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Microsoft: Only the Latest Version of Windows Will Support New CPU Generations (windows.com)
Joe_Dragon sends news from Microsoft about how the company will support Windows now and in the future. The company says PCs built with Intel's Skylake chip, and other new architectures in the future, will require the latest version of Windows for support. This doesn't take effect right away; Windows 7 and 8.1 will be supported on older chips until their planned end-of-life dates, in 2020 and 2023 respectively. They'll also be supported on a list of current Skylake devices for the next 18 months. After that, only the latest version of Windows will support integration between the operating system and new CPU features. "For example, Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon." Microsoft also mentioned that for new supported systems, the company will "ensure all drivers will be on Windows Update with published BIOS/UEFI upgrading tools." The submitter adds, "Putting BIOS/UEFI updates in to the Windows 10 auto- / forced-update system may open Microsoft to paying $600-$1,000+ to replace broken laptops. If Windows tries to update BIOS/UEFI at a bad/risky time (like during power instability in a big storm), it could lead to an update loop or worse."
wow microsoft, you are really working OVERTIME to make sure we all really hate and despise your horrible joke of an operating system.
just say no to windoz 10
As long as the chips adhere to the X86/x64 standards, how relevant is this announcement? Yes, newly introduced extensions and features may not be backported to Windows 7, but unless this OS will not run at all on next-gen silicone, this is nothing but FUD.
Am I missing something here? Do Skylake et al. really require substantial modificaitons to existing OSs?
Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
We're currently at the point where Linux is pretty much at the point where it is no longer necessary to run Windows on a machine. The only real reason to run Windows outside of a VM today is, essentially, games and all the other applications that require certain hardware features. Which are few and far between by now.
Linux gaming is gaining steam (you may keep the pun), so that problem should be sorted by 2020. Most applications that are unavailable in Windows (mostly specialized applications that have no counterpart in Linux) will work in a VM.
There is hope that by 2020 saying good bye (or rather, good riddance) to Redmond is quite painless.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
That's still not safe enough. I run Windows inside a virtual machine on Linux inside a virtual machine on OS X.
Skylake chips support some new power management features that allow the chip to throttle based on load far more efficiently than older chips. Microsoft is not adding special support to that to Windows 7 for example. The chip will still work on Windows 7 but not all features will work.
If you use a Debian install from 5 years ago it also won't support any of those new power management features and they are not going to backport those features. You can install a new kernel and a new version of some of the power management libraries, that will probably involve rebuilding a lot of user space and in the end you are probably going to break something else. What you would have to do is just use a distribution new enough to support all the features on your new processor.
OSX is going to do EXACTLY the same thing. Apple is not going to backport skylake power management to a 5 year old version of OSX and all the risks that could have. They are going to take the newest version, work out the details on that, validate it and support it.
Intels and AMDs new processors will continue to work on older Windows and Linux versions just like before. It is just that Microsoft has officially announced they are not going to backport new processor features to older operating system versions.
Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD!
Microsoft really wants everyone off Windows 7 ASAP, apparently. They probably just want to make sure there are no more XP-style holdouts like last time. By saying you can't put anything other than Windows 10 on new hardware you get from manufacturers, that's a pretty big stake in the ground for traditional enterprise desktop customers. Traditional desktops are on an 18-month production cycle, but companies typically stick with the same OS version for as long as possible unless there's a real reason to upgrade. This is going to pretty much force enterprises to move to 10 at the next hardware cycle. So, Windows 7 will probably be done on new hardware pretty soon. I'm not a big fan of making PCs appliances, but I'm an old fart so I might as well get with the times. :-)
On the other hand, it might be interesting to see what happens to Windows when the need to support all the legacy hardware falls away. Part of OS design for an open platform is a compromise because you can't use every single cool new chipset feature, you have to provide support for IDE hard disks, you need to allow for 10 year old architectures, etc. Phone manufacturers like Apple write the OS directly for the processor and hardware in the devices which might allow them to take advantage of a very specific feature and assume it will always be available on any system the OS runs on.
I wonder how Microsoft is going to handle VMs.
trying to sneak in their 'telemetery' (read as: spyware/malware) updates onto your systems so they can collect your personal data, steal your files, and whatever else it is they're doing that qualifies as cybercrime.
Facepalm. That's just overblown trash-talk. Microsoft collects basic telemetry like system uptime, installed updates, and how many times you have used UWP apps. They don't touch your personal files and they don't know what you do inside apps.
