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Surprising Support Among Americans For Purchasing Smart Guns (jhsph.edu)

Lucas123 writes: A new survey from Johns Hopkins revealed that 59% percent of Americans, if they were to buy a new handgun, are willing to purchase a smart gun. More surprisingly, the web-based survey of almost 4,000 people found that four in 10 gun owners and 56% of political conservatives would buy a smart gun. "The results of this study show that there is potentially a large commercial market for smart gun technology," said Julia Wolfson. "This has been one of the biggest arguments against smart guns, that people just don't want them. This research shows otherwise."

36 of 464 comments (clear)

  1. How smart? by magarity · · Score: 4, Funny

    How many people surveyed think "smart gun" is some kind of technology where you don't have to aim very carefully; just tell the gun where you want the shot to go. Or maybe a gun with WiFi or an 4K HD screen.

    1. Re:How smart? by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's even better than that. From TFA:

      Among the findings: Fifty-nine percent of all respondents said they would be willing to consider a childproof gun if they were to purchase a new weapon.

      Who would NOT be in favour of a "childproof" gun?

      The issue is when it comes down to the specific technology. Will the gun function when you need it to?

    2. Re:How smart? by tomhath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Perfect example of phrasing the question in order to get the desired response. All this survey tells me is that almost 2/3s of the respondents didn't understand the question.

    3. Re:How smart? by harrkev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who would NOT be in favour of a "childproof" gun?

      Ummm. Anybody sane? We already have things to make guns childproof. They are called "locks" and "safes." I keep mu firearms in a safe with a push-button lock. No batteries to wear out, and a simple design with little to go wrong.

      I am not against adding smart technology to firearms. But I am against requiring it. Simply stated, the problem is reliability. Sometimes people use a gun to defend themselves, which means that it HAS to work. Do you want to be defenseless because of a dead battery or a firmware issue?

      Personally, I will consider it a viable option when it is good enough for the FBI and police. If it is not reliable enough for them, it is not reliable enough for me.

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    4. Re:How smart? by Sowelu · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you use it for target shooting instead of self defense (I do), then I'm pretty sure it'll function when I "need" it to. If it doesn't, who cares, I guess I'm renting from the range today.

      Not every gunowner has self defense in mind.

    5. Re:How smart? by sycodon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyone who has ever cycled the slide on a semi auto can tell you that it's pretty much beyond a "child's" capability.

      A teen, yes, but some toddler or six year old, no. So when you talk "child proofing" you are talking the same thing as covers on the outlets, a fence around the pool and gates across the stairs.

      So, an empty chamber and storing above 5 feet high is about as child proof as you need for a semi.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    6. Re:How smart? by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Willing to buy" is also a lot different from "willing to tolerate it as the only option". Just like any other kind of product, people with guns may have more than one each meant for different purposes or even different people.

      I want the rifle used by Marines and the sidearm used by Marines.

      If those are "smart guns" then that's cool.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:How smart? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Who would NOT be in favour of a "childproof" gun?

      That's too easy:

      The company is called Keystone Sporting Arms, and they make .22 rifles called the "Crickett" and the "Chipmunk" that are meant for children as young as five years old. They became famous a few years ago when a five year old killed his two year old sister with what Keystone sells as "My First Gun". They are still proudly marketing their products to kindergartners.

      http://www.crickett.com/

      "Quality Firearms for America's Youth"

      I assume from your use of the letter "u" in the word "favour" that you are not American. This would explain why you might that there is a level below which the American gun industry would not sink.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:How smart? by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some other things I noticed.
      They checked between gun and non-gun owners, but didn't not the proportions, or attempt to determine, like with elections, 'likely gun purchasers'. As they noted, support dropped substantially with gun owners.

      Also, they used non-standard terminology and spoke in vague theoreticals - Sure, I'd consider buying a smart gun if they were available. I'd consider buying a self-driving car, if they were available. Neither are yet in a state where they can be commercial sale successes, much less mandated.

      Also, for smart guns the use case is currently too limited. For the cost of a smart gun I can buy a regular gun, and a gun safe large enough to hold it and numerous other firearms. Guns that work with gloves, IE RFID, are likely to still fire if I'm struggling with an attacker, and they have their hands on it(though this is rare). Fingerprint scanners are far too easy to foul.

