tried. And failed spectacularly.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    27. Re:And now for something really controversial by chihowa · · Score: 2

      Your theory might be more compelling if extreme wealth, income, or any other proxy for appreciation by society had much of a correlation with intelligence. "Captains of industry" have never really been known for their vast intelligence (except possibly in financial areas), but are instead characterized by their charisma, tenacity, or ruthlessness. The scientists, engineers, and thinkers are typically middle class and would be lumped into your rank-and-file category.

      The intelligent are having to subsidize the unintelligent that dominate both the upper and lower classes (and the middle, too). The people who change our world through massive advances in our understanding of the universe are already living on a pittance while our society rewards (and idolizes) the ones who are most talented as swindling others.

      Keeping up future development while keeping the ignorant hordes fed is pretty cheap compared to doing so while trying to sate the greed of the ignorant aristocracy.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    28. Re:And now for something really controversial by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Not sure what the solution is but I think lack of will is a large part of the issue.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    29. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, we're all glad you didn't procreate (not that you had much choice in the matter).

    30. Re:And now for something really controversial by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      It is believed that modern society in the West developed by the upper-middle and upper classes' excess kids effectively outbreeding the lower classes over hundreds of years, resulting in gains in health, IQ and longer time preferences.

      [citation needed]

      The rich always want to believe they're rich because they're genetically superior to everyone else. I've never seen a shred of evidence it's actually true.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    31. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Son_Also_Rises_%28book%29

    32. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. There was never a point in human history where the wealthy had more children than the poor. It has always been the other way around. Wealth is, and has always been, the best form of birth control.

      The wealthy also tend to be the best educated, so the fact that more intelligent people breed less may be a coincidence of wealth, or it may be a factor undo itself (the smart you are the harder it is to find rapport with others (smaller pool)).

      But this is nothing new. It is how humans have always worked.

    33. Re:And now for something really controversial by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Where I live, which is a central city in a metro area, the public schools seem just fine. I don't know about schools wherever it is that you live, but they are certainly not uniformly bad. We're not destroying the educational system. When my father was young, people frequently didn't finish high school, for one reason or other, so high school graduates were generally pretty smart to begin with. When almost everyone graduates, high school graduates as a group will seem a lot less competent. We're seeing the same thing happen with colleges today.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is believed that modern society in the West developed by the upper-middle and upper classes' excess kids effectively outbreeding the lower classes over hundreds of years, resulting in gains in health, IQ and longer time preferences. That's a fusion of nature and nurture reinforcing one another.

      What have we done for the last 2 generations? We've inverted it with the more intelligent having fewer and fewer kids. Now we have an economy where getting a good job increasingly depends on biological factors that are not being selected for in our reproductive habits as they once were, resulting in the virtuous cycle of the previous centuries becoming a vicious feedback cycle.

      No, it is believed that better nutrition, better healthcare, and better education led to gains in health and IQ.

    35. Re:And now for something really controversial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hole in this theory is that in recent history there has been a fair degree of class mobility. Lower class individuals almost always moved up. The lower class didn't necessarily decrease much in numbers year over year, but its membership changed. This mobility has been declining in the last couple decades. Where there used to be paths out of the lower class, they are becoming less and less attainable. Now it's more often the same people stuck there year after year.

    36. Re:And now for something really controversial by gweihir · · Score: 1

      It is believed

      By whom, and with what evidence?

      For example, the fascists running the 3rd Reich claimed things pretty much like this. I think that makes the claim highly suspect.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    37. Re:And now for something really controversial by Nutria · · Score: 1

      The fascists running the 3rd Reich also claimed that fresh air and vigorous physical activity were good for you.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    38. Re:And now for something really controversial by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Well, everybody knows this is untrue, so there.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  5. E-Government Failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's actually quite shocking how many e-government projects fail

    It's obvious: the current e-government projects demand sustained and high infrastructure costs allocated usually to the citizens directly or via taxes. The combination of efficient tax collection and high average income is not so common in the wider world. For the rest of the world, the basic building blocks of the projects should be redesigned, which is something the technology companies involved surely resist to their death.

