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Verizon Vows To Build the First 5G Network In the US (networkworld.com)
alphadogg writes: Verizon says it will have the first 5G network in the U.S., a promise it probably can't fulfill until 2020 but will start working at this year. Verizon Chief Financial Officer Fran Shammo made the pledge Thursday on the company's fourth-quarter financial results call. He also repeated the company's plans for so-called 5G trials this year.
at $15 a gig in overages they will pay off the cost fast.
Ok, maybe I'm missing it, but 4g seems fast enough to me.
I can watch video, play games, use apps, browse the web, etc. on 4g now.
I'm struggling to imagine what I'd need another big speed boost for?
Not that I'm against it, I am just trying to see the need. If it solves other issues, such as allowing more total traffic in the same radio spectrum, then fair enough, but the summary doesn't say that.
So what are you doing with your phones that needs more speed?
Are you really blaming Verizon for shitty contractors? I sure hope I don't get blamed for all the crappy contractors I've hired over the years. Wouldn't have hired them if I knew they were shitty.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Fast internet? You know this is verizon we're talking about, right?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Speed isn't an issue for me, it's bandwidth.
With the current caps and bandwidth limits in place, adding more speed is like dropping a bigger engine in a Ferrari that can only be driven on a quarter-mile track with a giant brick wall at the end. What's the point besides getting to crash into the wall that much sooner?
However, given how bloated websites are getting due to so much javascript, shitty advertising, and other cruft, they may need the speed boost just to keep the page load times reasonable.
After my unsuccessful experience trying to get around my old Verizon smartphone's jacked up bootloader to try to get Cyanogen on it, I don't care if they have 6 or 7 G's in their network. I'm not going back to them.
Why is it called 5G? Because that's how much throughput you're allowed each month.
It's not a speed boost in most cases, but a boost in bandwidth. It's very possible that 5G will have to be rolled out alongside 4G. That's because 5G is likely to use much higher frequencies in order to achieve the higher bandwidth. As a consequence, the effective range of 5G will probably be quite a bit lower than 4G. That means more access points and towers to achieve similar coverage to 4G, which presents a lot of issues. It's far from mature, and I think Verizon is making a mistake by trying to roll out 5G so quickly (see my WiMax post below). However, 5G will greatly increase bandwidth while also probably requiring more towers and access points. That almost certainly means fewer devices will connect to each tower, probably freeing up congestion that can occur with some 4G towers. It also means that Verizon and others will probably need to raise their data usage limits, which is a good thing. If it goes from 12 GB to, say, 120 GB, it becomes a lot easier to watch videos and do other bandwidth-intensive activities (by today's standards) without risking overages. It's dangerous to predict that the added bandwidth won't be used. We really can't anticipate how bandwidth needs will grow and what new uses will be out there five or ten years from now. Let's not constrain future innovation based on our present needs and uses. That's a mistake.
If they could figure out how to eliminate the caps and ridiculous bandwidth charges, which I don't foresee happening in my lifetime, it could be a reasonable alternative to land based Internet, or at least enough of a competitor to Comcast, et al, that they might be slightly less monopolistic in their behavior.
Although it would take a real change in how they cap and charge for bandwidth. I just checked, and I've used 2.1 TB of downloads in the last 12 months. That'd be about my mortgage payment in cellular bandwidth, if I could even figure out a way to get an LTE provider who would even let me download that much at any price.
10 years ago Verizon was selling data plan with per Kb charges. I think it was a nickel per kilobyte. 5G they will probably figure out how to cram more devices per tower and wireless will turn into the next home internet. the issue now is that at peak times my AT&T is virtually useless. i live close to a major road in NYC and during rush hour everyone is probably streaming music in their car
Re 'So what are you doing with your phones that needs more speed?"
Too many users packed in using a limited amounts of bandwidth will be an issue that makes a brand look slow. To free up or allow a smarter use of a limited network options, upgrades need to try and keep pace with users needs and demands.
