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Netflix Decides To Crack Down On VPN Users (netflix.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Netflix have announced they'll be taking further steps to ensure users are not circumventing geo-restrictions. David Fullagar, Vice President of Content Delivery and Architecture at Netflix says "Some members use proxies or "unblockers" to access titles available outside their territory. To address this, we employ the same or similar measures other firms do. This technology continues to evolve and we are evolving with it. That means in coming weeks, those using proxies and unblockers will only be able to access the service in the country where they currently are. This announcement comes just days after Netflix Chief Product Officer Neil Hunt said that a VPN blocking policy might be impossible to enforce."
This reminds me of the poor Tor users who are met with Cloudflare pages for a large part of the net.
I doubt Netflix cares about geo restrictions at all. They're probably being pressured hard by the content providers. "Do something about this or we won't let you show our products."
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
It's not Netflix doing this, it's the copyright holders.
They're forcing them to do something.
Besides, this will barely have any effect.
It's like blocking torrents by blocking the DNS, easy to circumvent but the decision makers are satisfied.
- Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
Netflix will play cat and mouse with the unblocking services for 3 months, then give up and point to their initial statement - it is not possible to enforce.
---- Sig. gone.
One step forward, two steps back.
Back to ThePirateBay.
They're absolutely being lobbied by content providers. It was in the news not that long ago when they leaked emails from Sony on Wikileaks.
https://wikileaks.org/sony/emails/emailid/3124
1. Geofiltering
Netflix do not closely monitor where some of their subscribers are registering from and don’t take steps to counter circumvention websites that allow people in, for example, Australia, to sign up to the US or the UK Netflix service and subscribe illegally (Netflix don’t as of now have a service in Australia, nor do they have Australian rights for our content).
We have asked Netflix to take steps to more closely monitor circumvention websites, and to restrict methods of payment to more clearly weed out subscribers signing up for the service illegally. This is in effect another form of piracy – one semi-sanctioned by Netflix, since they are getting paid by subscribers in territories where Netflix does not have the rights to sell our content.
Netflix are heavily resistant to enforcing stricter financial geofiltering controls, as they claim this would present a too high bar to entry from legitimate subscribers. For example, they want people to be able to use various methods of payment (e.g. PayPal) where it is harder to determine where the subscriber is based. They recognize that this may cause illegal subscribers but they (of course) would rather err that way than create barriers to legitimate subscribers to sign up.
We have expressed our deep dissatisfaction with their approach and attitude. I’m sure other studios feel the same way, especially as we are now hearing from clients in Australia, South Africa and Iceland (to name a few) where significant numbers of people are able to subscribe to Netflix. Netflix of course get to collect sub revenues and inflate their sub count which in turn boosts their stock on Wall St., so they have every motivation to continue, even if it is illegal.
This issue is almost certainly going to get more heated, since our goal and Netflix’s are in direct opposition.
There was a blog-post from Netflix last year where they specifically said they are being pressured by content-providers to do this and they don't know how long they can hold out -- guess the point came where they couldn't hold out any longer. I don't blame Netflix for this, it doesn't matter to them what country you watch stuff from as long as you pay your monthly fee, but those greedy content-providers are at fault here.
It's likely that it's the content providers that thinks that they will profit more from the content if it's made scarce in some areas - at the cost of annoying the consumers.
No I honestly think its because Hollywood is too fucking lazy to re-write its standard industry contracts. It's a well established fact by now that the ONLY thing restricting content from a region does is boost piracy of that content in the "scarce" region. Hollywood idiots need to learn that the world has changed and they can't afford to turn away a customer with money in his hand EVER.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Or maybe not so smart, because then they pay nothing. This way the pay for the content. Partitioning the world for the purpose of selling content separately is just artificial scarcity and, at best, an anti-capitalist thing to do.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Their business model is so screwed up. I mean, no other industry responds to potential customers abroad willing to buy their stuff by making it extra hard for them to do so.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
"Some members take the effort to find VPNs so that they can use our service even more, and we obviously don't care very much for that." If it is indeed the content providers, why can't Netflix stand up to them?
It would pretty obviously be impossible to enforce 100%, but I would think it would be pretty easy to block the users of the major proxy services. Someone with their own private VPN woyuld probably never be detected, but 90% of the users would just give up
What good do regions do to any business strategy? Users pay to watch content and the content provider gets payed.
The content providers are not getting paid. When content is produced, different regions buy rights to distribute that content; to sell it. As an ironic example, Hulu bought the Japanese rights to House of Cards, a Netflix Original production. Why did Netflix sell it? Because at the time they didn't do business in Japan. Now they do. So if you subscribe to Netflix Japan, you won't find House of Cards.
So Hulu is understandably miffed if a Japanese consumer VPNs into the U.S. Netflix to watch House of Cards. Netflix is getting payed for content owned by Hulu.
People are willing to pay what they find acceptable for content. Annoying people and don't letting them access what they're paying will only make them move to other services that provide it for free and without annoyances...
The idea is: People in, say, sub-saharan Africa have less money and less disposable income, so they can price their product cheaper there and make up for it in volume. While people in, say, the US have a lot more disposable income and can withstand paying twice or three times as much as those in SSA.