  6. My observations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take this for what it's worth (I'm just one person), but as a programmer, all we're doing really is taking information in, analyzing it, and spitting it back out in a different form most of the time. That's good for logistics, banking, insurance, and government program analysis. However, how many people could take what we do and apply it to something like farming, set up robotics to do things, etc? I'm currently taking a basic electrical certification - I still have a huge lack of mechanics aptitude to deal with there too. I'm eyeing machine learning nanodegrees as well. The problem is, we're mostly helping a small percentage of people maximize their own wealth, and this article is right, it's not trickling down.

    1. Re:My observations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Farming in the industrial world is a science, and is in fact the origin of most of the fancy algorithms used in machine learning - look up R.A. Fisher.

  7. Need to download videos while using Tor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    What you should try is:

    youtube-dl

    http://rg3.github.com/youtube-...

    A lot of people post here [at the Official Tor Blog] saying with each new TBB release, "Flash still doesn't work!" No kidding? We don't know that already?

    Check youtube-dl's list of supported sites at their website. You don't need a browser plugin/addon/extension for this.

    I don't know if torify/torsocks is included in the TBB*, but in TAILS I run at the command line (after downloading youtube-dl and a quick verify of the md5/sha1 or sha256 checksums):

    chmod a+rx youtube-dl

    ^ the chmod command only once, then:

    torsocks ./youtube-dl URLtovideoorpagewithvideo

    Easy. There are other options such as the "User Agent" you may wish to use.

    Again, if you use TBB instead of TAILS, programs like youtube-dl may need an additional option, the website for youtube-dl explains it very well.

  8. Using the excess of workforce by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem now is that the brilliant minds that create entirely new occupations mostly focus that creativity on occupations that are directly dependent on the latest technology. This is natural, as where would you find new occupations easier than in new technologies?

    However, we need a brilliant mind that finds new occupations that, while using the new technologies, don't depend on them. We need someone to find a way to use the excess workforce created by automatisation in such a way as to not require from that workforce the very fact that made it replaceable by automatisation.

    The question that needs to be answered isn't "what new jobs are created by the new technological environnement" as the answer to that will make you fight for workers with every other innovator.

    The question is "what new jobs can be done by those who the technological environnement made superfluous." So, essentially, what can I do with a million people whose previous occupation is automatisable?

    I believe those new jobs will come in the form of "computer assisted individual aimed art.", like, for example, "painting pretty environnements and props for VR semi-custom games" or "supporting actors in personal movies in which the customer is the protagonist"

    1. Re:Using the excess of workforce by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      So you're saying: we need more Melinda Gates in the world, driving technology (not to mention capital) toward humanitarian projects instead of, or at least in addition to, greater concentration of wealth.

    2. Re:Using the excess of workforce by Thanshin · · Score: 2

      Not humanitarian projects.

      I believe the objective must be fundamentally self-serving for the process of excess workforce employment.

    3. Re:Using the excess of workforce by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Not humanitarian projects.

      I believe the objective must be fundamentally self-serving for the process of excess workforce employment.

      Some of the largest religions in the world believe that helping others _is_ helping (serving) yourself, the Buddhists are beginning to collect objective neuroscience that backs up their beliefs.

  9. no spirit no life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    completely uncomplicated

  10. Myopic by lazarus · · Score: 1

    The problem is that for many there is a complete lack of a social safety net and adequate programs to help them get to where they need to to become productive members of society. We need good social programs and the legalization and legislation of recreational drugs. If you do the latter first you'll have the money for the former.

    Of course this requires us to get our collective heads out of our asses, so it probably won't happen. Blaming Internet technologies is not seeing the big picture.

    --
    I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
    1. Re:Myopic by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I think every conformist boomer knew at least one "layabout" who chose the path of recreational drugs and/or living off of the social safety net, and they despise those people for the fun they had in their youth, while the conformist was busting their ass working 3 jobs to put themselves through school, walking uphill in the snow both ways to and from work and school, and now they'll be damned if they do anything to let other people have that lifestyle that they missed the opportunity to enjoy, or even try, because it's just not fair for their broken down old self to have to see other people having fun that they never will.

    2. Re:Myopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Lack of social safety net? We have way too much net. There is so much safety net that people who are in the net can't get out because what they get is more then what they get if they try to get out.

      I have seen people get a job, and ask to work less hours because they will lose government handouts. They make x amount, they then lose housing assistance and other assistance. The safety net is what traps people in poverty for most.