      As a matter of course, I assume that if the criminal has any real amount of time with the firearm to work on it that he'll be able to either reprogram it for himself or disable the 'smart' system.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    9. Re:How smart? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I fail to see how this makes an argument in favor of smart guns. The situation on the range couldn't have been avoided by one, since the gun was deliberately placed in the child's hand loaded and ready to fire - and she was instructed to do just that.

    10. Re:How smart? by PvtVoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So how does the self-defense situation work in this scenario? A thug invades your house without notice and then what? Do you get the gun cabinet key out, take out the gun, load the gun only to find that the mugger has already knocked you in the head with his bat? Are you supposed to carry your gun on you at home at all times?

      The way "self-defense" works in this scenario is that your realize in the first place that the risk of your child being injured or killed by the loaded gun you leave lying around is far higher than the risk that a "thug invades your house", and you make the rational decision that overall risk reduction takes priority over a thoughtless, brain-stem response to a hypothetical fear.

  2. Why a surprise? by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Willingness to buy a smartgun does not equate to support of legislation to require only smartguns. That is the primary fallacy of the submitter.

    1. Re:Why a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I bet it's one of those surveys where the wording influences the results:

      Q: Will you use a "smart gun" that will fire when you want it to, with 100% reliability, and not fire at any other time? A: Yes!

      Q: Will you use a "smart gun" that may not fire when you need it to, that is easily bypass-able after being stolen, and is more expensive and less reliable? A: Hell no.

    2. Re:Why a surprise? by Ichijo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nice straw man fallacy!

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    3. Re: Why a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For a lot of people who believe the second amendment is intended to allow people to protect themselves specifically from tyrannical government, yes, they do want that ability.

    4. Re:Why a surprise? by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Where did the submitter say that it should be required by law?

      There are state legislatures that have already passed laws saying that as soon as such guns are available for retail sale anywhere, only such guns will be allowed to be sold going forward. It doesn't matter whether someone here mentioned such a thing, it's part of the landscape now, and it's one of the main reasons people are opposing this technology. Because idiots have already gone past the "saying" part, and have passed laws requiring exactly this.

      If this is news to you, then you're out of touch with the some of the central issues involved.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    5. Re:Why a surprise? by Mr.+Shotgun · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nice straw man fallacy!

      The straw man argument was from TFA: Julia Wolfson. "This has been one of the biggest arguments against smart guns, that people just don't want them. This research shows otherwise." No, the biggest argument was concerning the trigger laws that New Jersey and other areas set up mandating the smart gun technology on all firearms after it became available anywhere. Lawrence Keane, of the National Sport Shooting Foundation, said "If people think there's a market for these products, then the market should work," in other words absent these laws the gun industry would endorse the further development of smart gun technology.

      Incidentally during the whole fight back in 2014 about smart gun technology one was reviewed. They found it prone to misfire and slow to start up among other things. Obviously not a proven technology as of yet.

      --
      Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the (supposed) good of its victims may be the most oppressive
    6. Re:Why a surprise? by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the problem is a stupid state law mandating the use of a technology that doesn't even exist

      But it DOES exist. It's just not very good. But that hasn't stopped manufacturers from offering these guns. Dealers who've considered taking them on have been loudly castigated by people throughout the industry and by all sorts of gun owners/buyers so that they don't set the precedent that will tip those laws into taking effect.

      the obvious solution is to advocate for a moratorium or repeal of that law

      The NRA (you know, that evil organization that wants to kill people) has been working very hard to that end. But liberal legislatures find more virtue in being seen opposing that camp that being seen turning a bad law into a more rational one. No progress in three years so far despite great efforts.

      The solution is not to insist that the technology never be developed just because it's easier than actually getting the law reversed.

      As we wait for some progress in undoing those very bad laws (this could take years), the only option is to oppose the selling of these weapons on the consumer/retail market.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  3. Propaganda much? by pecosdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This isn't a technology site anymore. It's a pro-central power mouthpiece and disseminator of propaganda.

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    1. Re: Propaganda much? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Funny

      The slash mark slants to the right.