The problem with this model is that Americans know that if the company is selling it cheaper elsewhere they're still definitely making a profit there, and price discrimination based on geography is bullshit. They're making money in Sub-saharan Africa charging $2, AND ALSO making MORE money in the US charging $12. It's totally bullshit for them to charge ME $12 when Mbutu only pays $2 while still turning a profit for the company. Why should I pay anything when the company is just trying to bilk me out of an EXTRA $10 when they're still making money on $2? Fuck them, I'm pirating and giving them $0 instead.
That kind of thing. The idea of geographic segregation only makes sense if there's actually barriers to delivery that are different between areas and ALSO an asymmetry of information. There is neither since the internet exists, so any geographical segregation is utter bullshit and laughable.
Hectice, baby, Mercator says hello to you
For those who complain about content geo-restrictions, look at it from the other side of the coin. If you are a TV network that has just paid up big for the rights to a new show, the last thing you want is for people to be able to get it via Netflix USA and kill your revenue (ad dollars, subscription fees, whatever)
My best guess is some kind of differential pricing strategy, lowering prices somewhat for some markets as the price they extract, er, charge, in some markets is too high for all markets and they don't want people arbitraging on their own to get a discount.
There might also be contractual terms that require them to guarantee exclusivity in a given market. If you have the rights in some small country which neither creates the content or manufactures the physical product, you might be worried about your market getting flooded with lower-cost versions and you want to be sure the license holder makes some effort to keep that product out of your area.
Or may be the contractual terms the content creator agreed to with the cast/crew, with differing royalties and rights available in different markets.
And maybe it's not even that, but some kind of on-paper accounting scheme that frees them from taxes or something on products sold in other regions.
Then there's the censorship conspiracy angle, where it might have been believed that region coding would be considered friendly to censorship-minded authorities. The DVD region map kind of aligns along broad cultural and more narrow political boundaries. If a particular title is acceptable in Region 1 but offends some country in another region, the region code (in theory, not in practice) provides a "but we tried" excuse that prevents objectionable content from appearing in a given region.
Given that Blu-Ray collapsed the region scheme into 3 regions, this is probably not extremely likely, but it doesn't seem entirely unlikely it didn't somehow get into the sales pitch for the original DVD region scheme.
No you are ridiculous. I am a paying Netflix customer. I access Netflix US via a VPN because I live outside the US. I will cancel my Netflix subscription if I find myself blocked. Hollywood has already been paid by Netflix for the rights to distribute the content. When I cancel my sub Hollywood will not lose one penny this quarter. The rub is, I will not be subscribing again. So Netflix is the one that is going to suffer. Hollywood is still going to want their money next quarter, and Netflix will have lost subs. How is this an attack on Hollywood? If anything, it's suicide by Netflix. Online content is just another item in the Hollywood revenue budget, whereas it is almost all of Netflix's revenue (apart from the couple shows they make themselves). Hollywood cannot be attacked by Netflix. Netflix is very much Hollywood's pet, and must do as it's told.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
And as a consumer, it gets irritating watching a broken legal system strangle capitalism.
So... This is the result of to much government interference?
in any unregulated economic system, The parties will move towards consolidation, and eventually, monopolies and oligopolies. The end result is no more capitalism. In an unrestricted manner, capitalism will actively destroy itself, as a free market economy is not in the interests of the owners of the biggest companies, and they have the means to do something about it.
Pure capitalism cannot exist any more than pure communism can. At the end of the day, the only thing the masses have to protect themselves from the tyranny of the "capitalists" is the point of a gun, and the rule of law backed up by the point of a gun...
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
It's legacy code. It made perfect sense until a few years ago, but it now needs to be refactored. Suppose you produce a show and CBS (USA) buys the rights to air it. Obviously CBS doesn't want their competitors, such as NBC, to have the same show. So you give CBS an -exclusive- contract.
So your show is on CBS and then the TV station in France wants to air it. CBS isn't competing in France, so they don't much care if the station in France has the same show. CBS only really cares that they have it exclusive in the United States. So that's the way contracts are written, TV networks buy exclusive rights in their country. That goes along fine for 90 years.
After 90 years of that approach working pretty well, Netflix comes along and they want to buy the same TV shows the networks do. The production company either already has sold exclusive rights in different countries or assumes they will (they always have before). The standard model of selling rights to networks in different countries doesn't work well with Netflix, which is available from almost any country (via vpn or otherwise). Hollywood will have to adjust and right contracts differently. Probably, Netflix will have to buy WORLDWIDE rights to the shows, which will be more expensive than buying rights only in a particular service area. They'll adjust, it just takes time to overcome a century of inertia.
Heck, the production companies are still doing something else they've done since the earliest days of TV - casting Betty White. :)
If you aren't using VPN, this doesn't affect you at all.
Absolutely incorrect. What Netflix is talking about, is cross referencing the payment methods bill-to address, and using that to determine what country the customer lives in. The result will be, that when you log in, *your account* determines what content you get access to, not your IP address. Spoofing a bill-to address for payment is a great deal harder to do. Banks do not allow incorrect bill-to address' easily. Most people don't have the wherewithal to get an american billing address, and even if they could, it will cost them more in time and money than it is worth.