    3. Re:Myopic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lack of a social safety net and ...

      Maybe, but for me it was exactly this that motivated me starting literally when I was a small kid, maybe 7 or 8, and looked around me and decided I didn't want to live like the people around me. I could probably double most people's wealth in a few years if they gave me control of their lives and did exactly what I told them (ie avoid poor life choices). This information is abundant and freely available for anyone who seriously wants to know. To paraphrase Tolstoy, all rich people are alike, all poor people are poor in their own way. I also have a friend since the fourth grade who wanted to be a banker. He was poor too, even more than me plus he didn't speak English.

      Anyway, he started reading books on money (in grade school), coming to school everyday in a tie. I remember everybody made fun of him constantly. He never became a banker (lost interest), but has become quite wealthy in business. I'm sure if either of us had safety nets (his parents ere against them based on their experiences in the country they came from), we would not be where we are today. Disagree if you want, but I'm high enough I don't care.

  11. Re:Hoarding wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A lot of threats from a guy who spends his day playing WoW and facebooking on his Apple phone.

    You'd never rise up because (a) you have it too good (b) you're easily manipulated by media (c) you're fundamentally lazy

  12. Just look at China by jonsmirl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    China is the top country for poor people moving into the middle class. A lot of that movement is from millions of people setting up mom and pop shops. Cell phones are very important to the functioning of this segment of the market and cell phone are a window into the Internet. So I'd say they have it backwards. They are focusing on the small number of tech lottery winners and ignoring the major improvement cell phones has had on ordinary people's lives.

    1. Re:Just look at China by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Informative

      China is the top country for poor people moving into the middle class. A lot of that movement is from millions of people setting up mom and pop shops.

      It USED to be that way in the US too....but of late, between Federal, State and Local regulations, red tape and taxes, it is damned hard to start up, much less run a small business these days. So many of the rules and all, are easy for a large corporation to handle, they can dedicate whole departments to the regulatory paperwork and tax payment schedules.

      But it is a bit cryptic and confusing to the common person, who would be better served spending more of their time grooming and growing their business and business processes.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Just look at China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Big" tech is becoming more expensive, but at the same time consumer tech is becoming cheaper.
      You can get a phone or tablet that does an awful lot of what a PC was needed for 10 years ago, you can get netbooks or cheap PCs that are OK.

      You may need to spend billions to compete in the super-computer segment, or to build out data centre infrastructure, but access even to this "big" tech is now unparalleled thanks to the likes of EC2.

      We're in the realm of doing hardware design and simulation at home! You won't be competing with nVidia or Intel, but you can design a chip at home, ask questions on the internet, and simulate it on a cheap FPGA all from the comfort of your own home!
      Hardware design and testing at home - you couldn't do that 20 years ago.

    3. Re:Just look at China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't sound like you own a small business because even in California it is quite easy to run an LLC. What red tape is stopping you from forming an LLC? I can have setup in 20 minutes through LegalZoom. Taxes? I was a 1099 and Turbotax handled it just fine. I got to write-off a ton of expenses too!

      There are some regulations which make tasks harder, for the most part this is a good thing. If you are making a product and that has toxic byproducts you better have a plan to deal with the waste, I'll be damned if my tax dollars are going to fund your toxic manufacturing process.

      Unfortunately that is exactly what a lot of my tax dollars go towards. Toxic not referring just to pollution but also job loss due to outsourcing and other cuts made to better serve the almighty dollar.

    4. Re:Just look at China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Large companies are subject to additional regulation and paperwork probably everywhere (on this planet). The "mom and pop" shops are likely not limited liability entities for the main owners and may or may not be such for the investors. Small companies should use a book keeping company for government reporting and taxes anyway in order to be able to concentrate on the business.

    5. Re:Just look at China by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      regulations, red tape and taxes, it is damned hard to start up [small biz]

      Examples?

      The few "legitimate" examples I've seen were big companies trying to keep small ones out of their turf via bogus safety regulations. I's not "socialists" doing it, but crony capitalists. (Which also exist in China, by the way.)

    6. Re:Just look at China by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Last time I checked, about 80% of US businesses failed in the first five years.

      This is great. This means we're giving people the ability to start new businesses, even if they aren't promising. We can't tell which businesses will thrive and which won't, so as a society we start a lot of them and see who's standing later.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    7. Re:Just look at China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly right. Businesses want as little competition as possible, so they seek legislative barriers to entry for competitors. The more red-tape, the less competition, the higher the margins.

  13. Women, children, and minorities affected most? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would be par for the course.