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    2. Re:Propaganda much? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Funny

      As in, it's not a libertarian circle jerk?

  4. what happens... by executioner · · Score: 4, Insightful
    when the batteries run out of juice and you need to use the "smart gun".

    there may be support to purchase, not to mandate that as the only type of gun. and that support will last until the first time it fails to function. (which might also be the last time it is needed as well)

    --
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  5. Survey methodology? by ageoffri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's see some information on how they did a "web-based survey". I really have a hard time believing the numbers they are talking about. I don't know of a single firearm enthusiast who would buy a smart gun as more then a novelty item.

    As far as I'm concerned, when Feinstein's bodyguards are willing to only carry smart guns, then the technology is mature enough for use.

    --
    -- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
    1. Re:Survey methodology? by jsrjsr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I find it interesting that none of the articles I can find even discuss the methodology or the questions.

      If I were asked if I would purchase a smart gun that was less reliable, only available in .22 Long Rifle and cost two or three times what a dumb gun cost, my answer would be NO.

      If I were asked if I would consider purchasing a smart gun that was proven reliable, available in several common cartridges (9mm, .45ACP, etc) and cost just a bit more, my answer would be YES.

      How you word the questions is a big part of the answers you get. BTW, the first question reflects where the technology for smart guns is today.

  6. Re:It's all in the execution by zeugma-amp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'll think about it when the police and secret service are forced to use nothing but these so-called "smart" guns. You can bet your ass that they'll be exempted from any such requirement.

    --
    This is an ex-parrot!
  7. I don't believe this propaganda for one second by JonTurner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sorry, but I don't believe this for one moment.

    A firearm must, above all things, be reliable. There is no indication whatsoever that the so-called "smart" features (whatever that is) have been developed to anything even close to acceptable real-world performance. Meaning "I pull trigger, gun goes bang every time." I've seen crappy fingerprint recognizing prototypes, some that require an associated bracelet or ring (works great until the battery dies...), GPS-enabled (no signal? stinks for you).

    The police won't carry it.
    The military doesn't want it.
    Neither does the general public.

    Of course it's a sample size of only a few but the gun owners I know (including myself) with whom I have discussed this very topic are agreed -- none of us would ever, EVER own a firearm complicated with failure points (aka "electronics"), which, I will add, could easily be jammed.

    I say the study is propaganda meant to sway the easily influenced public herd, or encourage some politicians with reading comprehension issues to ignore the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution they are sworn to uphold.

    1. Re:I don't believe this propaganda for one second by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 3, Interesting

      About RFID and GPS: Do you think a criminal would hesitate for even a second to carry a jamming device if he knew the homeowner/cop had this tech?

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
  8. Re:It's all in the execution by blue9steel · · Score: 3, Funny

    Exactly. When it's reliable enough for the Marines then I'm interested. As a former Marine I can attest that those guys can break anything.

  9. Answer to a question not asked by Anaxagoras · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As an avid gun enthusiast I think smart guns are an awful idea and so does everyone i know who shoots. This is /. so I'll start with the technological reasons first.

    There are two types of smart gun technology out there.
    1) Fingerprint: yeah ok, give me a fingerprint reader that works every time and i'll consider it. Are my hands sweaty? Am I nervous shaking? Covered in dirt? Mud? Sweat? How about Blood? It's winter I"m wearing gloves now what? Will it still work in all those conditions and more?
    2.) RFID: this is a wireless signal. Wireless signals can be jammed. If cops/military start carrying smart guns with rfid we'll see this happen no doubt in my mind. Even if they don't people will still figure out how they work and hack them for fun.

    But they keep your guns from being used when their stolen. Sure if hackers never exploit the technology, no one figures out how to disable/remove it, and if no one ever posts howtos on youtube... that will never happen...right?