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
Oh no! people care about our content enough that they are willing to pay Netflix (and use a proxy) to watch it! Why, we can't have that many fans of our products! BAN THEM!
I am not sure I am buying that one. With a traditional product certainly. The trouble is with media the variable costs per unit are near zero. So some of the traditional rules around the economics of selling get a little strange.
If I were selling cars (hey its slashdot) its probably the case that I can get my unit cost of production down lower building 50,000 of them rather than 10. I can charge less for each. I might attempt a price discrimination strategy to try and take market from my competition. That is if I know selling cars in $Region requires lower prices because people have less spending money I might go as low as at cost, figuring it could lead to future sales. Its unlikely for anything more than a very short term period I'll go below cost. Its also true that my variable cost per unit remains significant. I am not going to build another 10,000 cars if I have to give them away below cost, I will lose a lot of money doing that.
On the the other hand. With digital media delivered online my variable costs are damn near zero, if I am otherwise operating on any kind of market leading scale. Physical media is also pretty near zero, at those scales. A truck load of DVDs probably costs a grand or so to produce. Now there are only so many customers in high income parts of the world to by the product which has huge fixed costs, making AAA movie is expensive. I have to cover those costs. It may not be possible to do so selling at $2. However once I have gotten everyone willing to pay $12 to do so and covered my costs than any additional sales I can make at $2 anywhere, third run streaming on Netflix, Eastern Bumbfuckistan on DVD, etc is purely additional profit because the variable costs are zero.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
One day you will wake up - hopefully - and realize that "power" doesn't meant "speed-typing on a keyboard" but "I can take a dump on anyone anytime and get away with it".
No, you see, because I don't have to play their game. They are powerless because I access through a VPN, and they are powerless if they go after Netflix because I switch to torrenting what I want (like I did before). And if they are willing to spend their power trying to convince the entire world's courts and lawyers and cops that downloaders of a "Game of Thrones" or "Gotham" episode need to be thrown in jail then I wish them every success, because at that point I won't be interested in their "content" anymore. There are other things I can do with my free time. Back in the day there was only TV and they were God. Now there are a lot of things someone can do to keep entertained. And to be honest the quality of the "content" they provide is disturbingly poor nowadays.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
There is plenty of content in other countries, that I can't watch in the US. Misfits and The Shield are two I'm currently watching. I've also noticed that some things that are Amazon, Hulu, or Yahoo exclusives in the US are on Netflix in other countries, for example, Under the Dome and Community.
For some reason, Canada seems to get new movies afew weeks sooner then the US. Maybe that has something to do with the RedBox kerfuffle from afew years ago.
Cheap storage VM.
It's a side effect of media companies still clinging desperately to 20th century business models, with a hopelessly complex web of international agreements and licensing rights that are becoming increasingly archaic in a world with media streaming on one unified internet.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
This sounds like an excellent way to prepare to get a license to distribute in other locations.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
Why isn't your catalog of video choices based upon your billing address, instead of your IP? They certainly know where the CC # is based out of and tie that to the video selection and boom, they don't have to care if you VPN/Proxy in.
IMarv
Trusting software vendors is no smarter than trus
Well you have to figure, as far as Netflix is concerned, the best thing is to have all content available to all people all the time. Ignoring licensing costs and storage costs for a second, it would be to their benefit to just store every video ever made and make it available to any subscriber that wants to watch it, since that would increase the utility to the subscriber, thereby increasing the likelihood of keeping the subscription.
Anything contrary to that is probably going to be a cost-saving measure or a restriction demanded by the IP owner. I very much doubt that their region-based limitations are a cost-saving measure.
No, you see, because I don't have to play their game. They are powerless because I access through a VPN, and they are powerless if they go after Netflix because I switch to torrenting what I want (like I did before).
That's their problem. We were all torrenting because trying to buy the stuff was a nightmare. Give us an easy way to buy it and we will, we said. So they did, for a while, and all was well. Until they wanted the control back of how, where and who can watch what and when. So we start to say fuck you again and go back to piratebay and their ilk.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
This is an attack on Hollywood. Please stop your victim blaming.
LOL thank you. I needed that.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Yes but the sub titling and translations of all that US content doesn't come for free!
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
If you aren't using VPN, this doesn't affect you at all.
Absolutely incorrect. What Netflix is talking about, is cross referencing the payment methods bill-to address, and using that to determine what country the customer lives in. The result will be, that when you log in, *your account* determines what content you get access to, not your IP address. Spoofing a bill-to address for payment is a great deal harder to do. Banks do not allow incorrect bill-to address' easily. Most people don't have the wherewithal to get an american billing address, and even if they could, it will cost them more in time and money than it is worth.
So they will go back to what they were doing before Netflix; pirating. The 'rights holders' will start to notice the huge leap in piracy and its just possible that it might dawn on their tiny minds that if they opened up viewing rights globally they might make *some* money from that international audience instead of *no* money.
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.