What's In a Tool? a Case For Made In the USA (hackaday.com)

szczys writes: You have the choice of buying a wrench made in the USA and one made in China. Which one should you buy? The question is not a straightforward one. Tools are judged by their ability to do the job repeatedly and without fail. To achieve this, only the best of design and manufacturing will do. But this is a high bar when you factor in price competition which often leads to outsourcing production. Gerrit Coetzee looks at this issue, comparing two instances of the same model of Crescent brand adjustable wrench; one a legacy manufactured in the USA, another outsourced for manufacture in China.

Comments

Crescent won't learn

[damn_registrars]

They were one of the most significant holdouts over the past decade or so, but they won't learn from their mistake. They could have learned from vise-grip, who could have learned from dremel, who could have learned from Stanley. Sears (Craftsman) could have learned from any or all of them, as could Husky and Kobalt.

They'll all just go the same way, only to lose the race to the bottom to Harbor Freight.

Re:Crescent won't learn

[Anonymous Coward]

One could easily see this lesson by taking a Craftsman wrench from the 1990s and comparing it with one made today.

Now, one can just go to Harbor Freight, pick up hand tools which are just as good as the Craftsmans (because they likely come off the same forges and on the same boats), but a lot cheaper. For stuff that is infrequently used, this is fine. Same with HF's power tools. I've seen their stuff with a different color and a name brand... same cheap, Chinese construction... but 2-5 times the price. So, might as well skip the "badge engineering" and go there.

Of course, if you want stuff that is worth anything, especially powered items, you will be paying more, but it actually will work.

What is funny is there is room in the tool market. All it would take is for a tool company to make decent tools (not whatever the Chinese factories can make), but something designed in the US, and well made (the 1990s Craftsman tools are a good example.) Then, sell those at mom and pop shops or whatever stores don't mind carrying them. Now, people will have a choice between cheap Chinese junk, rebranded Chinese junk, and overpriced (but well made) US made tools. This is what Craftsman should be, but since Sears surrendered to K-Mart, it will need to be a specialty company.

Maybe if Park Tool decides to get their head out of their ass, move tool making back to the US, and expand out of the bicycle market, that would be the ideal thing. Their stuff has been quite decent, but it would make them actually stand out if they went back to pre-millenium tool making.

Re:Crescent won't learn

[Anonymous Coward]

It's problematic to do comparisons with older objects. The ones that lasted were the good ones. The ones with manufacturing defects have been replaced long ago.

Re: Crescent won't learn

[guruevi]

The thing is that many Chinese tools from a stable brand also have trade in. Husky/Kobalt have a no questions asked trade in at their respective big box stores. I use it frequently as do professionals. I've tried trading in expensive tools from supposedly "good" brands and pay more in shipping than a new cheap tool will cost.

These days the quality from China is the same as the quality from the US in a lot of cases. There are outliers but they are no longer the norm. And stuff is so cheap these days it makes no sense to buy the expensive crap. I bought an electric staple gun from harbor freight for $15 - 4000 staples later the spring came out of it's chamber - HB replaced it on the spot. But it's better than doing 20000 staples with the $100 gun and then having to bring it in 3 days for a $75 "consumable part" repair.

Judgement

[jbmartin6]

"Tools are judged by their ability to do the job repeatedly and without fail" Not necessarily. I might just need it once, or for very light use. It is often true that you get what you pay for, but this doesn't mean you should pay for more than what you need.

Re:Judgement

[MBGMorden]

Rarely is hiring a professional going to be cheaper than a cheap tool if you can do the job yourself.

Personally, I COMPLETELY understand the point of the article. There are certain tools I use a lot. For those, I avoid crap and try to buy Made in the USA stuff if I can help it (not that everything made here is good or everything made in China is bad - but the signal to noise ratio is definitely better if you buy domestically made stuff).

On the flip side though - there are other things that I expect to use once or infrequently. As a DIRECT comparison to your example - I needed to fit a recoil pad to an old gunstock a few years back. Cost to have a gunsmith do it: $35. I had full faith in my ability to do the job - I just needed a belt sander (which I've never needed before so I didn't have one). I not only bought a cheap Chinese made one - I bought a USED Chinese one from a pawn shop for $10. Job went perfectly without a hitch. Not only did I save a bit of cash, but I also now have a belt sander sitting in the garage if I happen to need one again. Now if I used one daily , I'd get something a lot better. It'd be worth it as I'm sure this unit wouldn't last too long with constant use. But for just the one time I needed it for? The cheap unit worked fine.

Fallacy

[KeensMustard]

This is bit of a false dilemma fallacy. Firstly, Chinese manufacturers will make tools to spec - if you pay them less, get a lower quality product. Secondly, I don't see why I would go to Bunnings or Gasweld and only have the choice of two brands - there's many brands out there, Sidchrome, Stanley, Kincrome are all very good (and all AFAIK made in Taiwan these days) - just buy the tool at whatever price level makes sense.Not a lot of point shelling out big bucks for a tool you only pick up once a year.

Nothing against US made stuff but you pay extra because of the cost of shipping it half way around the world, and generally the exchange rate makes importing those goods expensive because the of the high US dollar.

Re:Fallacy

[ibpooks]

Chinese manufacturers will make tools to spec - if you pay them less, get a lower quality product.

I believe really that they will make tools to whatever spec the customer aggressively tracks, monitors and enforces every little detail of; and as soon as there is a hint of flexibility or laxity in the oversight, will slip through lower quality where ever they think they can get away with. This includes things like "crimes of omission", where they will actively seek to work around the spec and poke holes where the inspectors may not be looking or may not have even thought to look. It is taking an approach of delivery of the least possible quality, rather than a good faith effort to meet or exceed the intent of the customer.

Re:Fallacy

[fahrbot-bot]

as soon as there is a hint of flexibility or laxity in the oversight, will slip through lower quality where ever they think they can get away with

That's my understanding. It's an East versus West thing - Eastern mindset is "if you don't catch me cheating I'm a clever businessman"

I think Wall Street thinks that too.

also a case for "Design in China"

[dfn5]

There are lots of Chinese tools that are the best in the world.

I’ve worked as an engineer in industry. The one common thread between a quality product and a bad product has always been this, ”Is the person who designed the product involved in making the product?”

This is not an argument for "Made in the USA". This is an argument for the design and manufacture should be in the same place. Therefore, this also makes the case for "Don't just export the manufacturing phase. Also export the designing phase."

Re:Capitalism in practice...

[fluffernutter]

There are a great many human values that an economic system could promote. Capitalism got none of them.

Re:Capitalism in practice...

[siphonophore]

Education, for one, is sorely lacking. Here's an example of someone living a historically luxurious life without the faintest idea where it all comes from.