  14. Re: Hoarding wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ACKSHUALLY it's an android phone

  15. Central Banks Responsible for this by trout007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I worked in automation equipment for many years. Companies would typically come to use when they needed to expand capacity. When we would work up a quote we would look at their current process and come up with several options from very simple conveying system with manual tool stations for the operators to fully automated systems. Obviously there was a huge capital cost difference between these options. Two big factors that went into the recommendation were the labor rates and interest rates. The companies were looking for a specific return on investment. In a free market when interest rates are low and labor rates are high due to low unemployment and lots of savings it is better to automate as the interest on capital costs are low. When the interest rates are high and labor rates are low due to high unemployment and low savings it is much better to hire people and go with manual stations. This is as it should be and would lead to sustained growth.

    But when the Central Banks lower interest rates way below the market rates it makes automation cheap no matter what is going on in the economy. This is the situation we are in. It is cheaper to automate even though labor rates are low and there is low workplace participation. Allow rates to return to their market levels and this will change and we can go back to sustainable growth. Of course we won't do this because it would hurt the Wall St. Banks and politicians pocketbooks.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    1. Re:Central Banks Responsible for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Problem with your suggestion as I fear is that at some point the cost of replacing human will be so low it won't matter at all. Right now automation requires capital investment, in the future all automation may be so cheap it will cost less than on year salary for a worker to replace him. At those levels it simply wont matter what interest rate you have.

    2. Re:Central Banks Responsible for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Allow rates to return to their market levels and this will change and we can go back to sustainable growth. Of course we won't do this because it would hurt the Wall St. Banks and politicians pocketbooks.

      It seems you aren't up-to-date on market news. The Fed decided to raise interest rates for the first time in almost a decade last month, and may decide to raise them several more times this year if the economy remains strong.

    3. Re:Central Banks Responsible for this by trout007 · · Score: 1

      Still waaaaaaaay below the market rate.

      --
      I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    4. Re:Central Banks Responsible for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That consulting view is wrong and signals bias - only if the firm must take a loan to finance capital purchases does the interest rate even matter to them. The decision is actually made based on accounting whether the reduction in taxable income from paying wages is a better offset than the depreciation for the automation equipment.

  16. Well if the world bank says it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It must mean exactly the opposite. EG "The internet makes the bars and door of their guilded cage visible."

  17. Enablers always widen inequality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Anytime you provide society with a productive enabler, those who are more eager to build wealth will use it to, you guessed it, build wealth. The lazy of society will not use it to build wealth.

    There are always people who are more willing to work, more willing to produce, and more eager to build wealth, than other people. This is what so-called social scientists do not understand about human nature. People are not all the same, and the only way to make them so is to DISABLE the eager beavers (which are the vast minority of people).

    It is easier to prohibit someone being productive than it is to force someone to be productive. Enforcing a policy of equal poverty (except for the ruling elite, of course) has been the goal of the leftist ruling elite since the dawn of human civilization.

    1. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by sinij · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is Utopian meritocratic feel-good outlook. I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, human condition gets in the way. Productive enables don't generally get rich, instead entrenched and corrupt power brokers do. Look at US in the last 50 years, less than a dozen of 'productive enablers' really made it, but metric f-ton of leeches golden parachuted into ridiculous wealth.

    2. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >willing to work
      >build wealth

      Keep pretending this is where money comes from. Keep pretending poverty and hard work are exclusive. Keep pretending rich and lazy are exclusive.

    3. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical communist claptrap. Somebody out there is buying hundreds of millions of cars and phones. Own stock. It will change your outlook.

    4. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at US in the last 50 years, less than a dozen of 'productive enablers' really made it, but metric f-ton of leeches golden parachuted into ridiculous wealth.

      "Facts" you pull out of your ass. Of course, your misunderstanding of the US economy and its rewards is likely rooted in your ignorance of what a "productive enabler" actually is. Productive enablers are generally not Silicon Valley types who invent a new gadget, it's people who figure out new business processes, better employee training, better marketing, better supply changes, better forms of contracts. It's all the cost cutting people with your political leanings hate, but that actually make life better for Americans.

    5. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by dryeo · · Score: 1

      So the guy working three jobs to pay his bills is lazy and the guy spending a couple of hours on the phone to his stockbroker and his pet politicians is productive?