The preceding is my opinion. Don't like it? Tough, deal with it
Its mine too, I supported/used MS products for 19+ years as a Windows/Linux sysadmin. When I retired in 2010, I decided I'd had enough of Redmond's *stuff* and since I'd been using Linux since 1995 (Slackware, if you must know), I decided ALL of my systems going forward would be running Linux. After seeing Windows 10 (and playing with it quite a bit during preview), I couldn't be happier about my decision to flush MS products. However, since I'm retired and *too* many people in the neighborhood knew I was one of those "IT geeks", I've become the defacto tech support for my church and neighborhood. I've had quite a few people ask me about this new Windows 10 they're hearing about, and I proceed to show them chapter/verse of just how insidious it is. I did testing where I "castrated" a clean install of 10, including local account, and a bunch of stuff turned off in gpedit.msc, then loaded rpcapd on my router and pointed Wireshark at it.. Even "castrated" with all of the obvious spyware crap turned off, the Wireshark packet buffer showed a scary amount of "calling home" still.. Even the folks still on 7/8/8.1 are getting the "telemetry" crap shoved down their throats.. Since my testing, I've had several neighbors come to me with new systems bought over the holidays asking what can they do to minimize the damage. I give them an Ubuntu LiveCD and show them how to boot it, and have them work with it for a week or so and then ask them if they'd like to switch to it permanently. So far, everybody who has tried the LiveCD "preview" has gone for the "upgrade". I normally suggest, on a new-inwarrantee system, that they spend $40 or so for another hard drive to install Linux on, keeping the original in case of warrantee issues. As more and more people find out about Windows 10, I suspect I'd be able to start a small business doing upgrades..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
How do you know about that?
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
You REALLY have to stopp polluting the discussion with facts.
"Putting BIOS/UEFI updates in to the Windows 10 auto- / forced-update system may open Microsoft to paying $600-$1,000+ to replace broken laptops. If Windows tries to update BIOS/UEFI at a bad/risky time (like during power instability in a big storm), it could lead to an update loop or worse."
Laptop... power instability in a storm....
I'd like to add back to the submitter: Laptops are the least likely thing to suffer from power instability in a storm, unless your battery is completely dead and can't ride through a basic power outage, in which case I doubt your laptop is worth $600-1000 anymore.
...and I suspect they know it, this is their ALL-IN-OR-NOTHING last nail in the coffin investment, too bad they didn't smarten up and joined the club instead of trying to go down screaming and burning.
...with STEAM...as they where true gamers). I bought a system based on their recommendations, and I was NOT disappointed.
I'm an 50 something computer user/programmer/admin/whatever that has been using and coding computers since I was 12 years old, the days when I had to make my own video games because I was an early adopter and nothing was available to us. Didn't stop me from getting what I want. And guess what? That's the way of the world, this is how customers work - they want something? You have it? You can sell it! But trying to shove stuff down their throats doesn't really work well in the long run. History repeats itself.
I've been using Windows alongside Linux since 1998 (before that, it was all about Commodore 64, Amiga / Atari etc. for me). I basically went over to Linux back then in order to rid myself of proprietary stuff and take back the control of my computer - make it do what I WANT to do. Of course, in those days that was simply too much for the Joneses and they would prefer the mainstream instead of messing around under the hood just to get basic stuff up and running - and guess what - we...the Linux users NEVER blamed them for that. In fact, I understand this perfectly, heck...that was partially the Mac's big success - you could just plug it in and no messing around with stupid drivers and whatnot. Normal people just want to use their computers.
But something happened - Google started to support Android bigtime, and Android is essentially Linux under the hood - and then Hardware support EXPLODED. before we knew it - we saw companies like Ubuntu and many others fight like mad against Windows (or rather, run their own course as a decent competitor regardless of losses and support), because they knew - eventually - they'll catch up. And we did - together!
I use Mint Linux today - when I discovered this combo (Ubuntu + Cinnamon) I could basically say goodbye to my Windows partition for good. It was just an annoying liability of worms, constant numerous battles with worms, updates, turning of disk trashing...oh sorry...caching / optimizing or whatever they call necessary to optimize that slow running disk trashing system that took forever to boot each time I wanted to run something that demanded Windows only. It was getting further and further away from me, I had hardly touched Windows for ages.
AND HERE...is where things get fun...
I decided that I needed a new computer, so I went and bought the most BLEEDING edge hardware I could get my hands on, in my big ego...(basically only running Linux) I had totally forgotten that there was an operating system called windows (and curiously so had the people at the computer store, they themselves ran Linux mainly at home
When I assembled the entire computer at home - latest bleeding specs - latest Mint Linux - it all installed in less than 15 minutes WITH EVERYTHING I NEEDED (try that with windows unless you have a Ghosted Image with the EXACT specs of that computer), and it boots in between 3 and 6 seconds from start to finish! And this is just with a STOCK EVO 850 Samsung SSD HD.
Try to imagine the speed if they had the PCI SSD In stock....(gonna get that one!).
And every part of the hardware was supported - straight away - not only that, my setup surpassed EVERY RENDERING TEST done with BLENDER open source 3D software CYCLES (software rendering, not Nvidia GPU) done on tested Windows machines with exactly the same specs as mine.