    When i carry my gun i need to know it will work every time because if i ever have to use it(very unlikely) it's because i feel my life or someone else's life is depending on it. Even then, I don't know it will work every time. Every now and again you can get a bad/light primer strike not igniting the round, a jam, a misfeed, a broken part like an extractor or mainspring, the list goes on. Guns mostly work all the time, the failure rate is very low, and they're mostly all built on technology that's largely unchanged for over a hundred years for a good reason, it's reliable and works. If you are carrying a gun for self protection, duty, hunting or any other lawful purpose you want it to go bang every single fucking time. Show me a technology that cant be exploited, disabled, and will have zero chance of negatively affecting reliability and then we'll talk. Until then get the hell off my lawn. #'MURICA

  10. And a pony, and every day to be my birthday by swb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...and a billion dollars, and a lot of other stuff, too.

    I think even die-hard gun owners wouldn't turn down their favorite gun done smart gun style, provided it was the perfect smart gun that only let the people they wanted shoot at the things they wanted shot and worked right every time.

    But back in the real world, I can't have a pony, every day isn't my birthday and nobody's going to give me a billion dollars.

    And no smart gun will work that way either. They will all have futzy technology that will make them not shoot when they're supposed to, or worse, shoot when they're supposedly not supposed to.

  11. Re:It's all in the execution by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they run with finger on trigger, sweep friendlies with aim,etc.

    So, just like the cops then

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. Re:It's all in the execution by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Cops are taught not to do that though. The thing I am saddened about cops is their terrible aim, we used to let the PD of pop. 180,000 town use our club's gun range a few days a month, they would shoot at half the 50 foot range's distance, and still they were spraying ammo in three foot groups under stress of timed fire and reload scenario. disgusting. the worst of us club members could at least keep it on standard 10.5x12" bullseye paper at 50 foot

  13. Re:This is completely irrelevant by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because gun owners are, by and large, single issue voters. Politically you can do anything you please to then so long as you don't touch their guns.

    That kind of statement, which is far from reality, is rooted in the inability to understand that a very large number of thoughtful, educated, and engaged citizens are against gun control. It makes those that are for it feel better about themselves, I suppose.

  14. Remote disabling by drnb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Its not just a reliability issue. One of the reasons the anti-gun folks are interested in smart guns and smart gun research is that one of those research topics is how to remotely disable a smart gun. Even so the legitimate user can not operate it. Its not even that hard to imagine the anti-gun crowd eventually wanting the default state of a smart gun to be disabled, only allowing it to enable when at a licensed gun range.

  15. Re: Governmentally-mandated backdoored gun by Grendol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The survey was performed by the New Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Michael Bloomberg is notorious for building organizations to support his anti firearm viewpoints. They will target populations with their poll to get the desired result. I don't trust the poll results because I don't trust the motives of Bloomberg.

  16. Actually, yes, there is evidence ... by drnb · · Score: 4, Informative

    Can you provide ANY evidence of this ? Any ...

    Mandatory smart guns.
    "{New Jersey] Assembly Bill No. 700, is a law that makes the sale of handguns "illegal" unless it is a smart gun that "can only be fired by an authorized or recognized user" and would take effect three years after the technology is available for retail purposes."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Remote Disabling.
    "TriggerSmart has also patented and developed Wide Area Control ( WAC) where weapons can be remotely enabled and disabled using various wireless protocols. Safe zones can be created around schools and airports so that only authorised guns can operate in the designated area. Alternatively, when authorized guns leave the authorised area they can be tracked and disabled outside the safe zone."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Political willingness to confiscate legally registered firearms.
    California’s Assault Weapons ban of 1989 allowed those who owned covered firearms the opportunity to register those firearms and keep them. Registration involved fingerprinting and background checks. This ban also outlawed use of these firearms for hunting, and target shooting in many formerly legal venues. California Bill 2013 AB 174 would revoke these registrations and render these firearms illegal. AB 174 would force current owners to render their formerly legal and registered firearms inoperable, surrender them or remove them from California.
    "Existing law prohibits the possession of various weapons. Under existing law, certain of these bans exempted from their scope weapons that were possessed prior to the ban, if prescribed conditions met, are authorized. This bill would declare the intent of the Legislature to subsequently amend this bill to include provisions that would end all of those exemptions."
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/...

    Do you really think it much of a leap for politicians who would revoke registrations for fingerprinted and background checked owners, registration for rifles that were arbitrarily limited in terms of where they could be used (no hunting, only certain shooting ranges/sites), ... to think smart guns should be default disabled until entering approved firing ranges?