The options are to restrict people with expensive plans (fine if all users are wealthy or a company is paying), data caps, reduce speeds or allow slow network usability issues to spread and be commented on.
An average telco would like to add a lot more people who can pay on *any* plan to spend up more and get the feel of a good network at anytime and location.
The old days of text, low res images and voice calls are now been replaced with video streaming and larger files been sent in both directions.
Camera options might create larger RAW files too that need more bandwidth up than a text message, voice call or very low res compressed image.
Cell phones pack more hardware that can create larger HD or now 4K video files. People are streaming more from video sites for longer when connected.
Huge files, streaming more data for longer, more users, cheaper plans. Time to upgrade the network to keep up and ensure all users enjoy equal access to the media and services they want to pay for anytime they want.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Good 3G is actually more than enough in most cases, you can stream 1080p video with it... if you are alone with a very good signal.
The only real benefit I got from 4G is access to another frequency band with more capacity in crowded areas. I think the same is true for 5G.
The massive speed argument is just marketing. Telling you that you may finally get the bandwidth that they advertised a decade ago doesn't sell as well.
I need a fifth G. I have an iPhone with a 6, which means my G's are two behind. I can tolerate maybe being one G behind, but this is getting ridiculous.
Screw it. We are going with 6G.
Perhaps they should define what 5G is before pledging to build it
Sorry, your answer doesn't count unless you show the math.
Verizon is consistently rated as having the best network in the US. That costs money to build out, maintain, and upgrade.
Currently, Sprint is losing money, T-Mo's profit margin is 1.68%, ATT's is 3.68%. Verizon's is 7.86%. Companies which don't have infrastructure of that scale to build and maintain: Apple's margin is 22.85%, MSFT 13.52%, GOOG 22.86%.
Your implication that VZW is vastly overcharging simply doesn't fit the facts, but does make a good populist sound bite.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Don't worry about it. Remember, we are talking about the U.S. and Verizon, here.
That means that whatever they build will be called "5G" for marketing purposes, but it will only be half the speed of what the rest of the world calls 5G, and cost 6 times more.
Indeed. I would be more impressed if they actually got a 4G Network up and running. After all, I'm already paying for it. Right now it seems to be more like a 3.5-ish G. Verizon, could you please work on delivering what you already promised to us? Please?
"maybe I'm missing it"
Yep. Wireless is a shared medium, so more bandwidth allows not only higher speed for one user, but more users at the same performance. If demand stays the same, then more supply will lower prices. Just conjecture, but it may also increase battery life, since less time will be needed per bit.
Are you still happy with your 640K of memory, which should be enough for anyone?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I sincerely hope that you are joking!
The adjective 'fast' and the noun 'internet' don't go together, at least not in the USA
We used to be the leader of the world in terms of connectivity, but now ...
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
You are my spirit brother.
build a gsm, 2g, 3g or LTE network that doesn't suck first.
I dread travelling to the states for fear of US broadband
You're sharing the airwaves with everyone in range of a tower. Have you ever had success getting directions, much less watching video, while at a concert or conference with thousands of people in attendance? Faster speeds mean less congestion, among other benefits.
I have been worried that using encryption will attract attention of law enforcement who will know I something to hide. What a tremendous relief that I will now look just like another law abiding citizen using escrow crypto. While at the same time, I will use this escrow crypto for 99% of my communications, including my embarrassing but legal porn collection. And then, just when I hatch my evil plots, I will encrypt a small amount of data with my own crypto, before stamping escrowed one on top.
Now the government has no reason to suspect me unless they get a warrant, sift through ALL my stuff and manage to realize that a second of noise in a 2 hour movie file contains my real secrets.
I for one welcome our new technologically illiterate overlords!
If the 3G -> 4G transition fiasco is anything to go by, their 5G will just be 4G redefined so they can market it as 5G. So if 4G is sufficient then (cough) "5G" should be fine as well.
We could also get it well before 2020, depending on how up-to-speed their marketing department is.
Well that's nothing... I vow to sleep with every supermodel in California. And I think my chances are probably on par with Verizon's.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Unlimited, uncapped and unthrottled LTE data that can be used with a computer?