Bye Windows, may you rest in peace.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Most importantly, having all your keystrokes
More trash-talk.
Having all the keystrokes sent is another myth. Windows can send some typing and inking samples to improve recognition. It's not a full keylogger. They also very clearly ask during setup if you want to use it.
Look, guys. Windows 10 certainly does not offer perfect privacy, but it's not a monster which steals all your data either. Most of the stuff is just some basic hardware statistics and settings synchronization across devices.
"I believe Microsoft is perfectly entitled to drop support for newer processors in old versions of Windows."
Even more: that's not dropping support. "Dropping" implies something was supported and it is supported no more. If doing something, like being able to boot up on processor X, was never in the feature list, you are not "dropping" anything by still being unable to boot up on processor X.
A different issue, and one that, given Microsoft history, wouldn't surprise me, would be if Microsoft were to go out of their way to add an "update" to test for the new processor and refuse to boot on that.
Most people don't actually use any applications other than the browser these days, chromeos is actually an ideal choice for a significant proportion of users.
There's also a lot of people who regularly use the internet but have never heard of windows, fixed lines are rare in a lot of developing countries so most users are on mobile and are generally using android devices.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
So here's the problem with that: it's none of their fucking business unless we opt in.
I don't give a shit what Microsoft wants. It should be up to me if my computer sends any fucking data to Microsoft or not.
I am stuck using their OS for some stuff. I should not be forced to send them any fucking data about my fucking usage patterns.
Microsoft is accelerating the rate at which people are going to aggressively look for alternatives, but they don't seem to give a shit.
Basic telemetry my ass. Trash talk my ass.
Go ahead, be a fanboi apologist. But don't downplay that Microsoft has decided they don't need our fucking permission to do things to OUR fucking computers.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
I'm of the opinion that Microsoft sees this as their main chance, with the near term arrival of "instant suspend / resume" in the laptop form factor, because otherwise, who the hell cares about the 3% annual performance increment that Intel presently eeks out year over year?
TrendForce Reports Intel's 3D XPoint to Shake High-End SSD Market in 3Q16
It's sort of well known that Kaby / Cannon with have some interesting new shit.
+100 Insightful. Telemetry should be opt in. period. In fact we should push politicians to make all data logging illegal unless explicitly allowed and it should also be possible to disable it completely. :(
Aggresively looking for alternatives? Well, I've made my mind to stop using Windows when using 7 is no longer viable but sadly most people don't give a shit. That's why then can keep doing these things
> They don't touch your personal files and they don't know what you do inside apps.
Ok, so first of all, here's the Windows 10 Eula. It points you to the Microsoft Privacy Statement.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...
And here's the document it's talking about:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...
So, lets go into this a bit. First, do they know what you do inside apps?
"The data we collect depends on the services and features you use, and includes the following..... ...Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect. "
Ok, so AS EXAMPLES, they mention how they monitor and track what you do inside apps. THE STOCKS YOU FUCKING TRACK IN A FINANCE APP. That's their goddamned EXAMPLE! Like that's the least offensive thing they could come up with, or something.
It is unambiguous that they know what you do inside apps.
Ok, next point, and this one is harder. Do they "touch your personal files"? Lets look:
Well, if you don't turn off "Input Personalization", then we KNOW it grabs everything you type, write, and say. But lets assume you DO turn that off.
Under Telemetry, we find this (it's pretty big):
---"
Usage and connectivity data. Microsoft regularly collects basic information about your Windows device including usage data, app compatibility data, and network and connectivity information. This data is transmitted to Microsoft and stored with one or more unique identifiers that can help us recognize an individual user on an individual device and understand the device's service issues and use patterns. The data we collect includes:
Configuration data, including the manufacturer of your device, model, number of processors, display size and resolution, date, region and language settings, and other data about the capabilities of the device.
The software (including drivers and firmware supplied by device manufacturers), installed on the device.
Performance and reliability data, such as how quickly programs respond to input, how many problems you experience with an app or device, or how quickly information is sent or received over a network connection.
App use data for apps that run on Windows (including Microsoft and third party apps), such as how frequently and for how long you use apps, which app features you use most often, how often you use Windows Help and Support, which services you use to sign into apps, and how many folders you typically create on your desktop.
Network and connection data, such as the device's IP address, number of network connections in use, and data about the networks you connect to, such as mobile networks, Bluetooth, and identifiers (BSSID and SSID), connection requirements and speed of Wi-Fi networks you connect to.
Other hardware devices connected to the device.
"---
Hrm, that sounds like some personal files would be in there, but it's not quite clear.
There's this part:
---"
Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails in Outlook.com, or files in private folders on OneDrive), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:
- comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies;
- protect our customers, for example to prev