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    6. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by sinij · · Score: 1

      Absolute hogwash.

      Cost cutting people, the ones that outsource jobs to meet bonus goals, are not making life better for anyone but themselves. They are social and business equivalent of dumping toxic waste into a river.

    7. Re:Enablers always widen inequality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Own stock. It will change your outlook.

      It will only demonstrate the typical stockholder how little power one has in the hierarchy of ownership. Then again, perhaps the dysfunction of the labor market should not equate to "metric f-ton of leeches golden parachuted into ridiculous wealth." Let the employer be ware.

  18. damn socalist bankers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    allways whinning about inequality from the top of the money tree.

  19. Re:Hoarding wealth by pecosdave · · Score: 0

    "Hoarding" is not the problem.

    The problem is the newly generated "wealth" due to inflation goes to those that are already hoarding it - that money in a way is worth more than ours because economic inflation doesn't happen until they start spending, the value of those dollars doesn't go down until after they are spent. These people are always increasing in dollars "hoarded" even if they are spending - and spending it hurts the rest of us.

    The solution is to stop printing more, starve them into loss mode.

    The game is rigged.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  20. Re:Hoarding wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A lot of threats from a guy who spends his day playing WoW and facebooking on his Apple phone.

    You'd never rise up because (a) you have it too good (b) you're easily manipulated by media (c) you're fundamentally lazy

    Ad hominem attacks are no way to go through life son...

  21. Interesting, but I'm not buying that at face value by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    It is believed that modern society in the West developed by the upper-middle and upper classes' excess kids effectively outbreeding the lower classes over hundreds of years, resulting in gains in health, IQ and longer time preferences. That's a fusion of nature and nurture reinforcing one another. ...

    Interesting, but I'm not buying that at face value.

    First of all, it's the working/lower class that has the most children throughout most of human history. Only a lot died early, while others developed pathogen resistance which led to the ancient population of the americas dying out (google "Guns, Germs and Steel").

    Second of all, there is the effect called "Wohlstandsverwahrlosung" in German which roughly translates to "Neglect/deterioration by wealth". In short it describes the phenomenon that wealth does not automatically mean better education or better childhood - it also can mean the opposite. A rich kid might be good off because he went to a high-profile school and has a high rank in current society, but a poor kid might have had kind parents and self-taught skills that the rich kid totally lacks. A rich kid can also experience neglect at the same rate as a poor kid. Under circumstances even more so, if the parents rather by the kid a new toy that dealing with it.

    Another point against your case: History is filled with geniuses that lived as bums, didn't get a girl (or themselves were a girl and thus rarely got acknowleged at all) or even children and, once they died, are recognised as ultimate geniuses in their field. Van Gogh, by just about all measures, was a miserable whiny and stuborn bum in his lifetime. Today he's one of the greatest painters that ever existed. He did not get the chance to have children. Leonardo Da Vinci is somebody simular, all though he was somewhat respected.

    Likewise I'm sure there's a notable amount of really intelligent people around who have no interest in taking part in society. Since they're intelligent, they can live like a king while generally regarded as slackers or dropouts. Those types used to be called "Stoics" in ancient Greece (from "Stoa" - "Porch" as in "Sitting on the porch all day and discussing life"). Today they're called "the new rich" or "digital nomads" or "bohemians". Example: I work part-time. Why? Because I'm smart enough to make a living with that amount of work. The rest of the day I spend lying around, reading books, having endless philosophical discussions with friends, cooking, pondering my digital-nomad ambitions, fiddling with FOSS, doing Yoga, dancing Tango and occasionally boneing a hot cutie I picked up at one of the two latter activities :-) . A near perfect life, if you ask me. ... I guess you could count me in on the Stoic department.

    Likewise again, the is a solid amount of notably dumb people and dimwits with wealth and "upperclass" rank wandering about, simply because they don't think to hard and just do and/or deliver what's in demand. Or aren't smart enough to exit the hamster-wheel.

    Bottom line: While your conclusion is worth considering, I don't think it's the only valid one, as it has quite a few holes in it.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  22. they are right! by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    The end of communism, better education, and increasing use of technology all widen inequality. They also make people richer. In free, industrial societies, increasing inequality correlates with overall increase in wealth; and while groups benefit disproportionately, everybody still benefits.