I could see the $100 unlimited uncapped with throttling or maybe without tethering or off-phone data consumption.
Is this a commercially available plan or some legacy plan?
Googletard. Check Yahoo finance.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Ok, maybe I'm missing it, but 4g seems fast enough to me.
Do a search on slashdot for "seems fast enough to me" for any article 5 years or older, and have a laugh.
The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
"Hey, dumbass, guess what. Voice communication uses more data than texts or video streaming,"
Hey, AC, guess what? You're extremely wrong. A full telco fidelity G.711 voice stream uses ~64 kbps (unidirectional). The recommended speech codec for VoLTE is G.722.2, which provides HD audio in <24 kbps. What video streaming are you doing in a 64 k channel? You can't even do decent stereo audio with that.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
This is the same Verizon who promised FIOS for everyone and failed to deliver on it.
Deeds, Verizon. Not words.
A HUGE amount of Americans have absoloutely no idea in any level of how expensive and difficult it is to maintain a quality, low to mid bandwidth cellphone network, no CONCEPT at all.
I've been seeing angry fist shaking posts about it for over a decade, "they have the audacity to charge me more than $10 for unlimited data!?!?!!?" kind of ridiculous bullshit.
Obviously companies will try to squeeze you where they can but the amount of dumb shit people do on their phone in the US is mind boggling. I'm surprised ATT is making any money with the grandfathered iPhone unlimited plans just milking many MANY gbs a month of data across their network
They seem to think that it's exactly the same as a cabled network (fibre / dsl) for maintenance and upgrades, no goddamn idea.
ITU-R has defined 5G, only they call it IMT-2020. Just like '4G' was actually IMT-Advanced, and '3G' was IMT-2000.
That would be great and all, except there are Verizon wireless towers here that haven't seen a maintenance truck for any repairs or upgrades in the last four years, to the point that the lock & chain they use on the security fencing is rusted shut. Please tell me more about how they spend tons of money on maintenance and upgrades.
@Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
Obligatory
Ok, maybe I'm missing it, but 4g seems fast enough to me.
Do you need it? No. Is it nice not waiting on your phone for anything? Most definitely. I was happy with my 20/5 internet at home and 4G mobile. Moving to the Netherlands I'm super impressed about no longer having to wait for anything with 200/40 and LTE-A (4G+ as it's called here).
There's no content on the market that requires the bandwidth, but it is nice having access to everything instantly (or as fast as the phone can render the screen which is the bottleneck now for web browsing).
How quaint that you think physical site visits are the only form of maintenance. You obviously know nothing about operating communications infrastructure.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Personally, I don't think they can do it. After all, bandwidth is so precious that we have to try and throw out Net Neutrality and we have to throttle back abusers of the network, and to charge extremely high overage fees for people who exceed the very, very small data amounts we allow on the network. God forbid your kid visits Youtube! Yeah, I seriously doubt that Verizon has the network capacity to handle 5G ... Unless someone is lying...
Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
Smaller local companies that offers normal internet over cellphone radio waves exist. It usually seem to involve a Parabolic antenna pointed at the radio tower. And since its a parabolic antenna, it seems to be less affected by weather degrading the signal.
A friend of mine moved to the middle of nowhere, and since there was no cable laid there, they had to consider their option. Turns out the broadband provide in the next county had their broadband tower in plain sight from the house, so they contacted them and got a subscription.
Ping increase seems to be in 10-15ms, compared to 30-40 for 3G mobile broadband.
Their text messages can be a little slow at times.
Their text messages can be kind of slow.
A HUGE amount of Americans have absoloutely no idea in any level of how expensive and difficult it is to maintain a quality, low to mid bandwidth cellphone network, no CONCEPT at all.
I've been seeing angry fist shaking posts about it for over a decade, "they have the audacity to charge me more than $10 for unlimited data!?!?!!?" kind of ridiculous bullshit.
Obviously companies will try to squeeze you where they can but the amount of dumb shit people do on their phone in the US is mind boggling. I'm surprised ATT is making any money with the grandfathered iPhone unlimited plans just milking many MANY gbs a month of data across their network
They seem to think that it's exactly the same as a cabled network (fibre / dsl) for maintenance and upgrades, no goddamn idea.
While I do agree with you that unlimited data needed to go away I think the big issue was how they removed it. They put up limits of around 1 or 2 GB at the same price as what people did pay for unlimited and acted like we should be grateful. They should have offered something reasonable for that price and not a slap in the face which is what it felt like. As someone who used very little data typically between 1 and 2 GB per month on unlimited the new plans became more expensive for a lot less service.
Yes I know many people fully utilized the unlimited plan that was a remnant from when speeds were slower but they hurt everyone that had an unlimited plan with such a drastic change and left a bad taste.
I'd much prefer no caps as opposed to faster internet. I'll even take really high caps over the craziness we have now.
If we labeled home broadband the same way as cellular broadband, we'd be calling it 9G or something. And it would mean just as little to the consumer. It makes it harder to compare speeds/carriers. Just call it by what it is, peak speeds you're allowed to pull on their network.
It also seems that 5G can be arbitrarily defined. Whatever Verizon wants to call 5G, they can. Marketing.
So when they selling off their FIOS division....
I imagine they are looking to target wireless internet as a replacement for cable/fiber/etc. I imagine the infrastructure is a good bit cheaper to service an area compared to running cable. And given people's solid hatred of cable companies, they might be able to make some serious inroads. Isn't that part of the reason they've stopped rolling out FIOS?
Now to seriously compete, they're going to have to seriously bump data allowances because I don't give two shits how fast your data is if I'm paying $100/month for never to no capacity.
Do a search on slashdot for "seems fast enough to me" for any article 5 years or older, and have a laugh.
While that is a totally fair point, it is also reasonable to ask when something really IS good enough...
The joke, of course, is "640K ought to be good enough for anyone"... which he claims he never said...
How about 640TB of RAM? Would that be good enough for anyone (personal use computer)?
There has to be some number where it becomes true
---
Car example:
My 2014 Ford Taurus has a 3.5L V6 engine that makes 290HP, it does zero to 60 "fast enough".
They make an SHO version with a Twin Turbo version of that engine that makes even more. It is nice, but not needed.
You could say "yea, but next year we're going to 500HP!"
Great... why do I need 500HP in that car? Answer: I don't... and no one else does either.
Oh sure, someone wants to have it so they can show off or do runs at a drag strip or something, but that is like 1/10 of 1% maybe.
I asked "what do I need the speed for?". Not "I want to brag about having it".
3G wasn't fast enough to watch 1080p video, it wasn't fast enough to upload 1080p videos that I took in a reasonable time.
4G is. I just had lunch with my son today, I shot a video of him on my iPhone 6 and sent it to multiple people. They had it within a minute.
That is "good enough". I can facetime in good quality, I can open web pages as fast as the browser can render them.
More speed is "nice", but it isn't needed. I'm asking, "what in the future will we NEED it for?"
It is an honest question.
i mean, it's not like they have broken any promises before.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Assuming that's a 175 GB monthly usage
$710 for 100GB data only plan (highest plan listed on verizon's site)
$1125 for 75GB overage @ $15/GB
$20 for device access
So your bill should be around $1,855/mo How much is your mortgage payment?
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Why yes it would be nice if any other company would would be willing to so much as TAKE my money years ago I was paying wildblue $79.99/mo for internet out at the house for 1.5mbps down 256 up (17GB down 5GB up). Unreliable and the 500ms ping makes a lot of things unusable. Then I moved to twin unlimited alltel aircards for $59.99/ea (total 119.98 pretax) roughly the same speed much more reliable and most things are still usable with a 150 ms ping.
Since then verizon bought alltel and i've dropped a 3g aircard.