    1. Re:they are right! by dryeo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For now. How would things be in eg America if the government had to balance its budget? Probably be done through extreme austerity and all those Walmart workers would suddenly have a hell of a time making ends meet without government help.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    2. Re:they are right! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Median household income in constant dollars has been fairly steady for quite a few years now, while productivity went up. In other words, inequality of wealth in the US means that relatively few people benefit when we become wealthier. If most people were getting better off, there wouldn't be as much dissatisfaction with people getting better off faster.

      Education should reduce inequality, by giving everyone a good start in life.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:they are right! by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      For now. How would things be in eg America if the government had to balance its budget?

      EU members are forced to balance their budgets, and countries like Ireland and Germany have improved their economies as a result. Countries like Greece and Spain are suffering not because they are forced to balance their budgets, but because they didn't balance their budgets soon enough.

      Probably be done through extreme austerity

      No, it could simply be done by cutting government programs back to the levels of a couple of decades ago, cutting the military, and getting rid of all those "stimulus programs", which are really just crony capitalist handouts.

      and all those Walmart workers would suddenly have a hell of a time making ends meet without government help.

      So you are saying that you favor government subsidizing Walmart workers? Or what?

    4. Re:they are right! by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Median household income in constant dollars has been fairly steady for quite a few years now, while productivity went up.

      That is literally true, although you seem to have no understanding what it actually means.

      In other words, inequality of wealth in the US means that relatively few people benefit when we become wealthier

      That's nonsense in so many ways. First of all, you compare median household income to average productivity. And a stagnating median doesn't mean that "relatively few people benefit"; in fact, we know who has benefited, namely a substantial part of the middle class has increased its incomes significantly, and the way the median works, that can happen without any decrease in the incomes of people below the median. In addition, household demographics have changed dramatically, so comparing "household incomes" over time is meaningless, and "constant dollars" is likewise a meaningless comparison of "benefit", since even in constant dollars, the "same" amount of money buys much better stuff today than it did a few decades ago. And to the degree that incomes haven't grown as much as they should, that's largely the fault of government redistribution and regulation.

      Education should reduce inequality, by giving everyone a good start in life.

      Quite the opposite. There is a wide range of genetic potentials people inherit from their parents. When education is limited, people with good genetic potential don't have much opportunity to advance much beyond people with much less potential. As education and job opportunities increase, people more and more realize their full potential, and since that potential has a very wide spread, inequality increases.

      Why is it that people readily accept genetic differences when it comes to height or weight or aptitude for sports, but then assume that with the right education, everybody can be a Steve Jobs or Thomas Edison? Do you also think that with the right education you can turn a Danny Devito into a LeBron James?

    5. Re:they are right! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You seem to feel that the median household income can stay steady, but not be bad because it mixes some things up. However, if the median is staying the same, at least half the people aren't benefiting no matter how you define it. That's not a good situation to be in. You're also not looking at the total cost of living, since things like food and shelter go up. My current house is a lot better than the one I grew up in, but what really matters is where the rent on an X-bedroom apartment is going. Sure, if I wanted to spend the $2.5K my first computer cost, I'd get a lot better one now, and I'm not figuring constant dollars, but I don't spend that much on computers any more, and that's why it's relatively unimportant what computer economics do.

      The point of giving everyone a good start in life is to give everyone a solid shot at success. Some will succeed, and some won't, depending on things like luck and willingness to work and natural talent. However, right now we take some kids and keep them in poverty without real hope of getting rich. Their talent and such don't really matter, because they'll never get a chance to use them. If we put them in the same income distribution as other kids, they'll be much closer to the average (and that will indeed vary, sometimes wildly) and hence inequality is increased.

      However, inequality per se isn't necessarily bad. Poverty is bad. Corruption of the political process is bad. Some people not having the same chance to succeed as other people is bad.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re:they are right! by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      However, if the median is staying the same, at least half the people aren't benefiting no matter how you define it.

      No, that is mathematically false. The median can stay the same even if almost everybody's income increases significantly.

      You seem to feel that the median household income can stay steady, but not be bad because it mixes some things up.

      I don't "feel" anything about the median, I'm simply saying that your statement is mathematically false. But your error in understanding the median is only one of your errors, and a comparatively minor one compared to the others.

      Sure, if I wanted to spend the $2.5K my first computer cost, I'd get a lot better one now, and I'm not figuring constant dollars, but I don't spend that much on computers any more, and that's why it's relatively unimportant what computer economics do.