Now I have Twin vzw 4g lte unlimited aircards and a 3g unlimited aircard for backup. This runs me about $189.97/mo ($196.57 after taxes and fees)
Is Anyone willing to run service out to my house for that price? Hell no. My only options at home remain cellular or satellite. And while most wouldn't call cellular reliable it still beats the shit out of a satlink for reliability. So until something else comes along ill just be glad verizon will still take my money for an old unlimited plan.
No I have no idea what the costs are compared to running a wired service but I do remember at&t http://tech.slashdot.org/story... Wanting to abandon their wired connections and go full wireless (from what I hear the margins are better.) So it must be cheaper and/or more profitable. Annnnd I remember verizon halting their fios rollout to spend more money on the more profitable wireless service http://tech.slashdot.org/story...
As for wireline providers in town (I don't live in town) I have the option of three:
Suddenlink has made no upgrades to their service in years their cable internet service maxes out at 15mbps (however their flyers say their speeds start at 50mbps)
At&t has upgraded their dsl service to a proprietary version of adsl2+ so you can't use any other modem but theirs speeds max out at 18mbps if you happen to live across the street from the hub.
The city has built a fiber network hoping to draw big industry afaik its still struggling but its speeds max out at 50mbps.
Full disclosure I supposedly could get 10mbps service from a local wisp for the low low cost of $15,000 for a tower so I could get the signal to the tower on the other side of the hill and then just $99.95/mo thereafter.
I don't think declining to provide wired service because more expensive wireless service is available and then complaining that wireless doesn't have as much bandwidth capacity is ok. But it's apparently an excellent business plan.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
Verizon is still using 4G LTE, which does not always qualify as true 4G spec.
-Turkey
Right around that amount.
What's amusing is that it would be cheaper to buy a second device than to pay the overages. Either load balance across both devices simultaneously or just watch the data consumption and switch over to the second device.
Across 3 unlimited lines I used an average of 270GB last month That's a bit higher than normal but it is worth noting that not one line used less than 100GB.
If I were to switch to a current plan and keep my current layout
$2,130 for 3 accounts with 100GB
$7,500 for 500GB overage
$60 for 3 devices
=
$9690 for last month
If I did as you suggested I would need
$6,390 for 9 accounts 100GB
$180 for 9 devices
=
$6570
Keep in mind the 3 unlimited lines only cost $2279.64/yr
Even a year of service for the whole account with all the limited phones is only $3911.52/yr
I like to think of it this way: I saved so much last month that at least the next year of service is effectively free even in the best case scenario. Well unless verizon has higher plans they don't offer on their website or the rates jump again.
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
VZW, like ATTW, plays games with their profitability by using lease agreements to shift liabilities between the wireless and wireline side of their business, because the regulated nature of the wireline side allows them to account for costs differently. There is a huge push to block regulators access to deployment numbers and revenues from "special access" facilities, which are what is used by the wireline carrier to provide backhaul for the towers; an FCC rule change allows them to report bogus numbers since roughly 2000.
So the backup generators they seem to put at every site don't require fuel or preventative maintenance?
They don't. And 5G is marketing hype. There's no such thing. LTE is called "long-term" for a reason.
If the federal government had not dropped helicopter money on Verizon to upgrade their fiber backhaul I would be more sympathetic.
I think a better analogy is a 500 HP engine with a one-gallon fuel tank and special fuel that costs $1000 a gallon.
LTE networks are useful for more than "consuming content". The reason these networks aren't used more widely in an infrastructure setting is that their reliability is poor and they are expensive currently, so you see custom wireless solutions a lot, which ironically are often cheaper than what the telco provides once you account for bandwidth charges. There's a huge untapped market that is very elastic to price. In the US the major players are protected by fences of regulation, so they aren't interested in aggressive expansion, which carries risk. So they sell this line that people don't really want or need fast wireless internet.
If 5G will allow more devices to work from the same tower at the same time, due to faster burst, then that would be a reasonable answer to my question.
It doesn't help me specifically, but if it allows far more people without congestion, then that does help me in the long run.
I just didn't see a need for it personally, but that answer makes sense.