      The fact that a $500 computer dollar will suffice now where you used to pay $2500 means that you have $2000 extra dollars to spend on other stuff; that's in addition to the fact that the $500 computer is still a couple of orders of magnitude more powerful than the $2500 computer used to be.

      My current house is a lot better than the one I grew up in, but what really matters is where the rent on an X-bedroom apartment is going.

      I assume what you are trying to get at is that the minimum cost of having any kind of dwelling hasn't gone down the same way costs for computers have gone down. The same is true for cars, airline tickets, and education. The reason for that isn't that evil billionaires are hogging all the money, it's that government mandates amount to setting a minimum price for those things. That is, not only is the entry-level house you can buy today bigger and safer than the one you might have bought 50 years ago, government has taken away the option of buying the same house you would have bought 50 years ago, which would be much cheaper today.

      The point of giving everyone a good start in life is to give everyone a solid shot at success. However, right now we take some kids and keep them in poverty without real hope of getting rich. Some people not having the same chance to succeed as other people is bad.

      You're confusing cause and effect. Whether kids get a good start in life depends primarily on the parents. First, it depends on the environment parents create for their children and what they teach them. But it also depends on parents delaying having kids until they are economically capable to provide for them. Parents that have kids without planning for them or being ready for them will give them a bad start, and, generally, no amount of money you give them is going to change that. Economically, if you subsidize single parenthood, premature parenthood, joblessness or minimum wage jobs, you simply get more of that. And that's exactly what decades of failed anti-poverty programs and massive increases in spending on education in the US have shown that. Government spending does not transform people into better people, it doesn't give them a short term boost to get out of some temporary problems, it transforms them into long term, inter-generational dependents. To put this into perspective, my parents started out dirt poor, and I grew up (outside the US) far below a US middle class income, yet I probably get a "better start" than most Americans. Giving kids a good start is simply not a question of money.

      However, inequality per se isn't necessarily bad. Poverty is bad.

      Poverty comes in two measures: relative and absolute. The US has pretty much eliminated absolute poverty. Relative poverty, on the other hand, can never be eliminated; it's a mathematical impossibility: there is always going to be a bottom 25% and a top 1%.

      Corruption of the political process is bad.

  23. And of course the obvious solution... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Increase taxes on anyone who makes above median wages, and have the World Bank redistribute that tax income to those earning below the median. For a cut off the top, of course - we wouldn't want our "altruistic" financial overlords to suffer for their enlightened actions!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:And of course the obvious solution... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      As one who makes a lot more than the median, I'm fine with that. Just sayin'.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    2. Re:And of course the obvious solution... by jonsmirl · · Score: 1

      Be careful what you wish for.....

      The median worldwide per-capita household income is $2,920,

      http://www.gallup.com/poll/166...

  24. You can't "solve" poverty by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1, Insightful

    You will NEVER solve poverty, as long as poverty is defined as being in the bottom quintile of income, as most Governments and NGOs typically do. You'll ALWAYS have someone at the bottom 20% - and thus always have "poverty". Why? It's a great way to grow Government, increase Government's own reach and power (as long as they're the ones dispensing the largesse), and have something to distract a goodly portion of the remaining 80%.

    As far as access to everything, the rich can buy access if they want, but have to use their own resources to do so; the poor have access to anything the Government chooses to give to them, paid for by those same rich. Note that most of the Government poverty programs, and even Government retiree programs, are means tested. Meaning you cannot have access if you're not poor.

    There's a definite benefit to Government maintaining the status quo, keeping a large section of the population dependent, and fomenting class warfare. It enhances Government itself, allows Government to claim ever-larger chunks of power "for the benefit of others", and generally enrich those who have chosen to become career bureaucrats. After all - who benefits from lobbyist trips, from very well funded retirement pensions, and big "consulting" payoffs from private enterprise? Those in Government who keep the system rigged.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:You can't "solve" poverty by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If that was the definition of poverty, the poverty rate would remain fixed at 20%. It isn't. Therefore, you must be wrong about the definition, and we can reduce poverty a lot by application of money.

      Is there a reason why anti-poverty programs should not be means-tested? While I wouldn't object to another thousand a month or so, I've already got more than enough money for my purposes, and I do happen to be over the poverty line. What I want, personally, is for everyone to have a good shot at a good life, and such things as poverty and bad schools undermine that. If a bright young person can't make it through college for financial reasons, we're wasting ability.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  25. Ah Yes, The Inequality Concern by rapierian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As always, addressed best by Margaret Thatcher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    1. Re:Ah Yes, The Inequality Concern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Addressed by setting up a straw man and responding to his claims. She was asked about people in that MP's constituency being worse off _relatively_to_1979_, not relatively to the rich. He was certainly not complaining that they didn't "get sufficiently richer" - he was complaining about them having trouble securing a house to live in and providing for themselves on a daily basis, more so than 11 years earlier. But leave it to the "Iron Lady" provide the "iron clad" argument which hits you over the head with an iron.

  26. It's called birth control by tomhath · · Score: 1

    Dreaming up make work for the unwashed masses is stupid.

  27. Has Been a Problem in Every Economic Revolution by Koreantoast · · Score: 1
    The thing people always seem to forget is that with every technological revolution, you have this problem - millions of people who are left behind and aren't able to be reabsorbed into the new economy. Their children may be able to adapt and fill the factories, but those formerly working individuals aren't, leaving behind an angry and unemployed mass of people and creating social upheaval. Here's one good take on it:

    But this process of replacing one occupation with another has always been slow. Society needs time to adjust to a change in required skill sets. In truth, few farmers really retrain as manufacturers and few manufacturers go on to become computer engineers. It is much more likely to be the next generation that trains into the new skill set modern society requires. The farmers’ children go on to be manufacturers and the manufacturers' children become computer scientists. But at some point, the rate of change may happen quicker than children take to grow up. At some point, the manufacturer has to retrain as a computer engineer or confront a life with no livelihood.

    If the past is a predictor (anarchists, communists, fascists and other violent revolutionaries who have nothing to lose), then we're in for a rough time.

  28. Internet technology says World Bank may widen ineq by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fixed that for ya

  29. Re:automation may be so cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Automation can never be so cheap that it pops up out of thin air. Some human team still has to build the robot arms for the assembly line to make the cars, etc.

  30. Upskilling not provided... by Julz · · Score: 1

    What seems more apparent is that companies aren't providing opportunities and support to upskill employees that have had their position made redundant and part thereof. I have personally seen this happen when the core part of an employees job was automated and instead of offering to teach them the skills to maintain and improve the automated process the company just decided to offer them a lower income manual job and then let them off when they showed an interest in skillng up. The money saved from automation should be used to improve employee skill sets to enable them to make further contributions to the company. The problem appears to be not automation but profits getting maximised to the detriment of company health, fat cats and bottom lines being compressed.

    --
    When shit hits the fan get some of these https://youtu.be/pY-GncsZ-UE
  31. Economics, not technology by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    There's a really easy way to turn all those low paying jobs into middle class jobs: just pay more! But we don't, because we can get away with paying less, and we never want to pay more for anything than we absolutely have to.

    Technology is shifting what jobs there's demand for, but it doesn't determine how much we pay for those jobs. That's determined by economics, and politics, and social institutions. We can fix the problem, but only if we focus on the real causes. Technology won't fix it, because technology isn't the real cause.

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  32. We'll fix that interet-thongyt for you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are the world bank. We control your money. We'll fix that internet for you. We'll monitor every post. We'll enforce our version of equality. We won't let you be bothered by pesky facts and ideas. We'll set you free. Because freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. War is peace.

  33. Re:Hoarding wealth by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    They don't hoard wealth. They just make sure that a very disproportionate amount of new wealth goes to them. If they had a lot of money, but couldn't really replace it, it wouldn't be a potentially big problem.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  34. Re:Hoarding wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not so much. Because our system is rigged for perpetual inflation, and never deflation, the value of accumulated wealth will always decrease. The general rule of thumb is that inflation is bad for people who have money, and good for people who owe money (since it reduces the value of your debt, if not the numerical amount). So if you're a person who has millions or billions, inflation is going to erode the value of your amassed dollars regardless of what or when you spend. If you're a government that owes trillions, this arrangement is just ducky.

  35. Re:Hoarding wealth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "They don't hoard wealth"

    They do, see "dead money"

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/free-up-dead-money-carney-exhorts-corporate-canada/article4493091/

  36. This is 2016... by iq145 · · Score: 1

    These things aren't problems unless you make them be!

  37. Experiment with your assets by JamesHolliberg · · Score: 1

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